ShySoul Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Thing is, when your dealing with humans you are dealing with a much much more intelligent animal who is capable of greater things, including being better then these games. Sure, if your going to a bar you'll find people who exhibit those characteristics, but a bar isn't really somewhere where you are going to find the more intelligent or mature crowd. I say its frustrating because there's no point to it. The idea of having to be the Alpha Male or that women should be flicking there hair and batting their eyes is old fashioned and should be forgotten. It shouldn't be looked at as people trying to "appear" to be having a good time or that it is all a game to attract attention from others. If people are enjoying themselves, it will show. This isn't part of some psycological experiment and people aren't just animals. Just because someone appears to be enjoying themselves doesn't mean they are. They may be deeply depressed inside and are trying to forget their problems and do what they think they are suppose to be doing. For me, I'd whether pay attention to those who don't demonstrate those "attention getting qualities." They usually have more to say and are more interesting, their just not comfortable exposing themselves to the whole group. I don't manipulate things or nudge it in my direction. I'm nice, honest, and straightforward. If I say something that could even remotely be seen as teasing, it has nothing to do with trying to get them to like me. It's all about the other person and making them smile. And why should you adapt to other people? Shouldn't we just be who we are and let the person like us for us. If they don't that's not my fault and I shouldn't have to change just to fit in. No, its not possible to be a nice guy and a jerk. By definiton those two are opposites. If you are a true nice guy then you wouldn't dream of acting like a jerk. You can be intriguing and still be yourself, but not the way your making out. If you really are intriguing to someone, you shouldn't feel the need to treat things like a game. That implies deception or holding back. Be yourself and let what happens happens. If you are really intriguing, it will show through without you needing to resort to attention getting tactics. And who you are deep down should reflect in your outer persona. They shouldn't be separate things that come out at different times, they are linked together. Maybe I'm strange but I've always preferred to have a "what you see is what you get" attitude. As for waiting for the one, you can have something to compare it against without meeting as many as many people as possible. I haven't had to meet lots of people and date to know what I actually want. I've known that from the time I first every thought about love.I think that deep down, everyone knows what they are looking for. I'll sit back and wait for the person of my dreams because I know that I will find her. Love isn't something that you seek out, its something that finds you. You don't need to be proactive, the best loves come when you aren't even looking. If I've already met the love of my life, then somehow we'll meet again or we'll stay in touch until one day we see we are meant for each other. If not, then she obviously wasn't the love of my life. And if people need to know you are interested there is alot simplier way to let them know. Try saying "I'm interested in you." A lot simpler and no room for confusion. Link to comment
spatzcolumbo Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 WOW...you REALLY misunderstand me, or REALLY have a VERY different opinion!! when your dealing with humans you are dealing with a much much more intelligent animal who is capable of greater things, including being better then these games. Sure, if your going to a bar you'll find people who exhibit those characteristics, but a bar isn't really somewhere where you are going to find the more intelligent or mature crowd. Yes Humans are more intelligent than other animal species, but that doesn't mean we don't play games. Its not about being 'better than these games'. You assume that these games are a bad thing. you play 'the game' too, you just play it in a different way. you being quiet and preferring to stay that way just takes a different approach to the 'mating game'. You also should not make such sweeping statements as "a bar isn't really somewhere where you are going to find the more intelligent or mature crowd". I go to bars all the time. I have a good degree in Computing and business, and currently work for one of the most respected universities in the UK. In fact, this kind of comment would be one that i would expect from someone of lower intellect, and someone less mature. Of course, i am not saying this about you, because you clearly know what you want to say! I say its frustrating because there's no point to it. The idea of having to be the Alpha Male or that women should be flicking there hair and batting their eyes is old fashioned and should be forgotten. It shouldn't be looked at as people trying to "appear" to be having a good time or that it is all a game to attract attention from others. If people are enjoying themselves, it will show. This isn't part of some psycological experiment and people aren't just animals. There IS a point to it, the point is to meet people, and have a good time. I am not forcing this way of life onto you, i am merely pointing out that in MY experience, it is a lot more interesting and exciting than being the quiet person in the corner. Of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and variety is the spice of life, so what's good for me is not always good for the next person. But the fact is that we DO have the 'Alpha male' thing going on, and it IS human nature. It isn't about the 'appearance' that you are having a good time. Is it not possible that these people actually ARE having a good time?? I have a great time flirting with people. There isn't anything in it - it is harmless, friendly flirting. I know the boundaries, and i feel happy in my ability to tell other peoples boundaries, and how far i can take things. When i talk about people being the 'Alpha Male', it is not something that people set out to do - it is not something that you do on purpose...it often just happens. Body language is a natural reflex, not a forced one. You give off all kinds of signals with your body language, and you probably don't even realise it. Infact, when we meet people, 55% of our impression of people is through their body language. Around 38% is through the tone and inflection in our voices, and only 7% is in what we actually say!! I'd whether pay attention to those who don't demonstrate those "attention getting qualities." They usually have more to say and are more interesting, their just not comfortable exposing themselves to the whole group. Again, here you make a massive generalisation (i am guilty of doing this myself in a few of my posts, so i'm not having a go at you!!). I see myself as a nice guy, but also as someone who likes to be the center of attention - i love socialising and meeting random new people, and i have a lot to say. I am well educated, i have travelled a lot, and i feel i have a lot to talk about. Just as much as the next person, whether they are quiet or loud, nice, or jerk. If I say something that could even remotely be seen as teasing, it has nothing to do with trying to get them to like me. It's all about the other person and making them smile. And why should you adapt to other people? Shouldn't we just be who we are and let the person like us for us. If they don't that's not my fault and I shouldn't have to change just to fit in. I tease people who enjoy being teased. The object of the teasing - to make them smile, and have a good time. Exactly what you are trying to do. This doesn't make me a jerk though. It makes me fun to be with. I am not suggesting that it is ONLY teasing that i do. If i am interested in someone and they like to be teased, then i will tease them, but i will balance that with some nice one-to-one conversation that allows them to see i am more than just a tease. Thats my point - it is about getting the balance. At the end of the day (and as cheesy and cliched as it sounds), Humans are sexual beings...The idea of teasing, and having an edge is to build up sexual tension. The 'best friends' thing is essential to any relationship, but equally as important is having sexual tension. You are right, we should just be who we are, and let the person like us for who we are. But as i keep saying, i used to just be the 'nice quiet guy' and it got me nowhere, and slowly but surely, i changed into who i am now. It was a natural transition, and now i feel happier about myself, and i have more fun. Obviously you can't force that kind of change - it just happens or it doesn't. No, its not possible to be a nice guy and a jerk. By definiton those two are opposites. If you are a true nice guy then you wouldn't dream of acting like a jerk. You can be intriguing and still be yourself, but not the way your making out. If you really are intriguing to someone, you shouldn't feel the need to treat things like a game. That implies deception or holding back. Be yourself and let what happens happens. If you are really intriguing, it will show through without you needing to resort to attention getting tactics. And who you are deep down should reflect in your outer persona. They shouldn't be separate things that come out at different times, they are linked together. Maybe I'm strange but I've always preferred to have a "what you see is what you get" attitude. Listen buddy, are you calling me a Jerk?? (Just kidding)...this all depends on your definition of 'Jerk'. I personally don't think i am a jerk. Some people would, just like some people would think you are a jerk. My point is its not about being a jerk or a nice guy - its about finding the middle ground. Its about being the nice guy when you are the nice guy, but also not worrying about upsetting people every now and then if that is what happens, because that is how life goes. For instance, do you think i am a jerk if i flirt with someone in a friendly way, even though i am not interested in any more? I am not a jerk if she is doing the same and it is clear that it is just a bit of fun. I would only become a jerk if i did it and i knew that she had feelings for