Nick Lansing Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Great reply, thanks. If my BU was because of my neglect, then NC is the very last thing I should do now. I should be maintaining a light form of contact...?? Finding subtle ways to show change and quite possibly taking rejection after rejection in terms of her silence as response. But then I risk her losing attraction in me in the process of not giving up. If I just plain giving up then it simply comes accross as NC to her and confirms her perceptions of my not showing feelings. ---------------Catch 22. Wow, dont we all feel lost. Jim, I have been in this position. I think you do have to let her know you realize what you did wrong and that you're sorry, and ask for another chance, but after that you need to check out. Let that idea marinate in he head. It will take time. You've spoken your peace, now leave it alone. If you push it now, it comes accross as desperate and inauthentic ("Oh, of COURSE he's saying that now... whatever it takes to get me back. Sorry, too late!"). Get the message out there, then demonstrate your sincerity by respecting her wish that you leave her alone. Don't contact her at all; be polite if she contacts you. Heal up. It will take a few months. Know that you are doing the right thing., even if it doesn't seem like it at the time. And if she were to come back before you were healed, you wouldn't really be able to deal. Once you're healed, you probably won't care if she comes back or not, but in my experience, that's the only time they do come back... I think they understand intuitively that taking you back when you're begging and/or hurting is a bad play, as at that time you'll say anything, promise anything, for that chance at reconciliation, but it's unlikely to stick. They realize you're acting out of desperation, even if your feelings are sincere. Not to mention you need to give your ex time and space to work through their issues, wheher it be a new relationship or whatever. Link to comment
Jim Wormold Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Women want men who are strong. Agreed. But I think you and I come from different approaches to life. I like to discuss, you prefer to say "oh well, her problem". For me thats a recipe for disaster, because one will only land up with the same old issues from one failed relationship to the next. You came to the forum to learn about emotions, right? My father is useless at emotions and taking responsibly for his actions. To my mind, he is a loser because of that. Charming with the ladies yes, but really utterly immature. And bitter. Blames the world him around him for everything. It only comes accross as sad. Failed marriage of course after us kids left the house. Counseling, him?? Youve got to be kidding. Loser. I enjoy discussing and learning - please dont automatically take it as me begging her for things. Link to comment
Fun Boater 1 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Think you are on the wrong forum. And frankly, I am shocked at the amount of pathetic loser sexist drivel I have had to read today. Get over yourselves - its a two way street. Sexist drivel? Apparently you missed my last line about this logic being applied to BOTH genders - suggesting the whole "two-way street" concept. Link to comment
LastMan Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Its puts in your head that no matter how you perform in a relationship she could still leave you for someone else at the drop of a hat. You SHOULD have this in your head. Because it is the truth. Once you come to terms with it, you will start approaching life, women, and happiness in a new light. You will learn the power of WALKING AWAY from bad situations. Link to comment
johnnyp Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Wow! Just...wow! I'm sure the OP has been though some rough times to get to such a bad place, but to come up with such a flawless "how to mess up EVERY future relationship and stay stressed in the meantime" manifesto as this takes some doing. I posted a thread recently about how important it is to forgive the person that dumped you, so that you can move on and it got barely any views or comments and now this thread appears...seems like most people at ENA are only interested in either hating their ex or desperately hanging their happiness on the thought of them coming back, instead of just letting go, working on themselves and seeing what tomorrow brings...which funnily enough is how you could probably truly get your ex back. Such a shame! Link to comment
Fun Boater 1 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Very well said, LastMan. These guys refusing to accept this wisdom just don't get it. Attraction is a very different animal than relationships. The "Catch22" is that attraction is required, and must be maintained, to preserve and grow the relationship. Link to comment
Jim Wormold Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Hi Nick! Thanks for your encouraging comment. I think I was so concerned my letter would come accross as begging recently, that I didnt actually say sorry or say that what I did was wrong. There have been a series of misunderstandings in the post BU period - things I did unthinkingly that she may have taken wrongly that I tried to clear those things up in a not too serious way. We havent really had a chance to talk about the actual break up. But I did say sorry for being so cold soon after the break up. I was clear for once about my feelings for her in my letter though. My communication needs addressing and I can see how it influences the rest of my life in general. As you say leave it for now, which I will. Good to know keeping a distance for now is ok. Thanks again! Link to comment
