Why do I always get "blocked" by their girl friends?

[blueidealist24]

@blueidealist - did you ask her why she thought he was a creeper? The only experience I've ever had of friends doing that is when they'd had a run in or knew more about the guy than I did.

 

She had never met him before, but he looked a bit nerdy, although not unattractive. I think some nerdy looking guys are cute, but she didn't/I assume she still doesn't, although we kind of lost touch after college was over.

[Blue Spiral]

Here's a novel idea to enter into one of your threads: STOP TRYING TO PICK GRAPES IN AN APPLE ORCHARD.

 

Meet girls somewhere other than clubs/bars/pubs/dive bars/taverns/night life pick-up joints. There's a refreshing idea for you.

 

I think your man-translator is broken, so let me mansplain. When we say "socializing", we actually mean "finding women to get together with". And we're direct, logical, point-A-to-point-B thinkers, so we naturally go to bars and the like to find women. When you insert an unnecessary step between Point A and Point B--say, going to a meetup that revolves around something we couldn't care less about--we're going to get confused. I could be wrong, but I think that Dougie wants a girlfriend. Could he find one at some knitting- or cycling-related meetup? Perhaps...but how are people going to react when he tries to get together with every woman who will actually acknowledge his existence? You can do that in a bar; I'm guessing it'd make things uncomfortable in a meetup.

 

You want grapes, so you think that he wants grapes. But he wants apples, and he's going to a place that most men can find them. But he doesn't appear to be one of those men, so he needs to try something else. And I seriously doubt that "something else" will turn out to be a let's-all-have-fun-and-be-platonic excursion.

[tiredofvampires]

There's nothing wrong with my man-translator, and the evidence of that is that there are HUNDREDS (not dozens) of meetup groups in L.A. swarming with men, in every generalized social group and niche interest group that could possibly exist. Many of the groups are organized by men, in fact. And the word "socializing", used in many write-ups, is not gender specific -- it's co-ed.

 

If your theory were correct, these groups would only be populated by women; and men could only find girlfriends (grapes) in seedy clubs. Fact is, almost no men find their grapes in seedy clubs. So they look elsewhere. Look at all the MEN here on ENA who have passed age 25 who say they no longer look in clubs and bars, not if they want to meet someone.

 

Dougie can't get a single woman in a bar "to acknowledge his existence." So it's only up from there. In fact, they are using dextrous morse code to keep their friends away from him. He has told us a thousand scenarios where he's been shafted in one way or another. That's the kind of "girlfriend" material (grapes), and "acknowledgement" he's going to find there, if you look at his record combined with the types of women there.

 

So rather than look for grapes in a place where there are only catty, rude, let's-see-how-many-guys-notice-us-on-ladies'-night and see if one of them is hot enough to bang girls (apples), it'd be a far better idea to meet women who have interests that can be talked about, events to go to as a group where you can create familiarity that may lead to someone liking you for more than your pecs or having just the right kind of moves. You won't find those grapes in the apple places.

 

I see Dougie with someone who is sweet, fun, a bit of a geek or goofball, just a kind of girl-next-door who likes a few simple pleasures and hobbies -- not some hot babe with fake nails and skin-tight booty dresses who laughs and points at you accross a dance floor, and uses elaborate hand gestures to see if her friend approves.

 

I perused the L.A. meetup scene when I linked Dougie to the site, and I didn't see one knitting group. Cycling, maybe. But when you have a zillion other things to pick from, including dining and heavy metal, with memberships over a thousand strong of both sexes, all personality types, and ages, I don't think he'll have to resort to the rocking chair brigade.

 

I also don't think that Dougie is going to suddenly start coming on to every woman in sight at a meetup at a single go, as if a PUA grasshopper. (Right, Dougie?) I don't think he even did that at the bars.

 

Two HUGE things meetups have going for them that bars and clubs don't: 1. diversity/heterogeneous mix of women/personalities; and THAT DOUGIE HAS NOT DONE THIS BEFORE, REALLY (excluding the boardgame group, which is not as functional for interaction). Starting with platonic activities is the only way to meet people who normally wouldn't notice you, and build something from there. Certainly, if "acknowledging you exist" is the goal, he's going to get more of that validation in a group that welcomes everyone to the table and whose mission is forging member connections than in a bar where anyone can pull down their pants and take a figurative dump on your head.

 

He can keep doing the same thing over and over as he's done for years and lived to tell us about the many ways it's not working, or he can try something else. Doing something again and again expecting different results is called insanity. I'm proposing sanity.

 

I don't think it's my man-translator that's broken, it's that your where-would-I-find-relationship-material radar has been retired too long ago.

[Dragunov-21]

I'm just gonna leave this here to support the claim that Dougie might need to get more experience talking to women he might be interested in in a low-pressure environment first.

 

 

 

More a case of Dougie wants coconuts but is no good at climbing trees. I'm not sure that telling him to keep on straining to reach them is going to work out.

[Blue Spiral]

There's nothing wrong with my man-translator, and the evidence of that is that there are HUNDREDS (not dozens) of meetup groups in L.A. swarming with men, in every generalized social group and niche interest group that could possibly exist. Many of the groups are organized by men, in fact.

 

That's merely proof that dating is harder for men, and that men are forced to go to extreme measures to pursue women.

[Blue Spiral]

I'm just gonna leave this here to support the claim that Dougie might need to get more experience talking to women he might be interested in in a low-pressure environment first.

