OptomisticGirl Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 No it's not the same. It might not be as good as having an actual father but it can still be good. I only know two girls who are childhood friends of mine who grew up without fathers. One girls mother got a new boyfriend when she was around 5 or 6. She never married him and interestingly he never moved in with her even though they've been together for over 20 years now. My friend loves him and he even walked her down the aisle when she married 3 years ago. She says he's not exactly like a father to her but he's a great guy, he was always there for her and she was glad to have him around when she was growing up. She even lets her baby daughter call him grandad. It might not have been perfect but it was still pretty good. This is my experience with my uncle. Simply because you are someone's BIOLOGICAL father doesn't make you a 'dad' or automatically gives you that dad relationship with your child. My uncle walked me down the aisle last October and even at the age of 8 I knew he would be the one walking me down, not my biological father. Link to comment
gingerlemon Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 I think some of my fundamental unease about it is the concept of side lining men in reproductive processes. Sure, men donate sperm voluntarily. But I think it does something with the whole child raising institution when you say that women can just do it solo, which I'm very uncomfortable about. I think that disengaging a whole gender from the reproductive process is very questionable. To turn its on its head, what if men could just start to have children and raise them without the involvement of women at all (bar the donation of eggs)? Is everyone comfortable with that idea? Link to comment
OptomisticGirl Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 To turn its on its head, what if men could just start to have children and raise them without the involvement of women at all (bar the donation of eggs)? Is everyone comfortable with that idea? I don't care how people become parents - natural, IVF, sperm, surrogacy - as long as they can financially and emotionally take care of the child. Many men carry on with parenting after a wife/partner dies very early on in the child's life. Are they less of a parent simply for going at it alone compared to the traditional 'nuclear' family? Link to comment
Saffron_ Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 To turn its on its head, what if men could just start to have children and raise them without the involvement of women at all (bar the donation of eggs)? Is everyone comfortable with that idea? Who says these women are raising children without the involvement of men at all? What do you mean "if they could"? The already can. Single men are allowed to adopt and foster. Gay couples are able to have babies via surrogates. It does happen. Link to comment
Seraphim Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 OG, Saffron, you are talking about women who had relationships with their child's father. A father they intended to have in a child's life, however it did not work out for whatever reason. It is different than going to a sperm bank and having a child just because you want one. I think once people resort to sperm banks they are desperate for a baby and not so much how this kid will grow up. Link to comment
OptomisticGirl Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 OG, Saffron, you are talking about women who had relationship's with their child's father. A father they intended to have in a child's life, however it did not work out for whatever reason. It is different than going to a sperm bank and having a child just because you want one. I think once people resort to sperm and banks they are desperate for a baby and not so much how this kid will grow up. I don't think all the people who go to sperm banks - not 'resort' as it's not something just anyone can do because of the sheer cost - are desperate to have a child. If they can give the child a financially okay upbringing and give them all the emotional support they need, I think they are looking at how the kid will grow up. However I don't think the biological father HAS to be in the picturefor a child to have a happy, healthy upbringing. I certainly would have been better off if I'd never known mine. As I said, any man can be a FATHER but it takes someone special to be a DAD. You don't have to have the same blood to be called dad. Link to comment
Saffron_ Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 OG, Saffron, you are talking about women who had relationships with their child's father. A father they intended to have in a child's life, however it did not work out for whatever reason. It is different than going to a sperm bank and having a child just because you want one. I think once people resort to sperm banks they are desperate for a baby and not so much how this kid will grow up. And what do you think will be the problem with the way their child grows up Vic? Ultimately, everyone who chooses to have a child has one simply because they want one. Some people put lots of thought into it. Some, none whatsoever. Actually I think a woman that chooses sperm donation is more likely to have though the decision through very thoroughly. She's probably prepared herself financially, made decisions regarding her career and childcare and whatsmore, the child she has will really be wanted. Link to comment
