When (how many dates in) to share childfree status with romantic interest

[potd2009]

Hey ENA. I'm a heterosexual woman in my late 20s who very firmly does not want children. I've felt very strongly about this since before I was ten years old, have never wavered in this conviction, and it is extremely unlikely that it will change. (I'm saying this so we can skip the "you're too young to know, because I/my best friend/these ten other women/men swore they didn't want kids in their twenties, but they changed their mind in their thirties and you will too!!1" bingo. Assume for purposes of this thread that I will never change my mind.)

 

I'm at the age where I - and most guys I date - are looking for a serious relationship, ideally leading to marriage. And statistically speaking, most men want children and thus are not LTR material for me (and vice versa). So the question is: how many dates in should we first discuss this topic? My sense is 3-6 dates in, depending on the person and our vibe: perhaps fewer dates if the topic can be raised casually, and more dates if it's more of a "serious" conversation about relationship wants. On one hand, I don't want to waste either my time or my dates' time by deferring when I bring up an instant dealbreaker. But on the other hand, I'm told that there are some guys who could go either way on the kids question (e.g., on OKC, a number of guys check the "doesn't have kids, but might want them" box, suggesting some greater degree of ambivalence than guys who check the "doesn't have kids, but wants them" box). In this case, it seems like it wouldn't hurt for us to get to know each other a bit better before discussing the topic.

 

Thoughts? For those of you who are very set that you either want or do not want kids, when do you raise this with dates to check if both people are on the same page? And if anyone has continued dating past the point where they realized that their partner wanted kids but they didn't (or vice versa), I'm curious to hear how those situations have ultimately worked out.

[Seraphim]

I would do it right away.

[nutbrownhare]

I've never wanted kids, but it's a question that's always been very easy to raise because I'm an illustrator working mainly in kids' books, and I'm also the eldest of a large family - so talking about kids and the fact that I've never wanted them, despite enjoying them, arises quite naturally. That's in the very early stages of a relationship, when talking about family and what I do for a living, rather than looking at the future of a relationship with someone I'm still getting to know. I think to lay something like that on the line, completely out of context, would be a bit freaky for the other person though!

 

It's never, ever, been an issue at all. There are plenty of guys around who DON'T want kids, even though they do want a committed relationship. Partly, I've found that if 'eyes meet accross a crowded room' I invariably seem to meet guys who have either never wanted children in the first place, or who have had their families, got divorced and don't want to go through the fatherhood thing again. I've never had a relationship with a guy who wanted kids with me - and now it's too late anyway, even if I'd wanted them and was able to have them. In earlier years, it would have been a dealbreaker at a very early stage, but it just never happened.

 

Hope this helps!

[LadyJD]

If you have an online dating profile that allows you to state it explicitly like I know that OKC and link removed do, put it right out there. I really want kids and I appreciate it when a guy I would otherwise be interested in has it right out there on his profile so I don't waste my time or his messaging him.

 

For non-internet dating - I'd say about 5-6 dates in sounds right. I notice I tend to rule out people as partners on the first date, or around the 4th-5th.

[Throwaway999]

And statistically speaking, most men want children and thus are not LTR material for me (and vice versa).

 

...

 

But on the other hand, I'm told that there are some guys who could go either way on the kids question (e.g., on OKC, a number of guys check the "doesn't have kids, but might want them" box, suggesting some greater degree of ambivalence than guys who check the "doesn't have kids, but wants them" box). In this case, it seems like it wouldn't hurt for us to get to know each other a bit better before discussing the topic.

 

I'd say the number of men who don't want children, or who would be fine with never having them, may be higher than you think. I think a lot of guys are under the impression that a woman's every decision is determined by her loudly ticking biological clock. Since it is so hard for guys to even get a response when online dating, some are probably being vague in the hopes of casting a wider net. If they state firmly that they don't want kids, then they probably figure they'll kill what little chances they had of ever hearing from a woman.

 

It's never, ever, been an issue at all. There are plenty of guys around who DON'T want kids, even though they do want a committed relationship.

 

^ what she said.

