Husband...help!

[blackglory]

I apologize in advance for the length of this!

My husband and I have been facing some difficulties recently.

There was an instance where he called a female friend from work. The situation was innocent enough- he told me what was said and why he even thought to call her (as she isn't someone he calls regularly). I was upset because he typically calls me at some point in his work day, but on this particular day he didn't have time to do so because they were too busy. But he called her? I felt jealous, threatened, and worried. I felt as though he had put her before me: giving her time that should have been mine. I also don't know this friend and though he had mentioned her before, he had never mentioned her by name or in the context of friends. Now, if I knew her and he had made the time for me that he usually does- there wouldn't have been a problem. Now when I told him I was upset about it; he blew up and told me that I wasn't controlling his life and telling him who he can and can't be friends with. I never mentioned anything about that, I just said that the phone call had upset me and I do not have a reputation with him for being controlling. He said that he could tell by my "tone" that I was accusing him- which I hadn't said anything about that either.

Second: After the above incident, he received a "bumpersticker" from the app on myspace from a mutual friend of ours who is a female friend (we are also friends with her husband). The bumpersticker was a short "film" that I only caught the last (about) 30 seconds of. I looked a little mushy to me and something that I wouldn't send to a male friend. I asked him why she was sending him something like that and he replied, "Don't f-ing go there." He exploded again and said that my tone was "accusing." Accusing who and of what? He couldn't answer. He repeated that I wasn't going to control his life. I asked him why he is so paranoid about me being controlling when he acknowledges that I'm not? The only answer that he could give me was that he felt like he couldn't spend time with his friends away from me. He works, goes to school full time, and we have a 15 month old. He is always complaining that he does have enough time to spend time with our son, with me, or to even sleep! Now he wants to split his time up more? I agree that it is healthy, but for now, in light of recent events- I am uncomfortable with it. After saying "spending time away from each other with friends," he mentioned that he would also want our son and I to come along also. It didn't matter either way to him.

We have kind of a cache 22 in our relationship: I can't trust him if he's not open and he finds it difficult to be open when he thinks someone doesn't trust him.

We both definitely have trust issues. The above doesn't help this.

I knew my husband as a friend prior to having a romantic relationship that led to marriage. He was always faithful and I saw him be nothing but a good boyfriend in his previous relationship. His time is accounted for, he goes to work when he says he does, brings home print outs of the work schedule, brings home clock out slips (none of which I require, btw, he just does it), there is no money missing from our bank account, and when he is out grocery shopping or visiting his Dad he calls and checks in regularly.

The only reason I have to feel suspicious is the way he has reacted to me questioning his female friends; which goes beyond defensive to outright combative.

I don't know what to think at this point. I know that he's not the type of person to cheat, physically or emotionally. I just don't understand all of his hostility towards me.

Thanks in advance.

[jenny_mcs]

His time is accounted for, he goes to work when he says he does, brings home print outs of the work schedule, brings home clock out slips (none of which I require, btw, he just does it), there is no money missing from our bank account, and when he is out grocery shopping or visiting his Dad he calls and checks in regularly.

 

Ok, I'll be blunt. I can't conceive of bring in a relationship where I felt I had to provide proof of when I left work, and also check in while I am grocery shopping or visiting a family member. It sounds like he is on a very short leash. Now, you say you don't "require" this (which is a very strange way to put it, in my opinion), then why is he doing all this checking in? It does not seem like something that would cross someone's mind unless their significant other had been suspicious or accused them of something.

[blackglory]

Ok, I'll be blunt. I can't conceive of bring in a relationship where I felt I had to provide proof of when I left work, and also check in while I am grocery shopping or visiting a family member. It sounds like he is on a very short leash. Now, you say you don't "require" this (which is a very strange way to put it, in my opinion), then why is he doing all this checking in? It does not seem like something that would cross someone's mind unless their significant other had been suspicious or accused them of something.

 

You're absolutely right. But in his case it comes from a previous relationship and he told me he wanted to maintain the action she required from him. I told him it wasn't necessary but if he felt better doing it, then to go ahead.

Thanks for the input!

[jenny_mcs]

Ok, so he is doing this stuff because of a past relationship. But he's still doing it. In some ways, it almost seems like this aspect of your relationship is very parent/child. He brings home his schedule. He brings home proof of when he left work. If he leaves the house, he calls to check in.

