Reaction to Smoker?

[OptomisticGirl]

Then it comes down to some people don't respect the rights of others - which is your right, of course, but I know I wouldn't want to be treated as rudely as the smoker was just because I chose to do something someone else didn't, even if it was killing myself slowly. Again, it's apparent it's two different levels of opinion on who has more right.

[Seraphim]

No, I don't respect the right to be addicted,especially when it affects my right to be healthy and I am not sorry for it either, because smokers do not just kill themselves they kill their loved ones and friends and people on the street. Why not run them over with a car?(meaning smokers might as well do this to family and friends) It takes less time and ultimately less painful than dying slowly of cancer or heart disease.

[OptomisticGirl]

Victoria it's clear you have a very personal opinion on smokers, as I myself do to some degree since everyone including my 17 year old brother smokes in my family. The difference is I view smoking no less different than the decision to have kids. Kids don't kill and they aren't an addiction but it's naive to believe they aren't a lifestyle choice, because they are. I was shopping the other week in Walmart and there was this kid that was SCREAMING their bloody head off and ripping clothes off the walls. What was mom doing? Nothing but shopping. I very well, again, could have become passive aggressive and shouted (because I would have to to be heard over the kid) "God, I wish I could shop without having to listen to screaming kids!" but I never would because it's insanely rude! The mom and kid had just as much right to be there as I did, even with the screaming and ripping of clothes up. I Just walked away from the screaming as far as I could. Again, it's just a different level of rights we believe. Neither are wrong, really - I just believe Batya could have handled it in a completely different manner than what she did.

[Seraphim]

My family all smoked when I was a kid too. Everyone smoked. I even smoked. People smoked EVERYWHERE with total abandon when I was a kid, in theatres, on buses, in bathrooms I mean EVERYWHERE. I am asthmatic because of the addicts of my family and others when I was young.Does not mean it is right, was right, etc etc. It is not really a lifestyle, it is an addiction( a society sanctioned addiction)but an addiction non the less, like alcohol, like hard drugs, like certain foods, it can be changed. Some people just think it is too hard for them to change. I do not equate it with having a child because a child is not an addiction that kills people.

[OptomisticGirl]

My grandma - to my knowledge- still smokes at almost 85 and with Asthma. My mom smokes and as asthma! She's tried quitting for years but always pulls the 'stress' thing. I never said, however, that smoking was a lifestyle - it is an addiction. I do however equate it to be equal to people choosing their lifestyles - which having children is a lifestyle choice. You choose to be a parent or not. People can be rather rude towards parents (as people can toward those with addictions) and that's were my comparisons come in. I would never want someone to unjustly be rude to me or judge me just because I chose to have a child (and there are people who do this, I have witnessed it first hand) so I choose the path of respecting that some people chose to kill themselves slowly. As long as they are not near a playground or a place that is clearly marked for children only, I have no problem going around them. Now if someone were lighting a smoke standing next to a swing set on a child's park you dang straight I would do what Batya did because that's my child's area of play which is obviously marked and well known - I doubt the smoker knew kids played on the monument if it wasn't clearly marked.

[Seraphim]

There are all kinds of people on here and out there in the world that are rude to parents. I see it day in and day out. No one minds that though. In fact most people who hate kids who I have seen are totally unrepentant about what they have to say about kids and parents.

 

This is not really a "kids" issue though as much as it is a health issue. This is about the health of all people not just children, which I guess is why she put it in health and not parenting.

[OptomisticGirl]

And I'm of the belief that if they are rude to me, I will be rude back to them. Treat others as YOU want to be treated and all that jolly goodness. I don't agree with people killing themselves smoking or doing it in public (most cities have banned it in public areas except for designated areas anyway) and L is a prime example of it CAN be stopped. He smoked for a few years, put the pack down, and never picked them back up so it can be done. All that being said, I don't agree with them killing themselves but they may not agree with me popping kids out into the world that may annoy them - because I love children but some can be VERY annoying - so I chose to respect their awful decision as long as it does not directly impact me or my future children (ie, on a swing set or something). Not all parents agree with this but again, it's my belief to treat others the way you want. I don't want smokers blowing smoke in my kids' face or none parents treaitng me like crap because I chose to have kids so I respect their right to blow smoke in designated areas and none child areas and to not bring my kids in none kid places whenever I can. I'm an odd one, I admit, lol

[Seraphim]

That is fine if they do it in a designated area because I do not go near them. But we are not just talking about momentarily annoying someone with your child. This is about people wantonly affecting the health of everyone around them. You can take your child someplace else if they annoy someone. You however can not take away cancer once you have it with the same ease you can by taking your child to another space, that is really what this is about.

[Fudgie]

 

Correct, the smoker did not have to get her panties in a bunch but she chose to, that is her issue.

 

Batya did not have to be loud to her child about "let's go elsewhere because there is smoke." That seems passive aggressive to me. Her happy reaction to the woman moving afterward shows that this is probably what she wanted and may have subconsciously intended for the person to hear. She did not have to be rude about it but she made that choice. That is her issue. People will see her as rude but that's the consequence that you suffer when you are.

