Another, "Why do good guys finish last?" thread.

[JonnyG]

Well so much to say really. Sorry its lengthy. But im sure there will be many guys agreeing and really wanting some answers.

 

Throughout my life I have witnessed the bad boys with girls and the good guys lagging behind.

 

Since school. The most popular guy was hated by the girls. When he wasen't in the room they were all saying how much of an arrogant g*t he was etc. Really backstabbing him. But all of them went out with him if he asked them out. My older brother told me the exact same thing happened with him in his year, the guy treated them real bad yet they all kept going out with him when he clicked his fingers

 

Another friend of mine was seeing 2 girls nearly at the same time. Both girls were best friends but he would go out with 1, then the other, then back to the first. He did this 3 times with each of them, before he couldn't be bothered to be with either of them. The thing is, as much as he is a friend, the fact is he wasen't a great looker, and obviously going back and forth between them without a care in the world, he wasent the nicest of guys to them. But yet they both went out with him like 3 times each.

 

Another friend of mine treats woman awful. He will go out with a girl, then forget about them whenever he feels like it. He will go off looking for another girl even though the girl he is ment to be seeing doesnt even know they have split up. Doesn't seem to care a dam about them, yet he does well with the women. And were not talking about innocent girls who don't know what hes like. These girls know each other and must surely say to each other that he treats them awful.

 

Thats some examples of old school friends. Altho they are friends, I can't agree with how they treat girls.

 

Now more present times. A friend of mine has a friend who has cheated on his girl 3 times. He admitted to her once and yet she is still with him, even tho i've heard (I have not witnessed it much as I don't see him often) that he treats her really bad. But shes still with him.

 

1 of my best friends here in uni is going out with a girl and he is awful. Initially while seeing her ( 2 months), he was pulling other girls when she wasen't around. He is very "tight fisted". He takes her to "all you can eat" restaurants and restaurants where you can take your own alcohol. When they go for nights out he only buys lemonades/cokes and expects her to bring a bottle of vodka in her handbag. Don't get me wrong, he likes her and doesnt want to see her getting hurt, but he even tells me that he doesnt think shes that pretty and he will move on asap as soon as a bird he prefers comes along. I eventually convinced him to dump her as it wasen't fair on her and he shouldn't be going out with her. He made up some excuse to her that he was getting back with his ex that "he really loved". Of course there was no ex it was just an excuse so that, as he would put it "would break it up for good". 2 weeks later he goes round to pick up his stuff, tells me she looked "sad", so goes back out with her. I mean WTF is he doing??? And what is she doing. What happened to the ex excuse? Maybe the girl is in denial but its fairly obvious that it was BS. She doesn't see it happening but it won't be long til he dumps her again, and she will be even more hurt. I've argued with him about this.

 

Going out for a night in town shows all the arrogant guys thinking their Gods gift to women strolling around like they own the place and girls love them. These are the same guys who use the "treat em mean, keep em keen" approach, and girls love it. Strangely these people also are more likely to cheat on girls, so why do you girls like them? Don't you find their arrogant vain behaviour annoying. I know that myself and many guys can't stand the girl in bars and clubs who are loud and full of themselves.

 

 

So it comes to myself and my little brother as examples of treating girls nicely and getting messed around.

 

Well during my 1st year of uni I met a very nice girl thru a female friend. We had a great night together and she told me she wanted to see me again. For the nx 3 days we chatted by fone and tx and everything was fine. I was told by my female friend that she liked bad boys. Well after 3 days she suddenly ignored me because apprantly my female friend said something she didnt like about me because she was jealous as she liked me. *sigh*. And showing great trust she ignored me and didnt respond to my fone calls so I could ask what was wrong and rectify the situation. Some months later I found out she was going out with this arrogant *beep* who was in my hall of residence. Well she liked bad boys i guessed, God knows why. He was a right idiot, every1 thought so.

 

During my 3rd year (now). I was seeing a girl I treated like a princess from start to finish (7 weeks before things got suspect). I had a great time with this woman (shes 8 years my senior). Each time we saw each other we had a better and better time. She appeared to get prettier and prettier to me, and I made dam sure I was looking better and better the more I saw her. She told me what she liked in a guy looks wise and I fitted exactly what she liked, I just tried to improve myself each time I saw her e.g. working on getting a tan, working even harder in the gym, the things she liked in a guy. She thought i was great. We had a good laugh together, we had similar interests, we had dinners together, days out and nights out together, and slept together. Everytime we went out she seemed to enjoy my company more and more, and she contacted me more and more thru tx messages and fone calls.

