How to approach the dreaded talk

[ChiBrunette]

The time has come - my live in and I need to sit down and have a heart to heart about his daughter.

 

My son is by no means perfect. I'm well aware of this and I'll be the first to discipline him when caught in a lie, being mean to others, etc.

 

Onto my live in... We've had this talk before multiple times in the past, and they haven't gone over well. He says I "attack" his daughter....so I'm looking for advice on how to politely say, "Your kid is a bully". LOL

 

Background: We live together. My son is 6.5 and yes he can be sensitive and quiet. The live in believes that my son needs to man up and I failed in that department (I dont think its a big deal for boys to cry... Id rather raise a man that can show emotion than one that believes its wrong).

 

He feels theres something mentally wrong with my son because he enjoys Irish Step Dance (I'm Irish and Italian and working to pass our traditions down), and then because he can happily sit quietly by himself, building legos, drawing, or playing with his cars. According to him - this is why my son is the next Norman Bates.

 

Anyhow - he says my son is a "baby" because I coddle him and I enable him to act like one. Baby = Tears because Live ins daughter has taken over his toys, wont let him do anything, and basically threatens and bullys him.

 

I've brought this up in the past, stating things like, "I'm worried about A(my son) because B (his daughter) is constantly walking all over him. She's grown territorial, she's operating under whats mine is mine and whats yours is mine too, and I think we need to put her in her place and make her understand that she can't walk all over him".

 

Live in defends her up and down.

 

Then we have the talk of, "Listen. Every time I cook, B complains that she doesn't like it, why do I have to cook, why can't my dad cook becaues his food isn't gross, -its just rude and disrespectful and I'd appreciate it if you'd back me up a bit here".

 

Live in makes excuses. "Well she doesn't like that stuff" or "Thats different". - I get it... but at least make her try it. He demands my son eats the food he cooks that is foreign to him, and he does so without much of a complaint. (Greek specialities)

 

My breaking point came yesterday.

Little Ma'am thought no one was around, started yelling at my son, "Gimmie it" (referring to his favorite stuffed animal), when I walked in and I reminded her that we don't talk that way, and that it was his dog to sleep with, she rebuttled with, "Well he has two animals already, and I've always wanted this one so I'm sleeping with it". Not wanting to be mean, but not wanting to enable her to walk all over my son, I just again - politely explained that it was my sons and thats how he slept at night... they kept him from having bad dreams just like her group of animals.

 

Then ... (yes theres more, sorry - venting here).

She's recently decided that all of his toys are also hers, and so she can tell him when he can and cant play with them. He wanted to play with his cars, she told him no, then told him only these cars are yours (handed the ones she didnt want), and said he could play with those.

 

Then... My sons Christmas present was a flat screen tv last year (nothing big or fancy), but we leave it in the play room so the kids can share it. He isn't allowed to watch the shows he wants on there because she takes the remote and takes control, then threatens him (and why he listens, is beyond me). Yesterday he was complaining because he was tired of watching "EVER After" and "Monster High"

 

We've told him repeatedly she is not the boss and he needs to stand up to her, but he clearly doesn't have it in him, and I'm tired of watching her trample all over him.

 

Any suggestions on nice ways to say "Hey listen, your kids a brat and if you dont get her in check, you two are homeless"??

 

Love my live in, we're planning a wedding - but I wont sacrifice my sons well being or happiness so that I can be happy.

 

This little girl needs to be reigned in, and I just dont know how to explain that to him again, without causing a fight.

 

He always feels like I'm attacking his daughter, and thats not my intention. I try telling him up front that I love both of them, but she needs to be reigned in and held accountable. She needs boundaries... and when I do this - world war 3 breaks out because she's perfect. ....Le Sigh.

 

Any advice would be appreciated. LOL Short of banging my head into a wall I'm not sure how else to reword this for him without upsetting him.

[journeynow]

These types of issues can happen with siblings as well. However, if you two are pitting your kids against each other I don't see it working out.

[ChiBrunette]

I'd like them to be under one rule and not be against one another... I just can't seem to get the other parent on board with a solid set of rules that go accross the board for both kids. Thank You for the input!

[abitbroken]

This problem isn't about the kids - its about you two. Firstly, you call your guy a "live in." That doesn't sound like a very affectionate term. is he a roommate? Your boyfriend? Secondly, this young girl is acting out. She has a mom, but she lives with her dad's girlfriend who is not his wife. Who knows how long she will be around. Who knows if she is supposed to listen to her because she is unclear truly what the girlfriend is to her. The situation may not feel very secure to a child. Put yourself in her shoes. Your son deals by keeping to himself and she deals by acting out. And you guys don't belong living together with two kids without a commitment, but if you don't believe in that, at least a CLEAR CLEAR discussion before you move in what the parenting parameters are and slowly introducing the two and troubleshooting. Of course, he is going to defend his daughter. And you guys are not coparenting. its you and your son and he and his daughter.

