Where to begin...what a mess...

[greenmonster]

First off....its been about a year and a half since I've logged in here and would just like to say hi again to everyone.

 

Now, on with the story...

 

I'm in love with a girl who is with a complete dirtbag of a guy.

 

Her and I screwed around and slept with eachother for a couple months last year while he and her were fighting a lot and it was hands down the greatest sex I have ever had in my life. Since that time we have stopped the sex, for the most part, we still fool around a bit when we have had too much to drink from time to time, but mainly we have become the best of friends.

 

Her boyfriend and her are still together even though the guy has been fired from 4 jobs in the last 2 years, has been unemployeed for the last 2 months, she pays for everything in his life, he lives with her, he talks down to her, makes her feel bad, lies constantly, and uses her to no end.

 

However, he is good with her 2 kids and his family is also very good with them and they are all very fond of one another.

 

She and I have talked about stuff and we both love eachother very much, but she is scared to leave him because of what it would mean to have to put her kids through. I offer her all the stability and financial support that her life lacks along with a real future...and this other guy offers nothing but daycare services it seems.

 

She works like 60 hours a week to support her kids and this guy. She just finished her degree but is having a hard time finding a job in her field so she continues to work at her current job even though it means she never gets to see her kids. If she was with me, she wouldn't have to work half as much, and my family and I could help her get a better job easy, but as it is, with her working so much she doesn't even have time to look for another job.

 

I've told her to leave him get her kids and move in with me. I have more than enough room at my house, I'm great with her kids and I really like them, she wouldn't have to work half of what she does now and from the day she says yes I could put the wheels in motion to get her a new job.

 

She told me to just have patience and wait because she wants that, but is just scared to do it. I told her I have been waiting on her to leave this guy for over a year. She said she is just scared and has to take her kids into consideration. I told her to look big picture at this and see where she wants to be next year, in 3 years, 5 and 10 years....stuck in this same rut or in a better place? she said she wants to be with me...but just doesn't know how...

 

So I ask you enotaloners out there...what the hell should I do?

 

I love this woman...I love everything about her. I want her and her kids in my life. But I cant just seem to find the words to say to give her the strength to leave the crappy situation she is in....

[Theblueman123]

Why do you feel that you have the right to "save" this women and take her away from another man?

[greenmonster]

Why do you feel that you have the right to "save" this women and take her away from another man?

 

having the "right" to this isn't the point.

 

but if you want to say on what grounds do I believe I should involve myself with this persons relationship I would say that since her and I have known eachother and been friends for 17 years, sleeping with eachother for 18 months, become best friends and in love with eachother for the last year, seeing eachother 3-4 times a week, talking to eachother daily, that I am already involved with her.

 

I didn't say I wanted to "save" her, I said I could offer her a better life, a statement that she completely agrees with.

 

But to say that I'm just trying to "take her" from another man cheapens the reality of the situation. The guy is a dirtbag and doesn't treat her properly. Even if she and I weren't in the situation we are with eachother, and we were just friends...out of nothing more than one friend to another I would encourage her to leave the guy she is with because he is holding her down.

[whes]

welcome back! I always liked your avatar.

 

I don't think there is much you can do at this point besides continue to be there, be the safe one. You've given her clear options so that she can get out of her bad relationship, but she is the one who actually has to make that final leap. If you are the one who saves her from this, then she'll never have to man up to anything, she'll have you to do it for her.

 

Do you really want to be in a position where you are her protector rather than her equal? I know you want to be with her and want to help her and her kids out of the situation, but for her own personal growth I really think she needs to do this one on her own. She knows what you think, I'm gathering, and that you'd support her.

 

And if she doesn't ever leave her boyfriend, would you really want to be in a relationship with a woman who doesn't stand up for herself?

 

Give it time.

 

p.s. I didn't mean it to sound like I was proponing leaving an abused woman in a relationship, but it doesn't sound like their relationship is quite at that stage yet: it just really really sucks. Obviously, then, she'd need a lot more help. I think for now you just need to keep encouraging her and offering her that safe haven that she can escape to.