 

Well she then went quiet on me 1 week (she didnt tx me anymore just replied) after Valentines, I didnt do anything wrong or offputting in fact we were enjoying each other more and more. Then she told me she was "busy" 1 weekend when we were going to meet up. Then when I asked her out next time she told me could we just be "friends for now". I was gutted and asked was that it or was she wanting to see me again and she said "of course I want to see you again, its just a break dont panic". She also told me it wasent just work that was the problem but "other things" (which i found out later ment her ex). Well for 5 weeks we kept in contact but she was still using the same quiet approach, I txed her and she replied but didn't tx me, I knew something wasen't right. Then when we were ment to be going out again she told me straight that she planned to get back with her ex. This guy she had split up with was 3 months ago (from the intial break up and being friends cause this is obviously when things were happening between them as she went quiet at this time and she told me about the "other problems"). He split up with her because it was "getting serious and he was only young". Now being a lad, and knowing what a lot of guys are like and especially by going on what her other bfs were like, theres a good chance he left her because he was a) thinking what was he doing with some1 so old and was looking for some1 younger, or b) got bored of her and was looking for some1 else. It came to valentines and realised he was with no1 and felt lonely. So a week after he foned up Miss X and asked to get back together, with the intention of moving on when something better comes along.

 

Now I might well be wrong. He might truly love her and not pulled or seen anyone since he broke up with her. But like I said, I know what a lot of guys are like and I can see my theory above being correct. Looking at her past, she told me she thought her ex husband was a "d*ck" (not sure y), she had a bf who was a druggie, she had a bf who cheated on her, and another who was too obsessed with himself to think about her at all. So I wouldnt put my theory out the window. By the sounds of it I treated her the best of all her boyfriends. I was amazed the night after I originally saw her and asked her out the next day, we met for a coffee in a trendy cafe nero and she told me she hadn't even done that before. Shes 30 years old for crying out loud and had never been taken for a day time coffee with a bf.

 

Im not sure whats going to happen between me and her now. She still cares about me as she told me she really did, well thats obvious u could say, but she still replies to my tx messages and during our time together she told me that in the past when she didnt want anything to do with a guy, she didn't have the "balls" so to speak to tell him and would simply ignore him. Well she doesn't ignore me. I can understand in a way why she went back to him, altho it doesn't make it any less painful. After all I had only seen her for like 7 weeks while she was with him for 10 months and they were both apparently in "love" and only split up because it was getting very "serious", so he did have a big advantage over me, I guess i met her at the wrong time really. O well time will tell, im currently on the no contact rule as i dont want to b too forward and pressurise her. I just planned to stay in touch and ask how she is every so often (monthly), until we end forgetting about each other i guess, or if somehow she wants me back. The fact is I don't want to be a "mug" so im not hanging around for her, Im looking for some1 else altho im desperate to get back with her.

 

O well enough about me. My younger brother was fancied by what appeared to b a nice girl on holiday when we were like 16. Altho he wasent interested in her that way we were all firends. She then randomly decided (she was not drunk) 1 night to have sex with some guy who was a scrawny, shaved head hooligan like lad, who was completely drunk, had his trousers round his knees basically with his boxers showing to the world, swearing his head off, he was a total idiot. She then came back to me and my brother crying her eyes out 20 mins later saying she couldnt believe what she had done, needless to say me and my brother couldnt b bothered to listen to her.

 

In more present days. While at uni he was going out with a girl he treated very well. i met her a couple of times, she seemed really nice. For a bit over a year they were together and having a good time. This girl was innocent and sweet when they first met up, and was a nice girl during the relationship. But 1 day decided she had had enough of him as he was too "boring". She then went on to dump him and then go on a sleeping rampage, where she slept with about 4 people in the space of 2 weeks, inc a friend of my brothers who she told him she didnt find remotely attractive during their relationship, and also a guy she met at a party for 5 mins b4 dragging him to the bedroom. After this period she then wanted my brother back but of course he was like no way. What caused her to suddenly become such a nasty cow? She had only been with 1 person before my brother and he also was a nice guy and a long term relationship.

 

She is now seeing someone who has friends in prison. Her family must be going spare as my brother told me they were lovely people and they really got on well with him. Now they have a daughter who goes out with some dodgey guy who has banged up m8s.

 

Well this is the story of myself and my lil bro who treated girls nicely only for them to throw it back in our face. And this has happened to many of my "nice guy" friends. Whilst my "bad boy" friends have been more successful.

 

So why is it a lot of you girls like these guys who treat you so badly?

 

Iv'e read here that lots of girls like the guy whos "confident". But these same guys tend to be the loud mouth, arrogant idiots, who employ the "treat em mean, keep em keen" approach and end up hurting the girls. But you go back for more and more.

 

Its strange seeing in films the quiet nice guy winning the girl from the a**hole eventually, and all the girls in the cinema seem to think how nice, but why dont they act like that in real life.