 

Don't approach him about "needing to talk about his daughter" where he will get defensive. Instead, you need to have a discussion on how you are both allowed to discipline and what house rules you can come up with.

 

Also, you do coddle your son a little or more so you position him as vulnerable because instead of focusing on her not taking the dog because it is rude, you are telling her that he is needy - he has nightmares so he needs it. This little girl has needs as well. is there some need you can fill that she is crying out for? Honestly, you really should be teaching your son to speak up when someone does something he doesn't like and expressing his preferences. He doesn't need to play football or body slam her, but if he is so incredibly passive in every single thing, he WILL have difficulty as an adult. He can learn how to make peace verbally in his own way.

[journeynow]

I'd like them to be under one rule and not be against one another... I just can't seem to get the other parent on board with a solid set of rules that go accross the board for both kids. Thank You for the input!

 

You are two adults, with two different approaches so essentially you each have a board you want the other to get on. Neither is right or wrong. Just different.

[itsallgrand]

I'm not a parent nor a therapist, but it seems like the both of you are feeling threatened by each others kids.

They are just little kids. A little boy isn't a normal bates for being passive, and a little girl isn't a brat for being bossy.

The way I see it, it's just two kids trying to adapt to their circumstances.

 

It's almost like you two are taking stabs at each other but using the kids. Like he feels YOU are being too passive, and you feel like he too aggressive.

 

The grown ups need to settle their stuff and leave the kids out of it for now, is my opinion. If you can't get on the same team, the kids are both going to exploit the crap out of both of you. And that isn't good for anybody.

 

And if you are serious about being a family, it's shocking you would say - even in frustration - how to tell him to either slap down his kid or else basically get the hell out?!

[ParisPaulette]

Any suggestions on nice ways to say "Hey listen, your kids a brat and if you dont get her in check, you two are homeless"??

 

Sure. First and foremost you need to realize the psychological and emotional damage this is doing to your son living with people who are hostile to him. That's even worse than being bullied at school, since at home where he should feel safest and most secure and loved, he is instead being belittled and bullied by a man who isn't even his dad and a girl who isn't even his sister. All while Mom sits by and does nothing.

 

So you do this if you really want to be a great parent to your son and take his side and be there for him above and beyond your own selfish needs of wanting to live with a guy and his kid who are bullies. And yes I'm being harsh and no I'm not going to call it anything else--you are living with a grownup bully and surprise, surprise his daughter is taking his cues from him. She sees him bullying your kid, you doing nothing, what do you think she's going to do when the grownups are sending a clear message "It is totally acceptable to bully this kid."

 

Call a family meeting, tell both your bully of a boyfriend and his kid, while your son is sitting there, "I am tired of (son) being bullied by you two. If I see one more incident, if he complains, if either of you do not treat my son and me with the respect and love and gratitude we are due for even putting a roof over your heads then you both will be gone and I will pack your bags and I will set them outside the door and change the locks. This is not a topic for debate, this is not a "Oh, but we mean well," this is not a democracy and you do not get a vote. You either both straighten up and you treat my son and me right or you are gone. I will not state these terms again, you will either follow them or you will get out. Capice?" And then you get up and you take your son with you to another room and you talk to him about how sorry Mommy is she let him be bullied and that's all going to change.

 

They'll either fly right and step up to the plate or you can start packing their bags and learn the harsh lesson that when anyone tries to hurt your child either emotionally, verbally, physically or otherwise it is your job as the parent to defend them with teeth bared and a can of whup*ass ready to be opened. As a parent of three boys I know it's unpleasant sometimes. I once had half of my middle son's school against me for taking on my son's sports coach after I caught him bullying my son and other kids and my son was becoming borderline suicidal from it. So I wasn't popular, big freaking deal. I still got the coach fired and the kids someone who didn't think it was acceptable to scream curse words at 10-year-olds to "motivate" them. My (expletive

 

If you tolerate bullies and bullying in any way to your kids then the only thing they learn is there is something wrong with them and they deserve to be bullied. is that the family you think is acceptable for your son, because I--a total stranger--don't. And if you don't stop it and you don't speak up then you may as well be putting a sign on your kid's back that says, "Go ahead and bully my son, I just don't care enough about him to defend him or stop it. So feel free."

 

And yes, I know I'm being harsh, but as a single mom I have run men I would've loved a relationship with off for a whole lot less than what you described to me. I'm actually shocked you put up with it for this long. Don't put up with it any longer, not if you value your son at all. And guess what, that bullying will get turned on you too if it isn't already. Marrying that man will make thing a billion times worse.

[ParisPaulette]

Also, your kid isn't even 7 years old. It's ludicrous to put all of the "you handle this bullying" on to his shoulders pitting him against someone who is bigger, older and has a big, full grown adult in her corner, the dad, who probably scares your kid as well.