[gidget1]

I have something very simple to say,

 

If you are offering her it ALL and THEN SOME, and she is still not happy (enough to be with you), she's not the one for you.

 

If I were her, in dire straits, and someone offered me what you have offered her (even REGARDLESS of love and affection and a SOLID relationship) I would jump at the chance!!! She hasn't.

Move on.

[monkeygirl12]

I've been the woman in that situation, and its so easy for people to say "oh she hasnt left him for you blah blah" or "if she really wanted you she would be.."

When there are kids envolved, history and not knowing what your doing and how the future will play out..its a difficult decision to just UP and leave..it took me about a year....and basically when the guy whom I was in love with told me "if you dont take a chance with me, i will be gone.." i knew I had to risk it....yes RISK IT..there are kids, nothings every promised..its not easy!

 

even if you are making things as easy as they can be..the transition , the dealing with family members, the stress of how the other party is going to blow their top and then arranging things for kinds..ITS SCARY and it will take someone time to actually feel emotionally ready to take on whats next.....

 

if you've never been in the situation...oh boy! its hard to judge

[greenmonster]

Thanks. I understand what you mean by letting her do this and stand up for herself. But while I may have not explained myself well enough, I'm not trying to be her "protector" so much as be her support. Like I said, she wants to leave him, she is just scared of what would follow. Not that the guy would get violent with her or anything, just all the muck that comes with break ups compounded by the fact of her kids and that all parties involved have several mutual friends.

 

And you are right about the standing up for herself part, one of the main reasons that this is coming to a head now it seems is that I've become so frustrated with seeing what she puts herself through and doesn't stand up for herself. And like I said, even if her and I were just friends and nothing else, I would still encourage her to leave him due to the way he treats her and holds her down.

 

 

 

 

I appriciate what you are saying here and this is something that her and I have talked about. when we talked about things she said that me offering myself to her only impacts me, and in doing so I risk very little. But for her to change her life up it impacts more than just her, she has to think about her kids as well. She also says time and again that she doesn't think she would live up to my expectations of what I think she is, and she doesn't think she is good enough for me. Of course I tell her that she is more than good enough for me and I don't have any grand expectations...but she just cant help but feel down on herself because she has been with guy after guy who have emotionally taken advantage of her and abused her into thinking she is worth less than she is.

 

she has said time and again that if it was just her, she would have been with me long ago, but her kids are what she is afraid to uproot from what they know and change their lives.

 

 

 

I really like what you have said here...makes a lot of sense to me and this is what I believe she is going through when it comes to dealing with me.

 

I am not the type of guy to put ultimatiums on the table like that though, I couldn't say to her "be with me or I'm leaving"...on some levels I think that is just not fair. Her and I are too good of friends to ever just stop talking. She knows I'm dating other women and stuff, she knows that I am searching for something real with someone and that even though I wish that she was that someone, I am not going to close off everyone else while I am waiting on her. That wouldn't be fair to either of us.

 

She knows where I stand...she knows who and what I am and what I am offering...she is just scared and worried about making a move, and I can certainly understand that...

[jenny_mcs]

I feel so sorry for this woman's kids. Mom's living with a loser, and now the guy mom's cheating on the loser with is encouraging her to move them into his house. Poor kids.

[greenmonster]

I feel so sorry for this woman's kids. Mom's living with a loser, and now the guy mom's cheating on the loser with is encouraging her to move them into his house. Poor kids.

 

Actually...the loser is living with them, and like I said, he is really good with the kids which is the main reason why she hasn't kicked him out. The lease on her house runs out this month and she will be going month to month after that if things don't change.

 

Reality of the situation is that my house is not only much nicer, but its in a much better part of town, better schools, etc.

 

To cheapen it and just say that i'm nothing more than the guy she is cheating with doesn't take into consideration that her and I have been friends for years, and that her kids know me, like me and I like them too.