 

The quiet shy guy can be confident when given the opportunity. Im a quiet guy shy guy. The only way I pulled my recent ex was because she looked at me and smiled. Had she not smiled at me and having not had any alcohol i might of not done anything. She told me she liked confident guys and she thought i was confident. I told her I wasent a really confident guy when trying to pull girls but when Im with a girl im much more confident about myself as I feel wanted, which makes you feel much better about yourself.

 

Us guys can be the more confident if were given the chance and we will be more sensitive then those guys who treat u so badly and were much less likely to hurt u.

 

I know many girls here will defend this and say it isn't true, and I believe there are many girls who genuinely like the quieter sensitive guy but the majority don't seem to. Why is this?

 

I have read a similar post and there was a guy called "cK" who had very strong feelings about this, and a guy with a Leeds badge in his avatar (can't remember his name) who also felt like "cK".

 

I have also read many threads about girls/women here who say that their bf's are treating them really badly or cheating on them. But they really like them still and want some advice. Well drop the idiot and find a nice guy who will care for you and love you more than these idiots who treat u like cr*p.

 

Its getting to the stage were my brother and I are thinking were going to have to change who we are to win girls hearts. Were (without trying to sound too vain) both good looking, got good bodys from many years of sport and gym, were very hygenic and we have a good background which is financially secure and treat every girl we know whether a friend or more than a friend very nicely. But we still seem to struggle to get the tally up (not that we want to as we just want to meet the 1 right girl). Im sure manys guys are in our situaition and wondering the same thing.

 

This isn't so much an attack on girls, im (just like so many other) wanting to know why you are like this, or why the majority seem to be like this?

 

Thx for the replies/opnions.

[Princess777]

Greetings.

 

There is a saying that if something makes us angry or upset, it is a wonderful opportunity to learn something about ourselves. I am learning to use this technique myself, and I think you'd be surprised at how much inner growth you can achieve by approaching things like this from a different perspective. So, what makes you angry, obviously, is that you don't agree with their behavior and you couldn't ever see yourself doing those things to your girl. How about you take that energy and use it more productively, such as congratulating yourself that you are not like them, take pride in that, and also that you will not attract the type of low self-esteemed girls who put up with these jerks? After all, why would you want a girl who lets anyone treat her like that..... you wouldn't respect her anyway. I also believe that you are mainly only taking NOTE of the jerks and their girls, and not paying any attention to the happy couples. There are plenty of girls out there who have more self esteem and are more mature, you just may be looking in the wrong places. Bars are full of many different types of people but on the average, about 80% of them are just plain single and lonely, that's why they're there. To have a good time, not take life seriously, and not worry about priorities. This is not to say that you can't meet someone worthwhile in a bar, but just as you have made a generalization about most women liking jerks, I am making a generalization that you're most likely looking in the wrong places. Does that make sense...... Anyway, I think that if you pay more attention to the positive side of things that you wouldn't be so upset, and another thing is that you seem extremely frustrated that you cannot control others, which could be part of the problem. I have learned the hard way that we cannot control other people in any way, and that we shouldn't try. We either accept them or we don't, so the plus is that we always have a choice. I also think the reverse is true to your theory of "nice guys finishing last"..... there are so many sluts out there who treat men like crap, and men drool over THEM and the nice girls sit on the sidelines. What's the difference? It happens, and it's just something we have to deal with or go someplace else..... remember, you still have that choice. Try not to let this bother you so much and you will meet Ms. Nice Girl. They're out there, believe me. It's just the jerks that push our buttons to make us notice them more.

[mahlina]

Wow! Thanks JonnyG! I enjoyed reading what you have to say. I WISH that more guys like you existed! I really do! I give mad props to you for still remaining to be that 'nice' guy that you are. I wish that I bumped into more guys like you in my general area. Perhaps, it's because you're kinda shy, so it's kind of backfiring. I personally LOVE shy, confident, and intellegent men! I used to like this one Caucasian guy in high school. He was soooo shy, but he's the kind of man that I want to marry! Why? Because, I know that he's the type who will treat the ladies right. He was a shy, perfect, gentle-men. However, he wasn't persistent enough. He even told my friend that he liked me, and wanted to get to know me better, but, we both were shy. He'd walked me to class every so often. But it was always us smiling, and just shying, and blushing away. Things just didn't progress. When I look back, I'm still annoyed. I bumped into him once in college, and I said hi, and shied away again. It's really annoying. So, to get to the point here, I don't think that all shy, Nice guys finish last. It's just because, when two shy people like each other, things tend to go flop. It ends up going nowhere, because they're soooo incredibly shy! I hate it, but that's the way it goes.

 

About bad boy...

