Ten Facts

[Hermes]

Ten Facts

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"In a recent survey of single American men and women, 60% of men and 53% of women admitted to “mate poaching,” trying to woo an individual away from a committed relationship to begin a relationship with them instead. Mate poaching is also common in 30 other cultures."

[Fudgie]

Yes, this is a real thing. However, I think it's "acceptable" in many cultures for many people to mate poach unmarried people. In some people's eyes, if a relationship does not involve engagement or marriage, then it's fair game. I disagree with this but many do not. If they don't see a ring, they don't care.

[TMifune]

I agree with a lot of what you're writing here, but you haven't quite hit the nail that I see sticking out.

 

When women say "All the good ones are taken" it's not because there aren't any good decent single guys. It's because they have high expectations in addition to a lack of real ability to vet someone as a "good guy". So they change the definition. Someone who's taken is a "good guy" because they assume that the other woman has accurately and successfully vetted this guy and he's proved out his goodness. What they fail to recognize is that they're simply missing out on the "good guys" because they're afraid to take the risk of figuring out who's a good guy and who's not. That's not to mention that they're also probably subconsciously choosing men without long-term potential.

[TMifune]

Yes, this is a real thing. However, I think it's "acceptable" in many cultures for many people to mate poach unmarried people. In some people's eyes, if a relationship does not involve engagement or marriage, then it's fair game. I disagree with this but many do not. If they don't see a ring, they don't care.

 

So there are PUA guys out there who talk like pretty much every woman can be seduced regardless of her marital / relationship status. Maybe they can, maybe they can't, but I don't understand why anyone thinks that the person they've "poached" away from someone else is going to be more loyal or more committed to them than they were to their previous relationship. Basically the only thing that keeps these people in relationships is inertia....all it takes is a little push and they roll right into someone else's arms.

[Hermes]

TM. I fully agree with your post.

 

"It's because they have high expectations in addition to a lack of real ability to vet someone as a "good guy". So they change the definition."

 

Only thing I would change in that sentence is "unrealistic expectations", fuelled, unfortunately, by silly media stuff.

[Fudgie]

So there are PUA guys out there who talk like pretty much every woman can be seduced regardless of her marital / relationship status. Maybe they can, maybe they can't, but I don't understand why anyone thinks that the person they've "poached" away from someone else is going to be more loyal or more committed to them than they were to their previous relationship. Basically the only thing that keeps these people in relationships is inertia....all it takes is a little push and they roll right into someone else's arms.

 

I don't get it either. I don't think they would be more loyal and committed. Past behavior is a good indicator of future behavior. I don't understand why anyone would want to marry someone who cheated on their spouses with that person. Makes no sense to me.

[Hermes]

A bit tongue in cheek I think, but here goes.

 

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Lots of places getting a crack of the whip in this article (no pun intended!) Lol.

[TMifune]

Hackers from Anonymous are threatening to release the identities and information of some 37 Million users if the site (AshleyMadison) doesn't voluntarily shut itself down.

 

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[Hermes]

One closes down, another or others spring up. Oh, the delights of this technologically advanced age.

[Blue Spiral]

So there are PUA guys out there who talk like pretty much every woman can be seduced regardless of her marital / relationship status. Maybe they can, maybe they can't, but I don't understand why anyone thinks that the person they've "poached" away from someone else is going to be more loyal or more committed to them than they were to their previous relationship.

 

My guess is that they don't care much about monogamy/long-term commitment in the first place. Speaking strictly hypothetically, of course...

[jesus83]

I've never met one of these PUA guys. I get the feeling they're mostly socially awkward guys who don't have much of a social circle.

 

When I was 21 I met a girl who left her guy to be with me. She claimed she wasn't happy though. She ended up leaving me after 2 months, but there were some reasons behind it.

[Man with Dog]

I don't get it either. I don't think they would be more loyal and committed. Past behavior is a good indicator of future behavior. I don't understand why anyone would want to marry someone who cheated on their spouses with that person. Makes no sense to me.

 

There are cases where poached partners stay long term. Sometimes it is the person in the "stable" relationship that does the poaching.

[TMifune]

There are cases where poached partners stay long term. Sometimes it is the person in the "stable" relationship that does the poaching.

 

I think sometimes when someone gets "poached" they go through almost Herculean efforts to make the new relationship work. Because somehow in their mind if the new relationship "works" it justifies the way the left the old relationship. It's okay how hurtful they were to someone they "cared about" because the new person is "the love of their life". But it's BS rationalization. Ends justify the means and all that.

[TMifune]

My guess is that they don't care much about monogamy/long-term commitment in the first place. Speaking strictly hypothetically, of course...

 

That or they don't realize that everyone makes choices and they think that monogamy just sorta "happens" absent a choice. Like when you meet the "right" person you're just all of the sudden monogamous and so are they.

[Hermes]

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Excerpt:

 

"his partner MUST acknowledge that it was their choice and their choice alone to have an affair, and that nothing, including a lack of sex or disconnection from their partner, justifies their betrayal. This partner can expect to be in for some rough times ahead. A betrayed partner will most likely want details; many details, ALL details, and be terrified of new information being discovered, leaving them in a locked place of terror, anger, and hurt. I believe that it is best to honor their request for information as it is the first step to rebuilding trust. They will also tend to question all aspects of what they believed to be true for the relationship, looking back over time with a view now clouded by the idea that what they believed to be truth in one area of their relationship was not truth, and so surely there are other areas in which similarly they were living a lie. Perhaps that even the whole relationship and who their partner presented themselves as being is a lie."