 

The problem with having a parent/child dynamic in your relationship is that eventually, the person in the role of the child rebels. It comes in the form of explosions, and sometimes inappropriate behavior.

 

You need, imo, to get this relationship back on track, with 2 adults trusting each other and relating as adults. Which, to me, would include him stopping bringing home the punch-out slips, and you being OK with him leaving the house for a fe whours without checking in.

[blackglory]

Ok, so he is doing this stuff because of a past relationship. But he's still doing it. In some ways, it almost seems like this aspect of your relationship is very parent/child. He brings home his schedule. He brings home proof of when he left work. If he leaves the house, he calls to check in.

 

The problem with having a parent/child dynamic in your relationship is that eventually, the person in the role of the child rebels. It comes in the form of explosions, and sometimes inappropriate behavior.

 

You need, imo, to get this relationship back on track, with 2 adults trusting each other and relating as adults. Which, to me, would include him stopping bringing home the punch-out slips, and you being OK with him leaving the house for a fe whours without checking in.

 

Thanks jenni_mcs! I understand what you are saying and it makes a lot of sense. I don't know if him bringing that home or checking in contributes to the problem; esp. because it's something he has always done.

I think he feels like he is being open by doing these things. I don't want to discourage his openness by telling him to stop doing those things. That could send a mixed message and make our cache 22 worse.

My concern is more as to why he reacts the way he does with his female friends. If there is a parent/child dynamic in our marriage, I honestly don't know how it was created. I don't require that he ask "permission" to do things or throw a big fuss if I'd rather he spend time with me. The only thing I have asked him to do is to double check with me before making plans in case we've got a Dr.'s appt for the little one (which he likes to attend) or my mom is visiting, etc. Just to safeguard so plans stay on track. Largely I've found in more circumstances than this one that he is asking my "permission" when I don't feel as though he has too (like hanging out with friends!). I bring that up to him and he says he wants to ask anyways.

I don't understand why!

[Crazyaboutdogs]

He talks to you every single day from work...and ONE day...only ONE day out of 365 days he chooses to call a female friend instead of you, you are giving him the third degree...no wonder he blew up at you...I think YOU were the one over-reacting. Same goes with what another female friend sent him...just because she is a female friend, doesn't mean she can't send him something that might be a bit mushy...she was probably sending it in the spirit of friendship and had no designs on your husband. It sounds to me like you got very used to this parent-child relationship and feel very threatened by anyone who might disturb that imbalance. It also sounds to me like he has a lot of pent up anger and resentment in him.

[annie24]

i agree - bringing home the work schedule seems more parent/child as opposed to husband/wife. i think you two should trust each other more, unless given a reason not to trust. i don't think that the myspace video was inappropriate, it doesn't sound like something that would cross the line. i might, for example, send my male friend a mushy video if it was about cats, because he really likes cats, or some other inside joke, but it doesn't mean i want him!!! not at all!!!

 

i agree with telling him to stop with the schedule, and just trust each other more. until you have reason not to.

[blackglory]

i agree - bringing home the work schedule seems more parent/child as opposed to husband/wife. i think you two should trust each other more, unless given a reason not to trust. i don't think that the myspace video was inappropriate, it doesn't sound like something that would cross the line. i might, for example, send my male friend a mushy video if it was about cats, because he really likes cats, or some other inside joke, but it doesn't mean i want him!!! not at all!!!

 

i agree with telling him to stop with the schedule, and just trust each other more. until you have reason not to.

 

Thanks all, I appreciate the input.

 

I could understand the work schedule being a problem if it was something that I required from him. If it's something that he's volunteering because he wants to do it, I fail to see how I am creating that problem. Our trust and comunication has been broken down by this series of events. One was a simple question; the other a statement about my feelings. His reactions are what have caused me to distrust him.

