The Good Guy Loop

[AABM]

I'm so tired of being the "Good Guy". It always happens. I just don't want to be there anymore, because it's really having an effect on my mood and "personal stability".

 

It seems I'm stuck in some sort of endless loop. I'll find a girl I like and then start to get to know her. At this point I always start trying to make my intentions obvious, but then I some how get routed right into the friend zone. Happens every time. The thing is, these are always girls I get along with really well, and they always tell me I'm such a cool and good guy. I'm just apparently never an option. I think it's because I'm sort of cautious about relationships and I never rush into them so I'm never that obvious of a choice.

 

I'm currently trying not to get stuck in this loop again. I've found a girl I get along with well. I went to school with her, currently work with her, and have been to a few parties with her. She's real cool and everything and I'm hopeful, but I fear it's going to be the same old. She recently got out of a bad relationship, and now she says she wants a less serious one with some one who is cool and not an "ass". Our mutual friend(who happens to be another girl I got "friended" by) suggested we date. This sparked a bit of hope in my mind that I should move in. So, I threw her a birthday party since she couldn't have one herself. She was really excited and thanked me so many times. The party happened and it wasn't bad. I was honestly considering asking her out, but after a while she started talking with one of her friends about how she wants a good looking guy and all that superficial jazz. Needless to say I'm a bit disappointed. Now I'm really feeling iffy about it and I guess I just want any advice I can get on how I should handle this situation, because I just feel so tired of chasing girls who never see me as anything other than a friend.

[Raistlin]

AABM, I'm right there with ya. I'm always getting "friend zoned". But I don't let it get me down. I used to, but not any more.

 

Short story:

 

I was ALWAYS shy in school. I never talked to girls or made any sort of approach at all. In fact, my 2 best friends had to practically force me to talk to my ex.

 

My ex and I met online. When push came to shove, I picked up the phone and called her when she gave me her number, and we hit it off. We dated for over 2 years, and it started with an innocent conversation.

 

Not long after we broke up, my 21st rolled around. My friends took me to a local pool hall, and without even trying (and ONLY because I decided to say "screw it" and I opened my mouth) I walked out of there with my waitresses number.

 

About a week after that, I met a girl through a friend. This girl is a lesbian, but she really likes me. We've kissed, and she's made.. passes... at me several times.

 

About 2 months ago, I started kickboxing. I met this really cute girl in class there. We started talking a lot and became fast friends. She shot me down when I asked her out because she's interested in another friend of mine that goes to kickboxing with me, but I tried. We're still good friends, and I think I'll have a shot with her in the future.

 

Keep in mind that ALL of this happened within the last 3 months.

 

Moral of the story: JUST GO FOR IT!

[Day_Walker]

First of all, every girl out there isnt an option and just because you have good vibes from a girl doesnt me that you are what she wants. The problem is that you are trying to find a girl that likes you enough to give a relationship a go. That needs to be a long term goal and as of right how all you need to do is increase the amount of female friends that you have. If a girl isnt interested in you then it isnt the end of the world there are plenty of girls out there, stop trying to make your intentions known, if a girl likes you she will let it be known.

 

Learn about women, what to look for when they are interested in a guy and learn when you dont have a shot. You need to allocate you resources more efficiently. It would also be in your best interest to stay away from a girl that you work with, be friendly with her but expand your dating pool and exclude people that you work with.

[AABM]

I'm not trying to get in a relationship with every girl I have an interest in. In fact, I would say I do the opposite and avoid a good portion of girls I like. It's just the fact that with the few who seem to return some form of interest, I never get any farther than just a friend. I honestly have no need of more female friends. I actually feel a little saturated in "friendship" to say the least. I've been through this loop well over a dozen times. I understand that not every girl is going to have the same feeling for me, but it just seems like every time I make any progress with a girl who does show that interest, I hit a brick wall and never make it any farther.

 

 

As for the work thing. That's not really an issue. In fact she was the one who kept asking me to work there. I don't see her daily there or anything, and if I do it's mostly just on breaks and such. I does provide a nice time to talk to her and everything, but I'm in no way forced to interact with her should anything go sour.

[LE DHUY NHUT]

You threw a party for her,this seems over the top and too friendly.Why not simply ask her out?

[AABM]

I had a party for my birthday(sort of) a few weeks before that she had been too. She seemed to want one too, so when I offered and she was totally for it. I was hoping it would make a good opportunity for me to make a move and at least test the waters, but because of the way she was acting at it I can say it only made me more nervous.

