How can a married man with a jealous wife maintain close female friends?

[Kantriakhor]

 

You are a guy, is it so hard to make close guy friends?

 

Making friends and making hook-ups are two different things, being married doesn't mean you must stop making friendships, regardless of gender. Personally, I find the vast majority of males I meet in real life to be annoying, vapid, and not worth forming more than the most casual of acquaintances with so my friends by-and-large are female.

 

Presenting the case that the OP is a guy so he should make guy-friends makes me ask this question:

 

If genders were reversed and a husband was telling his wife to stop making male friends, wouldn't the majority here be saying that the husband is trying to control her regardless of whether or not the girl talks about it? It's this double standard I find intriguing.

 

I agree that telling your wife of ever conversation borders on being annoying, unless she *wants* you to report on every move you make and if so then that's an issue all on its own. However, I see no reason to stop making friends especially when it's not broaching infidelity.

[Lowconfidence]

Making friends and making hook-ups are two different things, being married doesn't mean you must stop making friendships, regardless of gender. Personally, I find the vast majority of males I meet in real life to be annoying, vapid, and not worth forming more than the most casual of acquaintances with so my friends by-and-large are female.

 

Being married should mean you respect your SO's wishes. Sure, you shouldn't stop making friendships because of gender. But at the same time you shouldn't target certain genders for friendships.

 

To me, it sounds like the OP wants a secret harem of close girl friends.

 

And if it was a married woman who purposely tried to find only close male friends, I say the same thing. It's wrong.

[Dragunov-21]

Jono - You said you aren't going out of your way to make female friends - that's good enough for me. If you are, then our advice will mean nothing anyway.

 

I'd avoid mentioning every girl you meet and get along with to her - it's obviously not working as a totally open approach. If you wouldn't mention a friend you'd met to your wife if it was a guy, don't mention it if it's a girl.

 

To everyone else. I'm a guy who has had, in the history of my life, about half a dozen close guy friends. I've had probably two dozen close female friends. It happens that I just click better (platonically) with girls, and I've accepted that it's probably always gonna be that way.

 

A girlfriend not being able to understand that and trust me is a total dealbreaker for me, and so far I've only come accross one who had a problem with it (the same one who tried to steal me away from every subsequent girlfriend, which I think explains it).

 

Think about it this way - does that mean a bisexual guy/girl can't have ANY close friends?!

 

When you marry someone you agree to spend the rest of your lives together - sexual exclusivity usually comes far before that, so I don't see why you're suddenly limited to only having friends of your own gender.

 

I certainly wouln't have a problem with my gf having guy friends - nor my future wife.

 

(and yes, I am p*ssed, I just never expected this would be the ENA party line - I've seen threads railing against "controlling husbands" who try and stop their gf's having guy friends, and it brings back some memories of bad times).

[BLUE SONG FLY]

LET ME JUST SHARE SOMETHING.

I was close friends with a couple. FOR YEARS. Originally with her, but i got to know him. as i was younger than them, i felt he especially was a bit fatherly to me, alth they were pretty hip.

 

Long story short, he said it was encouragement, but i would feel him commenting on my beauty, in front of her was wrong. and i saw that she was uncomfortable and i would say

so..but she would..'defend him' and 'say' she wasnt bothereed at all.

 

he would buy magazines of 100 best looking women, and call me over and say where i would be in the poll...and yet his wife would be there and i didnt feel it was right

 

but it was all done under the guise of 'we're friends...if a friend cant give a compliment...its a sad world'. but one cant ignore genuine discomfort feelings just cos someone says 'its ok'.

 

but that , in a way, is what he did. he really didnt believe it was anything but friendship.

 

then one nite his wife was away, they had a long haired cat..he couldnt handle..so his wife had asked me to stay...and since it was near to where i worked..i agreed.

 

he acted like a teenager! i was so upset by it. id beleived all this 'fatherely friendship stuff 'he d insisted on saying, despite me often saying it felt strange at times..the compliments in front of his wife.

 

he came into my room, and while 'asleep'(i wasnt, just closed eyes since he came in without my consent) kissed me full on the mouth. i just turned over, away from him, by the way i was asleep.freaked me out.

 

then next day i said this was not on. he explained it away...and then said he wanted to show me something...so thinking he'd heard me on that issue..i went into the den...only for him to have got a scene ready...quite pornographic..between a man and a woman he was having an affair with..wanted to be with..but his wife was on the scene.

 

i left the next morning..and i havent bothered with him or her since

 

my point in relaying this story is this....attatchments are formed...you dont know what is going on in the mind of another person..so no matter what you think is ok..they may see your 'very friendly' behaviour as a sign that the door is more open than it actually is.

