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Hi, please help


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You can forward the emails and texts to your phone or email. I do this all the time with my own texts that I want to save a copy of...I forward it to my email and I do know you can forward them to your phone. Just make sure you delete what you forwarded in his sent box/folder.


I know this is hard, but I don't suggest waiting for him to leave you. Everyday waiting for him to walk away will be a miserable day for you because you are literally sitting there waiting for what they call doomsday.


Be strong lady!

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You asked how I know? It happened to me but was lucky to have a friend to help me. With that help Dobson's and others books I stopped her long enough to complete my marriage save. (Yep, I had to answer the question why it started in the first place... hard.)


Like I said... There is nothing new under the sun. Because of you panic and denial you are reinventing a wheel that was invented at the dawn of time.


You said in your first post, “I confronted him but he says it was just a joke and that this woman is his friend.”

- Born… this is all you need to know. Don’t waste your time searching for more evidence. It only serves to feed your denial and waste precious time.

- More attempts by you to control him with evidence will be viewed by him as pathetic weakness by him which in turn will make for great time consuming stories with the scumbag women.


You put the ball back in his park when you talked to him the first time. He answered you with his actions.


What to do first;

- Decide if you want to be married to this immature child.

- Order Dobson's book asap. (Don't let him see it... ever!)

- If he's not coming home... that's all you need to know. He has no respect for you... at least not yet. You need to change that.


First Aid;

- Stop talking and change your looks... think dating again. (Yes, there a billion men out there who would love to have you!)

- Change the locks.

- Put a suitcase on the step with some of his basic clothing.

- Put note in the case telling when you can meet to talk about the divorce. (Wake-up call to fantasy land!)


PS, Time is the enemy! The more time you waste in denial the higher the chance of consummation.

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Don't waste your time looking for "Love must be tough" in the secular bookstores. They have to be politically correct and therefore censor there shelf's.

Order from Amazon. Used works well.

Be warned, There are tons of thick marriage books with catchy titles. They all have some good advice in them but not for the stage you are in.


Find someone who has been divorced to talk to.


Do everything in secret.


Do not tell you're jerk husband anything!

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Don't buy the approach suggested unless you want a divorce. Don't worry about what he thinks, his mind is totally screwed up at this point and the goal is to try to get him see reality - even a little. Obtaining proof blows apart his just friends statement and let's him know you are fighting for your marriage. You can still out her at her work and with her family. Outing him with his family takes the secrecy and shine off the A and if his family is at all supportive, they will get after him. It also prevents him from covering his ass with lies that you want this or it's all your fault.



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You said, “but what do I do now?”

- No one can answer that question for you. You must answer it yourself and must answer it now.

Do you want to stay married to this person?

No? That’s easy.

Yes? You must start changing today. You must regain you're respest you had for yourself and intelligently fight for your marriage.



You said, “I am sorry if this is rambling…”

-Rambling is normal. It called “mind haze.” When it happens it’s very hard to think… but you must.



You said, “I guess I am getting the signal from him that he wants her now over me, right?”

-WRONG! He has no idea what he’s doing.


Fast forward… you get rid of him. Get back in shape with new clothes and start dating again. (You will!)

He on the other hand will be doing everything he can to get you back. His rose-colored glasses will have been removed.

He will not be with this woman! (She can’t be trusted…Ha!)

He will be thinking about his kids calling some other man Dad.

He will be thinking about how he is going live on half the money he used to have.

He will be thinking about paying you lifetime alimony.

He will be thinking about how to find someone like you.

He will be thinking about what he did.




The best chance you have of saving your marriage is to get him thinking about the above now.




Homework; Think back to your dating years. Did you beg for attention? Did you say to men come here and appreciate me I need you? Did you wear old of style cheap clothing?

Born… Go shopping today! Throw something out today.

Buy Crest whites strips at wall-mart. Brighten your teeth. Don’t let him see the box or wrappers.