I don't think there is anything wrong with me knowing what is being discussed between him and his friends. I don't ask about every little thing, nor do I expect a full report. But if I ask a question and the answer is innocent...why the anger? The myspace thing was a misunderstanding; the problem was that he blew up about it before finding out why I was upset and why I didn't understand it. After he calmed down and played the video, I saw that it was nothing to worry about (seeing as I had only caught part of it). The problem is that he didn't bother to find out where I was coming from before blowing up about it and jumping to conclusions. Furthermore, I don't think I was wrong to question it. I don't think he should get mad if I do because it doesn't automatically mean I think something is going on. Sometimes a simple question is just that and he seems to be reading too much into it. I also think that I clarified my position on the phone call- there is nothing wrong with me knowing who my husband is friends with or who he talks to or who he wants to spend his time with. In fact, I have the right to know because I'm his wife, and vice versa the same for him. Aside from how I felt about the situation- making social phone calls while on the clock is inappropriate and unprofessional. My reaction may seem like an "over-reaction" to some, but I disagree. I wasn't * * * * * ing at him about it, nor was I accusing him of anything. I was simply telling him that I was hurt by it. Maybe some of you wouldn't be hurt by something like that; but circumstantially, I am. The circumstances in that situation hurt me.

 

In all of his previous relationships, the woman was very much in control. This is not so with he and I. I can't help but feel as though he believes that I am the same as them. I think this is why he brings a copy of the schedule home and his clock out slips. What good does it do for me to tell him not to if he is going to do it anyways?

[jenny_mcs]

Well, I can see you are stuck on the fact that you are "right" despite several people on this thread trying to point out that they can completely see and understand your husband's point of view.

 

Your husband, imo, feels very controlled and micro-managed and treated like a child, and that is why he is lashing out. You feel it is OK to know what he discusses with his friends, to question and monitor his MySpace usage, and to lecture him about making social phone calls when on the clock at work. If you can't see that this is how a mother treats her son, and not how a wife treats a husband, then there really isn't much more to say.

 

But I would expect, given what you've posted, that unless you stop your behavior, his anger and resentment will continue to build.

[Sn0man]

If I went to the trouble to bring home work slips and schedules, checked in regularly and all that jazz (which I would never do btw), and then had to come home to a wife who tells me shes upset about me not calling for 'one day' and then questioned me about something as simple as an email forward, i'd blow up too.

 

You seem to have him under your thumb, watching his every move (you mentioned you had no money missing from the bank account - do you track his coffee purchases as well?). Even though you say you do not 'require' him to bring home these work slips, it sounds as though you expect them. I'll bet he thinks you do.

 

I don't know how anyone can function in a marriage as restricted as this one sounds. Sounds like hell to me.

 

If you don't want him blowing up at you, back off - way, way off.

[blackglory]

He talks to you every single day from work...and ONE day...only ONE day out of 365 days he chooses to call a female friend instead of you, you are giving him the third degree...no wonder he blew up at you...I think YOU were the one over-reacting. Same goes with what another female friend sent him...just because she is a female friend, doesn't mean she can't send him something that might be a bit mushy...she was probably sending it in the spirit of friendship and had no designs on your husband. It sounds to me like you got very used to this parent-child relationship and feel very threatened by anyone who might disturb that imbalance. It also sounds to me like he has a lot of pent up anger and resentment in him.

 

Thanks and I appreciate your response. The truth is, I wasn't giving him the 3rd degree about it. I just said that I was hurt by it.

I don't see why a female friend WOULD send something mushy. 9/10 guys aren't interested in stuff like that anyways. Plus, just because she might think that it is ok, doesn't mean it is. My husband would question the situation just like I did if he thought it was similar to what I thought it was- which, again, I found out it wasn't. Different people have different "rules" for their relationships. For example, I don't send "mushy" things to my male friends because A: They're probably not as interested in mushy or tear-jerker stuff as they are in something funny; B: How much is it really going to bother him if I don't send something like that? Probably not at all. C: I don't know the "rules" that my friends have for their marriages so I stay in "safe ground" because I don't want to cause problems; and D: Those "rules" are none of my business- hence I stick to stuff that is rather arbitrary unless I send it to BOTH my friend and his wife. I was raised with a specific sense of propriety and an old fashioned one to boot (for example, it would be inappropriate for me to hang out with a male friend unless in a group). The list above is also what I have learned about guys as friends. This was my confusion about the myspace thing. I can understand and accept when people don't think the same way I do. I just don't see anything wrong in questioning where that person is coming from. After all, this tends to be how we learn that someone thinks differently than we do.