me but i had none forher. I would never do this. The intrigue thing is about giving a bit, then holding a bit back (i picked this stuff up from Beec, who used to post here a lot). Its about not giving it all away to start with, but wanting people to come back for more. Teasing is one of the easiest ways to do this. There is nothing underhanded about it. Not everyone finds me intriguing. Some people find me boring. Just like some people find you boring, and some find you intriguing. I do not resort to attention grabbing tactics, i just know what i want, and i go for it. I wouldn't want someone who is 'what you see is what you get'...how boring would that be?? There would be nothing there to hold my interest. As for waiting for the one, you can have something to compare it against without meeting as many as many people as possible. I haven't had to meet lots of people and date to know what I actually want. I've known that from the time I first every thought about love.I think that deep down, everyone knows what they are looking for. I'll sit back and wait for the person of my dreams because I know that I will find her. Love isn't something that you seek out, its something that finds you. You don't need to be proactive, the best loves come when you aren't even looking. If I've already met the love of my life, then somehow we'll meet again or we'll stay in touch until one day we see we are meant for each other. If not, then she obviously wasn't the love of my life. And if people need to know you are interested there is alot simplier way to let them know. Try saying "I'm interested in you." A lot simpler and no room for confusion. I am not suggesting that you need to go out and sleep with as many women as possible, but i AM saying that there is nothing wrong with dating other women, and have it not work out. How do you know what you truly want until you have looked about a bit?? Would you buy a new car without doing any research first, without test driving a few models before you decide?? To me, that seems like a foolish way of doing things. What if i buy a car because i thought it is what i wanted, but then find out after ten year that it really is NOT what i wanted at all!! You are 100% correct, love is NOT something that you seek out, it is something that finds you. But there are different levels of emotion...dating women before finding the one is all about those different levels...learning what love really is. I have this opinion because the number of times before that i have thought i know exactly what i want, only to get it, and then discover that it was never really what i truly wanted. Sure you could just find that person and say "I'm interested in you", but where is the romance?? where is the fun?? To me, it is SO boring. i'd love to end up getting married and be able to say "yeah we met as friends, and used to tease each other all the time...we knew what we wanted, but we didn't have to say it". I just think that life and love should be as much about fun as anything else. if i'm wrong, then i'm wrong, but i'll have had a great time finding that out!! This post is too long. I need to get out more Link to comment
DropToZero Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Oh shysoul....You need serious help....I'm sorry, but at the rate you're going and the way you think(and tell me about all of these ideas)....THEY ARE EXACTLY LIKE MINE....omg....I don't know how many times I'd have to say this. I used to think the 'games' between girls and guys were just for kids too...I was better than that.....and I was completely wrong. You are not going to get a girl with your attitude....I had the same one....I so highly suggest you go get some information from a friends, some that are good with girls, that have a lot of girls that are friends....you've gotta turn around somewhere....I will get this thru your head sooner or later...no matter how many posts it takes. Umm, ya and that last comment about bars and ppl in them....dont judge....I may not drink...and havent been to a bar....but don't judge like that. I don't manipulate things or nudge it in my direction. I'm nice, honest, and straightforward. If I say something that could even remotely be seen as teasing, it has nothing to do with trying to get them to like me. It's all about the other person and making them smile. And why should you adapt to other people? Shouldn't we just be who we are and let the person like us for us. If they don't that's not my fault and I shouldn't have to change just to fit in. Okay...this is where you're wrong...'nice, honest, and straightforward'...this is where the games come into play that you think you're better than. I don't care HOW frickin much you understand about women, all that you know, anything.....its wrong. You will learn...somehow, whether you try it out, or it happens to you, that girls like to play games. It's just something that I can't explain, b/c I never got it either. Girls love to wonder how much you like them(or if you even do)...girls love to figure things out....and the majority are natural flirts, whether they do it openly or only to certain guys. Lets just face it, most girls are smarter than guys when it comes to dating....unless you can figure out how to understand their ways of thinking. Now I'm not saying you will ever completely understand "why" they think that way, you just need to know how. I'm sorry, but most girls that say they want a guy that's 'straightforward and nice(as yourself)', are not thinking the same way as you. If you thought about it like a girl, that's boring...that's no fun...who wants to go out with a guy who reveals all his feelings or etc....on the girl...that gives her no chance to wonder or think about you. And you're like, well I shouldn't have to change myself...its not about changing, its about holding back a little information...that's restriction and control. Okay....'nice guy and jerk' in the same sentence(meaning a good thing) are possible. Ill say I'm one now...probably in the eyes of you, I'm one b/c I've learned what I'd been doing wrong. Hmm...no, you can't be intriguing to someone by just telling about yourself. I'm sorry, but unless this girl thinks you're so handsome she doenst care what you say.....just telling about yourself...is boring. Holding back info, is what makes girls wonder, and WANT to know more about you....if you just throw it all out there w/o making her pry or try to find out more about you....its boring. How can 'waiting for the one' compare....THERE is NOTHING at all to compare besides the fact that they are complete opposites. From what you've told me from earlier posts....you know nothing about dating or g/f's....if you try and counter that and say you do, I would never believe it. No girl is going to just all of a sudden 'know' that you're the 'one' for her. That's never going to happen...and I rarely say never. You're sitting around 'waiting'....please face reality man...if you know what you want in life...pursue. I don't know if you're a college grad or anything....but you're never gonna graduate sitting on your comp. playing games and talking online. You MUST work, you MUST learn, you MUST experiment, and try new things. The same idea applies with girls. Try saying "I'm interested in you." A lot simpler and no room for confusion. Okay...I'm about to start my own post on why that doesn't work. Maybe after a little flirting, and some fun with her...DATING....that could have some effect...but not to just some girl that thinks you're a 'nice guy' If she goes out with you, its just b/c she's being nice and doesn't want to make you feel bad....I'm sorry, but I've been there....its true. She probably doesn't have any real feelings for you unless you get a response like "YA! I'd love to!"....if you get an "okay, that's cool"...or if she thinks about whether or not she should give you her number...she's just being nice. If you get her that way...cool...but you've got a hell of a 'friend' hole to dig yourself out of. I have literal stories I could type out on why that doesn't work b/c I've tried it. If you really want me to explain...I could, but this post is long enough...maybe another time. Link to comment
ShySoul Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 LtAwesome, Your right, I do need help. I need help defending this point of view because it gets tiring being the only willing to voice an opinion that goes against popular belief. But I’ll do it anyways because I firmly believe everything I’m saying. It’s all true and I can back it up with not just my feelings, but the thoughts and feelings of, ready for this, girls too! You were right before, you just gave up to soon. I don’t think I need to turn anything around, I’m actually quite ahead of the “game,” so to speak. I’ll get it through to your head no matter how many posts it. And on people at bars, I don’t drink but I have been in bars and I’ve been around people who were drinking. I didn’t overhear any highly intelligent conversation. Not to say that people there are stupid, it’s just not the place to go if you are looking for something serious or intelligent. You say that girls love to figure things out, wonder how much you like them. You say that girls like to play games. Well I’ve been emailing a girl I met online, on this very site, for the past few months and I think you should take a look at what she had to say: “And, most of all, do not resort to being a bad guy. I’ve seen lots of nice guys do this. They think, “Oh. Well, if I become a jerk to her, tease her… then I’ll catch her attention.” Guys have this wrong impression that attracting girls is by mistreating them. Whoever gives that kind of advice must be really stupid…No matter what it’s important to always be you and never play games. If a nice guy wants a nice girl, he should be a gentleman and court her the old fashioned way. Otherwise, a nice guy trying to use ‘bad boy’ tactics will only find himself lonely, or a girl who’s just into him for his money.” This comes from one of the smartest, nicest, sweetest persons I’ve ever encountered. She is saying the exact same thing I am. So, contrary to what you may think, girls don’t like games. Sure, there are probably some who do. But it’s not as many as you think. And even if it was, I would still go for the minority who don’t. Restriction and control shouldn’t be factoring into a relationship. That’s being manipulative and if there is one