Boyfriend lacks ambition, should I stay with him?

[Cognitive_Canine]

Just being curious - why would your boyfriend's job and salary matter if you are an independent woman? Are you dependent on your boyfriend for money??? Do you expect him to take care of you??? Do you expect him to pay for the dates??

 

Is it ok for a man to feel the same way??

 

Sorry, but I get very confused about this topic. If I declare that I am an independent successful man I would not in the same breath complain about my girl's lack of education or low income.

 

I have never seen a thread here in ENA about a guy complaining his girlfriend's lack of ambition or drive or education or salary or whatever.... But I see a LOT of such threads from women.. that are apparently independent and successful

 

My take on this is whether women like to agree or not they want to be taken care and supported by the man. I do not see any other reason why this whole 'he lacks ambition/drive/education' seems to be such a problem. I am sure it would be ok if a guy lacks ambition, education, drive but has inherited lot of wealth from his rich parents.

 

These are the posts I am talking about, Gilroy. You seem to think that if a woman wants an equal partner, she's not independent.

[Gilroy]

These are the posts I am talking about, Gilroy. You seem to think that if a woman wants an equal partner, she's not independent.

 

Is it wrong to clarify something? I am not sure why I am being judged.

 

I am confused what it means for a woman to say that she is independent but yet is overly concerned about her BF's job.

 

I will not say I am independent and be so concerned about my GF's job or promotions. And most importantly I will really doubt if I would dump my GF based on her career and ambitions.

[Cognitive_Canine]

Is it wrong to clarify something? I am not sure why I am being judged.

 

I am confused what it means for a woman to say that she is independent but yet is overly concerned about her BF's job.

 

I will not say I am independent and be so concerned about my GF's job or promotions. And most importantly I will really doubt if I would dump my GF based on her career and ambitions.

 

I think you should be concerned if you're gf holds a minimum wage job, complains for years about it, and can't support herself.

 

I think everyone should.

[Gilroy]

I think you should be concerned if you're gf holds a minimum wage job, complains for years about it, and can't support herself.

 

I think everyone should.

 

Ok I will keep this in mind.

 

In general I would feel guilty about such a scenario but looks like it is an ok thing to do.

[Cognitive_Canine]

Ok I will keep this in mind.

 

In general I would feel guilty about such a scenario but looks like it is an ok thing to do.

 

Yes, it's okay to want an equal partner.

 

And, typically people do feel guilty. I've seen a lot of threads about this and the poster almost always starts with how guilty they feel about it, even when someone is taking complete advantage of them.

[Gilroy]

Yes, it's okay to want an equal partner.

 

And, typically people do feel guilty. I've seen a lot of threads about this and the poster almost always starts with how guilty they feel about it, even when someone is taking complete advantage of them.

 

Honestly I do feel guilty to even consider it. I am not sure how to explain it but this is one of those things where you just feel it and cannot attribute and logical reasoning to it. It always feels like job is a must for men and an option for women. Trust me, it is how it is out there still. People will not raise eye brows if a woman is not working but they will if a man is not working.

[Cognitive_Canine]

Honestly I do feel guilty to even consider it. I am not sure how to explain it but this is one of those things where you just feel it and cannot attribute and logical reasoning to it. It always feels like job is a must for men and an option for women. Trust me, it is how it is out there still. People will not raise eye brows if a woman is not working but they will if a man is not working.

 

Oh, I definitely do.

 

If a woman is not working, not pulling her weight, and sits home eating bon-bons while being supported by a husband or parents...I can't take them seriously in any aspect of their life. I simply do not respect them.

 

Now, if you are talking 'a woman is not working' because she's taking care of kids, that's something else entirely.

[Gilroy]

Now, if you are talking 'a woman is not working' because she's taking care of kids, that's something else entirely.

 

I agree. I am not talking about women that are at home to take care of kids. I believe it is more work than going to an office in the morning and coming back in the evening.

[Solo Pilot]

As a guy, I most certainly require a woman with ambition. She doesn't have to make lots of money. She just needs to do something other than minimum wage. I guess I got this way watching an old television show(Married with Children). IF anyone here has seen it, they will know exactly why I require a partner to have her own ambition.

 

Also I couldn't imagine not having ambition. How someone could be happy making 7.50(or whatever it is) an hour and be happy is beyond me. Not trying to slam you guys in college trying to make ends meet. I just mean people my age.

[Treehugger88]

Alright, to clarify the situation:

 

My bf was working part-time at a metal work-shop, and that job recently ended because the owner closed the shop. We were talking about how he was upset that he'd lost that part-time job when I mentioned that my dad was in a trade and knew a lot about trades. I said that if he was interested in getting into another trade full-time he could sit down and chat with my dad about it, and my dad had connections and could give my bf guidance into getting into trades. I never said that my dad would just offer him a job, he doesn't even have that much pull, more along the lines of my dad chatting with him about trades and giving him phone numbers of people in the industry.