Homework 2;

Become strangely aloof to this man. Reduce all talk. Build your respect for yourself.



PS, Find your “line in the sand.” IE(I’ve gone as low as I’m going go with you. You can continue down into the slime without me.) Play it your head often. At the right time say it to him only once. (Saying it more than once is weakness.)


PS2, Do not use any manipulative grieving on him. He will view it as weakness.

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Respectfully to other posters...


Born, you have been given advice to collect information and expose.


There are many reasons not to do this;

1. You don’t need it because you already know.


2. Further review of “evidence” by you will look like a begging session to him. He will view it as a pathetic attempt by a weak person to control him.


3. Exposing makes the presumption you can make someone love you. You can’t.


4. Exposing makes the presumption your marriage is more than you and him. It’s not.


5. Exposing makes the presumption you can change others by making them feel guilty. You can’t. It will drive him further into her arms. (The best of anything is always behind the glass.)


6. It will be viewed as pathetic weakness not only by him but also the persons you talked to. It will backfire on you.

They to will come to view you with the same disrespect your husband has for you.


7. If by any chance you do save your marriage your weakness will not be forgotten.


You are alone in saving your marriage.

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1. Exposing is not weakness, it is calling the lie he is telling.

2. It is proving to him you are NOT weak and will not be lied to anymore.

3. It is not begging - it is letting him know you have the truth and if he wants to have you even TRY to R, he has to change. That is why you specifically tell him these are my requirements to R and if you can't or won't show the actions to meet them, we will divorce.

4. You can't change him, but you can take the shine, excitement and secrecy out of the A by letting him know you are without a doubt he is cheating. 5. Exposing to others further eliminates the darkness the A is thriving in and enlists the support of those who care. Some won't, some will.

6. It is showing your strength in not letting him lead you around by the nose and expecting you to believe your his lies without question.

7. You are trying to stop the A - the gloves are off and you do everything in your power to get him to end it on his own. Exposing, taking a stand and not backing down are the only chance. If you just file and disconnect he will believe you are done and will let it proceed. The distance, anger and resentment will take over both of you and it will be done forever.


Being a person with a heart and desires and love is not a weakness. If love is not recognized in your actions then he is not worth it.

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Sounds to me 20yrs and Lester are proposing very different paths based on the one decision - to save or to forsake the marriage.


20yrs - You mentioned your wife having had affairs. Are you basing your advice on your experience of saving your marriage?


Lester - I was the guy on the way out the door, except that I kept my vows until the day I made the decision. Once the decision was made, however, my mind was set. My ex tried all the empowering techniques to save the marriage - losing weight, dressing up, empowered "posturing", etc. This is all pretty standard stuff in these cases and it nothing to deter me from my decision.


Bornfree, be aware that I had done everything I could to save my marriage - self and couples counseling, hours of discussion and explaining what was wrong - before I made my decision. It was not out of the blue as in your case.

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Many thanks for all the advice. I have also looked at the other forum suggested and ordered the Dobson book. I think it has been the shock of how all of this has come from nowhere together with the speed in which their relationship has developed that has made it all difficult to digest. He seems to be locked into a fast speed train hurtling towards her no matter what.


Lester, you asked find your line in the sand, well I have - seeing the upset now being caused to the children who obviously have picked up that all is not well with their parents. Enough is enough; I won 't let his apparent rejection of them at a drop of a hat hurt bring us all down.


After he did not return home the other night, despair is turning to anger. There may have been a million things wrong with me or with our relationship but that does not and cannot excuse his disregard of the stability of the family. HE could have talked to me etc rather than involving someone else. I might even have overlooked the flirtatious emails but I cannot ignore his actual discussing with her the possibility of leaving me. This does not look like some affair he wants on the side but something else. In fact his behaviour and the way he talks to her on the texts don't even seem to be him. This is a very different person to he one I know, almost like a hynotic trance.


