Boyfriend lacks ambition, should I stay with him?

[Gilroy]

-thank you! That is all I'd want. I wouldn't even care less if he went back to school for 7 years and made no money during that time...

 

I am sorry but can you please be more specific and tell us what exactly is concerning you now about your BF???

 

In one post you say he is not ambitious and in another post you say you would be fine even if he did not make money for like 7 years??

[lostnscared]

I am sorry but can you please be more specific and tell us what exactly is concerning you now about your BF???

 

In one post you say he is not ambitious and in another post you say you would be fine even if he did not make money for like 7 years??

 

She is essentially saying that she wouldn't care if he didn't make money as long as he was in school during that time

But being that he probably won't go back to school(based on her description) that probably isn't going to happen. But I don't think it's the money that bothers her, she just wants him to either go to college, or to get a better job.

[arcadefire]

My two cents: Most men don't complain about women and their "careers" or "jobs" because, simply, they don't want their wives to have one. I am the only female in a very male dominated workplace, and all of my coworkers' wives are stay at home moms with low/little ambition and zero earning power. The thing is, men would prefer women like this because that way they can further their career at the expense of their other half, who is at home taking care of the kids, cleaning, and cooking. To me this is a very 1950's state of mind that perpetuates today because of a variety of reasons, and that is why I don't believe it is fair to compare a woman preferring a husband who has ambition versus a man preferring a woman with ambition because it just does not work the other way. I hardly hear of a guy complaining about his gf not working or whatever because I'm sure he is thinking that this way he can fully concentrate on his career without worrying about kids and housework, in other words a selfish point of view that is no different than a woman expecting her bf to be the breadwinner. It goes both ways.

[Gilroy]

I do not care too much about my girl's career or job because I am an independent man and can take care of myself. I can hold on my own and do not depend upon my partner. This is also the reason why I wonder why an independent woman should care too much about her man's career or job.

[Batya33]

I do not care too much about my girl's career or job because I am an independent man and can take care of myself. I can hold on my own and do not depend upon my partner. This is also the reason why I wonder why an independent woman should care too much about her man's career or job.

 

Because a person who values her or his career, who has a strong work ethic and ambition, often wants a person with compatible values. I definitely did. Not because I can't take care of myself - of course I can - and I have for many years - but because I want those common interests and values. And I also think it's very valuable for personal growth to allow someone else to take care of you at times - you need to have the strength to be vulnerable and to see that you can trust the other person to take care of you. It's all about balance.

 

(oh and minor point but I am a woman who is independent and I would never refer to my spouse as "my man" - kind of inconsistent with being an independent person!).

[Cognitive_Canine]

Those aren't the traits of a man. Those are the traits of an insecure man.

[lostnscared]

Those aren't the traits of a man. Those are the traits of an insecure man.

 

I suppose I know a lot of "insecure men" then, but that has been my experience. And I suppose I'm insecure too? I wouldn't want help from someone else. I would want to do it my own, and if someone felt that I was incapable of doing it on my own and had their parents try to "help" me, I imagine it would make me feel as though my partner doesn't trust my ability to do it on my own. I think that as a man, he ultimately needs to do what is best for HIS situation, and not for her, or her parents. And he can do it on his own, not "enabled" and "given" the opportunity by his gf's parents, if he truly wanted to. And I suspect that he doesn't want to. Or else he would've gotten out of his situation.

 

Millions of people find the inner drive to get from point A to point C without being enabled or being handed over a "job". Yes those things certainly help, and most people would be grateful to have those things. At the same time there is a point at a which person needs to do things for themselves.

 

He is a full-grown working man, he can get out of his stump without help, if he truly wanted to. People do it all the time. And I don't think it's makes one insecure for not "wanting" help that they don't really need. It's one thing if he needed money or wanted to do her dad's trade, but he doesn't and isn't interested. And it doesn't make him insecure that he doesn't want to do her dad's trade.

[Cognitive_Canine]

Well, he needs to do "something". His history has shown that he refuses to yet continues to complain.

 

Not wanting help doesn't make you insecure. Assuming that your partner thinks you're incapable or helpless because they offer you help is.

 

'Thanks but no thanks' is the appropriate answer. Not lashing out and accusing your partner of trying to control you.

[lostnscared]

Well, he needs to do "something". His history has shown that he refuses to yet continues to complain.

 

Not wanting help doesn't make you insecure. Assuming that your partner thinks you're incapable or helpless because they offer you help is.

 

'Thanks but no thanks' is the appropriate answer. Not lashing out and accusing your partner of trying to control you.