 

Don't get me wrong, I feel bad for her kids too, and maybe my bias of being the other guy and me being me blinds me to certain things, but one of the main things I feel sorry about them for is knowing that if she doesn't get out of the situation she is in then those kids will grow up in an environment of limited opportunity and in a family setting where they see their mom consistantly unhappy and mistreated.

[monkeygirl12]

Oh i just love how people act like things like this dont happen everyday, how people arent put in bad situations all the time yeah POOR KIDS but in reality, thank god the kids are going to be out of the situation soon. right now they may be too litte to understand and if you have any parenting skills you will know that it takes good parenting to make good kids..regardless of wether you and your kids have been put in bad situations before.

 

I cant stand when people say "OH I HAD A BAD CHILDHOOD" OR "THE KIDS ARE GOIN TO BE MESSED UP FOR LIFE" only certain sick situations messes a kid up for life.(molestation , witnessing a murder etc) a good parent will bring them and their kid through any rough patch..i had a unstable family growin up and I didnt turn out crazy or unstable, because my parents were there to guide me and support me even though they couldnt be together....

[monkeygirl12]

back to the thread.

 

I wanted to add before anyone mentioned it

 

If shes still with him its not because she loves Him, but because at the moments its the right thing to do. If shes like me the views of society have a big impact on your decision making, specially if shes young.. "young mother , left the father of her kids for someone else" its never and I repeat never easy even if shes leaving him for all the right reasons.. to walk around with the tittle of "SHE LEFT HIM FOR SOMEONE ELSE" it just looks bad either way, wether he was bad for her or not. and as a woman its hard to come to terms that people are gonna talk and people are going to judge you as soon as you make the decision you want to make..REGARDLESS..

 

I remember tellin a friend of mine "i really want to leave but idk about his family, and how theyre going to treat me afterwards" his family had really became the only thing I loved about him...didnt care for him..but I knew his family was genuine, they truly loved me as their own and that once I left him things would never be the same...

 

there are soo many factors..also, leavin like I did I had to go to my moms house because I just didnt see it right to move my kids in with another man RIGHT AWAY.so that was another issue in decision making...

[greenmonster]

Monkey...

 

The guy she is with IS NOT the father of her kids.

 

She was married in college, had the kids, and divorced him shortly after the 2nd was born. The guy she is with is the guy she ended up dating after her divorce.

 

She and her ex husband have joint custody of the kids, and they split their time up on an every other week/weekend basis.

[HeartGoesOn]

It amazes me that you're calling this guy that she's living with a "dirtbag." Whether she's happy living with this guy, or not, you're the one that she's cheating on him with. Who are you to judge him?

 

Believe me, you are not going to come out of this smelling like a rose.

[lady00]

I don't understand what she is afraid of with regard to the children. This guy isn't even the father...I guess I'm just confused as to why she would be afraid or worried about how her children would feel. What is it about leaving him that would hurt or upset them?

[greenmonster]

It amazes me that you're calling this guy that she's living with a "dirtbag." Whether she's happy living with this guy, or not, you're the one that she's cheating on him with. Who are you to judge him?

 

Believe me, you are not going to come out of this smelling like a rose.

 

Never said I was gonna come out of this spotless or that I've been a good person all along...

 

Trust me, I don't like the way things have happened...I feel guilty as hell about it and consider my actions to be quite bad for being "the other guy". I don't claim to be perfect. If it appeases you, I'll gladly call myself a dirtbag for sleeping with someone elses girl.

 

However, my judgement of him is based on the way he treats her, lies to her, uses her, cheats on her, and holds her back. All of which are things where a stark contrast between he and I exist.

 

If there are two evils here, I feel that I am the lessor...but again, it may be my own bias that makes me think that, of which I am fully aware.

[greenmonster]

I don't understand what she is afraid of with regard to the children. This guy isn't even the father...I guess I'm just confused as to why she would be afraid or worried about how her children would feel. What is it about leaving him that would hurt or upset them?

 

They really like him and his family. And he and his family are all very fond of and really good with them.

