My wife and her female friend (or more than friend?)

[nebbish]

my wife has a female friend.

 

they are very close. they snuggle on the couch when they are watching tv together. or sit very close together, touching, sometimes my wife has her legs in her friend's lap. sometimes they sleep together in front of the tv, with my wife holding her friend as they have stretched out on the couch together.

 

they travel together on my wife's business trips (all but two in the last couple of years and my wife travels with some frequency), and when they do, they sleep in the same bed. when i travel for my business her friend sleeps here and she and my wife share the same bed in the master bedroom.

 

my wife has given her a silver ring that she wears on the ring finger of her left hand.

 

when my wife spends the night at her friend's house they sleep in the master bedroom together (same bed).

 

when they sleep together they close the door. at the friends house they lock the bedroom door.

 

my wife has described her friend as a "snuggler" in bed.

 

her friend puts up with all the verbal and emotional abuse that used to be (and sometimes still is) dumped on me. the friend has even been the victim of an assault by my wife on a couple of occasions after binge drinking (wife tried to get physical with me once-- i can deal with the physical abuse-- or actually stop it and appropriately defend myself)-- but the emoitonal/verbal stuff i'm less successful at)

 

assume the foregoing statements are verifiably true.

 

and i'm sitting here with a bottle of jim beam wondering, is this all natural friendship stuff?

 

am i paranoid?

 

oh yeah, it's futile to try to communicate with my wife a version of reality different than the one she believes ought to be.

[RayKay]

and i'm sitting here with a bottle of jim beam wondering, is this all natural friendship stuff?

 

 

My question is: Why are you tolerating all of this?

 

Same question I have!

 

Nebbish - no this is not "normal". I have friends too and I would NEVER dream of sleeping in same bed as them while on trips or for sleepovers. And I certainly would not be bringing them on business trips with me! I have slept in same bed as female friends/sister ON occasion but certainly NO snuggling involved in that!

 

I cannot even believe you do "put up" with this as a matter of fact. It is not okay that YOUR wife sleeps (whether anything goes on or not) with another man/woman even once or twice, never mind on a regular, consistent basis.

 

She sounds selfish, abusive and yes she does have MANY problems. ON top of that, she does not respect you, OR this other person either. You say she is abusive and while now she verbally abuses the other person, her sleeping with another person and such is STILL emotional abuse towards you. Don't think she does not know what she is doing...she is very aware and probably is somewhat proud of it too.

 

Stop being a doormart. Either talk to her and see if she is willing to accept her responsibility for this marriage and behaviour and get help and change, or its time for you to take a stand and walk. I don't "promote divorce" except in certain circumstances - abuse and emotional/physical cheating both being in there - which are both cases for you.

 

Added: Missed first part where you said it was woman (was that in the original post that was on other thread...still all what I said applies. I do not think this is alright in the least bit. Something is going on.

[Beec]

I think RayKay missed something, in that your wife is sleeping with another woman, not a man, but she is sleeping with someone else.

 

And while I don't really know these things, it sounds awful like this other woman is wearing a wedding band. Wonder who she is married to?

 

And yes, RayKay is right, why are you tolerating it?

 

I think in your position, I would do what a friend of mine did, when he left his wife. He discussed it with a divorce lawyer, then packed his things and moved out when she was on a business trip.

 

As a side note, it seems you have let your wife treat you as a door mat. Let anyone do this for a while, and they will expect that they can walk all over you whenever they want. Not a good position to be in.

[RayKay]

Oops, I did miss that! Not sure it was on the "original" post (not in the title anyway) though that was up in the other thread that this was added onto.

 

But even so, it is STILL not right. It is normal for women to be close when they are longtime friends, but there is something way beyond friendship here in my opinion!

[Hope75]

Actually, his wife's "friend' is a female, another woman.

 

But NO, this is still not normal behaviour. I have some very close girlfriends and I will definitely hug them when they need one and vice versa, but what your wife is doing is creepy, and yes, it does sound as though she is having an affair.

 

My suggestion to you , since you feel as though your wife won't listen to you, is to suggest a marriage counselor, someone objective who can mediate and who can tell your wife that she/he doesn't think this is normal friend behaviour, and your wife can hear it from someone other than you, who can't help but feel biased.

 

If she won't go for it, well if I were you I wouldn't want to continue in a marriage where my significant other is most likely being unfaithful.

