What can I reasonably expect from counseling?

[Skeptic76]

At the suggestion of a member of this forum I am posting a new thread to ask what people think is a reasonable expectation from marriage counseling.

 

My sitch:

 

I am convinced my wife has been at a minimum emotionally unfaithful.

 

She denies any inappropriate behavior whatsoever.

 

After ten years together I am confident of my assessment of the facts of the matter, and will not be dissuaded.

 

I have filed for divorce (end of March).

 

Up until yesterday, my wife has refused counseling. Now she says she will attend at least one session with me.

 

(If you want more details my original post is in the "breaking up" forum.)

 

 

SO - what do I want from counseling? Looking for reconciliation? It would require an absolute open-book, utter disclosure on her part as far as I am concerned at this point. Perhaps I should seek techniques to get along during and after the divorce (we have two kids so complete disconnect is not possible) from this counseling?

 

I'm twisted and confused right now.....suggestions?

[Sanesoul]

After following your last thread, this is what I suggest.

[DN]

I saw your previous thread where she was caught cheating on you (yes, I do believe she was cheating).

 

I imagine the reason she wants to go to only one counseling session is that she hopes to convince the counselor (and through the counselor - you) that she was not cheating.

[Skeptic76]

Can I be this deep in denial? I want SO bad for that to not be the case. I want so much for her to feel like she can trust my love for her with even the worst mistakes.... : /

[Sanesoul]

Can I be this deep in denial? I want SO bad for that to not be the case. I want so much for her to feel like she can trust my love for her with even the worst mistakes.... : /

 

She has kept denying the obvious. The only way there can be a reconciliation is if she admits what she has done, and feels genuine remorse for it. If she continually tells you that something is black when you know it's white (and yes, I think you know), it's not going to work.

 

Honesty is one of the most important things in a relationship.

[Skeptic76]

Therein lies the problem, I think I know.

 

Here is another question....yesterday it was my turn to invite myself over for an "after the kids are asleep romp." She agreed that would be cool...I am out of town but get home tomorrow night. I imagine I should not go....but I really want to. That would be mean to her and/or myself though?

 

I'm so effing lost right now it's hilarious.

[generaldiscord]

Like I said in the PM, the reason I don't think she's definitely cheating is because of the whole phone thing. If she knew that you could trace her phone records, than she knew that you could trace her phone records as soon as she sent you the temp password. That would be motivation for calling off the hotel trip, and definitely not motivation for charging room service for 2 to your account.

[DN]

I think the totality of the evidence means she was cheating because there is no other reasonable explanation.

 

I don't think 'after the kids are asleep romps' are a good idea at all. It implies "I think you cheated and want a divorce but I will still sleep with you".

[generaldiscord]

I'm siding with you though, skeptic, I just regard these as vaguely holmsian projects. When someone is going under an assumption, it is quite easy to connect dots to support that assumption. It's a fun exercise to try to unconnect the dots. Take, for example, M's point of view. He is completely convinced of her cheating. If she could convince him that she eats massive amounts of food and drinks a half bottle of wine and checks repeatedly to make sure the garage door is closed, she could convince him of her fidelity.

 

With evidence as strong as yours, the only reasonable disconnection of the dots is that she was hiding information for another reason... but still hiding it. Secrecy is very damaging, because of COURSE if she is lying about several things you have no choice but to completely discredit her honesty.

 

Whether or not she cheated (I place my odds at 3-1), she definitely won't admit it now. I would focus any questions in counseling not on whether she cheated, but on why she was hiding information.

 

Please, since counselors generally side with the woman by default, stress over and over that you WANT to believe her, but that she has to give you an explanation.

[Skeptic76]

@ general

 

The one room service for two charge occurred BEFORE I called her at the hotel. After that, they were all room service for one.

 

I BEGGED her (the first time I ever begged her for anything) to come home and get her 'alone time' later...she wouldn't come home.

 

You are the first person (on this board and in "real life") since this thing went down to argue rationally that I may be off base - I'm curious (and frightened) to hear more.

[DN]

From your other thread:

 

• I discovered that the Verizon online password had been changed.
  
• so she sent me the temp. password with explanation that she had guessed my secret question and changed the password in order to look at ringtones. I found this odd, because she could have just looked at ringtones on her phone (like she had in the past), and even if she wanted access to the verizon online, she could have asked me for password rather than "hack" it and not say anything.
  
• Anyways, after I logged in and paid the bill I looked at her usage because I had the feeling something was weird... I found that on my previous two business trips there were many (sometimes five a night) phone calls in the middle of the night (ranging from 11p to 3a) between her and another number. These calls occurred every night I was gone except for one, and there were ZERO calls any time I was at home. There were also more txts between her and the number over the past three weeks than there were between her and I over the last two months.
  
• At this point I am very suspicious, do a reverse phone lookup and find that the strange number is a guy she went to high school with and is friends with on Facebook.
  
