Experiences with Borderline Women?

[Nearwater]

I have had what may be a break-through about why I feel so danged bad about my break up in May.

 

Give this a read removed[/i]

 

I am no doctor and do hesitate to try and diagnose my ex, as several posters have cautioned against, but this is become very clear. By leaving a good loving relationship for no clearly defined reason and attaching to a person that is clearly, with no doubt by any point of view using her my ex as a crutch in his upcoming divorce and to anger his wife.

 

With her childhood abuse history and reflecting on our talks for 3 years she seems to have the bpd traits to a T.

 

Her Rebound is emotionally unavailable, callous to his current wife and children and not very nice to my ex. This could not be more opposite of our life together. Reading that link set be back, or forward depending on how you see it.

 

Question- Can people exhibit varying degrees of BPD? Some of the listed traits describe her exactly and others have no bearing at all.

 

More than anything, MY reaction to her seems to fit exactly as described.

 

Thanks, just trying to muddle through another hard day.

[jettison]

Ok, so you've been broken up for 3 months. And as you break down and dissect all that went wrong, all that you could or couldn't have done differently, everything that she did or said that contributed to the demise of your relationship, you've now reached the current phase: You shrink her.

 

It's much easier to accept that someone has chosen to no longer be with us because they must have some kind of mental condition then it is to just admit that either we were not right for each other, or else they just weren't in love with us anymore. Our ego is spared when we imagine that it was really "insanity" that stomped on our ego so exquisitely.

 

I did this with an ex once. It turns out that she's a depressive with OCD. Go figurre. Maybe. Maybe not. She certainly has all the symptoms. It doesn't matter though. She chose not to be with me. Her reasons are her own, and whether they are "valid" is completely inconsequential. They are her reasons. Her life, her choice.

 

In this life, we rarely end up with the person with the best romantic resume, with the most sanity, with the nicest disposition. Usually, we end up with a person who makes our heart sing for some reason. It makes little difference why it sings, but only that it does. This quality can rarely be found on the romantic resume of an online dating profile. It's a quality that few people are particularly adept at puting into words.

 

Currently, you're longing for someone who wants someone else. And eventually, perhaps sooner or later, she'll be longing for another person who wants someone else. It's the classic fate that all of us endure at different times in our life.

 

Johnny Winters wrote a song once called "I'm Hers, and She's His." That about sums it up perfectly.

 

 

All that said, I wouldn't tell you not to do your "research" on your ex. If it gives you some kind of peace of mind then there's nothing wrong with it. However, don't make the mistake of sharing this info with her, ever. That's what shrinks are for. She's your ex-lover.

[Jeen]

Question- Can people exhibit varying degrees of BPD?

 

I don't know if this will help.

 

link removed

[nutbrownhare]

If some of the traits have no bearing at all, then a diagnosis of BPD is inappropriate. I work in mental health, and am very aware that if you look at the symptoms of 'personality disorders', we ALL have some of them. Whether we would receive a diagnosis of such depends on whether we are able to cope in the environment we inhabit.

 

My ex had an ex-partner who, according to him, was very troubled. His description of her made it sound as though she had BPD, and as though he had been really suffering throughout their relationship. During the course of ours, he would accuse me of all sorts of things - throwing rages at him, for example, and in the end I told him that some of the fabricated things he'd accused me of, made me wonder how much truth there was in his accounts of his relationship with his 'previous'. He was actually practising a lot of denial and projection.

 

I've since had the privilege of meeting the lady. Very vulnerable, yes. BPD, no. More to the point, she took entire responsibility for her part in everything that had gone on between them. And there was nothing she said about him which didn't 'fit' for me.

 

You cannot get over a relationship if you continue to feel like a victim and don't look at the part you played in the 'dance' - in fact this can be a really good starting point for personal growth. If you don't address the issues in yourself, you're likely to have another relationship with similar dynamics - until you do.

 

Wishing you all the best as you go through these painful times!

[jasper01]

It's normal to want to understand, and though a lot of folks discourage that I think it can be helpful. You need to be clear about where the motive comes from for it to be of use.

 

One reason we try to understand comes from a separating intent that seeks to shield you from the hurt, in other words rationalization - a defense mechanism. That intent is where the desire to put a label on what she is doing comes from.

 

Another is the intent to find understanding and forgiveness towards one you care about, which can be very helpful in the healing process. Unfortunately, it's not always possible.

 

As far as what she is, and what she is doing, it's clear she is deeply troubled regardless of what name you put on it. When you can see that with love and without anger, you will be on a good path towards healing yourself. It's hard, for sure.

[jettison]

To this end, what do you imagine the percentage is of men who call their ex-girlfriends "crazy"? 90%? 95%? I'm actually kind of shocked when I hear some guy say, "Yeah, she was great. She was completely sane. She just didn't want to screw me anymore. It was a rational decision considering I forgot her birthday two years running, I flirted with her best friend one time too many, and once got so drunk that I pee'd on her carpet in the middle of the night because I forgot where the bathroom was."