As for the "parent/child imbalance I am here seeking advice on what the problem is and how to correct it. I'm not entirely convinced that this is the issue, but from what jenni said, it does make sense with what I do know about his past relationships. It seems to me as though he is behaving in ways that he has in his past, which could be the cause of that. If he has pent up anger and resentment towards me for it...well he shouldn't. I don't require those things from him- that is what he does. He says, "I'm just going to ask you." I say, "Why? You don't have to ask." He says, "I'm just going to do it anyways." Perhaps if he would stop asking me to do things (simple things like having a beer), and simply clarify his plans (or just say, I had a couple of beers at so-and-so's house)- it would take care of things. No matter how "used to" something I am; I am here because I want to make a change and don't know where to begin!

[blackglory]

Thanks for your input.

No, I don't track his coffee purchases But we manage our money together. THAT'S how I know.

You bring up an interesting point. Despite that I first told him that I didn't care if he brought those clock out slips home or not (honestly I don't even look at them, I just throw them away), he may think that because he has been doing this for so long that I expect it. Honestly, I could still care less if he brings them home or not. He brings home his schedule- well, that I need to know so he and I can plan errands, appointments, and social events accordingly. He doesn't memorize it so he brings home a print out (which is how his manager usually passes it out) or he writes it down.

Truth be told, our marriage may be restricted in some ways- but not in others. Do you think he would still be here if it was as bad as it sounds? It's difficult to explain the all the ins and outs to every aspect of a marriage.

 

To all: I really appreciate that you can understand my husband's point of view, and I appreciate where each of you have pointed out something that I am doing wrong; but I am not just looking for what I exclusively am doing wrong. Is it not counterproductive to blow up at someone who is hurt about something? Wouldn't it be a better situation for he and I to address the issue, or any issue with understanding and concern?

[blackglory]

Well, I can see you are stuck on the fact that you are "right" despite several people on this thread trying to point out that they can completely see and understand your husband's point of view.

 

Your husband, imo, feels very controlled and micro-managed and treated like a child, and that is why he is lashing out. You feel it is OK to know what he discusses with his friends, to question and monitor his MySpace usage, and to lecture him about making social phone calls when on the clock at work. If you can't see that this is how a mother treats her son, and not how a wife treats a husband, then there really isn't much more to say.

 

But I would expect, given what you've posted, that unless you stop your behavior, his anger and resentment will continue to build.

 

I understand your point. The way I see things is like this: knowing what he talks about with his friends (which he usually tells me anyways) and him answering simple questions as openness, not control or acting like his mother. You bring up a good point; perhaps what I see as openness is what he sees as control?

 

He is trying to be promoted to management. The point of the "unprofessional" comment was because they aren't going to promote someone who spends company time unwisely. That wasn't me telling him what to do; that was me giving him advice about his job because I've worked in management before. Though, I can see how he may have taken it in a way that is other than what I meant it.

[iya]

Your husband sounds like a very busy man. He works, he studies, he's a husband, a father, a son and a friend. Now, you have to understand that with his pretty hectic schedule, he needs to have time for himself too. You have to let him do his personal stuffs as long as he doesn't violate the "moral/rules." Also, don't put too much restrictions in your relationship - it's not healthy for both of you as well as your baby and worse, he might eventually run away from you.

 

If you're feeling a bit insecure about what's happening, tell him but don't nag. If you really love each other, you can talk things out. About his female friends, let him know that you want to meet them. Maybe invite them for a picnic or a house party. But I think your husband will only be comfortable introducing his friends to you if you are comfortable with that too. Seems like he sees and feels the tension that's why he acts like that.

 

Being a couple doesn't mean you have to be together and talk to each other all the time. You're definitely 2 different people and you have your own hobbies & interests. It doesn't mean he has to do whatever you like and vice versa. Both of you can do your own things but in the end, still find a way to enjoy other things together to grow as 2 individuals & as a couple. Feel free, be happy & learn to compromise...breathe some fresh air.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I mean no offense, but if your attitude in your marriage is anything like your attitude in all your posts in this thread, I can see why he is getting angry. Nothing seems to be your fault, everything seems to be down to him....he is willingly putting his entire life under scrutiny for you and you have absolutely nothing to do with it...sorry, I am not buying it. You are as much to blame in all of this. Your posts keep twisting and turning blame back on to your husband...you keep doing the "yeah but...." arguments. Yes, your marriage is indeed one of parent-child...both of you at fault for that...given your reaction to these two innocent things, it is clear that you have expectations of monitoring all the other things as well, despite your assertions here that you do not request that of him. This is your marriage and your business..but all the posters responding to you have the same take on your relationship. You can choose to ignore it, make excuses for yourself and do the "but but but..." excuses like a motor boat, but the fact still remains is that if you don't show him trust and give him independence these blow ups will come more frequently and your marriage could end up in serious trouble. Your choice.