 

But if a partner is saying to you, "My dad said he could help you with a trade"

 

Was that warranted especially if he wanted to do a trade he would? I don't know how she's mentioning it to him, but if she's nagging him and trying to "insert" suggestions of things he can do that he doesn't want to, then of course he'll get angry. It isn't the right response, but then again who knows how she is telling him these things.

 

I also think that it could make a person feel incapable, because it seems like she went to her dad to ask her "help". I think it would be more appropriate if he said, "Honey I'm really interested in doing this and that... I'm trying but I don't know where to really begin, etc." Then she could say, "Well you know I talked to my dad, he's in that trade and he can help you."

 

Rather than just telling him, "I know you don't want to do it, but you need to do something. My dad has offered you a trade."

 

I would be offended by that. If I hadn't expressed interest in that trade, then why in the world would her dad or she believe that I need their help?

 

Like I said, I don't know how exactly she is saying these things to him, but communication is key. Sometimes it's not what we've said, but how we've said it.

[lostnscared]

Case in point. When my ex's industry got hit by the recession last year, he was laid off. He tried to find a job for months and had no luck. I never offered help, I let him do it on his own. Eventually we were talking and he admitted that he was having a difficult time and asked me if I could help him spruce up his resume(he knows I'm good at that) and help him target jobs. I agreed and helped.

 

I never inserted, "Well I can do your resume" or "Do you want me to look jobs for you" or "My dad can help you do this"...

 

When he needed help he made it clear.

 

Meanwhile I was very supportive, and encouraging while he did his thing.

[Cognitive_Canine]

Case in point. When my ex's industry got hit by the recession last year, he was laid off. He tried to find a job for months and had no luck. I never offered help, I let him do it on his own. Eventually we were talking and he admitted that he was having a difficult time and asked me if I could help him spruce up his resume(he knows I'm good at that) and help him target jobs. I agreed and helped.

 

I never inserted, "Well I can do your resume" or "Do you want me to look jobs for you" or "My dad can help you do this"...

 

When he needed help he made it clear.

 

Meanwhile I was very supportive, and encouraging while he did his thing.

 

 

And if your ex spent years of complaining about his situation and making no active steps (didn't look for work), wouldn't you eventually start offering him help?

[guynextdoor]

Sometimes a man needs to swallow his pride and accept help, there is nothing wrong with that. My .02$

[lostnscared]

And if your ex spent years of complaining about his situation and making no active steps (didn't look for work), wouldn't you eventually start offering him help?

 

I would offer support and be frank... And that would be my way of helping. But... It seems, from what she is saying, that she wants him to go to college, or do a trade, or do "better" not necessarily for himself, but because that is her goals and that she is projecting that on him. And that her frustration with him, isn't because he of photography but because he isn't being ambitious about the same things she is(hence she is trying to get him to have similar values). And therefore I suspect that her "help" is more along the lines of her pushing him to be ambitious even if it means getting him to do things he may not even like--i.e. a trade.

 

Wouldn't she rather him be ambitious about a career that he wanted to do?

 

And honestly if I had a bf that was complaining about his situation and made no active steps--I would talk to him about it, not with help but more along the lines of "What are your goals, what are you going to do to make it happen? Why haven't you actively tried to pursue this, what is stopping you? How can I help? And I will support you either way but only if you are moving forward...." And then watch his actions. If he doesn't, then let him go.

 

That's about as much help as he can get.

 

Because if it's anything I know, it's trying to push people to do things that they don't want or that they don't "value" only backfires. And you can only help someone that wants the help.

[lostnscared]

Sometimes a man needs to swallow his pride and accept help, there is nothing wrong with that. My .02$

 

Yes but "help" doing something he doesn't want?

 

I could see if her dad offered him a photography job. But he didn't. So why would he accept the help?

 

My ex accepted help all the time, but he also expressed interest in receiving the help at the "expense" of his pride, and it always very specific. Not, "Oh let me help you get *anything* even if it's not at all what you want"

 

You can accept help, and then there's accepting people trying to change you and make you into something your not.

 

This guy doesn't seem particularly driven and isn't interested in doing her dad's trade, or going back to school, obviously. So she either needs to accept that and love him regardless and encourage him to pursue his passion, OR she needs to leave and be with someone who has a similar drive as she does.

[Gilroy]

Great posts lostnscared!

 

Those aren't the traits of a man. Those are the traits of an insecure man.

 

While you may think that he is an insecure man for not accepting help many people including his friends, his family, and even the girlfriend's dad may very well think he is less of a man for accepting help from his girl's dad.

 

If this guy is without a job and has been that way for a long time but still refuses to accept help then that is something. But he has a job. He is working and making money right now. Simply because it is not in line with the girlfriend's expectations does not make him less ambitious and less driven. And it absolutely does not make him an insecure man for not wanting to get help from her dad.