 

I agree that I probably shouldn't have offered this though as I was only thinking about what I would want in that situation, not about a man's pride. I was probably wrong to bring it up, and I think I pressed the issue a bit more than I should have, although I did only mention it once. I have no problem asking people for help looking for jobs, and when I graduated a few months ago the first thing I did was e-mail connections I had in my field asking if they knew of any jobs. I would have also jumped at the offer if someone had known someone in my field I could talk to. I assumed that my bf would be the same, but I wasn't thinking that it would make him feel inadequate and incapable if he accepted help from my dad. I accept that I should have thought about it more.

[ItRainsItPours]

Gilroy I am a college educated and financially stable man. I'm still in the early phases of my career but at the end of my training I will make "good money". but I still would not want to be in a serious relationship with a woman with no drive.

 

you're making it sound like us guys get the short end of the stick but that isnt true at all. the current economic climate has pretty much made the housewife extinct. by and large most women with families are expected to work while maintaining the role as main care taker of the home.

 

a real man gets a steady job so he can provide a comfortable life for his family. a good woman should do all she can for her family as well whether that be as a caretaker or second income but it's usually both. there's nothing wrong with women wanting security even if they make their own money.

 

and being in your mid 20s and still working dead end jobs is just lazy and not attractive. and you're blanket statement that guys dont care about the education and jobs of the women they date just isnt true. one of the major reasons I broke up with my last girlfriend is because she did not have career direction.

[Lowconfidence]

OP, I'd say you should break up with your BF. Don't waste your time on a deadbeat. He will only drag you down. Find someone else with more ambition that doesn't need to be reminded or pushed. Money is important to most relationships.

[Lucidity]

I'm addressing the bolded portion of the quoted text above:

 

You are his partner, and you have an equal say in things that occur during the course of this relationship. Giving your partner options, such as you did with your father and his trades is completely fine, and your partner should realize that you care enough to present him with alternatives for him to consider that will help the both of you in the long run. So no, you werent wrong to present your dad and his connections as an avenue to explore. Maybe your presentation/verbage or timing were a bit off, but that is the magic of learning your partner and growing together as a couple.

 

If your partner sees everything that you do as an affront to his manhood, then you might want to talk with him about that and figure out why he feels that way. As a couple, both of you should view the options offered by the other as a gift of caring. Why people in relationships view or read negative connotations into helpful advice is one of the mysteries of the universe, and can only be solved by working together.

[Batya33]

I disagree. I think it is very important how something is said, the timing, the context. They are not a married couple, or similar so there isn't the same kind of emphasis on futures being intertwined. Even if they were it sounds like the way she raised the issue might have hurt his feelings.

[lostnscared]

I disagree. I think it is very important how something is said, the timing, the context. They are not a married couple, or similar so there isn't the same kind of emphasis on futures being intertwined. Even if they were it sounds like the way she raised the issue might have hurt his feelings.

 

Yep this was how I felt about it too. If they are not married, she really has no *right* to tell him anything about what he should be doing toward his career. They're not even engaged or talking about moving forward, so she really can't get on him too much about the decisions he's making because ultimately it's HIS life. She can either accept it or leave.

But he doesn't have to "take" what she says, just because she can't accept him. And I can see how it would hurt him and his pride to have his gf constantly ranking on him about his career choices. He has no children with her, they've only been with each other for a year, no marriage or engagement in the work--what exactly gives her the right to "push him" or to tell him anything about HIS life.

She can tell him how she feels, in a gentle but assertive way, but from there, she really can't *get* him nor should she *push* him to do what she wants.

 

I could see if they were talking about marriage, if they were engaged, in a longer relationship, etc. But they aren't.

And I don't think he's insecure to feel as though she is being invasive and nagging on him.

[Treehugger88]

You're right. Something I've realized through this discussion is that it is HIS life. He has been working for 3 years at his minimum wage job because that's all the money he's been needing. It pays enough for him to rent an apartment, supports his current lifestyle. He was in his early 20's and wanted to enjoy them, didn't have anyone else to support so he made enough money to support the stage of his life that he was in. So really he didn't do anything wrong and I shouldn't keep nagging him. I can't get this whole discussion out of my mind though, it bugs me non-stop. I've thought that maybe I'm just jealous that I've spent my early 20's in university, working part-time and volunteering in order to pay for and and to get into the field that I wanted to? Whereas he spent his working 25 hours a week and partying the rest of them?

 

But does that show a lack of motivation, does it show laziness? If he didn't need more money, then maybe its okay that he wasn't taking steps towards making more money. And maybe if he needed more money in the future to support a family, he would make that happen?