thing love isn’t, its manipulative. I’ll stick to being a nice guy and a gentleman and I’ll end up with the nice girl. About being intriguing to someone just by telling about myself, it’s possible. I’ve been talking to a another girl on AIM almost every night for the past month. I’ve been honest and straightforward with her, not holding anything back. If she asks me a question I’ll give an honest answer. The only things I haven’t said are things that are very personal and that I feel we need to know each other better before I’ll tell her about them. She respects that. In fact, we’ve also shared some personal things with each other. By not trying to make her pry she seems to have a pretty good opinion of me and keeps messaging me each night to talk some more. We both find our chats fun, not boring. And you can’t say it’s because she thinks I’m handsome since we haven’t exchanged pictures yet, though we did talk on the phone once. So either I have a very sexy voice (which I seriously doubt) or she’s interested in who I am as a person. And both girls I’ve mentioned have complimented me on how nice, sweet, and honest I am. If you really want to impress a girl, just be nice to her. Sorry, but your also mistaken on the whole waiting for “the one” issue. I know a lot about dating and relationships. It’s a misconception that those not in relationships don’t know what they are talking about. Look at it this way, do you have to be in a cat wreck and taken to the hospital in an ambulance to know that it’s not something you want to go through? Do you have to stick your hand into fire to know it burns? No, you know these things from instinct and observation. Similarly, I’ve always known in my heart what I want from a relationship. Plus, I’ve seen my share of relationships, both good and bad. I know what made the good ones good and the bad ones bad. I’ve seen what works and what doesn’t work. I know my values, beliefs, and interests. Trust me, when someone that’s right for me comes along, I’ll know. True, I do have to say something to her to show I’m interested. But there doesn’t need to be any games involved. If I talk to her and be her friend, there will more then likely be a feeling between us. From there it’s a matter of asking her out. No need for any silly games or making her wonder, honesty is the best policy. And should you disagree, I’ll point you back to the same two girls who agree with me again. Both were actually amazed that I’ve never had a girlfriend because I seem like such a “romantic sweetheart.” And for your information, I do pursue what I want in life. I’m graduating college in May, honors student, always put 110% into my work, and looking for a good job that I can build into a career. That’s what I mean when I say people shouldn’t worry about relationships. Get your own life settled and let love happen when the time is right. Finally, what do you mean by a 'friend' hole? I didn't realize being someone's friend was such a horrible thing. Yeah, if you really like her then it would be frustrating to hear that she only wants to be friends. But thats not a bad thing. You'll hurt for a bit, but realize that if it was meant to be then it would be happening. Since it isn't, then you weren't meant for each other and the right person is still out there someone. In the meantime, just enjoy being around another person and having another friend. Link to comment
Queen_Midas Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 I can't really decide which i prefer anymore.. I am generally more attracted to the sensitive, shy, vulnerbale guy.. but the thing with that is that "he" never approaches me.. so I'm not considering whether it might be better to go for someone more outgoing \and arrogant, someone who'll actually make an effort? Still I think at the end of the day, I will still be a little more attracted to the sensitive shy type.. QM. Link to comment
I_love_rain_hugs_and_you Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 ITs really important for you to stand up for what you believe in and maintain your integrity, even if it cost you dates with girls. For me, there have been many many times when I could have given up my standards to have a girls sleep with me. But I resisted. Most people have standards, but not many people are able to keep to them no matter what. Believe in yourself. Believe in your future. Do the right thing, and not the popular thing. One thing that I have learnt in life is that doing something to be popular will cost in the end. Even if no one rewards you, even if people attack you for doing the right thing, keep to what you know is right. Remember also not to dictomize people. I mean, the "nice guys" and "jerk" categories are not exclusive. I mean, no one is a nice guy all the time, and no one is a jerk all the time either. People fall in between the 2 extremes, on different levels. There have times when you probably have been a jerk, as have 100% of humans on this planet, including myself. ANd YOU, like 100% of humans, at some time have been a nice person (even Hitler was an animal rights actavist, and he was a vegetarian). No one is perfectly nice or a jerk. But anyway, its important that you be who you are. If you are a kind, gentle person then show it to girls. Be yourself. If you're not a jerk, then don't be one. Link to comment
MetalJoe Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 It's okay ShySoul, you're not the only one to defend the nice guy and the myths surrounding "nice guys" all being wusses which are spread by certain people (in general - I'm not necessarily targeting anyone from this forum). I actually came to my viewpoint from a different direction to many. I used to think it was all the jerks (to use the phrase repeated here) that got the girls, and nice guys came last. Being a jerk or a game player isn't me and I refused to change into someone I wasn't. As I've gotten older and wiser, I've realised that the nice guys don't come last - in fact, they outperform the jerks on many levels because they don't play games and they don't mess people around. Sure, jerks get more women, I can't deny that - but I look at them and I see them on one night stands or struggling with short-term relationships, and very rarely succeeding with anything meaningful. Often, they're being played just as much as they think they're playing. Then I take a look around at my female friends, most of whom are happily married or in successful long-term relationships. Ooh now here's a surprise - they're all with nice guys! And my nice guy male friends? Gosh, wow, most of them are in happy, long-term relationships too. The few jerks I know? Still playing games, still ploughing through a string of short-term women, still convinced their way is the one true way. That's cool, it's their choice. I realise the world isn't black and white, but shades of grey, and I do appreciate there are pros and cons of both types (and all the types in between) - this above is from my own experiences, although confirmed by others I've spoken to on this very subject. Oh, and I do sub to David's e-mail newsletter as I was curious. Some good points do crop up from time-to-time, but I do have a good chuckle at some things based on seeing others pulling the same moves. David is selling a product and the newsletter reflects that - it's a nice bit of glossy marketing. Hey guys, buy my well-priced DVD/Book/Programme and you too can have women on tap! And how many times do I have to repeat: women, please send in your photos! (But they never do...) Link to comment
DropToZero Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 For metaljoe, Ive read them too, its a con in the way he tries to sell that stuff ya, but he's right about what most of he says. I dont agree with ALL of it either...I agree with his idea of ...pretty much what this post is about, arrogance, it shows more confidence...and teases some, and can usually get a girl to laugh and have a good time with you. But I DO not, repeat do not agree with all of it...his stuff is more for just 'dating' ...not relationships. His stuff is to get the 'nice' guys and 'shy' guys off their butts and dating instead of sitting around complaining about why girls don't want to be more than friends with them. Please explain being 'ahead of the game'...if its these emails you have? That's nothing...sorry. This girl that you have quoted....I swear I'm about to start a post on why girls don't know what they want. I have heard...not READ...HEARD, as in with my own ears, from girls that are my friends say that EXACT type of idea. May I point out that I heard it...from at least 4 girls that have told me that, not read in emails or AIM. Um...one of them...I asked out, no, that didn't go anywhere.....why? cuz I was nice, only nice....she told me. She thought I was 'cute' in her words, but that just won't do it. Another one of those girls, which whom I know so very well, she ended up going out with a huge partier, drinker, and overall jerk that is ten times worse than I could ever think about being. The other two I havent met in a while, since Hs I graduated last year. Another girl, which whom is an online friend...Ive talked to her for about 3 years I'd have to say...and on the phone a few times. Told me the exact same thing....ya know who she's going out with now? A guy that drank and partied worse than the girl(above), and he almost cheated on her....now thank god for her, she broke it off finally. But you know who I hear about still b/c he's still 'in her heart'....or she can't stop thinking about him.....is her ex. I'm glad you've met someone online, that's cool....you really really need to meet her tho. I'd be interested in what goes on after this happens...please let me know. I recently met some girl 'online' thru a friend....long story short, I don't live on campus ,and she does....and she was on his s/n one time messing around and etc....she ended up telling me her s/n and we've talked since, and met a few times...but I've been really busy. I tease her sooo much....she has such a great time talking to me....she literally told me the first time I talked to her(b/c I had to IM her) that she rarely IM's ppl, she just waits for them to IM her. Um..lately its been like a 5 to 1 ratio, of her IM'ing me to me IM'ing her. She asks my friends about me all the time, and If I had to guess, I'd say I'm probably on her mind a lot. Thats just...one example....b/c