[jenny_mcs]

 

He is trying to be promoted to management. The point of the "unprofessional" comment was because they aren't going to promote someone who spends company time unwisely. That wasn't me telling him what to do; that was me giving him advice about his job because I've worked in management before. Though, I can see how he may have taken it in a way that is other than what I meant it.

 

Well, in your original post, you said the reason you were upset & hurt that he called this friend is that on that certain day, he did not call you from work, which he usually does every day. So, it's not unprofessional to call you every day form work, but he gets the lecture about "using company time unwisely" because he called a friend.

 

I understand that you are frustrated with him lashing out at you, and you want advice about that. But everyone here is telling you is that he is lashing out because he probably doesn't feel like he has a single second of his day that isn't monitored and controlled, and gets lectured and questioned about things.

 

I'm not saying that you consciously set out to control your husband to a degree, but you do. It seems like in the beginning, he was a willing participant in this parent/child dynamic. Now it is frustrating to him.

 

I think you need to just drop this "but wasn't he wrong to yell at me?" Just leave it. I think you need to sit down with your husband and express to him that there are some unhealthy patterns in your marriage right now that you have both participated in. Suggest that he stop binging home his punch-out slips. Let him know he doesn't have to check in with you when he leaves the house for a while. Acknowledge that even though you both have busy lives, you do need some time as individuals. I think that would be a good start.

[annie24]

yeah - i was thinking the same thing! why is it unprofessional for him to call a friend, but not to call you? i don't know where he is or where he works, but i know at least in my workplace, making a short personal call isn't unprofessional at all.

 

i agree, time to back off and give him some room. he hasn't done anything that indicates he has violated your trust and making him feel like a prisoner isn't going to help things at all.

[jazzy_b]

Well slipping out on calling once should not be counted as an offence. And I think he brings home the slips coz he already knows that if he doesnt or stops doing it you will start questioning. I think he is being considerate to you and your feelings and of course hedging himself out of any tensions.

I do understand your concern about him calling a female friend. But since he is not regularly doing that I dont see an issue here. I guess you have to give him some space and swallow the insecurity about this friend for a while.

 

See how it comes up. Im sure this will not be an issue and you will realize in time that not pushing him to hard was a good decision.

 

Good luck!

[blackglory]

yeah - i was thinking the same thing! why is it unprofessional for him to call a friend, but not to call you? i don't know where he is or where he works, but i know at least in my workplace, making a short personal call isn't unprofessional at all.

 

i agree, time to back off and give him some room. he hasn't done anything that indicates he has violated your trust and making him feel like a prisoner isn't going to help things at all.

 

He called the friend while on the clock- not on a break. He typically calls me on his break.

[annie24]

ok, but why a big deal about 1 call one time? now, if he's constantly talking to her and not calling you, i think that's a bad sign. but if 99% of the time, he calls you and does not call you, i think it's fine. my 'cheating radar' isn't being tipped off in your case. was his call to her at all work-related?

[blackglory]

That "scrutiny" goes both ways. His expectations of me are very similar. He would be upset if I was contacting a male friend (if he was not aware of the friendship) rather than him or giving someone else time that he feels should be his.

He has read through the posts (because we are open)that you all have contributed. He said that he disagrees with you and everyone else who has brought up the element of the parent/child dynamic. The only person who he thought put forth quality advice is iya.

As I stated previously: He does not do those things because I ask him to; he does them because he wants to. He still wants to do those things.

[blackglory]

Thanks for your advice. My husband also read through it and we both found some tid bits of wisdom that will work for us.

[Ms Darcy]

Hi there BF,

 

Hope I'm not too late to offer some input.

 

I have to say that both you and your husband have some valid points here. For you, I think it's completely ok to say that you should feel ok with bringing up concerns without feeling an angry outburst from your husband. For him, I think it's completely ok for him to feel confined and constricted in this situation.