 

It's pretty universal. We all call our ex's crazy or psychotic even. After all, they MUST be crazy not to want to be with us anymore right? ;-)

 

All that said, I can assure you that, personally, all my ex's are completely flippin' nuts. Every last one of them.

[nutbrownhare]

To this end, what do you imagine the percentage is of men who call their ex-girlfriends "crazy"? 90%? 95%? I'm actually kind of shocked when I head some guy say, "Yeah, she was great. She was completely sane. She just didn't want to screw me anymore. It was a rational decision considering I forgot her birthday two years running, I flirted with her best friend one time too many, and once got so drunk that I pee'd on her carpet in the middle of the night because I forgot where the bathroom was."

 

It's pretty universal. We all call our ex's crazy or psychotic even. After all, they MUST be crazy not to want to be with us anymore right? ;-)

 

All that said, I can assure you that, personally, all my ex's are completely flippin' nuts. Every last one of them.

 

Hehehehehehe! Only 95%?

[ycmanvs]

Symptoms of BPD and PTSD are very similar because most of them are responses to abuse or neglect and trauma. A true BPD, however, is very hard to treat and if you've ever seen one, you would know it. They can be very volatile and their moods can go from loving to hateful very quickly. There are a number of great books on the subject. One of them is written by a woman with BPD and it is extremely insightful.

 

It is called "Get me Out of Here: My Recovery from BPD" by Rachel Reiland

[Nearwater]

"If some of the traits have no bearing at all, then a diagnosis of BPD is inappropriate. I work in mental health, and am very aware that if you look at the symptoms of 'personality disorders', we ALL have some of them. Whether we would receive a diagnosis of such depends on whether we are able to cope in the environment we inhabit."

 

Okay, I trust your expertise. What I am looking at is this:

 

-instant connection to someone clearly a very bad choice

-broke up with seemingly no remorse out of no-where, even after a week earlier

stating her intention to come home, missing being together ect.

- dropping her closest friends to leave town to pursue this, actually lying to a close one about the affair.

- childhood parental abuse without ever seeking counseling of any kind

- being a medical professional and having many personality conflicts at work

and jumping from job to job.

We talked extensively about her sister she has been estranged from for 20 years, she is an addict and declared an unift mother. Her half-sister is a bit better off but not much. She has done the best of the three, except in her relationships.

 

"As far as what she is, and what she is doing, it's clear she is deeply troubled regardless of what name you put on it. When you can see that with love and without anger, you will be on a good path towards healing yourself."

 

This is the most true statement, and what I am working towards.

[jettison]

Ok, even if all that's true, why is important to you, personally, to get this diagnosis of her? What will this accomplish? Do you picture yourself someday rescuing her somehow, getting her on meds, getting her back to her senses so she realizes her mistakes and comes back to you?

 

Considering the time that you're willing to invest, what's you're ultimate goal here?

 

Is if for her? Is it for you? Why?

[nutbrownhare]

The only way you can get through this experience and grow from it is to look at your own part in the relationship, and how you kept it going. There is no possibility of recovery while our main focus is on another and their behaviour.

 

I feel for you when you say you're muddling through another hard day (haven't we all been THERE!); you might like to do a search on 'codependency' and see if any of that fits for you.

 

Good luck!

[Nearwater]

YES! I have been in love with her for years. Until this bomb dropped we had a very fun, friendly relationship. I have been in many ltr's over the past 20 years and am, frankly, over giving up on relationships. If or rather when her rebound bombs, and IF she chooses to contact me, then I will feel out which road to go down. One of the long talks we had just after breaking up was along those lines, that neither of us had yet had a successful relationship, why not deal with our issues and move this one forward?

 

I got total agreement from her about our shared interests, friendship and mutual respect.

 

It is like another post I read about "losing each other to find each other" I don't want the role of the rescuer, I want to be side by side, dealing with our issues and healing.

 

My caring for her should transcend her seeming mid-life crisis and try to weather this.

I am not going to sit on my hands though, I am learning about the possible issues, working on my own and trying to feel better.

 

If she never contacts me, continues her spiral and we truly never see each other again, I will accept that.

[jettison]

I don't know what it is, but I just realized that every time I hear someone say the phrase "deep caring" or employ the word "transcend" when they are talking about a relationship, it is almost always a signal that things have gone bad.

 

Those concepts evoke deep thought, respect, admiration, etc. All qualities you'll hear never hear a woman use when she's talking about some guy she's flippin' crazy about, but qualities she'll appreciate, usually half-heartedly, from a guy she knows is in love with her. You usually hear "He's a selfish bastard" followed by some form of "And I love him to pieces and I'll likely die a horrible death without him" when she's in love.

 

Romantically, most women don't dig a guy who is willing to ruin himself over her. They don't want it or need it to be fulfilled. They pretty much require a guy that they'd want to ruin themselves over, and that usually involves someone who is not only willing to walk away when he's been treated bad, but will actually push her away when she's been a naughty girl.