I've had my fair share of bad boys. I think that it was a combination of his peristance, and sarcasm that did it for me. However, I think that shy guys can be just as sarcastic as well. I think that whittyness and sarcasm goes hand in hand, with intellegence and confidence! I think that's where women dig men, who are confident, whether, shy or not. It's annoying talking to bady boys sometimes, because they're such MEAT HEAD sometimes. I'd rather be enjoying my conversations with an intellegent guy, who is NICE, and knows how to make me LAUGH, and has something INTELLEGENT to say.

 

So, Going Back to Your Questions

So why is it a lot of you girls like these guys who treat you so badly?

Why Some (or Most) Women Prefer 'Bad Boys':

I wished I met more guys like you in my general area! There are lots of guys out here, who are just all about 'game.' That's all they want, is just a hunt. It's such a shovenistic attitude, but that's just the mindset of a lot of the guys, who think that they're all that, when they're NOT. It's just tough, when two people are shy. Sometimes, when a lady has a 'Nice' shy guy, she doesn't appreciate him as much! Why?:

1. Some aggressive women, love men, who will give them a taste of their own medicine.

2. They like the challenge.

3. It's a thrill ride for them.

4. They don't like to be emtional about things in life, in general. So, they'll look for guys who share that commonality.

5. Some of the them think that shy guys are NICE, but BORING, or too CLINGY.

6. They haven't been mis-treated enough, and thereforeeee, haven't learned their lessons, yet. Once we do, we realize that their arrogance is NOT what's appealing! It's NOT worth OUR time. And it's more annoying than anything! When we eventually learn, by meeting the bad guys, we learn to APPRECIATE the good guys.

 

What caused her to suddenly become such a nasty cow?

Some girls are just more naturally permiscuous like that. I don't get it either. It's like they don't respect their bodies. Perhaps, they feel unattractive. The ladies, who I know, that sleep around, tend to be the unattractive ones for some reason. It's like, they think that the more they get laid, the more attractive they are. I think it makes them look 'cheap'.

 

 

QUALITIES THAT NICE GUYS HAVE V. BAD BOYS' DON'T

I personally don't like that kind of shallow attitude! NICE GUYS KNOW WHAT THEY WANT IN LIFE. They're more RESPECTFUL. The only dilemma, is the 'persistance' of both parties getting to know each other. Besides, bad boys are soooo dumb sometimes. It's like they can't think beyond their pee-brains. They can't be open-minded about things. That's why Nice guys, (for me at least), tend to be looked upon as:

 

1.) The MORE INTELLEGENT ONES! 2.) Gentleman-like 3.) Polite 4.) Quietly Sarcastic & humerous in their own way. 5.) More in tuned with their own emotions. 6.)Thoughtful of others. 7.) Sweet and APPRECIATIVE 8.) Less arrogant about their own appearance. They're more HUMBLE.

 

THEY ARE THE PICK OF THE LITTER! JonnyG, If you're having a hard time finding that lady, then DON'T GIVE UP! I'm serious! BAD BOYS ARE A DIME A DOZEN, BUT THAT'S WHERE THE NICE GUYS SHINE!!!! It's just called timing and persistance. Timing which involves women, who already have experienced with the bad boys, vs. women who are still learning, when they meet a nice guy like you. So, JonnyG, women do like nice guys. It's just because when both parties are shy, things just end up going nowhere. It's tough. And I really appreciate the fact that you're watching over us GIRLS' backs! That's really kind of you! And extremely ADMIRABLE! It just shows who is the 'REAL' MAN here!

[JonnyG]

Thx for the responses. Princess I know not every1 is like this, but it seems the majority. I mean like all the girls in my entire class basically fancied the same arrogant cocky g*t even tho thay all were backstabbing him. Same with my older brothers classm8. Mayb its a competitive thing with girls, what woman can't get they want? They all fighting over the same guy instead of broadening up their thoughts for others. I don't know.

 

 

Mahlina, WOW. Nice response there. I think I saw you posting on a similar thread about this. I heard that you like the quiet guys, and I know theres many others like you, but the majority don't seem to find the quieter guy, often nicer guy so attractive til their older. Hopefully more people will express themselves about it.

[michaeltinker]

girls love confedence, it make thems feel safe as you look strong

 

if they think your better than them then they want to lhave you

 

girls also want what they can't have. ever noticed that the popular guys are the ones with all the confedence?

 

much love

Michael

 

be the nicest guy you can be so you can scare off all the dirty hoes.

cause they will take sometimes mistake your kindness for weakness.

[Derek]

I replied in other threads about this...

 

It is about confidence and the attitude of the guy where he doesn't care what other people think, especially girls, he is going his own way. A self-made man. Though people that go their own way despite the advice of others can be stubborn and stupid too.