Seraphim Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I don't think all the people who go to sperm banks - not 'resort' as it's not something just anyone can do because of the sheer cost - are desperate to have a child. If they can give the child a financially okay upbringing and give them all the emotional support they need, I think they are looking at how the kid will grow up. However I don't think the biological father HAS to be in the picturefor a child to have a happy, healthy upbringing. I certainly would have been better off if I'd never known mine. As I said, any man can be a FATHER but it takes someone special to be a DAD. You don't have to have the same blood to be called dad. I am not saying someone HAS to be a biological father to be the RIGHT father. You are misunderstanding me. I am saying there should be a father that lives WITH the child whether biological or not. Link to comment
Seraphim Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 And what do you think will be the problem with the way their child grows up Vic? Without two parents you are missing things vital in socialization. You can not learn how to be a man from a woman and a woman can not learn how to be a woman from a man. Link to comment
OptomisticGirl Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I am not saying someone HAS to be a biological father to be the RIGHT father. You are misunderstanding me. I am saying there should be a father that lives WITH the child whether biological or not. Who whose to say this mother who goes to the sperm bank doesn't find a man 5 years after she gives birth? I personally don't think a man has to be IN the house to have a good influence. Link to comment
Seraphim Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Who whose to say this mother who goes to the sperm bank doesn't find a man 5 years after she gives birth? I personally don't think a man has to be IN the house to have a good influence. In 5 years a child's personality is almost completely formed. You are pretty much who you are going to be by then, other than fine tweeking. The years 0 to 5 make or break who a person is. Link to comment
Saffron_ Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Without two parents you are missing things vital in socialization. You can not learn how to be a man from a woman and a woman can not learn how to be a woman from a man. So do you think people out there who have grown up in single parent households for whatever reason are not proper men and women? Link to comment
Seraphim Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 So do you think people out there who have grown up in single parent households for whatever reason are not proper men and women? I am not saying not proper. You are misunderstanding. I am saying they missed out on some vital things. Link to comment
OptomisticGirl Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 In 5 years a child's personality is almost completely formed. You are pretty much who you are going to be by then, other than fine tweeking. The years 0 to 5 make or break who a person is. A person's personality is not based on whether they were raised by a man/woman vs. man vs. woman. You are born with your personality and you grow up with it - it is not something that is 'learned' from the same sex. If that were the case there would be no murders or rapists born to a nuclear family and the entire world would be one big Utopia. Link to comment
Seraphim Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 A person's personality is not based on whether they were raised by a man/woman vs. man vs. woman. You are born with your personality and you grow up with it - it is not something that is 'learned' from the same sex. If that were the case there would be no murders or rapists born to a nuclear family and the entire world would be one big Utopia. You are not understanding me in the least. That is not what I said. Link to comment
OptomisticGirl Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I am not saying not proper. You are misunderstanding. I am saying they missed out on some vital things. Eveyrone misses out on 'vital' things. I missed out on a vital healthy upbringing. Even without that healthy upbrining and being surrounded by screaming, yelling, arguing, hitting, being molested I turned into a very well rounded person (I'd like to think). How you are raised is not what defines you - how you DEAL with being raised that way is. Link to comment
OptomisticGirl Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 You are not understanding me in the least. That is not what I said. Then I ask that you clarify Vic becuase that's what I took from your statement, that a child NEEDS a member of the opposite sex before the age of 5 because that's the time their personality grows. Link to comment
Batya33 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I decided not to because it was against my personal values and morals and a bad idea on a practical level too. It was a really hard decision because there was a real risk that I'd miss the opportunity to be a mother biologically (I might have adopted later on). Link to comment
Seraphim Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 You all are still not understanding me so I won't explain further. OG, you can think that everyone is like you or me and can overcome abuse and neglect and that they won't feel cheated, but I can tell you there millions upon millions upon millions who don't turn out like you or me and ARE defined by how they were raised. OK. And yes, everyone is defned by how they are raised, I can guarantee it. You will believe me when you see yourself do something exactly like either one of your parents. Trust me. Link to comment