[arwen]

Hey all,

 

To overcome confusion, as this posting was a bit off-topic for the topic where it was posted in, a separate topic was created for this member. This way she can continue with her attempt to define cheating 8) and nebbish can get answers to his particular situation.

 

Nothing was changed in his posting, only a title was applied based on the content.

 

Ilse.

[RayKay]

Actually, his wife's "friend' is a female, another woman.

 

Yes, that has been cleared up but as I said whatever I said STILL applies to whether friend is male or female.

 

This post was originally within another topic so there was no title with "female friend" and I missed the first part in his post.

 

Everything still applies.

[DragonGirl724]

i agree with everyone here....im sure this is breaking your heart. i sleep in the same bed as my friends, both male & female & sometimes simple spooning action goes on but that is it!! its completely innocent. that i feel is the limit to anything 'normal & friendly'...everything boyond that is hormonal. id confront her about this. & if she is indeed cheating id rid myself of deceitful people like her. no take backs either!

 

-DG724

[nebbish]

first of all thanks for all your replies.

 

second, i left out certain things in my original post because i wanted to put before you the basic facts: i wanted to try, insofar as i could be, to present to you objective, and as i said, verifiable facts, and see what your views on the subject were, without trying to prejudice or otherwise influence your views. i didn't want to confuse things or offer my own analysis. because maybe my take on it was wrong and when you are close to or involved in a situaiton your perspective is warped, and what i need is unwarped perspective. so if i erred, or rude, i apologize, but that is the reason for it.

 

third, i have been a doormat for years (another whole long story) and as my name suggests, a nebbish. that is changing in a pretty radically. i think you all would be pleased. but there are no easy solutions. for example, we have two wonderful children. i am trying to develop a "least worst" scenario.

 

fourth, again, thanks for your input. i appreciate all your time and thought.

[DragonGirl724]

well appreciate you clearing up any possible confusions but understand that we give unbiased opinions here...well most of us at least. its good youre lookin at the facts of it all & acknowledging whats upsetting you & focusing on getting some kind of help with it. you have to be open with her, explain how this makes you feel. clear up any misunderstandings...if any, & go forth from there. be proud of your accomplishments on working on your own self esteem & not allowing yourself to be a doormat anymore. now youre faced w/ another dilemma in your marriage & you have to be upfront with her on all of this asap.

 

goodluck.

 

-DG724

[Beec]

Well, this situation has taken sometime to develop. You want it to change. That's great. But into what? Where do you want to be with your wife and kids in the next year? Figure that out, and then figure out how to get there, which means figuring out how to get your wife want to get there or close to there.

[mt_joy]

Tell your wife that you want this situation to change. It's obvious this other woman is more than a friend. Friends just don't do this. I hug my friends and once I had to share a bed with one, but what she's doing is not very normal. Stop being a doormat and tell her you won't put up with it anymore.

[cooldude1234]

Hey,

 

I'm sure this is pretty painful for you.

 

I would do what the other posters suggested and definitely look into a marriage councelor. Try to talk to her in a non-aggressive manner(i.e. don't use "you always.") Instead use non-aggressive language like "I feel."

 

I can understand you not wanting to get a divorce seeing how you have kids. However, if she refuses to listen or work toward change, divorce might be something to start thinking about. In this case, you will definatelty have to 'clean up your act,' if you want your kids.

 

I know it's a lot to think about, but I hope I helped a little.

[nebbish]

if it were with a guy the whole dynamic would be different. but i don't know how women who are friends behave together as opposed to -- well, something else.

[ComputerGuy]

if it were with a guy the whole dynamic would be different. but i don't know how women who are friends behave together as opposed to -- well, something else.

 

She's fooling around with a woman. It's just as bad as if she were fooling around with a guy.

 

OK, stop looking at this from the point of view of it's a woman shes sleeping with, and start looking at it as another person shes sleeping with.

[June4life]

I dont think that's normal either... I know for a fact I'm definitely not like that with my friends....

[Beec]

I think I would tell you to first assume she is having an affair with this woman, and then ask if you feel that it is cheating? You seem to, so isn't it? What is the difference?

 

I might be able to understand, how some would view this as not cheating, but I think in those cases, it would have to be open. If she doesn't admit it, I think it is cheating.

[nebbish]

i don't want to assume she is involved-- which of course is why i posted asking advice. but i start with these basic facts and i have a hard time drawing a different conclusion.

 

and maybe i'm in massive denial about the whole thing. and maybe she is in denial about her own identity.

 

last spring in a different context she denied being involved. the behavior i have outlined in my first post, however, was the same.