 

You don't handle bullies by insisting your kid be the one to do so. If that were the case, and the kids being picked on could handle bullies, don't you think that would already be the thing we'd all do anyways? Instead your kid just gets more and more upset, more and more intimidated, both he and your boyfriend's little girl know neither you or her father will interfere. And so it continues.

 

Instead of complaining about all the bad things she does the next time you see her with the TV remote, tell her to give it to your son, it's his TV. Also you pull her aside and you tell her to stop hogging all of his toys. You start taking control, it's your house, your son, his possessions. Why on earth you think you need "permission" to tell someone else to stop hurting your child is beyond me. It's a total absolute garbage myth that children "need" to learn to deal with bullies by just doing so while everyone else around them lets it happen. Right up there with the whole myth of "kids learn to swim by being dropped into a pool and either making it out or they drown" and "being whipped repeatedly makes a kid behave."

 

The media is full of kids who died or hurt others, because no one helped them when they needed help against a bully. If it were all so simple as "you go handle that bully you are terrified of" then don't you think bullying wouldn't be a problem. It makes about as much sense as someone telling you, "Go up and pet that dog that's snarling and foaming at the mouth and is big enough to rip out your throat, so that you handle him to not attack you."

 

In short, you need to stick up for your kid and stop letting yourself get bullied too.

[catfeeder]

We've had this talk before multiple times in the past, and they haven't gone over well.

 

What should this tell you?

[Hell_On_Heels]

I have to agree with what posters are saying about the relationship between you and your live in. That deserves some serious thought, and perhaps family counseling.

 

My first thought on your live in is that he's guilty for some reason, and so he refuses to discipline his daughter. This has to be something he comes to terms with. Any criticism, no matter how justified, will come accross as an attack. Instead of using names, take a theory approach. Instead of saying, "Mary stole Joe's stuffed animal," say something like, "How should we handle it when one of the kids is taking something that doesn't belong to them?"

 

And now for something truly unpleasant, and I'm sorry. Kids are born with little personalities all their own. They are just humans-in-training. Being a parent means providing as much training as you possibly can. Your job is to work yourself out of a job so that your child can live an independent, fulfilling life someday. This is the goal - and is extremely hard to accomplish.

 

With love and concern, and years of doing the exact same thing, I'll tell you bluntly that your son has to stand on his own two feet someday. That means he has to begin practicing now. From your post, I don't get the feeling you are letting your son cope with things on his own. When the girl wanted his stuffed animal, you didn't watch to see how your son would handle it. Instead you leapt in, all tiger mom fierceness (that I relate to completely!), and you handled it for him. Or tried to....chances are, your son saw you try, and saw or felt the fighting that came afterwards, and he may well decide that self-assertion is a negative thing.

 

I would ask that you think on this, on the long term effects for your son. It's his job to learn how to live life on his terms, and to figure out what those terms are. It's your job to allow him to learn, and to let him take the consequences both good and bad. It's also your job to keep those experiences within a relatively safe, secure scope. Although he's likely to be in a fistfight with another child before he's grown, you'll make sure that he's not being hit by adults, or cars, or trains, etc. in other words, you keep his world large and safe enough for him to grow, but not to be overwhelmed.

 

As I said above, this is extremely difficult, and requires constant tweeking of how big that world should be, based on your son's needs.

 

It's possible that your son didn't mind sharing his stuffed animal. It's possible it broke his heart. We don't know, because he wasn't really given time to react. Instead YOU reacted. You are the parent. You must act, never react. You must make tough instant decisions that benefit these children long-term. I promise you that it won't be dancing and Legos and reading that make your son emotionally weak. It will be from having his emotions and actions and decisions made for him.

 

I know. That was harsh.

 

I also know the nearly over-powering need to protect your baby. I also have a quiet son, geeky really. He is my youngest, and had a uber-aggressive older brother, and a very strong-minded older sister. It was my job to teach him to use his own voice for himself. It was my job to help him find his boundaries. It was not my job to save his toys, and I don't mean to sound flippant. Had I done a better job with that instead of protecting him so much, he might not be a drug addict today. The stakes are high. I'm so sorry.

 

...and, as you teach your son these things, the daughter requires the same lessons. It wasn't wrong for her to want the stuffed animal. How she went about it was wrong. Some lessons there on asking and being kind to get what you want might go a long way for her. You'd be teaching her to find her voice, too - her good voice, her effective voice.

 

If she isn't feeling safe or loved, she's going to act badly. She's going to fight for everything. You have the opportunity to show her how strong women behave. And your son will have to learn to deal with aggressive people at some point in his life. Why not now, when the stakes are a stuffed animal? If you wait until later, the stakes could be a job, or something else huge.

 

Sending you a warm hug, because this stuff isn't easy.