• I check her internet history and see that she never looked at ringtones on the Verizon site. I also see that she has frequent contact with this guy online.
  
• She refused to come home. She told me this guy lives in Louisiana, but I can see that the calls did not originate there. She acknowledges she told me that "to make me feel better."
  
• FINALLY, because I booked the hotel room I see on the receipt they email me for incidentals that the first evening she was there, she ordered room service for two. This was before I called her....every meal in the restaurant or in-room thereafter was for 1.
  
• If it was just an old buddy, wouldn't she mention that she reconnected? Do married adults have innocent "catch up time" on the phone with the opposite sex in the middle of the night ONLY when their spouse is away?
  

It wasn't just about the room service. It's the totality of all of the above.

[Hermes]

Skeptic:

 

The counsellor will bring a little balance into the situation. And some clarity. That is his or her job.

 

All the best

H

[generaldiscord]

Yes, but it wasn't before she knew you had access to her phone records, was it?

[Hermes]

Have to disagree with you on this one, General

 

since counselors generally side with the woman by default

 

Counsellors, if professionals, are supposed to be impartial, objective.

 

H

[Tired Tiger]

Counseling can be very effective, but only if both parties are committed to the process. One session won't accomplish much of anything, but it's a start.

 

As for possible infidelity... only she knows the real story. Everything else is just speculation and assumption.

[Hermes]

Correct, TT. Only she knows the real story. Hopefully a number of counselling sessions will help the couple through the maze.

 

H

[generaldiscord]

Have to disagree with you on this one, General

 

 

 

Counsellors, if professionals, are supposed to be impartial, objective.

 

H

 

Sorry, I should have said "In my experience". Many of my male friends have have felt unfairly accused in the experience, and when I went into counseling, the only time, I ended up siding with with him, even though I was still furious with him, because the counselor kept mentioning that he had "anger issues", despite his repeated objections.

 

I think it's pretty clear from the writeup that Skeptic doesn't have "control issues" or "trust issues". He should endeavor to make that clear to the counselor as well. They can be very helpful though, and I definitely think it's worth the shot.

[Hermes]

Definitely, General, it is worth while trying the counselling/therapy. I agree with you. An importantly, find the right counsellor for the situation. Let us hope it works out for the OP.

 

H

[DN]

There is an old saying - if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck - it's a duck.

 

Unless she can come up with a rational and logical explanation for her behaviours as outlined in your previous thread, it would be irrational to assume anything else.

[Skeptic76]

If she doesn't come up with said explanation...I owe it to myself to exit the relationship. But I REALLY don't want it to go that way and I'm scared I will fall victim to my own desire to believe that nothing happened....

 

Can I begin my sharing with the counselor by being direct and open with the above?

[DN]

If she doesn't come up with said explanation...I owe it to myself to exit the relationship. But I REALLY don't want it to go that way and I'm scared I will fall victim to my own desire to believe that nothing happened....

 

Can I begin my sharing with the counselor by being direct and open with the above?

Yes, of course. A counselor needs to hear from you and your wife as honestly and openly as possible. But they can't operate on less than complete information.

[AutumnBorn]

Skeptic, listen, it doesn't matter if she was or is cheating. Doesn't matter. That's not the problem, that's a symptom of a much larger issue. Honestly. It may be the symptom that's driving you crazy, but there's something much deeper.

 

One session of counseling is going to get you nothing, unless it's an eight hour session. The first session is background only. Once you get her there and she feels safe, she may want to continue.

 

What you can reasonably expect form counseling is for safe lines of communication to open, listening and verbal skills learned.

 

Before you go, read the Al Turtle blog, if you haven't. Google it. It's priceless. I wish my husband and I had found it before we split.

[Skeptic76]

The "Map of Relationships" is very well written and thought out. Thanks for the pointer, Autumn!

 

Thanks to ALL contributors to this forum.

[Skeptic76]

So we went today....I got hammered on some real problems that I have in my communication. She also got hit with an objective take on her communication skills.

 

Me: utilize threats of leaving to get what I want.

Her: defensive, passive aggressive

 

During counseling she admitted to "some infatuation" with the other guy. AFTER counseling she wanted me to come over and you know what....I went over but (this could have gone very wrong) rather than "doing it" continued to probe by thanking her for finally making an effort to come clean. She admits that "it got out of hand" ONCE when they had facebook chat about the last time they slept together in high school (or shortly thereafter?) She adamantly denies having a visitor at the hotel and says they never saw each other in person. She says there was "some flirting." She has committed to a total of 10 counseling sessions.

 

I am partly relieved that she is willing to open up some, but feel in my heart of hearts that she is minimizing the level of intensity with this thing.

 

I don't know if we can work it out because the trust thing is scuh-REWED, but at least when this episode draws to the end of its "acute" stage I will know I have tried my best either way.

[DN]

Did you talk about her probable cheating during this session other than an infatuation and did you give the counsellor the evidence?