[Blue Spiral]

That or they don't realize that everyone makes choices and they think that monogamy just sorta "happens" absent a choice. Like when you meet the "right" person you're just all of the sudden monogamous and so are they.

 

I'm sure that's true for some people, but not PUAs. A PUA does a ton of research and puts in a ton of effort in order to get laid. (Which is why I'm not one; I'm extremely lazy when it comes to women.) In the process, they learn that relationships are even more complicated and demanding. I've read blogs that deal with relationship game and marriage game, and it's basically a 24/7 psychological war. So, for those that get into relationships, I'd say that they understand it doesn't just "happen".

 

That said, you're right about monogamy: it definitely doesn't happen naturally. People have to force themselves to do it. I've never really understood why they do that, but...

[TMifune]

I'm sure that's true for some people, but not PUAs. A PUA does a ton of research and puts in a ton of effort in order to get laid. (Which is why I'm not one; I'm extremely lazy when it comes to women.) In the process, they learn that relationships are even more complicated and demanding. I've read blogs that deal with relationship game and marriage game, and it's basically a 24/7 psychological war. So, for those that get into relationships, I'd say that they understand it doesn't just "happen".

 

That said, you're right about monogamy: it definitely doesn't happen naturally. People have to force themselves to do it. I've never really understood why they do that, but...

 

I completely get where you're coming from. I've probably read some of the same stuff and I sit back and say "Why the heck would I want to be in a long term relationship with someone that I have to constantly manipulate in order to get them to stay with me?"

[Lucia Amman]

I know a view couples who started with being poached. I know one couple were quite young when the other one was still in a relationship. They worked together and they started kissing first at a business party (classic). The one who was still in relationship ended the relationship pretty fast after that first kiss and the couple eventually got married and have a dream relationship ever since.

 

Although I don't believe in monogamy and yes the partner that cheated once might cheat again, even after years and years of happy married life, I do believe they will never ever separate and they made the best choice ever to be together. Those that make it ok what one of them did to the former partner? I guess not totally. Although if it happened to me I wouldn't be bothered by it after so many years.

[Hermes]

More on same:

 

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Stating the obvious:

 

"Cheating is never a sign of a healthy relationship after all.

 

And if you can’t fix it, you’ll do the honorable thing — leave the relationship first. Before cheating."

 

From Dr. John Grohol

 

on

 

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[Blue Spiral]

I completely get where you're coming from. I've probably read some of the same stuff and I sit back and say "Why the heck would I want to be in a long term relationship with someone that I have to constantly manipulate in order to get them to stay with me?"

 

My problem is that I think all relationships are like that. I don't approve of PUA tactics, but I do think it's probably the only way that a relationship will really work for a man that doesn't have certain advantages. I obviously have very limited relationship experience, but, I think that if a man isn't constantly on-edge, trying to be "confident" and "assertive" and all that crap, the woman will quickly lose her attraction to him. Whenever I had exhibited weakness or had a problem that I didn't know how to deal with, my girlfriend would just act completely disgusted and/or confused. Women think that men are supposed to solve problems, not create them, and if we forget our "gender role" for a split-second, they stop being sexually attracted.

[Lucia Amman]

Blue spiral, I think you just haven't met the right women yet. I'm ok with men showing their weakness or having a problem or whatever reason he isn't feeling 'strong' but rather 'sensitive' instead. Why would that disgust me? Or why would I find him sexual unattractive after he exposed his sensitive side?

 

I hate to gender qualify the being sensitive as being feminine. Or the opposite for being confident and assertive as being masculine. And thereby I think I am totally not disgusted if my boyfriend or partner shows any lack of confidence. You really just need to find the right girl.

 

I think my relationship works perfect. Btw and we don't manipulate each other at all to 'stay' together in this. We choose to stay in this relationship every day, yes. And we both work on it to keep it interesting and pleasant for one another. But it's a choice. And not one that is manipulated. I've experienced that as well and it doesn't end well...

[Hermes]

More here:

 

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Excerpt:

 

"Research consistently shows that 2 to 3% of all children are the product of infidelity (see Anderson). And most of these children are unknowingly raised by men who are not their biological fathers. DNA testing is finally making it easy for people to check the paternity of their children"

[Unreasonable]

I really get annoyed when women say, " That B***H* stole my man". No, she didn't. He just chose to cheat on/leave you. You just can't admit that it was his CHOICE and that he WANTED to do that. No one forced him. (same applies to men)

 

Yeah, but don't you think it's possible, since women are conditioned to be regularly approached by men from their teens (and therefore recognize all the "types"), that on the rare, rare occasion when it goes the other way, that a man might not be as conditioned to rejecting "player" women out of hand?

[BigKK]

When you're single and in a bar...rolling in with your wing girls is as important as remembering to put on pants before you leave.

 

Everyone does it, and it still carries some weight. It's a strange phenomenon.

 

I think you're onto something Paris...it's the herding mentality. "Well if she thinks he's great...she seems pretty normal and OK, so he must be great."

 

I'm sure everyone's experienced this... now that I'm taken...girls are more apt to flirt, smile, it's like they're coming out of the wood works. I've even had girls make propositions while I'm out with my girlfriend and she steps away for a minute.

 

Where are the poachers when you're single? (obviously not chasing the single one since there is nothing to poach)