I've met other girls(in person) and their interested in me too. So for your few emails...I've got about 10 + to counter that with all the new girl 'friends' Ive made lately. Sorry, but your also mistaken on the whole waiting for ?the one? issue. I know a lot about dating and relationships---Shysoul Your way of comparing a 'car wreck' and 'fire burns' are so frickin wrong. Do not even tell me you know so much about dating and relationships when you've done neither. Thats like me saying I know a LOT about guitar or playing my instrument. Now...I can play, b/c I practice, and only b/c of that...but I do not know enuf to say I'm good. I might know how to play guitar, and be decent, but that's a next step saying I would know what I was doing if you put me on a stage for the first time(b/c I've never done that)...just like you've never dated.... If you've never been put in that position...dont say you know a lot by observation and talking about it... Not until you've dated a few times will I even listen to that... You know 'about' girls..you know 'about' dating'...and you know 'about' relationships from what youve seen, but you don't personally know....experience is the best teacher. A friend hole...is just something that guys that "really like" the girls they meet...but instead of flirting with them, they are nice, and buy them gifts...acting like a friend. Then after oh...about a few months, they spring all their feelings on these girls who have never thought of that guy as more than a friend. Now If they want to be a friend, cool....but most of these guys have some sort of crush on these girls...and then when they tell them their feelings....most reject them. If I'm wrong...which I'm probably not(b/c I've done IT PERSONALLY, and IT SUCKS)....just read all the posts in 'att. and flirting'...and 'dating, etc'....you can scan thru past posts of guys 'falling' for girls, and wondering if they should tell the girl. You really want to know...I probably have some of my own posts in their too about that.... Link to comment
ComputerGuy Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 I try to be a nice guy, whether I am or not, I'll let others decide, but I see myself as a nice guy. I open doors for girls, help them in and out of cars, ALWAYS show them respect no matter what, and just generally be nice, nothing out of the ordinary. I am shy, and a bit introverted, but I am by far weak. I will not let a woman walk all over me, and I will stand up for myself when I have to. I tend to avoid arguments and confrontation, and it seems to me that in doing so, I am labelling myself as weak and insecure. I just don't like arguing, I grew up with my parents arguing all the time, and quite frankly I've ahd enough arguing to last me a life time. thereforeeee I tend to walk away. However, just because I normally do, doesnt mean I cant and wont stand up for myself. I flat out refuse to change who I am, I am going to continue being exactly as I am, and if gets me nowhere, I dont care, it's who I am. If my geekiness, shyness and respectfulness cant be accepted then thats their problem, not mine. Link to comment
Bjourne Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Why does good girls like bad guys? Cause bad guys tell mad lies. Link to comment
ShySoul Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 MetalJoe, you've got the right attitude. Don't change. The jerks may get more girls, but it doesn't last. It's all about quality, not quantity. The jerks can have a 100 girls and still be alone when it comes down to it. Even if I find only one girl in my lifetime, our love will be the real deal and we'll both be happy for what we've found. LtAwesome, boy, you really need to change this attitude. It's not going to lead you to the places you want to go. I doubt you'll listen to me and in the end its going to have to be a listen you learn on your own. I'm just trying to save you the trouble of taking the hard route when you were already on the right path before. It's not just the emails. I've been complimented by plenty of girls on nice and sweet I am. I know you'll counter by saying it never went any where. The reason it didn't was because we didn't have enough in common to have any kind of serious relationship. Being nice had nothing to do with it. I'm sorry if you were actually turned down by someone for being nice. You had the unfortunate experience of running into a very shallow and mean girl. Being a jerk isn't exclusive to guys, girls are jerks to. Now think about it. Did her being a jerk like that make her more attractive? Or did it make you angry and hurt? Girls feel the same way when a guy is a jerk, they aren't attracted, they are repelled. It could also be the age and maturity factor. If you've just graduated highschool, people at that age aren't usually very mature (sorry for those of you who are). People at that age don't want to be serious, they think they should be going wild and partying. That favors the jerks. But eventually, that grows old and girls realize that's not what they want. Then you could get stuck with the stigma of being the fun guy to date, but not the guy to settle down with and have a serious committment. Being a jerk will eventually backfire on all these guys. With the girl online, we've talked of meeting. But what goes on after isn't a big deal. I'm not going into this expected fireworks or anything. She's just a neat person who I get along with. A nice guy doesn't expect anything to happen, he lets what happens happen. Again, your trying to judge success based upon number. It doesn't work like that. So what if you have a dozen girls emailing you or interested in you. That doesn't mean anything will come of it. In a few months you could have lost contact with all of them while I'll still be talking to my one in a year. It's quality, not quantity. Ha, I don't know about relationships cause I haven't dated. Excuse me, I need to stop laughing here. I've heard that so many times its ridiculous. I've seen more than my share of relationship conflicts. If you knew the things I've seen, you'd be singing a different tune. I'll admit that actually going on a date is different. But I still know what to do. Be a gentleman, treat her well, make sure she is having a goodtime. Take time to listen to her and be there to give her support. Give her space when she needs it. Surprise her occasional with something thoughtful and sweet. Show her attention but don't smother her. Be honest, trustworthy, sincere. In all, be her friend and have fun. Did I leave anything out? The posts about the guys wondering if they should tell the girl usually has to do with people who are nervous and lack confidence in themselves. I know, I've responded to several of those posts and have the same problem asking a girl. But it has nothing to do with them being nice or falling into some trap. Talking to member of the opposite sex can be difficult and a fear of rejection is normal. But being nice can actually work in these guys favor. And even if the girl isn't interested, then that's ok. It may hurt, but the guy will get over it. No reason to throw away a friendship on something that wasn't meant to be. And it's better that they say something anyway, if they don't then they miss out on any chance of her saying yes. Plus the regret of inaction is the worst feeling there is. Link to comment
DropToZero Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 It's not just the emails. I've been complimented by plenty of girls on nice and sweet I am. I know you'll counter by saying it never went any where. The reason it didn't was because we didn't have enough in common to have any kind of serious relationship. Being nice had nothing to do with it. It's late at nite, but I'll do my best. I've been complimented too....but my 'counter' on that is not the same reason as yours. Relationships are not built on what people 'have in common.' You're talking about material items, ideas, music, sports...god I could go on. Sure they aren't a bad thing, but that's definitely not what determines how a relationship will go. Some people are together and have absolutely nothing in common....and I'd have to say my parents alone are prime examples. I don't know how I can say this so that you will ever 'get' it.....attraction is a FEELING. Nothing, nothing in this world would make me like a girl just b/c she just happened to enjoy a few of my favorite activities or sports. I was absolutely infatuated with a girl my senior year of HS who was a complete opposite of any girl I would ever 'picture' myself with(this is the girl that turned me down b/c I was nice only). Actually her 'being a jerk' as you put it....didn't do anything....all I did all senior year was try to figure out why...why didn't she like me....she had literally told me that she liked nice guys once before.....but why not ME??? She gave me this huge smile every time I passed her in the hall and we always said hi and I seemed to be able to make her laugh once in a while...but I never knew what happened. Now like I said, her being 'mean' about it, did nothing....hell, if I ran into her this day...I'd still like her, I still really want to date her and see where it could go. Attraction is a feeling....god just thinking about her again makes me want to see her. The only reason I got her out of my mind was b/c when I graduated I stopped seeing her weekly. Honestly...from what I've learned now...I bet I could at least get a date with her instead of just being 'good friends'....yea I got the 'friends' speech that year....it sucks. So you think b/c I'm teasing girls now...and having a good time...I'm not myself? I'm still nice, just to an extent. I'll still pull chairs, still hold doors, still talk maturely(meaning no big time sex terms or talk)....but I can still def. make a commitment if I wanted a g/f. Really I don't have the time for a g/f now....I mean, I would like to be able to have one, but there's just so many other things I'm dealing with that it'd never work out. In a few months I'll lose contact? except I have all their numbers...and most of them are becoming really good friends too. I never had that in HS...I'll admit that. You want to talk quality over quantity....its true yes I'll agree. Who says all these girls I've met recently aren't up to good quality tho? You'll still be talking to your one girl in a year....I've been talking to one girl for 3 already...we're