[Cognitive_Canine]

Great posts lostnscared!

 

 

 

While you may think that he is an insecure man for not accepting help many people including his friends, his family, and even the girlfriend's dad may very well think he is less of a man for accepting help from his girl's dad.

 

If this guy is without a job and has been that way for a long time but still refuses to accept help then that is something. But he has a job. He is working and making money right now. Simply because it is not in line with the girlfriend's expectations does not make him less ambitious and less driven. And it absolutely does not make him an insecure man for not wanting to get help from her dad.

 

As I said before, not wanting help doesn't make him insecure. But lashing out like he did does.

 

And, I don't consider a minimum wage job making money. It's nearly impossible to make do with a minimum wage job when you're just supporting yourself.

 

And, he's not satisfied with his life. He's complaining and moaning about the situation. Yet, he does nothing. That would be a turn off no matter what the situation. (Complaining about friends, parents, weight).

[Gilroy]

I think the lesson here is to not date up (for men) and not to date down (for women). I have seen too many things in my life, my friends, and threads on forums and this seems to always be a problem.

[Cognitive_Canine]

I think the lesson here is to not date up (for men) and not to date down (for women). I have seen too many things in my life, my friends, and threads on forums and this seems to always be a problem.

 

You are assuming a lot here.

 

In your thread, every person told you that woman was out of line. And ever since that incident you have been extremely doom and gloom about women and finances.

[Gilroy]

You are assuming a lot here.

 

In your thread, every person told you that woman was out of line. And ever since that incident you have been extremely doom and gloom about women and finances.

 

It is not just because of that one thread. I have already experienced it personally and seen many other friends undergoing the same thing. And when it happened to yet another friend I posted a thread and asked about it. And now I see this thread. It only makes me want to be careful and be realistic about the Dating world.

[Cognitive_Canine]

It is not just because of that one thread. I have already experienced it personally and seen many other friends undergoing the same thing. And when it happened to yet another friend I posted a thread and asked about it. And now I see this thread. It only makes me want to be careful and be realistic about the Dating world.

 

You're going to have a difficult time if you associate women with only caring about finances.

 

I do not think you are being realistic about the dating world.

[Gilroy]

You're going to have a difficult time if you associate women with only caring about finances.

 

I do not think you are being realistic about the dating world.

 

Trust me. I never associate women with only caring about finances. I am not sure what makes you think that

[Cognitive_Canine]

Trust me. I never associate women with only caring about finances. I am not sure what makes you think that

 

You just stated that men should never date up and women should never date down.

 

Also, you like to disprove 'independent women'.

[Gilroy]

You just stated that men should never date up and women should never date down.

 

Also, you like to disprove 'independent women'.

 

Cognitive it is only natural for me to feel this way after a string of incidents.

 

And I have no idea what you mean by I like to disprove independent women

[lostnscared]

As I said before, not wanting help doesn't make him insecure. But lashing out like he did does.

 

And, I don't consider a minimum wage job making money. It's nearly impossible to make do with a minimum wage job when you're just supporting yourself.

 

And, he's not satisfied with his life. He's complaining and moaning about the situation. Yet, he does nothing. That would be a turn off no matter what the situation. (Complaining about friends, parents, weight).

 

Well it depends on how she presented the idea to him, if she were nagging him constantly and pushing these random ideas on him, that it's natural for him to lash out, especially if this is a "constant" struggle in their relationship. I don't think it's insecure to be fed up with someone playing "mother hen" in the relationship.

Just like I don't think the OP is wrong for wanting a male who is just as ambitious as she is.

Which is why I highly doubt that her relationship with him will work in the long term unless one of them comes to accept the reality of the situation.

 

And I do agree that minimum wage is not enough to live off of for a single person and that it isn't really making money. but at least he has a job, and has stayed at this job responsibly. He could do more, definitely, but he's not an unemployed lazy bum.

 

I think that ultimately he needs to find "his" drive, and until he does he'll continue working crappy jobs, and they'll continue to argue.

 

If I were her, I would probably leave the relationship because I wouldn't be able to accept things as they are.

[Cognitive_Canine]

Yeah, same.

 

I don't disagree with you in your posts because a lot of it a reasonable way to approach the situation. It's how I'd approach the situation. But, with 3 posts by the OP explaining the situation, it's unsure how see approached the situation.

 

In my posts, I assumed she approached it the way that I would have. And in your post you assumed she approached it incorrectly (which is a more than fair assumption).

 

Really, we are saying the same thing and I wish the OP would respond to the new posts in this thread so we can ask her how she went about things.