Anyway I have told him in a very calm, loving but firm way that I know that he is having an affair and that he must terminate all contact with her or else move out. I think he is shocked that I did this. He tried to deny it of course but told me that I have nothing to worry about. I walked away saying only that he needs to choose sooner rather than later. I also left the door open to R If he would end it.


Frankly I think he will go but I now feel more in control of the situation and not the doormat that he assumed I would be. If they want to be with each other this badly in such a short period of time than good luck to them. But she will have to nurse him through his guilt and stress and that will either cement their relationship or drive them apart. I don' t see why I should be around to nurse him and so will try to quietly drop out of the picture altogether and let them get on with it. I haven 't got a clue whether practically telling him to leave will accelerate their future together but it is how I feel today.


Lester, what makes you think they will break up in any event because he can't trust her?

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Good for you Born! Brave, smart girl! You're not wasting time...YES!


You said, "hynotic trance."

- This may be the best explanation I have ever heard. Don't get too hopeful though.


You said, "I think he is shocked that I did this."

- Oh yeah!!! This was his first thoughtful day he's had in months, maybe years.


You said, "Frankly I think he will go... "

- He won't.


You said, "If they want to be with each other this badly in such a short period of time than good luck to them."

- The last four words of this sentence are great. The rest must be modified in your mind. Never include this trashy women in your thoughts or speech. Never mention her to him! It only you and him Babe. Don't allow this to turn into a three ring circus.


You said, "But she will have to nurse him through his guilt and stress and that will either cement their relationship or drive them apart.

- Don't think like this.


You said, "I don' t see why I should be around to nurse him and so will try to quietly drop out of the picture altogether and let them get on with it."

- Again, stop thinking like this.


You said, "I haven 't got a clue whether practically telling him to leave will accelerate their future together but it is how I feel today."

- Yes you do. Think back to your dating days... did you trap him? Were you compatible? Are you mature now? Nothing is in cement but if you can answer those questions you will most likely have your answers.

- Anyway it the only honorable thing you can do.... but it's VERY POWERFUL!


You said, "Lester, what makes you think they will break up in any event because he can't trust her? "

- You can answer this question yourself. What kind of women are you? Are you faithful and trustworthy? Are you mature? That's you answer.


You see Babe, these things bring you down and you forget your honor and integrity.


PS, Can't talk much on weekends. Your doing good.


PS2, Go shopping with a friend. Tell her why you are thinking about tossing your jerk husband.


PS3, Learn to think... YUCK.

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So I tried being a bit distant from him over the weekend and he made a huge effort with us and it almost felt like it was back to normal. Then Monday he came home late again which surprised me because I really thought after out talk last week that he would come to his senses. On Tuesday in a moment of weakness I called him at work and he reassured me again that everything was fine and that I had nothing to worry about.


That evening to my surprise he came home late again and this time I told him to sleep on the couch until I decided what I was going to do. While he slept I checked his phone and thanks to advice here checked his deleted calls and sure enough saw that he had been emailing her all day Monday and Tuesday and they had arranged to meet up after work on both evenings. So he was busted. He had lied to me absolutely about what he had been up to.


I confronted him on Thursday morning this time with all the gory details telling him I knew that he was having an affair and that the door was wide open if he wanted to be with her. He kept denying he was and was angry that I had found this information asking how I did it. I also told him once more that I was wiling to think about R if he terminated all contact with her.


He emailed me from work telling me that he loved me and the children and that would never change. Surprisingly that evening he came home from work early and we had a really good talk about things and he kept saying how happy he was at home and that he would never leave me. I told him that I had done some soul searching and that I would also accept whatever I needed to change to make a fresh start and things felt really good again. He even seemed to suggest that she would be " leaving " his life - those were his words. I didn't push talking about her because I really wanted to focus on us and I just accepted what he said. With this sense of a fresh start we had even been emailing each other all day at work on Thurday, just chatting.