[Fudgie]

That is fine if they do it in a designated area because I do not go near them. But we are not just talking about momentarily annoying someone with your child. This is about people wantonly affecting the health of everyone around them. You can take your child someplace else if they annoy someone. You however can not take away cancer once you have it with the same ease you can by taking your child to another space, that is really what this is about.

 

Again, this would make a lot more sense in this situation if Batya's child was actually exposed to the smoke. But he was not.

She didn't blow the smoke in his face or even near him. Sorry, but your kid isn't going to get cancer because someone far away is smoking outside. I think that's a little dramatic.

[OptomisticGirl]

That is fine if they do it in a designated area because I do not go near them. But we are not just talking about momentarily annoying someone with your child. This is about people wantonly affecting the health of everyone around them. You can take your child someplace else if they annoy someone. You however can not take away cancer once you have it with the same ease you can by taking your child to another space, that is really what this is about.

 

The way Batay describe it no one WAS around - the smoker wasn't annoying other people - the only people she annoyed was Batya when Batya came TO her. As long as a parent stays away from smoke their child MIGHT not have lung cancer - the smoker will and that's the smoker's decision. I treat others the way I want to be treated - if I treat them rudely then I expect others to treat me rudely as well.

[OptomisticGirl]

That is fine if they do it in a designated area because I do not go near them. But we are not just talking about momentarily annoying someone with your child. This is about people wantonly affecting the health of everyone around them. You can take your child someplace else if they annoy someone. You however can not take away cancer once you have it with the same ease you can by taking your child to another space, that is really what this is about.

 

And again, the monument was not a child friendly zone only - it's to the public which unless there is a ban, the person is allowed to smoke there whether none smokers like it or not. If you know it's a designated smoking area and you go there don't be surprised to find smokers just as I Would find it rude if a person who didn't have a kid came into a kid resturant and started complaining about the noise of the kids. Don't come then!

[Seraphim]

Put it this way on my own very personal level. An entire generation of my mother family died of cancer, both sides of her family, 34 of that generation died of cancer. The 3 generations after that have also started dying of cancer, including a little third cousin who was about 10 years old. He had cancer since he was 2. My mother's family has almost every kind of cancer there is. My father's family almost dies exclusively from heart or cardiovascular issues, heart attacks and strokes.My father has had 4 heart attacks and 2 open heart surgeries. I do NOT want this to be my fate. All these are related to smoking. As far as I know kids to not cause any of those issues. They cause minor annoyance to people who do not like them. So parents can move them, the affected other person does not die of cancer or a stroke.

[Fudgie]

The way Batay describe it no one WAS around - the smoker wasn't annoying other people - the only people she annoyed was Batya when Batya came TO her. As long as a parent stays away from smoke their child MIGHT not have lung cancer - the smoker will and that's the smoker's decision. I treat others the way I want to be treated - if I treat them rudely then I expect others to treat me rudely as well.

 

I agree with this very much. I can't stand people who force their smoking on others (this wasn't happening) or those who force others not to.

 

This is what should have happened:

*Batya sees smoker* - she steers the kid elsewhere for a little bit. Smoker leaves the area. Batya goes into it with child. Obviously there is no smoke because it's outside. Everyone wins.

 

You can't approach people who are far away and doing something that DOESN'T AFFECT YOU (because you're far away from the smoke and it's outside) and tell them to stop because YOU want to do something. That's just plain rude.

 

I get stuck in places all the time with rude, loud, unbehaving children. Ugh for me, right? You bet. You don't see me going near the parent and being like "UGH I have to come back later because there is offspring here." That's rude, right? Of course it is.

[OptomisticGirl]

Put it this way on my own very personal level. An entire generation of my mother family died of cancer, both sides of her family, 34 of that generation died of cancer. The 3 generations after that have also started dying of cancer, including a little third cousin who was about 10 years old. He had cancer since he was 2. My mother's family has almost every kind of cancer there is. My father's family almost dies exclusively from heart or cardiovascular issues, heart attacks and strokes.My father has had 4 heart attacks and 2 open heart surgeries. I do NOT want this to be my fate. All these are related to smoking. As far as I know kids to not cause any of those issues. They cause minor annoyance to people who do not like them. So parents can move them, the affected other person does not die of cancer or a stroke.

 

You are also forgetting all those in your family chose to smoke (those that did), no one did that to them but themselves. This doesn't mean all smokers are evil and will blow smoke in little kids' faces - my mom goes out of her way to not smoke in case a child comes by and even walks 20 feet away from the house to smoke when she has my nephew. Smokers DO have feeligns just as you as a parent do and don't want to be treated rudely for your decision to have children. All I"m saying is Batya could have done the polite thing and asked how much longer the woman was going to be or just walked off and waited for her to leave. Now she has said she didn't want a confrontation but again, I Find that hard considering she said something within ear shot which very well could have caused a confrontation. A woman once asked my mom to put her cig out because her kids were about to come out of a store. My mom did with no problem and no illness toward the person because they probbaly treated her like a human being and not something beneath them.