 

Or this this thought illogical and I'm just making excuses to stay with someone who I shouldn't be with?

[lostnscared]

I'm not sure because I don't *know* him enough to know why he has done what he has done. But if he spent his twenties, partying, and ONLY working 25 hours a week, then unfortunately that would be a red-flag for me. I assumed that he had been working full time these last three years NOT just getting by and using the money to support a party lifestyle. If anything that shows that he's probably a bit immature and needs to grow up.

 

I don't know if he has drive or enough drive to be the type of man that I suspect you want. Because there are plenty of people who spent their twenties partying and working, and who wanted more than to "get by". There is nothing wrong with him wanting that type of lifestyle, because everyone is different. But it doesn't seem like you agree with it or accept it.

 

Yes maybe if he had a family to support he *could* push himself to "want" more but that is really just "maybe". I'd be more concerned that he's barely worked pass full time, and like you said, just partied.

 

I was in a similar situation and dumped the guy--that was my first bf. He worked minimum wage, worked part time, made just enough to get by, and used that money on booze, pot, and partying with immature friends. He never grew up. Matter of fact before he was killed two years ago, he was also 25 and *still* in the same position.

 

Second relationship I had--and I'm on a break with, it was a somewhat similar issue in terms of "drive" but in a different way. The guy I was with was making above minimum wage and had a career since he was 19-worked 60-70 hour weeks, had his own apartment, car, etc, and used the money toward those basic needs not to party. The issue was that he wasn't doing the career that he wanted, or finding the "drive" to get out of that field and into a field that paid him more and was what he wanted. He got comfortable and stayed in that career for about 5 years. And by his last year he became extremely depressed and unmotivated after a series of unfortunate events and expenses occurred.

When he got laid off last year, he was *forced* into leaving that career, and went through an even more serious phase of depression and unemployment period. I was very supportive and encouraging, and helped him, and he wanted my help. Eventually found another position as a manager at a retail store, but once again not liking the position, and not finding the drive to get out of it(he's now been at this position for a year). That was my issue with that ex. Since we're on a break, it's no longer my issue. BUT before the break took place, we had decided to move forward as a couple, as in talking seriously about marriage, kids and the future, and at that point in time I was honest with him and told him what I needed, what I could deal with, and what I couldn't. I was assertive, respectful, but gentle nontheless. And he understood. And because of the way he was brought-up, and his hardworking demeanor he understood that if he ever wanted a family he would have to get it "together". He ALSO realized that he was very *willing* to get it together because he wanted nothing more than a family, children, and to marry me.

Again that was before we took the break.

But I had to let him know what I needed and wanted. And I did in a way that was very encouraging but also very stern. I essentially told him that if he TRULY wants to move forward than we both need to move forward in all aspects of our individual lives--he needs to figure out what direction he's going and I will support him but only if he is moving upward and that I could simply not see myself getting married or having kids UNLESS he moves upward, finds that drive he once had, and gets it together. Like I said--he understood what I meant--and was willing to do it.

I don't know if your guy is or not. But you need to be honest with yourself and ask yourself if you can accept it if he isn't.

[Treehugger88]

To clarify, he did party quite a bit (never pot or any other drugs, only alcohol). He doesn't really anymore, he uses most of the money he makes towards the apartment, but has basically nothing left after each paycheck by the time he pays for rent, utilities and school debt payments.

 

I would love to have a serious conversation with him about his future, similar to the one you had. But I don't know if it would be okay because I am only 22 and FAR away from anything like engagement, marriage or kids. I still plan on traveling and volunteering in far off places before settling down. So I guess I probably shouldn't have a conversation like that if I'm far away from any committment?

[lostnscared]

To clarify, he did party quite a bit (never pot or any other drugs, only alcohol). He doesn't really anymore, he uses most of the money he makes towards the apartment, but has basically nothing left after each paycheck by the time he pays for rent, utilities and school debt payments.

 

I would love to have a serious conversation with him about his future, similar to the one you had. But I don't know if it would be okay because I am only 22 and FAR away from anything like engagement, marriage or kids. I still plan on traveling and volunteering in far off places before settling down. So I guess I probably shouldn't have a conversation like that if I'm far away from any committment?

 

I mean it just depends. I'm only 23. But I've been with him since I was a senior in high school. He is the one who brought up the convo of wanting to take the next step this year... And of course it was a mutual thing--we both wanted it--he just brought it up first.

 

I think it depends on where you guys are at, in terms of the relationship. Are you ready to move forward?

 

I was ready at 23 to hear this talk. I was done with school, I have a career, my own place, my own car, etc, not dependent on my parents. Doing all my traveling over the next couple of years, and beyond switching fields and going to grad school next year, I had no "big immediate plans" that would stop me from wanting to be "engaged to him" within the next year.