 

it only takes to be a bit pissed off with your SO one day, and someone else..who you have deep attactment to...is there.

 

to think as a human being , one is beyond weakness, is foolish.

 

i believe if you are married...your SO should be your primary concern and that ita wisdom to not be meeting up regular with single women alone....

 

believe me..i never ..in a milllion years would have thought this guy i knew would have done the things he did, of which ive only told a couple of details...and yet..to this day..remains in denial about it.

 

he has called me a few times since then....and let it be shown for the record..each time he called...she was out

 

yet..in his head...nothing is wrong..its just friends

[Kantriakhor]

Being married should mean you respect your SO's wishes. Sure, you shouldn't stop making friendships because of gender. But at the same time you shouldn't target certain genders for friendships.

 

To me, it sounds like the OP wants a secret harem of close girl friends.

 

And if it was a married woman who purposely tried to find only close male friends, I say the same thing. It's wrong.

 

For the first couple lines, we target certain people as friends all the time. People choose certain faiths, certain political opinions, interests, sport interests, and even gender. There's nothing wrong with targeting friendships based on gender just like if one is a boston red sox fan not wanting to be friends with a yankees fan; it's perfectly normal.

 

To the stand alone line: girl friends, *not* girlfriends. He's not having sex or committing affairs so to accuse him as such is a bit presumptuous.

[Kantriakhor]

As terrible as your experience is, you're projecting what happened to be the case for any married man with female friends similar to how one scorned by cheating may think other people of the same gender cheat. That man was a liar and still is and even attempted an affair, the OP is not doing this. He lacks obvious tact but he's not fooling around so the connection you make is wholly false and based on only one experience you had with the only common link being that originally you were a friend of his, that man took it farther but the OP isn't.

 

My condolences for your experience but this is not the same situation that you're portending.

[BLUE SONG FLY]

Thanks for the condolence, really nice of you.

if you actually read my post tho...i didnt accuse the OP of the same thing. i was merely trying to point out that one should not presume that the attatchments one makes are as definitive as we think they are when we are making them.

 

there is always human frailty to take into account.

 

there will always be secret thoughts, either in one s own head or the 'friend's'

 

all i was saying was that a married person should exercise wisdom.....we would all be in denial if we said temptation didnt happen.

 

im not saying dont have female friends...just use wisdom.

 

i told my story because it was a classic case of him thinking something, not admitting it to himself....(cos its obviously wrong), and further down the line.....you know

 

denial can be very ellusive

 

just be careful

[greywolf]

actually, it sounds more like the guy was a big creep.

[BLUE SONG FLY]

HONESTLY...it sounds that way but he wasnt. really normal devoted to his daughter, very well thought of by everyone...not a bit creepy...no-one who met him would ever get that vibe off him...thats why it hit me so bad to be honest. he cared about so much...id bonded with him as a friend in great intelligent discussions etc....he so wasnt the archetypal creep AT ALL. He just had some deep denial going on..and eventually it started to come out.

 

If you ever met this guy...pillar of the community.

 

H e s just a person like any one of us who has a weakness...only that was his...i dont know his full story...to be honest it felt a bit like he wanted to 're-visit' some part of himself..that maybe he thought i represented ..being younger than him. it was selfish tho on evry level.

 

im just sayin this again to highlight ..you dont have to be a perv to just be weak at some point....so when you make your attatchments...just be wise..bear in mind your own weaknesses

[Kantriakhor]

That man wasn't weak, he was perverted and wanted to cheat on his wife. It's not a weakness.

[BLUE SONG FLY]

i never saw him like that..but maybe...

 

my point is tho...how does one know what is in a person we make an attatchment to?

its so well hidden at times....my only clue was an uncomfortable feeling sometimes..but i was told by him..AND HER...we are friends, dont be silly.

 

do you get me?

 

i decided to think i was being silly and that this his compliments etc...were just friendly affection..that i needed to learn to be more receiving of kindness and compliments.

 

with the OP, it could be that his girlfriend is simply insecure..maybe overly possessive because of that.

or it could be her instinct. that she is listening to...and maybe he cant see the harm.

 

in no way am i comparing the OP to that guy i spoke of..no not at all. but i am raising the question

 

how can one be so sure, that just cos we feel we are in control..that the other person we make our attatchment to is also?

 

for me cake is a weakness. if cake is in the house..i will have a to and fro of resisting for ages. sometimes i ll resist. sometimes i cant.

 

my other real question i want the op to consider is...'what are my weaknesses?'

 

just in case he finds himself in a to and fro that may jeopardise his relationship.

 

im not saying dont...but be wise

 

you should always trust your instincts.