 

Back to the reasons why? I suspect a few things:

 

You mentioned that these were women in high school and college right?

(22 years old) Well at those times, alot of women still don't know what they want and they want to party still trying to "find themselves" Yes, it is tragic that they reject a "nice guy" that is right under their nose but those same girls will be looking for that "nice guy" after they get into the Real World and realize their Biker Bad Boy or Starving Artist or Rebel Rocker isn't going to give them much of a real future.

You need to find better quality women in new places with similar interests.

Like say women at a climbing wall, or cycling club or hiking group or reading club or whatever... forget the dang bars... especially the university bars.

 

I think you need to find those diamond's in the rough, those girls that may not be approached all that often. Girls have a legit complaint about how guys that are 4/10 go after the 10/10 girls in the clubs and bypass all the 7/10 and 8/10 girls along the way. Guys miss out on great things when they do that.

 

So finding better quality women is one thing, second might be, you can't be boring! A dude can be shy and nice and stuff and not be freakin' boring! Have a life. Don't expect to get a girl and then have a life. Have a life on your own BEFORE you get the girl. She wants to see you doing stuff and then she might want to join you on your journey if she is going to the same direction, but if you have no goals or journey or direction, you've got nothing and she knows it! The "bad boy" is doing his own thing and doesn't care if the girl comes or goes... she falls for the illusion that he's going places somehow because of his attitude... As a shy and nice guy, you've got to actually be going to better places than that "bad boy" is pretending to go to. Get it?

Do sports, activities, read, write, cook, family stuff, work stuff, have many varied interests, music, internet, whatever floats your boat.

You'll meet girls while persuing those things that will be pursuing the same as you. There is the trick.

 

Don't give up, I think it is worth it to go for quality over quantity when it comes to girls, and when it comes to relationships in general. A few close friends does me more good than 30 superficial friends.

 

 

 

[mahlina]

Wow! Derek, really knows what he's talking about...It's true! I wish more women and men realize this, especially women my age. What's with these girls falling for guys who will never get their lives anywhere? Why is it that we are always out there to save them? Just accept them for who they are right? If they want to act all stubborn and manly, then let them do so, right? Let the bad boys be bad boys. Let them be bygones! That's why, I love guys who know what they want in life! It's much more of a turn on, than a guy, who's out there, hanging out on streetcorners, or the 'block', smoking crack with his friends all day, or hitting up the local 'bars' and 'clubs.' I wish I could meet more 'nice' guys, instead of these wannabe 'phonies,' guys who try to act like they're nice, but all they want is 'game.' I wish I can meet a nice shy guy, but knowing me, I'm kinda shy too, so it's hard! Why does this whole dating & growing up process have to be sooo complicated? I just want to find that man to 'settle' down with already! (I know, scary thought.) But I don't mind being a young, hip-mom, with a full-blown career, and a husband to come home to! With a nice, small, cozy-house to settle into, and little 'mini-me's' to greet me at the door! Sorry, just my 2 cent's worth. Why do I feel so old for my age?

 

Anyway, Derek made some good pointers there! I think more men and women should follow his philosophy! Meanwhile, I'll just dream on...

[JonnyG]

Well, we have already established mahlina that u r 1 of a minority

Only j/k, its ppl like u who give many of us hope . Its a pity there aren't more girls with ur attitude. Luckily i think i found another nice girl from last weekend, but unfortunately if things progress it won't last long anyway as she is from Greece and has to go back there for good in 2 months.

[psycho_Jr]

well said everyone

 

my advice to nice guys who are in their late teens to midtwenties is to have relationships with the girls who notice and would like to know them.thats better because it will prevent you from being brokenhearted and you will be much happier if you date with the people who respect you for who you are

 

after your midtwenties you will have a successful career which most of the "bad boys" wont have and more woman will come to you by then.infact,most of the woman in those ages will have learned their lessons , will be much more intelligent and you wont fall again into the "nice guy syndrome" trap by being cheated on for an unemployed alcholic or an outlaw biker

[B_C_R]

I think i'll have to make a serious comment here for once:

 

Trust me, i've been the "nice guy" for almost all of my life, but recently i've tried the A-hole approach to life and found that it does work. Here's why:

 

1. Women want guys who are exciting and fun, usually nice guys don't appeal to girls that aren't ready to, "settle down".

2. A-holes aren't Marrage material. They are not someone that they want to marry anyway. This is something that is important when a girl realizes that she's getting older and still wants to live a party lifestyle.

3. A-holes are fun, most of them (ahem...us) aren't very bright, which is why women like them. They like to know that they are more intelligent than someone, this goes hand in hand with the part in #2 that states they are not someone they are going to marry anyway so, who cares.