 

Again, you get treated how you treat others.

[Fudgie]

Put it this way on my own very personal level. An entire generation of my mother family died of cancer, both sides of her family, 34 of that generation died of cancer. The 3 generations after that have also started dying of cancer, including a little third cousin who was about 10 years old. He had cancer since he was 2. My mother's family has almost every kind of cancer there is. My father's family almost dies exclusively from heart or cardiovascular issues, heart attacks and strokes.My father has had 4 heart attacks and 2 open heart surgeries. I do NOT want this to be my fate. All these are related to smoking. As far as I know kids to not cause any of those issues. They cause minor annoyance to people who do not like them. So parents can move them, the affected other person does not die of cancer or a stroke.

 

I'm sorry to hear that. I've had people in my family die of smoking related deaths too. However, they actually smoked or had second hand smoke from family.

 

That still doesn't give anyone the right to demand that people FAR AWAY stop smoking when you are not, in fact, affected by their smoke. People die because they are EXPOSED to smoke. Batya's kid clearly wasn't. The two really aren't related.

 

If I am outside and I am standing over 50 (or more) feet away from you with one of my cigars and you do not come near me, please explain, how does that affect you? You aren't exposed to my smoke and I am not subjecting you, so why do you care so much?

[Seraphim]

Also again, I am not seeing this as a "lifestyle" but an addiction. That is where we see it as entirely different. I am not saying they do not have feelings. All I am saying is I value my health more than I value someone's physical, mental and emotional need to be addicted.

[OptomisticGirl]

Also again, I am not seeing this as a "lifestyle" but an addiction. That is where we see it as entirely different. I am not saying they do not have feelings. All I am saying is I value my health more than I value someone's physical, mental and emotional need to be addicted.

 

You kind of are Victoria. Because these people are addicted that gives someone - such as Batya - the right to be rude to them when her kid was NO WERE NEAR THE SMOKE YET and handle the situation like she did. Really, what would have been wrong with asking the woman politely how much longer she was going to be or just distracting the child for another five minutes? Nothing, absolutely nothing.

[Seraphim]

I'm sorry to hear that. I've had people in my family die of smoking related deaths too. However, they actually smoked or had second hand smoke from family.

 

That still doesn't give anyone the right to demand that people FAR AWAY stop smoking when you are not, in fact, affected by their smoke. People die because they are EXPOSED to smoke. Batya's kid clearly wasn't. The two really aren't related.

 

If I am outside and I am standing over 50 (or more) feet away from you with one of my cigars and you do not come near me, please explain, how does that affect you? You aren't exposed to my smoke and I am not subjecting you, so why do you care so much?

 

The thing is most people are not exposed to someone else's smoke once, right? It is about 100,000 of those passing people who smoke that eventually affect one's health. So for every smoker who says, well " it is just me" is not seeing the other 999,999 others who have smoked on this person.

 

Now to get this straight I am not a smoker hater, as I have a friend coming over tomorrow who is a smoker. She is not allowed however to smoke in my house. My son is not allowed outside in the area where she is smoking, as he is allergic and his eyes swell. I also can not breath when people smoke. I do not hate the people. I just really do not like the addiction.

[Seraphim]

You kind of are Victoria. Because these people are addicted that gives someone - such as Batya - the right to be rude to them when her kid was NO WERE NEAR THE SMOKE YET and handle the situation like she did. Really, what would have been wrong with asking the woman politely how much longer she was going to be or just distracting the child for another five minutes? Nothing, absolutely nothing.

 

I am not unkind to their feelings. I just do not go near them.

[Fudgie]

What if it is a lifestyle choice?

 

I smoke cigars once in a while, in public outdoor areas (usually parks but not the kind with kiddos in them, you know, with playgrounds) and I am most definitely not addicted. Or perhaps someone IS addicted but still enjoys smoking.

 

I don't see how them being addicted gives you the right to infringe on their rights WHEN IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU and be rude to them. That doesn't sound very nice to me at all. They aren't bothering you with their smoke so again, why do you care so much?

[OptomisticGirl]

I can understand that but it's also not that one smokers job alone to keep a none smoker from them - it's yours if you don't like it as well.

 

The thing is most people are not exposed to someone else's smoke once, right? It is about 100,000 of those passing people who smoke that eventually affect one's health. So for every smoker who says, well " it is just me" is not seeing the other 999,999 others who have smoked on this person.

 

Now to get this straight I am not a smoker hater, as I have a friend coming over tomorrow who is a smoker. She is not allowed however to smoke in my house. My son is not allowed outside in the area where she is smoking, as he is allergic and his eyes swell. I also can not breath when people smoke. I do not hate the people. I just really do not like the addiction.

[Fudgie]

I am not unkind to their feelings. I just do not go near them.

 

That is fine and you should do that. That's the best choice.

 

You should always speak up if they are forcing their smoke on you (like if you're on a sidewalk and stuck next to them, stuck in line, they are blowing it in your face, get my drift?) but if their smoke doesn't affect you, then don't go near them and don't say anything to them.

[HeartGoesOn]

This thread has run its course.