 

I can't ask her out for two reasons: First off, I have self esteem issues, hence why this is in this particular forum. I've never had a good relationship and I'm extremely cautious about making moves. I get real bad anxiety attacks when I interact on very personal levels so I have to pick my battles. Second, as I mentioned, she started listing all these superficial qualities that she liked in guys. I'm not a horrible looking guy, but I generally think I'm a little below average on looks and her outright listing things that I'm not just sort of chopped away at what little confidence I had that she might actually want to date me.

[george237]

Stop doing so much for the girls you like, build up some confidence and ask them out. I think your problem is that you think you are not worthy of dating these women, because of your self esteem issues, so you do something over the top in the hopes that they will think your this amazing person.

 

Truth is your only hurting yourself. I don't care who you are or what you look like if your confident about yourself and know how to talk to women (which it seems you already can do) you can get the majority of the girls you desire.

 

Next time you meet a girl you like ask her out that night. If she says no then go find somebody else.

[AABM]

*sigh*

I just wish I had that sort of confidence. My mind just always freaks me out too much to make it that far. I feel like there should be some sort of sign that says "I'm interested. Ask me out." that I just never get. I know there really isn't one in most cases, but it just always feels like something is missing and without that I never feel like it's going to be the right decision on my part to ask these girls out. My mind just sticks me with "It's better to have them as a friend than nothing at all" option.

[george237]

What is the worst thing that can happen she says no? It's really not that bad there are worse things that happen.

 

Make sure you stop doing things that are over the top for these women. Make the girl like you for you not what you can do for her.

[AABM]

I'm not doing anything over the top. I think I'm just way too nice. I completely understand your logic either way though. I've got make myself an option and not just question whether she would want the option. Now it's just finding a way I can overcome that bad habit. It's just hard not to be overly nice to her when that's my natural way of acting.

[george237]

I'm not doing anything over the top. I think I'm just way too nice. I completely understand your logic either way though. I've got make myself an option and not just question whether she would want the option. Now it's just finding a way I can overcome that bad habit. It's just hard not to be overly nice to her when that's my natural way of acting.

 

Well is she doing nice things for you? Did she throw you a party? Answer is prob not. My friend in college was the same way only dif was he dated the girls. All 3 gf's he had in highschool took advantage of him and 2 were cheating on him for months. It's a shame cause he's a great guy but he was just way to giving to his gf's and they took advantage of it.

[Salucious]

I wish I was in your situation, I need to befriend more cute girls! If I were you I'd try flirting with her first. If there is no sexual tension, or no flirtation between you it might be weird for her if you just ask her out. Because it would be a friend asking her out, which would be awkward for most people, men or women. There has to be attraction on both sides, so unless you start flirting with her, testing the waters, or know for a fact she is attracted to you, I would leave it alone. But like I said, if you start flirting and she responds by flirting back, you may want to go for it after some time. DON'T just hit her with it, she will turn you down because she won't want to jeopardize the friendship. Just my $0.02

[AABM]

While I would say I'm doing a bit more for her than she is doing for me, she's not taking advantage of me. In fact, of all my friends at the parties, she was always the only one to help me clean up and drive the trash to the dumpster in the morning. And she even drove all the way accross town to pick me up before her party when my ride ran late. So, I honestly don't think she's trying to use me.

 

 

As for the flirting. It's mixed. She's not a "flirty" person. In fact I would say she's sort of shy. Not as shy as I am, but she hates people touching her and she doesn't talk much unless you talk directly to her. Considering she was originally a friend of a friend, I've done an impressive job of getting to know her. I've talked to her face to face while alone a lot and there really wasn't any awkwardness, and I've talked with her online quite a bit. I'm sure by now she may suspect I like her, and I suspect the same of her, mostly because we get along so well and all, but I'd be willing to bet she's in the dark as much as I am right now. I'd think about making the move, but I guess I'd rather have a good friend for sure than risk it for a girlfriend. Probably not the most effective state of mind to get in a relationship with, but I just don't like making moves without knowing that they feel the same back.

[george237]

See what you are telling me can either mean she has a crush on you or she likes you as a friend.

 

I would just man up and ask her out for coffee. If she says no then just drop it and stay friends with her.