4. Usually the A-hole's are the most attractive of the bunch. Unfortunately for the others, those that are not attractive have the personality to make up for it, or drive a porche. If a girl can find an attractive nice guy, it may last but that usually is up to the woman.

5. One other thing that is commonly over looked is, they are never in a relationship for that long anyway, so of course they aren't going to get dumped THEY (ahem...we) do the dumping. Which trust me, does wonders for confidence levels, I HIGHLY recommend it.

 

and finally,

6. Some girls are just hoes

[JonnyG]

hehe, nice B C R. Altho some may disagree, i think u made some good points there. I should giv it a go, but i know mahlina will come down on us like a ton of bricks

[Princess777]

BCR, you indicated that you try the A-hole approach and it "works"..... but you didn't emphasize what exactly it works FOR. Your key words were "girls that aren't ready to settle down". With that statement, you admitted that you are looking for a girl who is not ready to settle down. So obviously, if a guy is looking to get laid, he should be a jerk and if he's looking for a wife or a committed girlfriend, he should be a nice guy.......

 

Isn't that just common sense? It works the same exact way for women; that is nothing new. So why is it so difficult for you "nice" guys to understand then? Evidently you're not looking for a committed girlfriend, a "nice" girl, so what do you expect? The women you are hanging around with in bars who are hanging on the jerks are getting what they want - they just want to get laid. Go to the laundromat or to the grocery store or to the bookstore, etc. to find a wife or someone who is more serious about having a relationship if that's what you're looking for. Does that make sense? Just trying to help.

[Princess777]

I guess what I'm saying is, if a guy thinks that he is a "nice guy finishing last", then, by the way some of you guys talk, that indicates to me that he is looking to get laid and dump her, and can't. Is that correct?

 

If that is not correct, and the guy is actually looking for a committed relationship and cannot find one, then, to me, that would indicate that he is looking in the wrong places.

 

Hope this clears up what I was saying.

[B_C_R]

I think you're starting to break into the male psyche. There are two types of guys unfortunately:

 

1. A-holes

this brand of male is mainly looking to get laid as much as possible by as many different women as possible. These happen to be the most fun to have as friends (if your male, if your female a true A-hole doesn't keep many, if any female friends so this probably doesn't apply) and if your a girl wanting a date.

2. Wussies (i can't start it with a P or else i'll get censored)

These guys are the type that want a long term relationship or want to find a girl that they can latch on to for a while. By while I mean until someone ends it, usually resulting with the other in tears. The wussy in usually the one in tears.

 

Some guys try to mix and match these two to varying levels of success, however usually that success is low.

 

I also agree that this is fairly odvious, but guys tend to get caught up in the idealised female induced wussification (i know that's not a word by the way.) of the male gender. So i try to set them straight. So thanks for pointing that out princess.

[Princess777]

Hmmm.... I agree that certain parts of the "nice guy" aspect are black and white, as we agreed upon. However, I respectfully do not agree that there are only 2 types of guys. Your being only 19 is working against you there, hon. But that's okay, that's what you know and that's what these forums are all about.... sharing of information. Those are the only 2 types of guys you KNOW of, and you're obviously speaking of those in your age bracket. I also disagree with your statement that a man who is looking for a committed relationship is a "wussy". You refer to these men as "wussies" because they are not like you, so you are calling yourself the A-hole type of guy then. When you get a little older you'll get tired of being the A-hole and you'll be a "wussy" too...... just wait!

[spatzcolumbo]

Reading my mind - they say how happy they are, and next minute, they're off, gone, no word.

 

I did Everything to make my ex happy, did everything. Someone said to me that maybe the reason she split was because i did so much. because i treated her so well. Sometimes people like to feel the challenge there, and like to have to do things for themselves.

 

Doesn't make sense to me - i was treating her the way i think she deserved to be treated. Everyone is always telling me how nice i am, and she even told me after the breakup that i am "the nicest guy she has ever met". But that obviously wasn't good enough for her. She said she is not mature enough (20) for such a committed relationship. I know its never gonna happen, but i hope that once she has got the 'fun' of uni out the way, then maybe she will realise that i am just what she wants. the number of times she told me i was her perfect guy...who knows why the nice guys always end up with nothing. I just hope that in the long run i come out on top.

[mahlina]

Good guys finish last, because they're so nice, reserved and shy! The bad boys are the loud ones, who know they have that charisma, thereforeeee, most women, who are naiive, and blind (me included. happened before, I must admit), fall for it! Eventually, we realize that these guys are the ones, who will be scumbags for life! We feel sorry for those who are 'stuck' with them! I guess, in the end, we're glad that we meet these 'players,' because they help us to realize what we 'don't want'! I wish I can meet a 'nice guy.' I hate the fact that I always end up meeting the 'players.' Okay, well not always, but 'nice' guys are a 'rare' gem!