really good friends, but both of us can admit that we'd never date or like one another... I'm curious as to whether you like this girl you've been talking to, or is just a friends thing? I can't quote this exactly...but aren't most people judge by their qualities and friends, the more friends you have in life, and the better they are, the more rich you are in life....it has nothing to do with materials. I want to come out of college with so many friends I can't count that high....and I would not lose contact like you say. They aren't aquaintances...they will be friends. Again...You've 'seen your share'....but have until you have "BEEN IN YOUR SHARE" will I give thought to listen to that. See you sound like you have the general idea, but you will slip up on those things b/c you do not know about them in a personal sense. Until you do it tho....you won't learn from your mistake. I agree w/ those last few sentences in that paragraph tho, I never said I had changed to an extent that I still wouldn't do that....but you will slip up when you get a girl. You'll do 'too much' of one of those qualities that you're proud of, and scare her off. For the VERY last paragraph...I'm not even going to talk about it b/c I was just flipping thru channels today on TV.....wait for a re-run of an MTV's MADE show......it was something about a kid wanting to do salsa, and also to impress and try and get the girl he was dancing with. I saw the last 20 mins or so, and I could have predicted the ending myself having never seen it....guess what? I was right....just check it out. Link to comment
Shidoshi Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 Short and sweet. As a teenager I was shy and nice, where did it get me as far as girlfriends? Once in a while I would get an opportunity to date a girl ONLY because I have what many girls have complimented me on having, a "cute" face. Seriously, that is what got me in the door initially. Why didn't any of those relationships last? I was TOO NICE!!!! Ever since I wised up and altered my behavior, not change who I am, just altered my attitude, it has NEVER been the same. This is the honest to god truth. Old behavior = No girlfriends (or lasting interest) New attitude = Some girls will not leave me alone Popular belief is not always something you can ignore, atleast when it comes to relationships. Why? Simply because you will probably NEVER find a woman who is not affected by it. It will always be a game, and you have to participate in order to win. Link to comment
Shidoshi Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 Also, another important thing I've realized. The more attractive the girl is the more likely she is high maintenance, and requires a lot of game playing. Just from my experience. Link to comment
ShySoul Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 Shidoshi, As a teenager most people have no clue what they are doing or what they want from relationships. People go for "cute faces" because their relying on horomones and what society tells them they should do. Granted, that's not everyone but it is a good deal of people. The reason the relationships didn't last has nothing to do with you being too nice, unless you were smoothering her with attention and becoming an annoyance. But if you were simply being a gentleman, that's not what ended things. The reason things didn't work out was because you weren't right for each other. I don't know details, but it could have been because you didn't have enough in common or because you two weren't mature enough to handle a long term relationship. There could be other reasons, but it has nothing to do with being a nice guy. How did you change your behavior? If it was to believe in yourself and have confidence, then thats good. But if it was to be a jerk and start playing games, then your taking a step backwards. Sure, it may be working in the short term, but will it really work in the long run? Are the girls you're with now ones you can see in a long term relationship or are they just out for fun? Good guys end up with the girls and they settle down for long lasting meaningful relationships. Do you really want a girl who is "high maintenance" and requires alot of game playing? From what I've seen and heard, these girls tend to just be using people and aren't necessarily the girls you want to be around. If a girl truly cares about you, they won't require any maintenance or games. Being honest, nice, and romantic is all that's needed. You don't have to buy into popular beliefs and play the game in order to come put on top. In business the ones who come out on top are the ones who are thinking ahead, being innovative and setting trends for the future. I don't want to say that love is like business because its not. But the idea fits. By going against the grain, I could end up ahead and find someone who is as progressive as me. I'll meet someone who doesn't buy into society's norms and thinks differently like I do. The best way to win is to not just play the game, but become the new game. Don't settle for the rules, set new rules. Link to comment
Double J Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 ShySoul, I don't mean to completely knock off everything you're saying, and I respect your opinions, but I honestly side with LTAwesome's viewpoint. The truth is that being nice is something that girls normally associate with a friend. Nice guys are always there when you need them, sacrifice their time for others, do anything to accommodate girls, etc. If you think about it, why would a girl be attracted to a guy who gives her everything she wants? If anything, it's going to make her spoiled, and when people are ALWAYS there at your beck and call, you're going to be tempted to take advantage of them sooner or later. I'm not saying that a guy shouldn't be nice, but everything is always better if used in moderation. I don't know if you understood what LTAwesome was trying to explain about teasing, but I can attest to the fact that it really works. It just sends out all the right signals that you could care less what she thinks of you, as long as you refrain from doing it in a derogatory/demeaning manner. Okay, you're nice... So? How does that separate you from other guys? Things that really attract girls are qualities that make you unique, such as writing poetry, sense of humor, play the guitar, etc. Girls are also very keen on a guy who's mature and can carry thoughtful conversations. I have a friend who's the nicest guy you'll ever meet. If you need him, he'll be there for you. But he seems to have adopted the same mentality you have (and I admit to having this mentality in the past) about "waiting" for the right girl. He puts no effort into going out, joining clubs, or doing anything at all to put him in a better position to meet and interact with girls. That is why he has ZERO game, and he's probably never had a g/f in his life. I'm not saying that you'll never meet this girl, of course. I've noticed that the majority of guys would readily accept a long-term relationship with a decent girl if it presented itself. Life just has a way of bringing things to you when you've worked on it. I'll give you an example. I met my high school ex girlfriend unexpectedly on a field trip my senior year. We spent a few days in a hotel for state competitions. One day, all of our fellow peers left the hotel room, and it was just her and me. At that point I knew that I had to take advantage of the opportunity. I approached her and acted nice, but I also threw in a few jokes and didn't make it so "serious." A few days later she was the one asking me for my number, and that's how we hooked up. If I would never have taken the initiative, nothing would have happened. "Bumping" into a girl and falling in love seems like something you see in the movies. My encounter with my ex was sorta like that, but nothing would have happened if it wasn't for me. As a man you have to be willing to risk rejection. Like LT said most girls will not approach guys, but if you've made a good first impression, they'll be the ones giving you the signals later on. Like I said earlier, balance is the best policy. Mixing "being nice" with teasing, flirting, joking, and maturity lead to success. Just like other things in life, too much of something either is either not good, or just plain boring. Using each of these things in moderation not only makes you unpredictable but it keeps the girls on their toes. Hope this helped. Link to comment
ShySoul Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Double J, This is fun, defending a different point of view against any and all comers. Really, the more you guys try to argue with me, the more you just prove my points. I'll show you how. Yes, being nice is associated with being a friend, and the root of any lasting, meaningful relationship is friendship. If you aren't friends then how can you expect things to work out? Why would a girl want a guy who is willing to give her everything she wants? Why WOULDN'T she? Isn't that what we are all looking for, someone who completes us and completely understands us? Someone who will be there for us through the good times and the bad? You mean to tell me that girls don't fantasize about meeting Prince Charming who will sweep them off their feet and take care of them? Now, I'm not saying to ALWAYS be at her beck and call and become her willing slave doing everything she wants. That's just asking to be used. Your looking at a nice guy as someone who won't stand up for themselves and lets other take advantage of them. That's not a true nice guy. A true nice guy will stand up for himself. That's why I mentioned earlier about not smoothering the girl and giving each other space. Time apart can be a good thing. Relationships involve compromise and the ability to work together. But you should be able to do that in a nice, polite manner. Someone who is a jerk or plays games will be likely to do it in such a manner that leaves the girl confused and unsure where she stands. The nice guy is the diplomat who reaches a fair and decent agreement that leaves both parties satisfied and happy. Are you really sure you want to be sending out the signal that you couldn't care less about her? A gril is likely to take that as you not really being into her. A girl wants someone who will be there for her and who she can count on to provide love, support, and comfort. If she feels