[AABM]

Well, I'm feeling a bit better about the whole situation. I've been getting some of those awkwardly cute smiles from her lately and after talking with her today she says she wants to party again sometime but with less people there. I'm taking this in strides to avoid the panic attacks, but if all goes well I'm to going to try to take the advice I've gotten here and just ask her out. It'll probably give me a heart attack, but I guess I'll have to do it sometime.

[george237]

Well, I'm feeling a bit better about the whole situation. I've been getting some of those awkwardly cute smiles from her lately and after talking with her today she says she wants to party again sometime but with less people there. I'm taking this in strides to avoid the panic attacks, but if all goes well I'm to going to try to take the advice I've gotten here and just ask her out. It'll probably give me a heart attack, but I guess I'll have to do it sometime.

 

There you go. If you go in there convinced that she will say yes you'll prob get the date. Go up to her when she is by herself and say "Hey _____ I just heard about this really good coffe shop if your free at 4 I would like to take you there.

[My Advice]

Alright

 

1. Don't believe anyone who says some people are destined to be alone. That's untrue.

 

2. Don't believe anyone when they say she will come, don't worry. You can get women that you desire alot, but you DO have to change your behavior, not your personality, but you need to change those thoughts and actions that make you express self-loathing.

 

3. presuming that picture is you, you are a good looking guy. Honestly. In fact, people who are ugly getting hot girls, I have seen it. So why isn't it happening to a good looking guy like you? Because your opinion of yourself is negative. Undoubtably because when you were younger you were made to feel ugly. Hell, you probably have your picture up because this is a safe place to get validation for it, nothing wrong with that.

 

Things you probably need to change.

 

1. Everyday you need to take yourself out of your comfort zone. Feel ackward and uncomfortable. Try to act confident but be prepared that rejection will occur, but the success you will eventually have will make you rejected less and get you girls you want. Not every girl. But alot of them, probably more than you ever dreamed.

 

1. When you see a girl that you are attracted to, find a reason to talk to her. Any reason. If she shoots you down, remember that is just another rejection away from becoming who you want to be. A confident happier guy who gets girls you are attracted to.

 

2. Show confidence. Smile and make eye contact. Talk about whatever you want. Smiling makes people feel good about themselves and it expresses self-worth.

 

3. Don't be too nice. And by that I mean don't be submissive. Be friendly. Be polite. But disagree with them. If they are histironic or rude when you disagree with them or express different interests, don't bother with them and walk away. You are more valuable than that. Unless religion or having the same politics is important to you, I might avoid that at first. If she wants to make plans with you, don't sacrifice things you need to do. It makes you look desperate. have a schedule and a focus. Act busy. Don't call too much. Wait at least a day to call 'sometimes', esp in the first time you get her number.

 

4. If they don't wanna talk, respect that.

 

5. Practice your voice. Don't be cheesy but find a pitch that sounds confident and use it.

 

6. Try to be funny if you are.

 

7. Show you are interested right away by flirting. Look for signs and not just one. Playing with their hair. Smiling alot. Laughing at your jokes. Touching accidentially or intentionally. Leaning towards you. These are usually signs however don't invest in her until you know she is interested in you and avoid investing too much until you are a pair. If you don't show interest soon enough you risk the friends zone.

 

8. Let them know you are interested early on and once you have been around them a few times try the kiss test. Touch her with interest but don't do it in sexual pervy places (breasts, ass, crotch). If she rejects you, give up and try someone else.

 

9. Never focus on just one girl. Don't be a player but be expressing interest in alot of girls at once. When a girl knows you are only into you it makes her less likely to be competitive. You also usually get stuck in the friends zone.

 

10. Don't be afraid to walk away. It shows you care and respect yourself. There are always other girls out there.

 

12. Don't think the girl is nasty just because she isn't interested. Its petty and demonstrates insecurity and narcassim.

 

13. If you get stuck in the friends zone it is very difficult to get out of. However it can happen, IF there is chemistry. Women don't always reject men they have chemistry with. Sometime you have been too nice, too interested, or it is just a case of bad timing (getting out of a relationship or they have a bf).

 

You can either

 

a) Give up and be happy with just being her friend. Don't be her friend. Or if you think there might be chemistry but you didn't show game, and that she is really worth it, put distance between her and stop showing you care too much. Stay away and come back down the line or don't answer her back very often. If you are absent for a while and she is single when you reenter her life then when you come back, be less available this time, not submissive, and make it obvious you can live without her. people often want what they can't have. People like what is a challenge. That is no gurantee that this will work but if she does find you attractive then it mathmatically increases the odds alot in your favor. If there is chemistry she will start to miss you, rethink her position, and see you in a new light. Don't tell her how you feel the next time but show her you are still attracted to her if you think she might be more into you now. However don't lie, don't put her down, and don't be a jerk.