 

I'm sick of meeting guys who 'act' like they really care, when in fact they don't! I'm tired of meeting these 'players.' I'm tired of guys who decieve me! It's so hard to find people who are actually 'selfless' nowadays! Why is it that I always get the bad guys? It's so dang annoying! I mean, I respect myself, I do not do narcotics (never tried, am not against it, and don't mean to offend those who do), don't smoke, drink on occasions (just for taste, but not to get drunk), and I do not dress provacatively (I can't help it if my clothes are 'form fitting'! I'm not a hootchie mama! Don't dress like one, and don't respect those who do, sorry, yes, that's my bad side. Kinda bitter towards those who do, because they like the 'wrong' attention, and take pride in looking all dirty!)! Yet, I'm always bound to meet guys who will hurt me! I've met one 'nice' guy kinda recently! He's a cool guy, but it seems like I'm always bound to meet guys who don't love me for who I am! I met 'nice' guys in the past, but that's where it ends up! In the past! I'm sick of it! I think I'll just go join a 'convent.' Sacrafice my life for God, and only God! Mahlina

[Chesnick]

I don't even know if people are reading this thread, but I've gotta put my two cents in, as I have spent much time pondering this phenomena.

 

And I say this: neither young men nor young women have any will power. They don't. And by this, I mean that everybody goes for the most attractive member of the opposite sex they can get. Everybody likes to say that they choose their partners based on "what's inside"(Mahlina). Yeah, that is somewhat right, and somewhat completely wrong.

 

My theory of the week: It's a 2-part attraction process. Part one: find someone pleasing to look at. We humans are visual creatures, we are stimulated by things that please our eyes, and nothing pleases someone's eye more than a good looking potential mate. So, There's a pretty girl who knows that she can have virtually any guy she wants. She has a choice between the mediocre looking guy and the strong, healthy looking guy. Since part one of attraction isn't about personality, the strong healthy guy is the winner.

 

It isn't until deeper into the relationship, which may be a matter of days, that she comes to part two (personality) and realizes that the guy is a jerk, a *beep*, a brainless womanizer. So she dumps him, and she starts the process all over again. She meets a guy the following weekend, he looks strong and healthy, and while she is wary about how smart and nice he is, part one of the attraction process isn't about personality...

 

So you see? Don't underestimate looks. I myself am a relatively unpopular 'nice guy', but If I had a choice between a girl I found attractive and a girl I found unattractive, I would approach the attractive one first. Visual animals. 2-part attraction. It's not that hard to figure out.

 

Of course there are exceptions, but they are just that: deviations from the typical behavior. And in the college/high school world, that typical behavior explained above is especially prevalent. And don't think that nice girls are innocent. I met a shy, nice girl once who had rarely ever dated. We hung out, and I told her she was nice, and attractive, and she seemed to be interested in me. BUT, after that she stopped talking to me, and a few weeks later she had a strong, healthy (see above) boyfriend. And a few weeks later, they broke up. I gave her confidence: she could have me, or she could hold out for something better looking, something bigger, stronger...maybe even richer. For a pretty girl, the sky's the limit. This is just a story of what happened to me. Remember typical behavior and exceptions, blah blah blah...

 

I guess what I want to say is, don't kid yourself. Find a girl who makes it through both stages of attraction and still fancys you. They exist, but they will be harder to find. The only alternative: drink a lot of alcohol, lift weights, and hang out with morons who do the same.

 

As for the A-holes vs. wussies theory, I won't even acknowledge it with an argument. And Mahlina, nice guys aren't a rare gem. They're everywhere. Just shield your eyes from the jerks.

[mahlina]

Chesnick,

Everybody likes to say that they choose their partners based on "what's inside"(Mahlina). Yeah, that is somewhat right, and somewhat completely wrong.

 

Did I say that I dig my man purely based on the 'inside'? No. I must agree, there has to be some kind of attraction! But did I mention, my ex had a big face, big nostrils, and thick lips! Not to appealing for me! But somehow, the chemsitry was there! I think that in that case, yes, I did love him for his life, struggles, etc., but he was decieving! Perhaps Chesnick, it's probably where I live! I live in an area, in which it's hard to find people who are not so fixated on the 'image' so to speak. So, I am quite entitled to feeling the way that I do! To me, the 'nice' genuine guys are hard to find! Especially in my area, because they like to emulate the shallow way of life! I really wish I can meet a nice guy from UCBerkeley or something! Smart, knows what he wants, respectful, and doesn't try to make a point by putting others down! I really like a guy who can be humble, and a genius at the same time. I wish I can find that perfect chemsitry! So, not in any part of my writing, did I mention liking a guy just for his 'inside.' I think it's a combo of everything from physical attraction, mental stimulation, and emotional bonding. To me, loving a guy who is a '6' or '7' is not loving him just for the 'inside'! 6 or 7, is 'average.' That's what I like! Guys who are average, but if he does have the looks, then I don't mind. Whatever it is, averageness is satisfactory, for me, "lookswise"! When I get to know a guy, and love him for who he is, the bar moves up from averageness, to hotness!