LastMan Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Wow! Just...wow! I'm sure the OP has been though some rough times to get to such a bad place, but to come up with such a flawless "how to mess up EVERY future relationship and stay stressed in the meantime" manifesto as this takes some doing. I posted a thread recently about how important it is to forgive the person that dumped you, so that you can move on and it got barely any views or comments and now this thread appears...seems like most people at ENA are only interested in either hating their ex or desperately hanging their happiness on the thought of them coming back, instead of just letting go, working on themselves and seeing what tomorrow brings...which funnily enough is how you could probably truly get your ex back. Such a shame! When did I ever advocate hating your ex? Letting go and working on yourself is exactly what I'm trying to convey here. Part of doing that is accepting women for what they are, and to stop turning to them for happiness. When you are happy with yourself and can stand on your own two feet, then and only then will you be in a position to have a relationship where YOU hold the power. If a woman has all the power in a relationship, then you are in for a world of pain, despair, and discontent. Link to comment
Fun Boater 1 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Like it or not Raaawr, it is the truth. It's been my experience over the years. And like LastMan says, once I came to terms with it, I've been alot happier and less stressed over the trivial difficulties that arise in relationships. Link to comment
LastMan Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Very well said, LastMan. These guys refusing to accept this wisdom just don't get it. Attraction is a very different animal than relationships. The "Catch22" is that attraction is required, and must be maintained, to preserve and grow the relationship. Precisely. Men often fall into the trap of becoming too comfortable in their relationships. They think everything is going smoothly, but in reality the woman is growing bored with you. When she finally breaks it off, you feel like you must do everything in your power to keep her interested. The ironic thing is that by trying to appease her and make up for all the things you did wrong in the relationship, you are steadily chipping away at whatever attraction she once had for you. The best advice I can give to those who want to remain "the catch" in a relationship is to always have a life outside of her. Don't be too available, be full of surprises, and make sure she knows that you are willing to leave the relationship if your needs are not being met. Link to comment
Raaawr Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Like it or not Raaawr, it is the truth. It's been my experience over the years. And like LastMan says, once I came to terms with it, I've been alot happier and less stressed over the trivial difficulties that arise in relationships. Your experience. This Your is very important. Im glad it worked for you. It didnt work for me the first time and it wont work for me the 2nd time so having someone come on here and shout down what everyone is trying to do with their relationships is just blatant idiocy. Not to mention the sheer sexism of it. Honestly if you cant look back at a relationship and realise you helped contribute to your situation you really got to step back and have a look at yourself. What about the women who are on here torn up about their ex? Did they deserve this because they are part of this "all woman" group who adhere to these rules? Link to comment
Fun Boater 1 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 The best advice I can give to those who want to remain "the catch" in a relationship is to always have a life outside of her. Don't be too available, be full of surprises, and make sure she knows that you are willing to leave the relationship if your needs are not being met. Pretty straightforward concept. How can anyone interpret this as being "sexist" or "misogynistic", I don't understand. It isn't about viewing women as inferior or being a jerk towards them. It's about understanding how attraction works. In short, it's about leadership. A confident and secure man always takes the leadership role in a relationship - without exception. Link to comment
Fun Boater 1 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Your experience. This Your is very important. Im glad it worked for you. It didnt work for me the first time and it wont work for me the 2nd time so having someone come on here and shout down what everyone is trying to do with their relationships is just blatant idiocy. Not to mention the sheer sexism of it. Honestly if you cant look back at a relationship and realise you helped contribute to your situation you really got to step back and have a look at yourself. What about the women who are on here torn up about their ex? Did they deserve this because they are part of this "all woman" group who adhere to these rules? No one is suggesting that men don't make mistakes in their relationships. No one is suggesting that men are superior to women when it comes to relationships. All that's being advocated is the realization that it's important to understand the dynamics of attraction and how it applies to relationships. There are no set "rules". However, there are obvious behaviors that affect this dynamic. Behaviors that should be avoided and behaviors that should be practiced if you want to obtain the desired results. No one is shouting down" anyone for what they are posting about. People come on here seeking advice on how to get their ex back. I've seen alot of awesome advice and insight given. Often times, the advice and insight provided are not the answers the poster is looking to hear. This is not "shouting down" by any means. If you don't want honest and unbiased input from total strangers based on the story you've told us, then dont' ask for it, only to criticize it and call people "idiots" and "sexists". Take the responses at face value and do what you want with the information. Link to comment