[loulee]

perhaps you would be wiser concentrating your efforts on reassuring your wife at the same time you are making her aware of new female friends and acqaintences from work.. for example hi sweetie met a nice new girl at work today, but Ive gotta tell you she could never have a patch on you beautiful" God i missed you today..good to be home...see thats 2 jobs done at once.

remove the 'other women' threat.. through complimentary reassurance towards your wife at the same time your introducing the topic of a new female colleague you have met and like....

try it...do you also invite these colleagues along with their partners to do anything social with your wife and yourself..

[Kantriakhor]

Yes, but in this case the guy was a creep, I don't get it form this guy based on what he's told us. We can only go on the small amount we know about them. You had interactions with the man, the OP is not so involved with us.

[jonathanb222]

Thanks for the advice. Amidst the people who are only venting their only personal neuroses, there was some very intelligent perspective on how to handle it.

 

Part of the issue I have with my wife is a codependence problem that is happening both ways. It started when we first started going out and it's a balance we have yet to be able to restore. She expects me to share everything and has said that if I didn't tell her about female friends, she considers that as bad as cheating on her emotionally. Believe me - there was one female friend recently (whom she has met numerous times) she flat out said I couldn't hang out with anymore because she got a bad vibe. And if I didn't tell her about it, it would be as bad as cheating. So if I want to go grab a coffee with a friend who happens to be female, should I not tell her about it? And I definitely can't just spring it on her - "by the way, I never told you I'm friends with so-and-so, but we're going out for coffee while I'm waiting for your rehearsal to end." So if someone can help me figuring out when it's better to tell or not tell, or how to tell, please enlighten me.

 

However, in a show I'm in now, I see several married guys becoming good friends with the women in the show. Although I know I "could" talk to them and act that way with them, I don't because I worry about my wife's reaction and respect our relationship. I've been in situations when I was single (well before I met my wife) where I had the opportunity to have an affair with a woman in a committed relationship - and I couldn't do it. I have this voice in my head called a conscience that repeats my morals to me ad hoc. And no matter how hard I may try, I just can't break them. So I just listen to them. When I see behavior that I'm unsure is crossing the line - I tend to just presume it is and freeze the friendship so it doesn't go any further Then in time I start feeling distant from the person and the friendship falls off. So it is a psychological and social issue I'm struggling with. And I want to stop losing friends over being over-worrisome.

 

I wrote this original message to find out at what point feel an appropriate line is actually crossed, so I'm not so quick to cut people off. When I was single, it was easier because I wouldn't have to worry about crossing the line - I guess I just can't tell where friendship ends and unhealthy flirting begins (other than the feeligns that my wife owuld disapprove). And just because I feel it's wrong doesn't mean it is - mainly because I am currently stuggling with this social issue of cutting people out of my life. Every girlfriend I ever had just "happened," so I've never gone out of my way searching for women. And I feel if I were not so quick to shut people out, maybe I might be able to have more healthy friendships (and only shutting out those who would honestly threaten my marriage).

 

But that's why I'm in counseling. To find out how to live within this relationship without worry about conflict. But I'm not going to stop being friends with people just because they're women. I'm in agreement with the other guys on this board - I'm a romantic, a poet, a gentle soul who loves to listen - and I enjoy a sort of cultural middle ground- so I get annoyed with guys cheering at TVs in bars, or when they disrespect women, or (most) stupid action movies with no plot - I find women are more cultured and prone to listen to ideas. Being in the arts, there are many guys who feel the same way too - but we, as actors, generally live in a very odd neutral gender. The guys are more flamboyant, the woman are more sexually assertive - and they sort of meet in a very middle ground. My wife, though an actress, doesn't seem to live in that same neutral ground that many others do (other than her hanging out with guys).

 

And in regard to going out of my way to push my female friends on her - I talk about friends regardless of gender. You could plug in any person in the mock conversation I posted - just her reaction would be different. I talk to her about them the way my wife would talk about guys (or girls) in her day. No difference.

[BLUE SONG FLY]

'amidst the people....'

 

i think that is very rude. i have cared enough to invest something and to respond to you. if you dont agree...there is no need to ignore me , not speak directly and repond to me, calling me ..'the people'....very disrespectful.....a simple .'hi i dont feel i need to ask those questions...or thanks for your reponse but i cant really relate....would v been enuf

 

ignorant

 

 

im sorry if my sharing my experience offended you..it was done so to make you think, to raise questions...not to accuse..which i believe i re-iterated several times

 

i actually cared

 

best of luck with your friends and marriage..hope the counselling sorts something out for you

[greywolf]

'amidst the people....'