like you would put her aside for something else, that could lead her to have serious doubts about whether she wants to be with you. You want to know what separates me from other guys? The fact that I'm willing to defend this point of view even when I seem to be the only guy who believes it. Think about it. If ever other guy is going around playing these games and thinking that you have to display jerk like characteristics, some girl may find me a refreshing change of pace. I've always thought differently then most and can offer unique perspectives on most things, including relationships. The fact that I don't think like most guys can be a huge advantage. Plus I've always been more sensitive and in touch with my emotions, two traits that girls have but many guys seem to lack. I can relate well with females, which will serve me well in the long run. I also possess all the qualities you mentioned that girls like. I do write poetry and have a sense of humor (a strange one yes, but a good one nonetheless). I don't play an instrument but I can't be an expert at everything, right? I've been complimented since I was young on how mature I am, much more mature than my age. My idea of a great time is having a meaningful, thoughtful, heart to heart conversation. You seem to think that just because I am a nice guy that I have nothing else going for me. Wrong. Not to brag or anything, but I think I would make an excellant boyfriend. The thing is, because I think so differently it is harder for me to find that person who I really connect with. When I do, I will be able to make it work because I know what a girl wants and I know how not to take things to far to the point where someone is being taken for granted. I have all the qualities you say I should have. Plus, being nice and sensitive is the icing on the cake that will make me the better choice over some guy who is into playing games. Any girl I would want to be with would be able to see that and if she doesn't, she clearly isn't the girl for me. About your friend, if you are going to be concerned it should be because he isn't doing something to improve himself. Putting himself in a position to meet girls really isn't a concern. Why are you so concerned that he's not meeting girls? Has it occurred to you that he may not be interested in that right now? Perhaps he is happy and is concentrating on getting his own life together first. Not everyone thinks they need to be in a relationship and need to be going out joining clubs and meeting people. It's his choice, respect it. And watch, when he does get a relationship, it'll last. About your ex girlfriend, look at how it happened. You weren't looking for anything, the opportunity found you. Yes, you have to be willing to take advantage of situations that are presented to you, but you don't have to go out looking for them. My plan is to let what happens happen. If placed in a situation such as yours I would talk to her but not expecting anything to happen. I would be nice and friendly. If we got along well and wanted to keep talking, that's good. Should something develop, thats also good. But if nothing happens, so what. Again, your misunderstanding what a nice guy is. Nice doesn't have to mean serious all the time. Nice simple means being polite and considerate. You did "bump" into a girl and fall for her, so it can happen. It happened for you and someday it will happen for me. As my friend says, life is 49% fate and 51% you. Life presents the doorways then its up to you to step through. Wait until the moment presents itself, don't be trying to make something happen. When the moment is there, be ready to seize the day. But it's being nice that will lead her to think of you in a more positive light and make her more likely to remember you in a good way. Being nice includes being mature and having fun. Flattery is a form of flirting and involves being nice. So being nice really covers all the things you've mentioned. Again, I think it's a misunderstanding of what nice is. Your making the classic nice guys are whimps mistake. That's simply not the case. Just because someone is nice, doesn't mean they are boring. I think I mentioned in this post about a girl I've been talking with online. I've been the definition of nice to her and she doesn't find our conversations boring. She's even said that we should meet and that we'd have fun together. I also keep her on her toes because she doesn't know what nice thing I'll say or do next. Every nice surprise she finds sweet and likes. A real nice guy can find a balance between being considerate and smoothering, between being there and being used, between being thoughtful and unpredictable... all the while never leaving doubt that you care about her and that your intentions are nothing but honerable. Link to comment
Caldus Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 There is more than one way to do all of this. In the end, you be yourself, lean on your strengths, you place yourself out there, and surround yourself with people who share similar interests. People play the "game" differently. This "game" is best played when you think about whether it fits you. For example, if you're a really nice guy, then play that kind of game. That way, you eventually attract the right person for you. Don't worry about how other people do it. Do all of the above with the intention of improving yourself and not just with the intention of jumping into a relationship. Life would suck anyway if you never leaned on your truly good qualities. You would be living your whole life without ever truly acting like yourself in front of others. Plus you probably won't ever find the right person for you. To sum it up, there's no universal way to do all of this. Link to comment
spatzcolumbo Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Shysoul, I find it quite hard to read your posts sometimes, because i feel like i am banging my head against a brick wall. I've not posted for a few days, but you had a fair few comments on my posts, and you are sticking by your opinions, which is entirely reasonable. I'm not just addressing you when i say this, but other people as well...you CAN NOT put such a strict definition on things such as 'nice guy' or 'jerk'. What you think is a nice guy, some girls would think of as 'creepy'. What you call 'Jerk', some girls would say "fun and exciting". You may not mean it in this way, but to me your posts come accross as if to say "anybody not like me MUST be a jerk". I am sure you do not mean it this way. I am part like you, and part like some of the other people who have posted. You suggest that anyone who is anything other than 'pure nice guy' is a jerk. You suggest that anyone who adapts to different people is not being themselves. How can you say this? Surely you can be yourself AND adapt to other people. Surely you are not so one dimensional that you are the exact same person ALL the time?? I adapt to other people, and talk to different people in different ways. This is called social interaction, and is about developing different social skills. Do you talk to your parents the same way that you talk to your friends?? No, probably not. You adapt to the ways in which different people talk to you. This is not a negative thing. You are too quick to suggest that this kind of adapting is manipulation, and MUST be bad. It is NOT bad. It is GOOD. Do you use pillow talk when you are talking to someone you know at work?? I sincerely hope not!! When i talk to different people in different ways, i am being ME. That is who i am. I have different relationships with different people, and these require different types of interaction and communication. This is exactly the same when it comes to dating. As far as 'the game' goes, i'd like to point out that this is all in the 'Dating' section, not the 'relationship' section. The 'game' is much more prominent in terms of dating, and becomes less of an issue when you are actually in a relationship with someone. The 'Game' is about the building up to a relationship. It is about anticipation, interest, excitement. It is not about knowing exactly what is going to happen, when it is going to happen, and how it is going to happen. If it was like that, then we'd all walk around with dating business plans. Maybe we should all agree to disagree. All i know is that i am having a lot of fun being myself, and have a lot of people who like me for who i am. Just the same as you, right?? Just using different techniques!! Link to comment
DropToZero Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Okay...so Jj wants some help....or at least some recognition for backing me lol. Um....Shy...we're not proving any of your points. I see two more things at least that are not going to ever work for you in life in this post alone. First of all....friends...I don't care how many you make, even being the nice guy...you are not going to date any of them, not seriously anyways. If you ask out a girl friend of yours, then she may accept, but I am almost certain...no make that " I am certain" she is doing it just so SHE doesn't look like a jerk by turning down the nice guy. Now did you do your homework and go watch that MADE show on MTV?....that's a prime example of me not more than a year ago....and you right now....very stubborn too. Haha, do you NOT get it...GIRLS ARE NOT ...NOT attracted to 'niceness'....I'm sorry...I don't know what I can say to get that thru your head. Maybe you should take a look back at your life, the number of girls you've asked out(if any, I don't know), see how they all reacted when you asked them out. If being NICE worked?....wouldn't you be the most successful dating and relationship guy I would know? B/c you don't seem to understand or LISTEN to what I'm saying. I need a girl that actually knows what she wants to post in here... See, the difference between you and I is that I have tried change...change in my attitude, confidence, and just my overall ideas of conversing with women....You on the other hand...will not even try. I was there in your exact shoes....so I've seen both sides of the story, everything you try and tell me is exactly what I already know...b/c I had the same exact ideas about it. You want to stay the 'nice' guy...you know what...if the nice guy was the one who always won out...then you should have at least had a relationship by now. You keep thinking your way and I promise you that you will