Saffron_ Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I am not saying not proper. You are misunderstanding. I am saying they missed out on some vital things. Perhaps if you grow up in a vacuum. Maybe if there's no family around it could be detrimental to the child. On the other had, if a child's born into a close loving family, I can't see how they wouldn't be socialised... Link to comment
JonasWaingaro Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Well unless you grew up in a single parent home you can't really understand what that's like. I did and would never knowingly do that to a child. It's not a great way to grow up. My mom did her best, but not having a father around or a relationship with one wasn't good. I grew up watching the other kids being around two parents. That's difficult to understand as a kid. As to a 'father' figure that's fine and dandy but not the same, especially if that person isn't in the same house. Frankly I didn't have a great childhood because my parents split up when I was 4. I missed a lot and indeed have issues as a result. Sure I turned out well, I'm a good person. But I went through a lot of hurt and confusion growing up, and had to grew up way way way too fast. I just think it's irresponsible to knowingly bring a child into the world in a single parent environment, probably a bit selfish as well. Link to comment
Batya33 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 "I just think it's irresponsible to knowingly bring a child into the world in a single parent environment, probably a bit selfish as well." That's why I didn't do it despite being tempted because of my age. I especially credit my family for being supportive of my internal conflict and helping me come to that decision in a thoughtful way, without lecturing, condescending, etc. My mother especially wanted me to get to be a mom but helped me see that it wasn't fair to do it the sperm bank way. Link to comment
OptomisticGirl Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 You all are still not understanding me so I won't explain further. OG, you can think that everyone is like you or me and can overcome abuse and neglect and that they won't feel cheated, but I can tell you there millions upon millions upon millions who don't turn out like you or me and ARE defined by how they were raised. OK. And yes, everyone is defned by how they are raised, I can guarantee it. You will believe me when you see yourself do something exactly like either one of your parents. Trust me. I'm well aware there many people who are defined by how they were raised - the point is that is THEIR hang up, not their parents. Let me rephrase. We are all defined by how we are raised but not everyone lets it be the SOLE deifintion of who they are as an adult. However I have a very odd out look on life in that most people blame others for their problems when they just need to realize poo happens and move on, but that's me. i never said people wouldn't do things their parents did - that's pretty absurd to say - but it's all about being raised with love vs. no love. Link to comment
Saffron_ Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I confess I didn't grow up in a single parent household so I don't know what it's like. I can only go by what my friends have told me based on their experiences. They had very happy childhoods but then one of them had a solid father figure (from the age of 5) and the other one had a very close tight knit family all living within a mile of each other. Maybe in their cases that made the difference. Also, maybe because you had a two parent family for a while then lost it when you were 4, maybe that contributed to your unhappiness. That's a harsh reality for a young child. Being born into a single parent family might be different though (incidentally my friend lost her biological dad as a baby so maybe not being able to remember his loss made a difference). We all have different experiences. A two parent household can produce kids just as unhappy as a single parent household can. Link to comment
JonasWaingaro Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Absolutely, a nuclear family doesn't guarantee happiness, not at all. Everyone goes through things growing up - everyone. But a single family home has different pressures, including societal. I would also say my mom had to give up a lot to raise a child alone. It couldn't have been easy. In fact I know it wasn't easy - nor cheap. I did have a close knit family around me. I was around family a lot. It's not the same. Even being around cousins with both parents brought up the obvious to me. So I don't know. Oh, and I didn't say it was an unhappy childhood just not great. I was more or less a happy kid. Kinda goofy and a bit 'out there'. I'm the kid that talked to strangers! haha Still do. I agree starting out as having only one parent would be different. It would also introduce strangeness I think. Instead of being the expression of love between two people, that child would be an expression of self-desire to have a child at all costs. Seems a weird place to be as a kid. At least to me. Sure my parents split up but I knew I was the result of a loving relationship. Link to comment
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