 

 

 

More a case of Dougie wants coconuts but is no good at climbing trees. I'm not sure that telling him to keep on straining to reach them is going to work out.

 

If he wants to do meetup stuff, more power to him. If he doesn't, I wouldn't blame him. I was similar to Dougie when I was younger...I kept trying (and failing) to develop my social skills, and it never got me what I wanted. Eventually, I figured out how to get sex without needing them, so they became unnecessary overall.

 

I understand what you're saying about a low-pressure environment, but I'm a linear, logical person. If you want something, go get it. Don't do something completely unrelated.

[tiredofvampires]

That's merely proof that dating is harder for men, and that men are forced to go to extreme measures to pursue women.

 

No, it's proof that I wanted to bring your attention to the fact that men seek male-female interactions in the places you've disparaged for that activity.

 

The actual ratio of women organizers seems to be about 50-50.

 

And I don't call bringing a group of like-minded people together, "extreme measures", regardless of the topic. I don't consider it "extreme measures" that there are Latin culture groups, Afro-American business networking groups, Russian language groups, and photography buff groups on meetup. I guess you could frame these people as desperate to find their own kind. I frame it as, people who don't ordinarily run into eachother making a point of doing so.

[tiredofvampires]

I was similar to Dougie when I was younger...I kept trying (and failing) to develop my social skills, and it never got me what I wanted. Eventually, I figured out how to get sex without needing them, so they became unnecessary overall.

 

I understand what you're saying about a low-pressure environment, but I'm a linear, logical person. If you want something, go get it. Don't do something completely unrelated.

 

Again, you're trying to superimpose your own story over the OP. Your choices and desires are not Dougie's, and even you have said you think Dougie wants a gf (which is not what you want). I think that's true. He also has a completely different personality from you -- he is not socially anxious, is gregarious, and enjoys friends, while you're an introvert and loner. So you can't just interchange yourself and him.

 

So while it may suit you to go straight for the efing, Dougie, like most people who are interested in a relationship developing, will gladly enjoy activities unrelated to efing -- both before and after that activity occurs.

 

To best help the OP, it would be good to work with his particular goals and personality, and remove your own lifestyle choices and preferences from the equation.

[Dragunov-21]

If he wants to do meetup stuff, more power to him. If he doesn't, I wouldn't blame him. I was similar to Dougie when I was younger...I kept trying (and failing) to develop my social skills, and it never got me what I wanted. Eventually, I figured out how to get sex without needing them, so they became unnecessary overall.

 

I understand what you're saying about a low-pressure environment, but I'm a linear, logical person. If you want something, go get it. Don't do something completely unrelated.

 

Continually repeating the same action, failing completely and expecting it to work eventually doesn't sound very logical.

[Blue Spiral]

TOV said:

 

"To best help the OP, it would be good to work with his particular goals and personality,"

 

...then why are you ignoring the things he likes to do, and telling him to do something that he didn't enjoy? By all means, work within his preference to go to bars and the like.

 

Dragunov-21 said:

 

"Continually repeating the same action, failing completely and expecting it to work eventually doesn't sound very logical."

 

I agree 100%. I think he should try something else, just not the "something" that TOV is suggesting.

[annie24]

...then why are you ignoring the things he likes to do, and telling him to do something that he didn't enjoy? By all means, work within his preference to go to bars and the like.

 

 

I'm a member of "happy hour meetups" - which obviously meet at bars and enjoy cheap drink specials. I highly support those.

 

In my former life, I used to live in Southern California and would go to clubs and bars with my girlfriends. We looked out for each other and didn't let each other talk to ... well, i have no other way to say it, guys who looked like losers. I remember being wasted on my 21st birthday, telling my roommate i wanted to make out with a guy who was standing in front of me. She's like, "No, he's not hot. Go make out with that guy over there." A guy who doesn't have a lot of charm, money, good looks, and/or fancy clothes isn't going to do so hot on the hookup bar scene there. We would "rescue" our friends from dancing with guys we thought were skeezy, or if a guy asked a friend to dance, and she said yes, but then was mouthing "HELP!!!". I guess this is where some guys might try to start learning PUA techniques, but I think they can only get you so far without the right clothes/look/money.

 

That's why another avenue might be worthwhile....

[tiredofvampires]

TOV said:

 

"To best help the OP, it would be good to work with his particular goals and personality,"

 

...then why are you ignoring the things he likes to do, and telling him to do something that he didn't enjoy? By all means, work within his preference to go to bars and the like.

 

I think there are plenty of things Dougie could enjoy doing with people, that put him in contact with women. His go-to being bars is not a personality or goal attribute, stamped into his being, it's a matter of having too narrow of a repertoire of how to enjoy people's company and connect with women. Thus, the hundreds of other choices for him to browse on meetup. I don't sense going to bars is something he prefers to all other things in life, it's just all he knows and has little experience with alternatives.

 

Experimentation is needed, and been there, done that, with the bars.

 

I think he should try something else, just not the "something" that TOV is suggesting.

 

I'm curious what that would be, because all I've heard you propose is more of the same that's got him nowhere, while grafting your methods onto a person who is an entirely different person (and mind you, Dougie has tried every method OTHER than meetups, too. It's pretty much the only thing he HASN'T done properly.)

 

Btw, it's not just my suggestion. Nearly all of ENA is suggesting it, including men.