 

I think it's fair for you to sit down and define what a communicative, connected relationship means for both of you. My partner, personally, has an open book policy which I very much agree with. He logs onto his social networking sites in front of me and I leave my computer available to him. We're not married, but what I'm saying is that not every relationship 'looks' like ours. We've defined our terms of trust.

 

What I sense from you is that you want a close connection. It isn't about the details, ie knowing when he punches out at work etc, it's about feeling like a full partner who holds a place in his thoughts when he makes his decisions. On the website link removed, they refer to it as 'having a place in each room in his house.' In other words, you want to feel like you matter to him. I would suggest that you go to this site, work with him, and try to come up with some solutions that make you both happy.

 

What I sense from him is ... well, frustration. Nothing that he does will make you happy despite going through great lengths to make you happy. Ironically, he's giving you things you didn't ask for and not giving you the things you want. Thus, growing mutual resentment. No one wants to feel controlled and stifled by their partner; that makes for a castrating marriage.

 

This will take some compromise on both sides. I think you need to dial back the questioning a bit. Give him a little more space and trust. Encourage him to NOT bring home timesheets or keep account of his whereabouts. But do ask for what two or three things you'd really such as a daily phone call. Secondly, don't give him professional advice unless he asks for it. Seriously. Sometimes we just want our partners to listen to our struggles and not to fix them. He has things for his list too. Ask him what those are. Then write them down and make this a pact. That's what I would suggest as a start.

 

I hope this helps.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

That "scrutiny" goes both ways. His expectations of me are very similar. He would be upset if I was contacting a male friend (if he was not aware of the friendship) rather than him or giving someone else time that he feels should be his.

He has read through the posts (because we are open)that you all have contributed. He said that he disagrees with you and everyone else who has brought up the element of the parent/child dynamic. The only person who he thought put forth quality advice is iya.

As I stated previously: He does not do those things because I ask him to; he does them because he wants to. He still wants to do those things.

 

 

Actually, the advice that everyone else put forward is indeed quality advice for a healthy relationship...but for two people in a co-dependent relationship that quality advice would be seen as not quality because it goes against what co-dependency is all about..and co-dependents tend to be in denial and view their relationship as healthy despite the stifling nature of it. I have met people with relationships like yours and the the drama you just had is pretty typical when one person diverges 1 mm from the standard "protocol". To each their own.

[blackglory]

Well Ms Darcy you've hit the nail on the proverbial head! You're exactly right. Bringing home his clock out slips just shows me that he was at work- not that we have that close connection.

I really appreciate your input. He already knows that I don't care about the clock out slips, but if it's something that he really wants to do, I'm honestly not going to stop him. The important thing is, I think, that I don't make him feel like he HAS TO. The print out of his schedule is how his manager passes out the schedule to everyone at his work. Obviously, he would rather just bring that home than write it down when it's already printed out for him.

You and your partner seem to have a similar idea to what my husband and I have. He has the passwords and user names to all of my online accounts (vice versa the same) and is free to view them whenever he wants. Some may believe this is "co-dependent", but I don't feel that way.

He DOES, however, get irritated if I view any of his. He believes it is because I don't trust him. I'm not going to sit here and claim that I have never viewed any of his accounts because I was feeling insecure. But that is me seeking reassurance; not necessarily that I'm "checking up on him" to make sure he's not doing anything he's not supposed to. I know that I'm not going to find anything out of place. Sometimes, it's reassuring for me to see that with my own eyes. I don't get upset with him if he ever views my accounts. Which I'm sure he has but just doesn't tell me about it.

You're right about the close connection. Unfortunately with all the fighting that has gone on recently, both of us feel more distant. It's not the actual events that have caused my issues with the situation- it's his reactions. No matter what I say to him- it just doesn't get through.

He agrees to ditching friends that we both see as potential (or who cause) problems. Marriage is hard enough without friends making it harder. He believes that the problem is resolved because he isn't going to continue a friendship with the "phone call" woman. I've suggested that it was going to take more than that to rebuild what has been broken. I've suggested ways in which he can do so, as a husband's job description doesn't include mind reading.

So far, he's not putting in the effort. I'm trying the best I can, but I can't do it all on my own.

Thanks again