Eocsor Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 To be honest, this sounds like a bunch of high school boys discussing what a relationship should be like. Good luck translating this into a relationship that will last a lifetime. If all you are trying to do is impress some chick enough to keep her around for a year or two it might work. But as far as a commited, mature realtionship, not so much. You should probably stick to dating teenage girls who are impressed with false bravado. Link to comment
LastMan Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Your experience. This Your is very important. Im glad it worked for you. It didnt work for me the first time and it wont work for me the 2nd time so having someone come on here and shout down what everyone is trying to do with their relationships is just blatant idiocy. Not to mention the sheer sexism of it. Honestly if you cant look back at a relationship and realise you helped contribute to your situation you really got to step back and have a look at yourself. What about the women who are on here torn up about their ex? Did they deserve this because they are part of this "all woman" group who adhere to these rules? In my very first post I pointed out that loss of attraction was the reason she ended the relationship. OF COURSE the man contributed to that loss of attraction. That's my whole point. Once it is lost, you can't do anything to bring it back. You have to suck it up, learn from the experience, and walk away. The intent of this thread is to prevent men from causing further pain in their lives by chasing after a woman they have history with that is no longer reciprocating. The only way a relationship can be rebuilt is through reigniting interest and attraction. If you hang around and try to "win" her back, you will never accomplish that. Link to comment
Fun Boater 1 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 In my very first post I pointed out that loss of attraction was the reason she ended the relationship. OF COURSE the man contributed to that loss of attraction. That's my whole point. Once it is lost, you can't do anything to bring it back. You have to suck it up, learn from the experience, and walk away. The intent of this thread is to prevent men from causing further pain in their lives by chasing after a woman they have history with that is no longer reciprocating. The only way a relationship can be rebuilt is through reigniting interest and attraction. If you hang around and try to "win" her back, you will never accomplish that. EXACTLY! And the only way relationships grow into "mature and committed" long term ones are if the element of attraction is maintained. It's got nothing to do with "false bravado". These elements of attraction remain the same for girls who are 18, 28, 38, 48...and even older. In fact, I think the older a woman gets, the more she desires a confident, secure, and leading man. Link to comment
Blue Spiral Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Full disclosure: I don't believe in NC, as I'm not a big fan of taking things to extremes. Full disclosure #2: Likewise, saying that "all ______ are ______" is behavior that invariably ends in "-ism." Humans are tribal creatures, so we tend to apply group behavior to individuals. Maybe it's true, and maybe it isn't, but it's insulting either way. Judge based on individual behavior, not group behavior. That said, I think it's entirely valid to discuss group behavior as a subject, as long as you're not trying to shoehorn people into molds. Obviously, power corrupts, and I'm guessing that 60-80% of women match the OP's description. When men had sexual power in the past, we heavily abused it. Women now have a more civilized form of sexual power, and they're naturally taking advantage. We'd do (and did) the same thing in their position. Areas in which I agree with the OP: yes, women tend to have a new option lined up before letting go of their current one. (That's because they have the power to do that--most non-alpha-males don't.) Yes, human beings should never depend on just one other human being for happiness and purpose. We're way too unstable and unpredictable for that. Whether that means serial monogamy with emotional overlap, FWBs, polyamory, whatever, it's up to the individual to decide how best to protect themselves. I'm in regular contact with my exes. I love them, and I sympathize with their situations. Also, though I really shouldn't, I give them support even when they treat me callously: this is usually without them realizing they're doing it, as they're used to getting away with everything, and not being called on anything, since they're attractive. Are they using me? Absolutely, but I do care about their well-being, and I can help them without crossing any dignity-shattering lines. But I don't want to be in a relationship with them again, because of their faults and my own. I'm not capable of monogamy, and they don't know what they want in life from moment to moment. Men tend to be slaves to physical urges; women tend to be slaves to emotional urges. I agree, many women are in love with how they feel about someone, and that's obviously liable to change. Link to comment
Saffron_ Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 When women break up with men after a long term relationship, it's because they lost interest and attraction in you. True of MEN It didn't happen "out of the blue". She had emotionally divorced herself from you months or weeks earlier. True of MEN. She doesn't miss you. She doesn't care about your feelings. If she contacts you, it's only to make sure that you are still a miserable wreck. She gets off on knowing that you are pining for her.. True of MEN. Also, women don't want to be alone. Before she broke it off with you, she already had another man waiting in line.. True of MEN. While you're banging your head on the wall wondering how you can make it right again, she is getting plowed by her new guy and loving every minute of it.. True of MEN. Women are devious and selfish creatures. As are MEN. Your ex is never coming back. If she does, it's because