still be on this site holding up your viewpoints in 5 years....alone. Alone meaning that you're still 'waiting' for the one and that you still believe in your nice guy techniques with no 'game' or flirting. Being nice isn't flirting....to most ppl...its just a human nature b/c its usually taught by the parents. My parents were huge influences on me...I think half the problems I had with getting a date in HS were b/c of them and them teaching me to be so nice and etc w/o learning how to flirt or tease and open up. Why would a girl want a guy who is willing to give her everything she wants? Why WOULDN'T she? Point number 1 to you're wrong idea....giving a girl everything she wants....won't work. I don't know how to say this without showing just...human logic. Umm...giving her everything she wants....even if you don't want to admit it, you WILL be the lower one in the relationship, you will be under her control(and I know you wont admit this)...but its true. If you are giving her everything she wants...then you're hers, and she's using you. If she stays with you....that's fine...but after so many years down the line, you will be unhappy....it might not even take years. The logic behing NOT giving a girl everything she wants is just like every single person in this world. Everyone in this world wants what they can't have....its as simple as that. You say you aren't going to 'be around too much'...but you will....you'll be insecure about losing her...its the way nice guys are. I dont know if there's a saying...but the LESS someone is around...the MORE you want them. Just like the ONE time you get to go to like a theme park a year, you're going to enjoy it soooo much cuz it only comes around ONCE a year(or less)....if you got to go to a theme park every day....then who would care...it would get boring. The same idea applies with men and women in dating and relationships.....spatz is right...I'm banging my head against a wall too b/c I don't know how I cant get you to understand this. Now, I'm not saying to ALWAYS be at her beck and call and become her willing slave doing everything she wants Yea you will....relationships are 50-50..but until you have been in one...you won't know that. The way you talk, you are giving me like the biggest signal that you will fail with a girl in a relationship b/c you are going to get her everything she wants. I don't care WHAT you SAY...you will do it....the first sign of her leaving, or getting bored with you....you will give in. A girl* is likely to take that as you not really being into her Okay...maybe there are more than I noticed at first. Another example of your unknown ideas of attraction b/c you don't have personal experience. Hell I even have MY example that is going on right now in life, from the 'rose' post. If you know her well enough, and flirt with her, and tease her....it won't matter...she's going to like you. Girls can get stuck on guys just like the guys do on girls. Guys just rush into it way too quickly and try to spring their feelings and scare girls off....and its usually not on purpose. Girls say that they want to be the 'focus' of your attention, when really....you need to have a life....a girlfriend is great...and so is dating...but they aren't your life. You're right, she could feel a little doubt in whether or not you really want to be with her...but that's her choice to accept that you still have a life outside of her. Most of the time though, that won't happen...b/c every girl has their own life too, their own girl friends, jobs....etc.... You arent offering any different viewpoints on dating there....girl's are just showing you that they are smarter than you when it comes to dating. Your views aren't 'new' to any girl....being nice isn't a new change of pace to a girl. "In touch with your emotions...and sensitive"....WOW...that took it....never say that out loud again.....girls can say 100 times over that they want a guy like that....but its not true. They want a MAN....no I dont mean some cold-hearted person....just ...don't say that again. Hah, and dont say a lot of males dont have those feelings...every single guy has them....we just don't show them....or I should say we hold them back b/c there are reasons. It won't help you in the long run....you don't even have a long run.....you need some experience ....now I've been complimented since I was young on how mature I am, much more mature than my age. My idea of a great time is having a meaningful, thoughtful, heart to heart conversation Guess who you remind me of? Not to brag or anything, but I think I would make an excellant boyfriend Wanna give it a guess again? This is an edit...and I'll say more on it if you want to think you're right..but again...GIRLS DON'T care how much you think you may make a GREAT b/f. You can tell her and coax her and try and convince her ALL you want, but she's not going to care how much you think you would make a good b/f. Hah...girls again....only care, what they feel...not how you feel for them. But I'll talk on this one....haha, dont even say you think you would make an excellent b/f. You haven't even dated....(according to you)....and just like anything in this world...you need some sort of experience. Most girls you will probably scare off w/ just the idea of never dating.....not to be mean...but its true. Do not ever say that again tho, and get it out of your head...you can't make an excellent b/f until you've made a man out of yourself first. God wow....you should just like go back like 5 years in age or something, then you and I woulda been best buds in HS with our ideas like that....lol Link to comment
Double J Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 ShySoul, You're under the impression that just because a guy likes to be unpredictable and tease, that he can't be a "true" nice guy. Just because a guy likes to keep a girl wondering a little does not mean that he's ruining his chances. I never said anything about sending signals that show you could care less, either. This is a "Dating" forum. Whether you want to admit it or not, the courting process IS like a game. Unless a girl is extremely conservative/religious-oriented, most girls are going to want a little challenge to spice things up. That's just how girls are - live with it. Remember something - Girls are different; they each have different motivations and interests, particularly at different stages in their lives. When girls are in their early twenties, they tend to want to have fun and not get so serious, yet when they reach their 30's, that's when they look towards making a family. Be mindful that not every girl, at your age, is looking for a guy with your type of personality. Some might be, but believe it or not, some actually want the type of guy that challenges them and isn't so easy to figure out. Thus, if you meet one of these one day, what are you going to do? Am I saying you should alter your personality to suit them? Absolutely not. But ShySoul, pouring your heart to a girl too soon is deadly. I did it back when I met my high school ex I mentioned in the other post, and that was the time that I thought being the nicest guy in the world was the ticket to getting women. Boy, was I wrong. In fact, there came a time that I started acting more aloof with her, not kissing her rear all the time, and that's when she told me something i'll never forget: "I like the way you're acting with me lately.." I was like "huh"? How could that be? It's now that I understand how girls LIKE to be challenged. You seem to have this idea of the "fairy tale romance of sweet caring guy that finds perfect girl with no flaws" in mind. Let me tell you something my friend - Just like the perfect guy doesn't exist, neither does the perfect girl. Someone said above that you're in a comfort zone and are being resistant to change. I agree. I used to be extremely shy too, and I still am to some degree. But I wouldn't have been able to gradually improve on becoming more extroverted without leaving the comfort box and taking risks. In order to be successful in life, you have to experience failure - it's inevitable. And since you really haven't had much experience in the dating department, you have yet to experience failure and you feel that you'll meet one special girl and that will be the end of it. It doesn't work this way - it's all about trial and error. You might have to go through maybe 20 women before you meet your "one." Even though you might hear many girls saying they want a "nice guy," you see many of them go and find guys who embody a set of qualities that completely contradict that. Understand that it's not about what YOU feel - it's about what women feel. Attraction isn't a choice - it's an emotional response. And being nice might help you gain affection from a girl, but it does nothing to spark attraction. Like I said before, being nice can be MIXED with being unpredictable - like giving her a small little gift when she least expects it. But giving her gifts all the time (a typical nice guy trait) is almost like buying her affection and yes, is a wussy thing to do. I think that the more beautiful a girl is, and the more she knows she's in demand, the more unpredictable and playful you should be. Why? Because by being nice and doing the typical things like buying her gifts and showering her with compliments, you're being like every typical guy. Being a bit challenging, teasing her, and showing her that you really don't care if she rejects you shows that you are comfortable with yourself, and that you will not cater to her every whim just because she was lucky enough to be blessed with good looks. I'll end this post talking about you and the online girl thing. I don't know if she's the first girl you've gotten close to online or not, or whether you've met online girls in person yet. But I have firsthand experience with this too. Have you spoken to this girl on the phone yet? Nearly every girl I've spoken to in instant message, i've connected with somehow. They've all liked talking to me. But you have to understand that online communication as opposed to in-person communication is completely different. It makes a world of a difference when you're actually in front of the other person and you're able to see their expressions and mannerisms. As for me, the majority of the girls I've met in person from the internet have had issues, ranging from being cheated on to being drama queens to girls that see shrinks. Out of 8 or 9 i've met offline, I've had a relationship with only one. But that's besides the point. You have to meet this girl in person as soon as possible to ascertain that there's chemistry, that she's sane, that her picture (if you've seen it) is really her, and so many other intangibles. I'm happy for you that you're using the internet as a medium to get experience, but like I said, everything is just a fantasy until you meet in real life. You could be talking to a 40 year old man that's just trying to pull a prank on someone, so that goes to show that text is just text. IMO, the best time to be a true nice guy is when you're already in a relationship with a girl. I stick to the notion that in the world of dating, being nice might get you a few points here and there, but it is not enough to land the girl. 