 

Mahlina

[kungfumaster]

Nice guys always think they finish last - its just simply not the case. It is only in THEIR OWN MINDS that they finish last. They have to change their view of "finishing last" to finishing with their heads held up high knowing that they have tried their best within their own limits and their own goodness, and the fact that they did not compromise their core beliefs just to get some action.

 

In turn, jerks finish first is simply not the case too because at the end of the day, they are lonely and loathe themselves because they have put so much time and energy into being someone which everyone including himself hates, and does it only because it will get him some action.

 

My one cent.

[JonnyG]

Well, i hav recently been tanning which was intially due for my ex as she liked tanned men, and all of a sudden loads more girls seem interested in me . So it aint being a good guy or bad guy, its the tanned guy that wins

 

Just need my ex to c me now

[Derek]

Chesnik posted about 2 stages to attraction, looks coming first, then personality...

 

Possibly, but you have to wonder, if everyone knows that looks are superficial in our heads, why do we have to be slaves to our biology?

 

BTW, I think girls sometimes like a guy to look good, but its often more for others to look at than for her to look at. (Meaning having a good looking guy on your arm means higher status because you can hook him)

 

It would seem that the smart guy or girl would learn to quickly evaluate the person beyond the looks in as short a time as possible. That is all about effective communication in as short a time as possible. (10 minutes to 1 date, to 1 night perhaps)

 

I think it is insightful to try to figure what was that element that was missing from the happiness of the lady who dumped the "nice guy"

Was it passion? What does that mean? Can passion be learned?

Can it be nurtured and develop from a starting frienship?

 

 

[spatzcolumbo]

I agree to a certain degree about the 2 stages of attraction - for the most part the thing that attracts you to someone is the look - there has to be something you find visually appealing, or you are less likely to give the personality side a chance. Having said that, its clearly not quite as black and white as that...

 

...Blind people still fall in love!!!

 

In their unconcsious thoughts, people naturally gravitate towards certain people. Our instincts tell us to select certain people - people we feel will meet our needs and desires. A large part of this IS based on how that person looks. But then of course, our perceptions change as we grow and change. How many teenage guys go through (and never come out of) the 'barbie doll baywatch' phase. They want a blonde with an hourglass figure. Trophy.

 

I think a hell of a lot is based around social stereotypes. And so many people follow these stereotypes of what they should be looking for.

[GimmeASpork]

Nice guys don't go for the nice girls either, i think it's some sort of twisted karmic thing. Heh.

[Stefi]

I truly believe a big part of the picture is confidence. I think that the "bad boys" have too much of it-- they tend to be arrogant. With this comes thinking that you're always right, believing that you don't owe anybody anything emotionally, in summary, being selfish overall. The problem is, these things are not immediately apparent to a potential mate, and as we all know, we tend to put our best face forward when trying to attract someone. So women faced with one of these guys will not see "the dark side" right away, and when they do, they still think they might be able to "change him".

 

Nice guys (the ones I've met), on the other hand, may have confidence, but don't show it, because they're so concerned with pleasing the other person so much.

 

I go for the nice guys almost always, but it can be frustrating to deal with:

 

In my experience, when I've met a self-proclaimed "nice guy"- I've noticed that he'll bend over backwards to please me, to make me happy. But the irony is, is that it DOESN'T make me happy (although I appreciate it), it just makes me feel that they have no goals or desires of their own other than to make sure my every need is met. And here's the thing, I want a partner, an EQUAL. I want a man who'll ask for what he wants. A man who'll disagree with me sometimes. A man who isn't constantly looking for or asking for signs that I approve of him, but that assumes and is confident that I do based on the fact that I'm with him and only him.

 

If a man is constantly just trying to please me, I feel uncomfortable, because it doesn't feel like he's my "man"- it feels like he's trying to father me. Part of having this confidence, is knowing when to be assertive about your own wants and needs and when to give in to your partner's.

 

A nice guy doesn't have to act aggressively to show his confidence, if he has it, it will be noticeable in most everything he does, from the way he respectfully argues with me about something ( ) to the way he holds himself- straight and tall, as he stands in line to get us tickets for a concert.

 

I don't know... nice guys just do it for me!

Stefi