 

For what it's worth (not much), I was always pretty ambivalent about starting a family. I was never super gung-ho about having kids, but I suppose if I had found the right woman that I was head over heels for, and SHE really wanted them, I might have changed my tune. But since that never happened, that's fine too. There are probably women who feel the same way, but the cultural expectation is that women want to make babies...

[shellyf62]

I would do it right away.

 

I agree with Victoria. What is the point of having multiple dates with a guy & finding you really like him, but then finding out he is adamant about having children.

Seems like a huge waste of both of your time and energy

[Seraphim]

I agree with Victoria. What is the point of having multiple dates with a guy & finding you really like him, but then finding out he is adamant about having children.

Seems like a huge waste of both of your time and energy

 

That is what I was thinking. No point in wasting your time on people who don't meet your criteria.

[potd2009]

Thanks, all, for the responses. On OKC, I've been looking at guys in the "doesn't have kids, but might want them" and "don't have kids and doesn't want them" categories. I won't waste my time messaging someone who is firm on the "wants them" front. In terms of my own profile, I don't list a response to the kids question on the main page, but in my publicly viewable answers to questions, I state clearly and repeatedly that I have never wanted kids and am a poor fit for someone who knows they want a family.

 

So in other words:

If the guy is explicit that he doesn't want kids: I'll usually actually confirm this on the first date. It usually leads to much high-fiving and connection, and usually we both feel great to find a kindred spirit even if we aren't a good romantic fit.

If the guy is explicit that he does want kids, whether online or on an early date (if we didn't meet online): I'll immediately state my position, which usually leads to things ending that day or shortly afterwards.

 

But it's the ambivalent guys - like the ones Hazlewood describes - that I'm less certain what to do with. The demographic I'm considering is 25-35 single hetero men, never married, no existing kids. I suspect that there are some "ambivalent" guys in this demographic who ultimately WOULD be open to partnering with someone who doesn't want kids ever, especially once they've worked out that they really like the woman. But I wonder if some of these "ambivalent" guys might be scared off at the outset by a woman being very clear that she doesn't want kids ... not because they definitely do, but because they aren't yet ready to rule out the option, particularly not for the sake of entering into a relationship with a woman whom they're just getting to know. So for these guys, I'm wondering whether to get a few more dates into the process before having this conversation. Am I thinking through this wrongly?

[Batya33]

Right away -agree with this.

[Seraphim]

If you scare them off because they might want kids in the future they weren't really the guy for you anyway were they? So it doesn't really matter.

[potd2009]

Actually, no. To give an example of what I mean: one of my friends and his husband met on Match a few years ago. At the time, they were both in their late 20s and they both thought they might want kids some day, so they checked "not sure." For both of them, at that point, it would have been a dealbreaker for them to see someone who stated that they categorically did not want kids, just because they would have been scared to rule the option out. But, two or three years into their relationship with each other and still pre-marriage, they discussed the topic again and both agreed that they were now firm that they did not want kids at all, ever. They've since married, another couple of years have passed, and they are now very firm that they are childfree.

 

This is an example of the sort of guy I don't want to rule out or to rule me out (sexual orientation aside). If I met the straight equivalent of my friend or his husband, and we were good for each other in every other way, it'd be a crying shame if we ruled each other out on the mere theory that the guy might someday want to have kids, if he is ultimately going to come around to the childfree side on his own anyway.

 

Now this wouldn't be an issue if childfree, never-married, single straight guys were a dime a dozen. In this case, I could happily rule out all the ambivalent/uncertain ones and have my pick of the assuredly childfree ones. But there are very, very few fully childfree guys out there. (And, at least on OKC in my liberal area, guys who list themselves as childfree in many cases have "alternative" lifestyles or identities that make them poor matches for me - e.g., sexually submissive guys, polyamorous, FTM, etc.)

[Seraphim]

But would you want to invest a few years in somebody to maybe eventually get around to the idea that they don't want kids? Because they could maybe possibly eventually get around to the idea that they actually do want kids too. And then what you've invested something like five years.

[TheD87]

I would want to know relatively early on. Although I was raised with my uncle and family telling me to never date someone that you don't think you could marry. So I would want to know about potential deal-breakers early on and that is something that could be a deal breaker to some.