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Caldus Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 I agree with the following things: - That you should never give a girl everything she wants. It's almost as if your whole world revolved around her and like LtAwesome said, everyone has their own busy and productive lives outside of dating. It makes the girl feel "suffocated" for lack of a better word and it also makes you seem like someone who doesn't have a life outside of the relationship. - Knowing that you're a very nice guy should not be the main reason that you "would make an excellent boyfriend". Make yourself interesting in one or more different ways. Give the girl a reason to date you instead of any other "nice guy" if you're going to claim that you're a "nice guy". Any guy can say that he is nice... - I think flirting techniques are important but they shouldn't be the only things you do in order to attract a girl. They should be attracted to you as well, not just your game if that makes any sense. Same goes for you. You should not just be physically attracted to her, but there also has to be some attraction to her as well. That's the essense of a good relationship if that's what you're looking for. God wow....you should just like go back like 5 years in age or something, then you and I woulda been best buds in HS with our ideas like that....lol Don't think this comment was really necessary though. It's almost as if you assume everything you said is correct and nothing else is correct. I agree with a lot of your points though. Everyone is going to play the game differently no matter what. So my advice to everyone is to get out there and get some experience and eventually you'll figure out your own game to play if that makes any sense. Link to comment
DropToZero Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Hmm....well thanks Caldus...but it wasn't meant to really be mean... I was being honest....I'm not saying people aren't allowed to have diff. viewpoints....that statement is honest to god true. If I knew him in HS....we would have probably been really good friends b/c of what we both believed. I was one of the few back then still defending that position....it wasn't really meant to be like a smart remark. Link to comment
ShySoul Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Wow, looks like I'm on the spot here with so many people wanting to comment on what I have to say. I'll start with Caldus and if I don't get to you tonight, I'll be back tomorrow. 8) I've already said that I wouldn't be suffocating, that I would make sure there is space and room to grow without each other around. By giving everything I mean being there to provide her with the support, understanding, and love that she needs. Those are the kinds of things that people want most from a relationship and those are the things I'm going to give. I mean, if she's running around asking for a gold ring, pearl necklace, always being taken to fancy resturants, I know better. But what's wrong with giving her all the support and love that she wants, especially if she's going through a lot of stress or hardships? Likewise, I would expect her to give me everything I want. Relationships involve fulfilling each others needs and desires in a way that other people can't. And the needs and desires I am referring to are such things as love, compassion, support, and understanding. I wasn't trying to say that the main reason I'd be a good boyfriend is because I am nice. I'd be a good boyfriend because of the total package. Note that I mentioned all those other qualities that I possess that girls are interested in. I have many facets to my personality and skills. But everything else being equal, it's that niceness that would put me ahead of someone who is going to play games and mess with a girls mind. That kind of behavior could very easily annoy a girl and hurt a guys chances. Being nice and honest lets all parties know where they stand. Here's my take on flirting, don't try to flirt or worry about techniques. Let it happen naturally. I say things that could be considered flattering, but I don't even try, they just come naturally. Today someone mentions they took a test and I automatically tell them that with their brains they aced it no problem. I'm being flattering, complimenting her, and saying something very sweet. That might not be the best example but it's the first thing I could think of and it's getting late here. The point is, saying sweet, thoughtful thinks like that will impress a girl and is a form of flattering. And there's nothing negative about it. Your also right that a girl should like you, not your "game." Having "game" will wear off eventually, but you can't hide your true self. And on physical attraction, focus instead on who the person is on the inside. When you see true inner beauty, it will reflect on the outside as well. Link to comment
ShySoul Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 spatzcolumbo, I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall. Really, these ideas aren't as complicated or difficult to grasp as you might think. Girls want nice guys, not jerks. Any mature female will agree with that. Girls are also tired of playing games, at least the good ones who are looking for a long term commitment. If you notice, all the people who are trying to agree for playing games and making girls wonder, are guys! Not a single girl has backed up anything you've said. Yet, if you go back through this post, about four girls respeonded and they all said they like the shy, nice guys. I've been on this site for almost eight months and I can recall several posts about girls wondering where all the nice guys are. But I don't think there has been one post from a girl wondering where all the game playing, mysterious, teasing, sometimes jerks are. If you guys aren't going to listen to me, try listening to the source of your frustrations, girls. I understand that not everyone like me is a jerk. In fact, I'll be the first to admit that we all have nice guy and jerk like qualities in us. No one is perfect and no one is one way all the time. But there are certain characteristics that clearly belong to one class or another. Someone who is nice, kind, considerate, listens to people, polite and a gentleman but who also stands up for himself and is willing to give people there space is what I call I true nice guy. I can't see that as being viewed as creepy. When I say jerk I refer to someone who will intentionally keep important things from people who should know them, intentionally say or do things that could be taken in a negative manner, intentionally ignore or not be there for a person when he or she needs you to be (especially if the goal is to maintain some air of mystery or display a sense of power), someone who isn't completely honest and keeps secrets for no good reason or just to keep the girl guessing. I'm leaving out the obvious things like don't abuse her because I don't think that's where the disagreement is. But how could these things be taken as fun and exciting? The bottom line that I'm getting at is intent. The true nice guy does what is right for the simply reason that it is right. He gives no thoght about whether this will impress girls (thats just a plesant side affect), he does things because it is the right thing to do. A jerk is someone who puts there own desires first and does something with their own benefits in mind. When you guys say to keep things from a girl because you keep the power in the relationship, thats placing yourself and your ego ahead of the needs of the girl, the good of the relationship, and what is right. Relationships aren't about power, control, or what you get out of it. It's about two people coming together. Actually, I do speak to my parents the same way I speak to friends, peers, relatives, etc. I am nice, polite and friendly whomever I am around. If I adapt to anything it is the topic. If I'm talking about politics or business then I am more serious. If I am talking about how the Patriots are a dynasty, I am more laid back. I am basically the same person, regardless of who I am dealing with. If you want to talk about games and power, why not make others adapt to me? Not that I'm like that, far from it. I've found a way to merge together the various aspects of my personality so that I don't need to do much adapting and still be appropriate to the situation. Finally, maybe I just have a completely different view on dating then everyone else. When I think relationship, it could be any kind of relationship. I have relationships with family, teachers, bosses, friends, peers, coworkers, etc. In my mind dating refers to specifically a romantic relationship. I consider dating and being in a relationship to be the same thing. Weird, yes. Different, I know. But it's my view and I'm sticking with it. Even if you want to say they are separate, games aren't as beneficial as you think. Here's what should be causing the anticipation, intersest, and excitement... getting to know each other. The excitement comes from each new experience together and learning more and more about each other. The anticpation is wondering what you are going to do together next and if and when your going to make it official. Learning new things about each other is like unwrapping a present and wondering whats inside, making eveyday feel like Christmas. All of this excitement can be gotten without ever having to play games, hold things back, be mysterious, etc. Link to comment
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