you are the fall-back chump, and she won't respect you. What's worse, she will just leave you again in an even harsher fashion. Lo and behold I've just had an epiphany! All these things you're describing happen the world over to women as well as men! Ah-mazing! OP, have you ever met other members of the human race apart from this girl who dumped you? Have you ever picked up a newspaper or a magazine and read the stories about footballers and chefs and politicians who have left their wives and families for their mistresses and gone on to start new families? Have you read any of the other threads by women on this site? I sympathise with a lot of people of this site, male and female when they've been treated badly by their partners but whenever I see a thread like this I just think 'no wonder this guy's single'. You're not simply hurt, you're misogynistic and with that frame of mind you'll never be able to attract and hold a decent woman because they set their standards far higher than you. You'll only attract women like the one's you're describing because that's all you deserve. Link to comment
Eocsor Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 True of MEN True of MEN. True of MEN. True of MEN. True of MEN. As are MEN. Lo and behold! It's exactly the same with MEN! As a man, I concur. Link to comment
The Mouse Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 As a man, I concur. I also concur! I think that sums it all up then. As both men and woman when someone leaves us we're all fu$%ed! time to shut down the getting back together forum Link to comment
veneratio Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 So much truth. In all of your posts throughout this thread. The bolded is spot on. I've heard those excuses, didn't appreciate her, didn't try and win her back (once I proved that wrong, her reply? "well it's too late"), we've been dating since she was x age, and so on. It's all just her trying to rationalize her decision so that it's ok in her mind and everyone else's eyes. I know I'm probably biased because it just happened to me, doesn't mean it isn't true, though. The 3 times I've been dumped it's been the same. I guess at face value there could be a misogynist tone to this thread, but once you fall a few times it'll make sense. Link to comment
OrangeMoon Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Hi Orangemoon, I am assuming this reply was meant for me...in which case thanks! You opinion is that, even though I pushed her into a break up with my neglect, and even though I know she truly loved me madly at one time...I should still go missing for a while? . You are welcome.. - And Yes..you should leave her be and focus on you.. She will not get any idea that you left her or that you are not interested, because you are simply doing what she asked. If she has any kind of problem with that she would resurface in your life. Anything you would try doing now is waste of time, because it gets irritating for all kinds of reasons. It might not be 'real' for her. Because 'why now all of a sudden'. The thing is that you have to understand that it is not about making a 'show NC'. You really have to be committed to move forward. Because It may well be that after a year you might not even be interested in a GBT anymore. Nor she for that matter. The only way you can 'prove' to her that you are working on yourself,is when you actually do that and leave her alone. She is filled with her own emotions and feelings right now..and whether she wants someone else in her life right now or not. She doesnt want YOU. But we women (and guys too) forget about 'bad things' with time..and after a good amount of time we even start reminiscing about the good times with our friends. I have done it, friends have done it..so many have. You simply just remember the good, unless the bad has been really really bad. But you are going to face her dating others..and you are going to have to do the same. Because it seems counterintuitive..but it will be THAT that will give you a new aura after some time has passed. It will also help you evaluate, if she really is all that. After a good amount of time, you can try again..but you will HAVE to accept that her door might be closed forever..and not because you have been away for some time. But because she simply doesnt see you as a part of her future anymore. So yes GBT's happen...the best chances after a good amount of time apart. (if you want the GBT to be lasting longterm) -- No..I am leaving this thread now. Best to do the same and make your own.. Good luck Link to comment
Thorshammer Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Yes, I have done the same to women. /me rubs hands together.... "Yes... aahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaa, I am the enemy you loathe!" But seriously, women have way more options than men. I just think its easier for a woman to have options. I dont get anywhere near the attention of a female in NYC. I dont get hit on when i walk accross the street, go to the gym, work etc. Guy "friends" will hang on a girl longer if he is interested, then a girl will hang on a guy... why... because that girl has her own options more than the "friendly guy". Men are the chasers and aggressors, and not a lot of women like to play that role due to society, social stigma... or because... they dont have to because they are used to being chased. Link to comment
Saffron_ Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 To be honest, the only men that buy into the sort of mentality and bizarre reasoning described in the first post are the ones with sloping foreheads and arms so long they scrape their knuckes off the pavement as they walk. Generalisations helping any of you 'dudes' much? Link to comment
robk Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Ha ha. Don't you just love sweeping generalisations. Especially when they are wrong. Let go of your bitterness and move on chum. Link to comment
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