 

and i know her friend and i like her friend. and yet the two of them together.... but there it is.

 

and there are other dynamics so in fairness you're not getting the full texture of our soap opera but rather than discuss and try to explain nuances, i just wanted to discuss a few basic and verifiable things. things i could prove if i had to.

 

if it were a guy, i would apply pottery barn rules.

[Esprit]

I'm going to have to disagree with alot of you...

I wouldn't say that this behavior is nearly as abnormal as everyone's making it sound. Where I live, it's not seen as weird if friends are really close and comfortable touching eachother. Sleeping in the same bed as a friend ---even with cuddling--- what's the problem? I personally see that as normal.

 

The fact that this is bothering you, though, means that you should probably talk to her about it. It's not really fair to you if they're locking doors and such without you knowing what's going on.

 

But either way...there is way too much homophobia in this world

[nebbish]

i don't know if there is anything homo enough to be phobic about

 

i want her to be happy. but for any number of reasons, some which might originate with me some with her, she is not happy. if she and her friend have something going on and it makes her happy, while i have a short term problem with it (for obvious reasons), long term there are many ways to manage it many healthy ways to manage it.

 

if there is something going on it would just be better for them to run off together. but life is never that simple, is it?

[nebbish]

the obvious reasons being the infidelity related ones, not who she is involved with. had to clarify in case anyone misunderstood.

[HurtinKS]

My wife of seven years recently gained a friend from the gym, thought it was great. Wife told me her friend’s sister is a lesbian, and then strange things started happening, like her leaving the house at 10PM to see her friend and not returning before the following morning and this happened on two occasions. Then her friend sent her this e-greeting card, which to me spells out everything crystal clear that she is having a lesbian affair. The card stated, "cant wait to hold you in my arms! "cuddling" with you has become my favorit thing to do! Miss you so much!

 

> Dear sylvette ,

>

> Dorrene has sent you an ecard from link removed.

>

> Send free ecards from link removed with your choice of colors, words and music.

>

>

 

[treefrogkate]

While the cuddling doesn't sound that unusual (I've had my female friends sit with their legs on top of mine while watching tv before, and there was absolutely nothing untoward going on), the ring is really what clinches the deal for me. It really sounds like it's intended to represent a wedding band.

 

That and the locking the bedroom door. Why would there be any reason to lock the door if there's only sleeping and cuddling going on?

 

The only way you're going to know for sure is to ask her.

 

You say 704831]if she and her friend have something going on and it makes her happy, while i have a short term problem with it (for obvious reasons), long term there are many ways to manage it many healthy ways to manage it.

I worry that you are considering settling for something you are uncomfortable with just to stay with her. If you are ok with her having a side relationship with the woman as long as you know about it, that's one thing. But if you truly are not ok with being the "third wheel", so to speak, you should not put yourself through that pain.

 

One thing I wonder... a lot of people, for whatever reason, don't consider having a lesbian relationship outside of the main relationship cheating, simply because it's not with someone of the opposite sex. Unless you have explicitly agreed "We are a monogamous couple... except she can sleep with women", then it's cheating. If she's hiding it from you, then it's cheating.

[JadedStar]

My wife of seven years recently gained a friend from the gym, thought it was great. Wife told me her friend’s sister is a lesbian, and then strange things started happening, like her leaving the house at 10PM to see her friend and not returning before the following morning and this happened on two occasions. Then her friend sent her this e-greeting card, which to me spells out everything crystal clear that she is having a lesbian affair. The card stated, "cant wait to hold you in my arms! "cuddling" with you has become my favorit thing to do! Miss you so much!

 

> Dear sylvette ,

>

> Dorrene [ . com ] has sent you an ecard from link removed.

>

> Send free ecards from link removed with your choice of colors, words and music.

>

>

 

 

I think you are totally right. Her mentioning the "lesbian sister" was also a clue. Normally this wouldn't hold much weight but with everything else you have said, it does.

 

I had a friend who would always mention her friends "lesbian friends" every chance she could get. I thought it seemed odd and almost like she wanted to talk about it a little "too much".

 

My gut feel was right. She left her b/f for that female friend about two months later.

 

A dead give away in relatinoshiops many times is the partner embarking on an affair or developing feelings can't help but talk about the situation or the person. They unknowingly give themselves away almost everytime. In this case she transferred it as in saying lesbian "sister" but there probably was not a sister at all, and if there was, it was surely the friend who was also lesbian.