And then disaster again. 3am on Friday morning and he is not home. I am shocked how he could behave this way after all the reassurances he gave me last night that he would never leave and that he loved me. I guess all lies and I was played again.


So the confronting hasn't worked; the threat to ask him to leave did not work; the patient tolerant approach didn't work so I guess this is it . At least I know my conscience is clear that I tried my best to keep us together. What's really odd is that even admitted to me that his friends who knew her casually described her as a bit 'mad ' although he said he did not share that assessment. Why tell me that? He also had made out that she has been pursuing him for the last two weeks. I can see now as clear as daylight that that was also a pack of lies...

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I would be heading to a lawyer if I were you. Clearly, he has no intentions of leaving her and will continue lying about it (as he has proven time and time again). All this shows is that you cannot trust a word he says. Perhaps it's time to serve the divorce papers? Make sure you start collecting anything and everything you can as evidence.

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Since he can't seem to cut it off, the next step I took was this. I contacted my lawyer and went and saw him. I told him what she was doing (very BRIEFLY) and said I needed to do two things. The first was legal separation so that our debts at that time were frozen and she couldn't pile on bills carrying on the affair. The agreement also stipulated visitation and what she need to pay me to maintain the mortgage, house, and child care. I also asked him how much a negotiated 1 lawyer divorce would be - about $7,000 or two lawyer - $20,000 to 40,000. I then sat her her down and laid it out to her. I told her I couldn't tolerate being in marriage or seeing her while someone else was involved. It was destroying me. She had two choices. She could agree to NO CONTACT (NC) and that meant of any sort - text, phone calls, meeting etc. SHe would have to write a letter herself that I would send registered return receipt mail telling him she was done forever and was going to fix her marriage. There would be nothing nice or unequivocal about the letter. She would also warn him that if tried to contact her, she would pull a restraning order on the basis he had been notified. If she broke the agreement it would be on to D. She would allow me access to her phone, email, texting, facebook and everything of her own accord. I would watch for violations. She had to give up her "privacy" as she called it becuase she had destroyed my trust until she show through actions that she could be trusted again and that was up to me to decide when that had occurred - open ended no time frame. She would see a therapist or psychiatrist to figure out why and face taking ownership for her actions. SHe had to own the A and it's effects on me. We would work on our marriage and I would make changes along with her to make it solid - I had already started this on my own about things I did to make her unhappy and she saw that. These were the basic needs for me to CONSIDER trying to reconcile. There would be a lot of work and additional requirements as we went along.


Her second choice was separation with her moving out and paying for her own new living arrangements along with maintaining half fo the costs of home and the kids until our home could be sold. D would follow within a few months and here were the costs.


It was her decision, but I wasn't going to wait. SHe had a couple of weeks to make up her mind or move out.


Luckily she made the right choice but I was prepared to move ahead if she didn't.


SO - contact a lawyer and get the basics of a separation agreement and how much a D could cost both negotiated one lawyer and 2 lawyer. Then sit him down and lay out your basic requirements. DON'T try to write an all encompassing needs list. It will look like an air tight contract and insurmountable. The details can follow. Be ready to follow though on what you say. Don't negotiate. DOn't let him say he needs to let her down slow. DO put a time limit on his decision or things start to happen without one.


IF he mans up and does the right thing, you can start working on healing the marriage and each other. He did wrong, but he can't fix you- and the same for him. Don't be belligerant - be calm and business like. If he stomps off or gets nasty just say I won't be treated disrespectfully. This is not a threat, it is what I will do. You ahve the choice. Talk to me when you can treat me properly and leave.

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So the confronting hasn't worked; the threat to ask him to leave did not work; the patient tolerant approach didn't work so I guess this is it . At least I know my conscience is clear that I tried my best to keep us together.