 

and with them being as young as they are, 6 and 4, and her having been with him for the last 2 and a half years, he has been a major part of their lives.

[DadaJones]

Style > $ in this case...his style fits her better...he can't be a total dirtbag if he gets along so well with her kids and his family is involved with her life...those rationalizations you use as to why she should be with you are just painful ot listen too...you come off as somewhat controlling, while her current situation isn't great it sounds like she has more independence in her current relationship.

[greenmonster]

Style > $ in this case...his style fits her better...he can't be a total dirtbag if he gets along so well with her kids and his family is involved with her life...those rationalizations you use as to why she should be with you are just painful ot listen too...you come off as somewhat controlling, while her current situation isn't great it sounds like she has more independence in her current relationship.

 

Good call. I hadn't thought of that... you.

 

I give it up to the guy, he is very good with her kids, and since he is regularly unemployed, he has plenty of time to take care of them. And his family is right here in town, and they too are very good with them.

 

My family is out of town, she knows them all and really likes my family, but they could never be there for her kids the way his are for them. I work at least 50 hours a week and couldn't possibly spend the time with them that he does simply because of my schedule....so I most certainly see where you're coming from here.

 

I don't mean to be controlling, and I can understand where aspects of what I am offering her could seem like that compared to her current lifestyle. However, when we have talked about things one of the reasons she has said that she is attracted to the idea of her and I getting together is the stability and support she knows I would be able to give her and her kids.

 

who knows...good post though...thanks!

[greensleeves]

Hey greenmonster and welcome back!

I'm going to look at this from a different perspective. If you were a woman and having an affair with a married man who didn't want to leave for the sake of the kids, people would likely be telling you he's feeding you a line that most cheating husbands tell their mistresses, that he has no intention of ever really leaving the marriage, that he's having his cake and eating it too, etc. I understand that you love her, but how much of your life do you want to spend waiting for someone that may never be ready to make the move to a committed relationship. It's the same trap that many women fall into when they have lengthy affairs with married men...before they know it, alot of time has passed and they're left with nothing. I'm not implying that this woman would intentionally do that to you, but it happens alot. You've already spent alot of time in a relationship that may go nowhere and in the process you've probably closed yourself off to other possibilities.

 

I just think that the longer this woman stays with this guy and the older her kids get, the less likely it is that she'll ever leave him. If they're 6 and 4 now, it won't be any easier when they're 7 and 9 and established in school or 10 and 12 and they don't want to move away from their friends. So, this could go on for years and you'll have spent a good chunk of your life waiting for someone who isn't ready to fully commit to you.

 

As it is now, she really doesn't have to make a decision because she knows that you'll be there waiting for her no matter what. Maybe it's time to tell her to make a choice...him or you, and be prepared to walk away if she chooses him. I know that you want to do what you can to improve her circumstances, but don't lose yourself in the process.

[greenmonster]

Thanks...this is all very good stuff. I really appriciate you taking the time to put that all down. And to be honest I think you are spot on in many ways.

 

I have some serious thinking to do...over this week she and I have talked about a lot of stuff, but it still seems like its no further along or closer to any real decisions than it ever has been. I'm starting to get the idea of what you said here and how right that is.

 

Even though I don't want to corner her into an ultimatum, I fear thats what it is going to take to make her make a choice. I'll always be her friend, but things between her and I have gone on long enough to continue down this path. Its not healthy or right.

[lavenderdove]

One other thing to think about...

 

Kids have to leave teachers, and babysitters, and friends who move away, and people who die, etc. etc. behind as they grow and move thru life. They get equally attached to teachers, friends, babysitters etc., but part of life is growing and learning how to deal with change and move on. There is no such thing as a single teacher who stays with the kids for their whole education, or a single babysitter, or even grandparents who may age and die.

 

So honestly, i just don't buy her argument that she's doing this for the sake of the kids. They already have a mother and a father who are both active in their lives, and if he is really ONLY the babysitter or like an uncle to them, then there is no reason that they can't learn to accept the loss the same way they would have to say goodbye to an uncle who moved to another state or their teacher when they move to the next grade.