 

i think that is very rude. i have cared enough to invest something and to respond to you. if you dont agree...there is no need to ignore me , not speak directly and repond to me, calling me ..'the people'....very disrespectful.....a simple .'hi i dont feel i need to ask those questions...or thanks for your reponse but i cant really relate....would v been enuf

 

ignorant

 

 

im sorry if my sharing my experience offended you..it was done so to make you think, to raise questions...not to accuse..which i believe i re-iterated several times

 

i actually cared

 

best of luck with your friends and marriage..hope the counselling sorts something out for you

 

wow, he never said it was you.

[jonathanb222]

'amidst the people....'

 

i think that is very rude. i have cared enough to invest something and to respond to you. if you dont agree...there is no need to ignore me , not speak directly and repond to me, calling me ..'the people'....very disrespectful.....a simple .'hi i dont feel i need to ask those questions...or thanks for your reponse but i cant really relate....would v been enuf

 

ignorant

 

 

im sorry if my sharing my experience offended you..it was done so to make you think, to raise questions...not to accuse..which i believe i re-iterated several times

 

i actually cared

 

best of luck with your friends and marriage..hope the counselling sorts something out for you

 

 

I was not referring to you in "the people," blue song fly. Yes, the thread got derailed a bit - and that might be what you thought I was referring to - but I'm referring to the people who were using their paranoia about themselves and their relationships and projecting those emotions onto me.

 

But I was not referring to you in the negative.

[sugabug001]

Spend some time talking to your wife about the reason she feels the way she does then together set up some ground rules..things that she finds the most offensive or inappropriate about your actions with other women and boundaries for what she promises to be ok with..Hopefully this will help it you set these guidlines together and you both actually stick to them..But I would also suggest that you try to limit the women friends and try to keep them mostly business since you know it bothers your wife..Her feelings should be most important to you..

[BLUE SONG FLY]

i apologise.

 

however, it did feel like i shared details of my experience, which makes one feel a little vulnerable , and you, OP, made no attempt to acknowledge or answer anything i offered....and since what i offered did contain very personal information.....i believe it may be possible to see why i came to the conclusion that i was included in your general dismissal of 'the people' you considered paranoid and neurotic about their own experiences and who you felt were projecting those onto you.

 

it doesnt matter to me that you made no response to the questions i raised, but i did feel to respond to your general dismissal........i do apologise...i dont live in your head and things written down can be taken in wrong ways....but im glad i told the truth....it brought out the truth hey?

 

the truth will always set us free

 

just a little suggestion...when dismissing someone in the future, ...maybe tell them direct?...it takes the hazy/cloudy/vagueness away.

such vagueness involving an accusation, in my experience, throws a cloak of suspicion over everyone....so innocent people are cloaked too....its unpleasant and invokes less trust more fear of relating to the 'vague accuser'

 

of course feel free to erase all i have said...it is merely a suggestion, based on how it has felt being around you in this instance

 

no worries

[thin]

OP, It's been over a year, but this is a really good example of what seems to be going on in my relationship with my husband. He expresses a desire to be friendly with women and asks why he can't have women friends... I must say it would be a different story if these women friends were prior to our time together, long-term, but developing new relationships with women is something that I feel uncomfortable with him doing. Simple, innocent flirting is part of any guy-girl relationship, and it automatically crosses an invisible boundary without either party knowing. One day you'll wake up in love with one of these opposite-sex friends if you don't respect your wife's wishes because you'll grow to resent her. I say talk with your wife and respect her wishes. If you can't live with her wishes without feeling completely miserable, then you may have a bigger issue with the relationship as a whole. The way I see it is if one person has a problem with something in a relationship, it's easier for the person to just stop doing that thing. If the restrictions become to overbearing, then maybe there's no real love involved, maybe it's all control and you'd be better off without each other. When you truly love someone, you find a way to be happy. You give and take equally... maybe not on the same issue, but the favor is always returned. For example, if my husband asks me not to do something, I don't question him... I just do it because nothing matters more to me than him and if something's bothering him, then I can do without it. On the other hand, when I ask him not to do something he sees no point and I have to struggle with him to understand where I'm coming from, he becomes rebellious, etc. In the end, he finds out that what he did was more harmful to our relationship than it would have been to him had he just ended it then and there. Perhaps you're wife is trying to stop something from happening that she worries about. Maybe she feels silly talking to you about it because she feels like you'll dismiss the feeling as 'nothing to worry about'. The double-standard is something that should definitely be addressed though. If it's not right for one, it's not right for the other... trust issues, jealousy, etc. aside.

 

Let us know if any progress has been made... I'd love to know how the councelling has worked out.