It's not that these things haven't "worked". You have done your best to give him opportunities to reconcile and make things right in his marriage. And he has proved unworthy of your trust and commitment. It's time to make good on your offer for him to leave. Have a couple suitcases packed and waiting for him at the door (preferably outside the door) when he arrives home from work. Make the message very clear that you're forgiveness is done and that you will no longer tolerate his unfaithfulness. It's over.

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Born, I know the horrible pain you are feeling... I really do!

I don't want to hurt you... but it’s very hard to tell you what you need to hear and not hurt you.


You said, “So the confronting hasn't worked; the threat to ask him to leave did not work; the patient tolerant approach didn't work so I guess this is it”

- This is not the approach I recommended in posts #17 & 28.

- Because of your panic and other issues you made a choice, (most do), to take a softer approach, post #35. This tepidity keeps you in minor role in your marriage and the three ring circus that is forming.


Yes I did applaud you because any action is better than no action at all. Showing some strength won you a weekend and gave you some greatly needed positive feedback… but that’s it.

Without forcing the situation you leave the door open for the “hidden person” to be involved in his decision... bad!

His weakness and her evil will destroy your marriage.


You have to remember... so far, to him this is still just a fun little game! He is in a very heady place.


Is there still time? Maybe, but you must teach him you are a person to be reckoned with.

I know it’s not a great choice but it’s all you got.


One more time… Wasted time is the killer of marriages at this stage.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I haven't posted here in a while because the situation is so turbulent- changing almost daily. To cut a long story short I have asked him to leave about four times now but he refuses to go saying he wants to be with me and he has no intention of going anywhere. But I knew he is still seeing her and I honestly don't believe him when he says he is " working on ending it" - his words. I have seen many of her texts and emails and it is clear she is putting a lot of pressure on him to leave - and then so am I. But he simply refuses to leave convincing himself that he is doing nothing wrong - unbelievable.


Is this the point where I now call in the lawyers?


By the way I have bolted the door several times and each time he starts ringing the bell and I relent and open it because the children are asleep and I don't want to cause a scene in the neighbourhood. I will still have to live here after all.

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Unfortunately it sounds like you're at the point where you do indeed need legal counsel to find out just what you can do from here.


He hasn't left her, and refuses to leave you.


And "working on ending it" is the lamest cop-out I've heard in a while - if he was sincere about putting you first, I'd think that girl would've gotten dumped asap and he'd be on his knees begging your forgiveness.


Yep - time to talk to a lawyer and find out just what you can do when he's playing hide the pickle with her, and yet refuses to accept your decision to separate.

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Indeed, if he was serious about getting us back on track he would have dropped her when I first suggested he move out. I have made my feelings clear that my forgiveness is through and it's over (thank you Swampyankee- you summed it all up beautifully)- as he has been unable to leave her. I have asked him to pack and go. Despite that, he has continued to come home late every other night this week- and by that I mean 1 or 2 in the morning knowing full well the consequences- its almost like he is throwing it in my face or he is losing the plot- I am not sure which. I did pick up in one of his recent emails to her that he thought he might be going through a mid-life crisis (after I had suggested that to him!).


He is either very confused or a first class liar when he continues to say that he is not going anywhere and that we will get through this;and that he will 'sort it out'- perhaps the reality of life without us is beginning to hit home. He also knows that once he is gone there is no way back- as I WILL move on with my life. I can't see how I can live with someone capable of his behaviour. And yet, he refuses still to accept he is doing anything wrong- she is just a friend is his standard line, and since I confronted him a few weeks ago he has not once expressed any regret or said he is sorry.


Last night I told him again to do the honorable thing and move out. I suspect that he is not 100% sure whether he wants to move in with her and is doing his best to keep us both sweet. All I know is that this situation is intolerable and I want him gone now.

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You said, "Frankly I think he will go... "

- He won't.


I feel every inch of your pain and have been doing everything in my power to just ignore your posts. But I can't. My dear Born.. can't you see yet your role in this nightmare?


What do you want?

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