 

We were ready, BOTH of us. But of course, we both needed to be on the same page, and we both needed to be working on our own lives in the individual sense and fulfilling our personal goals before an engagement could take place. Which is what, essentially, we were doing and in the process of doing before we took that break.

 

I think if you are ready to take that step you can talk with him about it. But you also have to keep in mind that he *has* to want the same things as you. In my case, me and my guy had similar values, about marriage, family, kids, and what it takes to be a good father, provider, etc. And he always had told me that if the time came he'd more than willing to step up to the plate and get his ish together.

 

Is your guy similar?

[lostnscared]

Now to add, our relationship has been rocky overall--but the "drive" issue is completely unrelated. Us being rocky is the reason we've taken this break. Not sure if I'll actually get back with him, but at the time that we had this conversation, it was a mutual thing with both of us wanting to work out our issues and move forward with the relationship. He had agreed and respected what I had to say about his direction with his life.

 

If your bf is receptive and can talk with you maturely about your future, and is interested in the same things, then a "talk" with him could be beneficial.

 

It seems like you love him and don't want to leave him. Does he love you? If he does, then I think you should be honest with him, and if he truly loves you he will understand and ultimately make a decision that will work in both of your favor. That is of course, if he is receptive, and is willing to do everything necessary to move forward in his life.

 

I wish you luck.

[Lucidity]

I disagree. I think it is very important how something is said, the timing, the context. They are not a married couple, or similar so there isn't the same kind of emphasis on futures being intertwined. Even if they were it sounds like the way she raised the issue might have hurt his feelings.

 

Which is what I addressed when I mentioned the timing/verbage. But you're right, I was under the impression that she was thinking about their future together and that someday they would be sharing expenses, making plans about getting married, having kids and whatnot. Upon re-reading her initial post it seems that even after a year of dating she still has not made a committment to go long term with this. If she has, in her mind, then maybe that is what sparked her to make this post in the first place?

 

If they are not sharing rent, utilities, groceries, insurance, transportation and the little financial surprises that life tends to throw at couples, then I would consider what she has, to be nothing more than a casual dating experience - even after a year. So no, if that is the case then she doesnt really have the right to make demands of him(as to his future as it would pertain to her) if they are not going to commit longterm.

 

I just cannot help but think after reading her initial post, and her followups, that the longterm just might be what she was thinking about when she decided to post about this. If it was, then she has every right to be concerned about the things that she has mentioned. And yes, if that is the case, then she needs to have a long discussion with him about these things.

 

A person has the right to feel secure in a relationship. We are each unique and have different wants and needs. To place a label on those wants and needs such as being "shallow", or what have you, is not anyone elses place to do. As a couple they need to grow together and be comfortable with each other as defined by their love for one another. That can only come from proper communication, something that is becoming a lost art it seems.

[Gilroy]

Even I had the exact feeling. If at 22 and this early in a relationship there are such expectations from her then I can only wonder what she will expect when it becomes more serious. Now I can totally understand why that guy does not want to get help from her dad. I certainly would not.

 

All of this reminds me of the girl that dumped me some years ago. I had just graduated from school and was looking for jobs. It was a recession and I was struggling to find one. She already had a stable job and was forcing me to become stable soon. I was very naive at that time and thought that she would actually be supportive of me and help me while I establish myself but I was totally wrong. She was just controlling. I moved from one state to another and got myself a contract job but still it was not enough for her. She used to make statements like "You should be up from bed at 6am. If you don't I will come and pour cold water on you". I started making some money through the contract jobs and slowly establishing myself but she dumped me anyway

[lostnscared]

WOW she sounded like a b******, telling you, you should be up at 6 or else she's going to pour cold water on you? That's really odd.

 

I'm only 23, so at the *most* I just expect someone that's in my age frame(23-27) to have a car, a place(shelter), a goal that they are working toward, a career or a dream they are pursuing and of course some type of stability. I think that your ex was controlling--just like you said.

[Gilroy]

I just expect someone that's in my age frame(23-27) to have a car, a place(shelter), a goal that they are working toward, a career or a dream they are pursuing and of course some type of stability. I think that your ex was controlling--just like you said.

 

Those were her expectations as well. I was still living with a room-mate and did not have a car. I had just got a contract job and I was focused on repaying my student loans and other debts. But that did not matter to her. She dumped me.

[Ms Darcy]

There are so many women that stop caring about their shape and figure once they get married. Some even go to the extent of reducing frequency of sex after marriage.

 

Why are you making this about sex and weight? I don't think your personal concerns about women relate into the question of whether lack of ambition or education should be a reason to end this relationship.

 

You should make your own thread.