 

Remember, you can't just expect them to fall into your lap, that by some miracle they will just come. Show interest and be proactive but let them invest in you before you invest more in them.

Everbody says just be yourself but nobody successful is game free. You can be yourself and be a little bit challenging. Not some poor sap who she "just wants to be friends with."

 

No matter how many times you mess up, no matter how uncomfortable you get, self-improvement leads to more success. You aren't sleezy for wanting sex and a girlfriend. They want it too (if they are healthy). You aren't perfect and that's okay cuz nobody else is either. Being rejected means you are on your way to getting what you want. It also means you are trying. And it says nothing about you personally. Know your worth.

[My Advice]

It's obvious its his approach, not the chemistry. he is destroying the attraction by doing more for them than they are ready to do for him. I also think he is acting too soon. Don't be their counciler. If they aren't interested then get scarce and they will often start to rethink things.

[AABM]

Well, I'm 100% sure she knows I like her at this point. My friend, the one who said we should date, told her today at work. This throws me off a bit and I have no idea what the response was. I guess it saves me trouble, but now I'm really unsure about what's going on. I'm not sure if I should approach her or inquire as to what my friend said first.

[LE DHUY NHUT]

Well, I'm 100% sure she knows I like her at this point. My friend, the one who said we should date, told her today at work. This throws me off a bit and I have no idea what the response was. I guess it saves me trouble, but now I'm really unsure about what's going on. I'm not sure if I should approach her or inquire as to what my friend said first.

 

Many times mutual friends hinder you when you confide in them.It's best to go for it on your own.

[MattW]

Here's the thing about me. Me, I HATE offending people, and I try to be friendly to everyone I meet. Unfortunately, it's hard to be "flirtatious" without risking the possibility of offending a girl. The worst part is, I know I could be very "flirty"/ "playful", but I just can't let that side of me out. Most of the time, I just come off as "shy" and/ or quiet. Haven't met a girl yet.

[AABM]

Many times mutual friends hinder you when you confide in them.It's best to go for it on your own.

 

Well, it turns out it wasn't as bad as I had thought. She didn't say anything about me liking her. She only suggested to her that we date. Still no idea as to what the response was, because she won't tell me. Not really sure what to make of it at this point.

 

Here's the thing about me. Me, I HATE offending people, and I try to be friendly to everyone I meet. Unfortunately, it's hard to be "flirtatious" without risking the possibility of offending a girl. The worst part is, I know I could be very "flirty"/ "playful", but I just can't let that side of me out. Most of the time, I just come off as "shy" and/ or quiet. Haven't met a girl yet.

 

I can get flirty, it just never seems to end up having the effect I wish it would. I've found most girls respond pretty well to playful flirting. Good thing too, because it's pretty much the only "non-friend" interactions I get with most of them.

[AABM]

Well, things are interesting. The mutual friend has definitely mixed things up a bit. A few days ago at work the friend told her that we should date. Well, the next day she actually told me about it. She only said it was an awkward conversation and that was pretty much it. No answer and she did noticeably seem to leave out any judgments on me or the possibility.

 

So anyways, I think the gods have looked favorably upon me. We were going to party again this weekend. Let's just say some things got messed up and it ended up dwindling to me, her, the mutual friend, and her boyfriend. I figured she'd leave as soon as she saw that no one was there. Well, I was wrong, she actually wanted to stay for a while. So we all went inside, started to drink a bit and then out of no where she wanted to play my Wii. Wii + Alcohol just makes for funny times. Anyways, she was having trouble playing, so I took the opportunity to sneak in some physical contact and joking while helping her play. Lots of subliminal flirting and such. They all left later on, but she did say that it was fun and she wants to come over and play it again. Who would have thought video games of all things were going to give me such a great opportunity with her!

 

Oh, and they work together today so I'm sure there will some conversation again. Hopefully it's a good one.

[Son Et Lumiere]

If you allow girls to use you then they will. The biggest mistake men make is the thinking that all women are decent, kind and friendly people. This is such a big mistake and the reality is that at least half of the women out there are anything but kind, decent and friendly...You should only respect a woman IF she respects you. Remember - you don't owe women anything. Be yourself, be cool and have fun and try your best to ignore women no matter who is around you at any present time.