 

So she is giving you an excuse that *sounds* noble and sacrificing on her part, BUT it doesn't make sense because the kids already have two parents and will have to learn to deal with change one way or another all the time.

 

The problem here is she has no incentive to change her life. She's got you for emotional and infrequent sexual variety, and the long time boyfriend at home making like a happy family with her kids. The real reason she is with this guy still is because she WANTS to be with him, regardless of what she says. It is very simple really, they aren't even married.

 

And every day the kids stay with him, the more attached they get, so my question is does she really intend to ever leave, or just string this along until you get tired of waiting, then go find herself a new lover and confidant?? Honestly, I would tell her that (a) the kids will have lots of people coming and going in their lives like teachers, babysitters, uncles and aunts, so they have to get used to change whether they like it or not. and (b) she needs to make up her mind within X period of time about what she wants to do, because every day she stays with him is another day the kids are still attached to him and getting moreso.

 

And really, sometimes the only time people recognize the value of something is when they lose it. So i would only give her so long to make up her mind, then tell her it is not fair to the other women you are dating for you to still be involved with her while you're just in effect using them while she waffles. Then stop seeing her. If she ever really did love you and intend to leave, she won't let you get away. And if she didn't, you won't hear from her, and have your answer.

[Ms Darcy]

I'm going to look at this from a different perspective. If you were a woman and having an affair with a married man who didn't want to leave for the sake of the kids, people would likely be telling you he's feeding you a line that most cheating husbands tell their mistresses, that he has no intention of ever really leaving the marriage, that he's having his cake and eating it too, etc. I understand that you love her, but how much of your life do you want to spend waiting for someone that may never be ready to make the move to a committed relationship.

 

Amen. This is really crucial for you to consider. I do have to say, perspective really changes how you view things. In her heart, she could love you both. From his family's side, she's the dirtbag for cheating and you are a creepy interloper.

 

 

The real reason she is with this guy still is because she WANTS to be with him, regardless of what she says. It is very simple really, they aren't even married.

This really sums it up. All this drama and they aren't even married. There are lots of sides to this story and the only ending seems to be one where you keep getting strung along.

[deff808]

I'm in the same mess like yours....

 

Almost a year... Kinda fed up with it!

 

To me i felt like i got burned!

 

You can read my previous thread....

[Ellie2006]

Welcome back.

I agree with LD, Greensleeves, and other people who've suggested that she's "feeding you a line"

 

According to you, she's said that he's "been unemployeed for the last 2 months, she pays for everything in his life, he lives with her, he talks down to her, makes her feel bad, lies constantly, and uses her to no end."

 

AND YET, based on the end results (i.e. her refusal to break up with him), she STILL appears to believe that HE is a good influence on her kids and she trusts him enough to take care of her kids.

 

So, are you saying that she actually believes that it's healthy to expose her children to a liar and a user who puts their mother down and makes her feel bad?

 

If there has been so much tension in the house due to their constant fighting (last year when you two first hooked up), his unemployment, his total (financial) dependence upon her, she really does NOT think her kids will pick up on that tension and be impacted by it? Sorry, but in my humble opinion, something doesnt seem to add up in what she's saying.

 

One thing to ask yourself: is she really in a crappy situation OR is she justifying the infidelity by convincing you (and herself) that she is in a crappy situation, when, in reality, all her actions (or lack thereof) are indicating otherwise?

[greenmonster]

lots of good insight over these last couple posts...thank you all.

 

I've never really looked at this from such differing angles and seeing the way this sounds from an outsiders view has really helped me to make up my mind about some things.

 

She and I usually spend sundays together, and today I am going to tell her that she has till the end of the month to get rid of him or I am gone.

 

I told her last night that just like I believe she deserves more than this guy, I also deserve more than just to be throwing my time and affections away on someone I'll never be more than just the other man with.