 

Don't be overly sympathetic of her craziness. That's what her friends and family are for. You're wanting to be her lover. It's just different. I can guarantee that the whole "I will wait forever for you" schtick will be an epic fail. It goes against your instincts, but "Well, I may not have you, but at least I get to screw other hot chicks now" line would actually go 10x as far. It's crass, juvenille, sophomoric, uncaring, and none of that matters. Afterall, look who she's with right now?

 

It's not about purposely being a jerk. It's about standing up for yourself and not tolerating anything less then you deserve from someone.

[Nearwater]

So, with 3239 posts under your belt, I am being a dumb *ss and living in total denial?

 

I am guilty of missing her, knowing she's a hurting pup, condemning her choices and being a romantic fool.

[jettison]

So, with 3239 posts under your belt, I am being a dumb *ss and living in total denial?

 

I am guilty of missing her, knowing she's a hurting pup, condemning her choices and being a romantic fool.

 

It's not "wrong". There's no such thing. Your love is real and "pure" and all that business. But if your goal is to get her back then refrain from employing the word "win". You don't win someone. She is just a woman - puts her pants on one leg at a time, just like you do. She's made it explicit that she no longer cherishes that you cherish her. So, you can keep up with the same tactics, or change.

 

Will you end up with her in the end? Doubtful. Most don't. You may though. If you do it will be because you start getting very, very honest, but without a level of vindictiveness or malice. Part of that scenario involves giving her mental space and not just physical space.

 

No more "I love you", no more "I'll wait", no more "thinking about you all the time". None of that. No more anything except being polite when she contacts you and living your life. You may even be surprised by the outcome. Not only will she start treating you in a more positive manner, but you may end up feeling more respectful of yourself, and in turn, attracting someone new that you didn't even know you were looking for.

 

Are you living in denial? No. You're just living. This is a stage. There will be more.

[Nearwater]

Did I say win? didn't mean to.

 

I have NO plans to contact her in any way shape or form.

 

Thank-you kindly for your posts. Please come back and post anything that comes to mind.

 

Later.

[jettison]

Did I say win? didn't mean to.

 

I have NO plans to contact her in any way shape or form.

 

Thank-you kindly for your posts. Please come back and post anything that comes to mind.

 

Later.

 

I get this a lot. "I didn't say that", or "Did I mention that word?" It's my fault. When I start writing something it's just stream of consciousness. It's not like I'm trying to publish something. I don't even check for spelling errors, let alone reread my posts. Never said you said "win". I just write whatever comes to mind when I think of the dynamic at play.

 

In your case, I see someone who is trying to do the right thing to get his lady back, be that NC, LC, or constant contact. No matter what, your actions have a purpose, to "get" her back, eventually. You can say that's "win", or you can call it anything else. But as long as she is your focus then there is a motive in place. And if she weren't your focus then you wouldn't write about her. No problem there. If the mental diagnosis mentioned fits and serves you well then that's fine too. It's certainly a lot more apt then the people who throw around "narcissist" like a cheap suit.

 

Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I was scrambling to find articles on ROCD to simply understand how someone can go from, "I've waited me whole life to find you" to "goodbye" in the span of three weeks.

[itsallgrand]

Symptoms of BPD and PTSD are very similar because most of them are responses to abuse or neglect and trauma. A true BPD, however, is very hard to treat and if you've ever seen one, you would know it. They can be very volatile and their moods can go from loving to hateful very quickly. There are a number of great books on the subject. One of them is written by a woman with BPD and it is extremely insightful.

 

It is called "Get me Out of Here: My Recovery from BPD" by Rachel Reiland

 

Right on, lady!!

 

I myself went into treatment for PTSD and was diagnosed as having "BPD traits".

 

"Traits" is different than having Borderline Disorder as your DOMINANT disorder. It is simply a way of classifying certain coping and behavior patterns.

 

Be real careful trying to diagnose anyone - it's not easy even for a qualified psychiatrist!!! It was over a month of testing before my diagnosis was even complete!!

 

And beyond all that - this is for her to deal with. Her and only her. There is simply no other way.

 

The book that ycmanvs recommended illustrates this point well: Rachel had the most loving, supportive husband you can imagine, and that didn't stop her from spiralling, nor was THAT the thing that led her to pursue treatment with the dedication needed.

 

It's enough to know that your ex was not able at the time to have a healthy relationship. No matter what you had done, said, or been - it was not possible.

 

I think there is some solace to take in that . You loved the best to your ability, you just didn't know at the time it was an uphill battle with no possibility for you to make the changes necessary to make HER capable of a healthy relationship.

 

stay well.

[GoldenHillGuy]

It's enough to know that your ex was not able at the time to have a healthy relationship. No matter what you had done, said, or been - it was not possible.

 

I think there is some solace to take in that . You loved the best to your ability, you just didn't know at the time it was an uphill battle with no possibility for you to make the changes necessary to make HER capable of a healthy relationship.

 

stay well.

 

Well, I'll chime in here. I am convinced my ex has a personality disorder. Do I miss her? YES. Do I want her back? YES. But I can understand where the OP is coming from. What itsallgrand wrote above makes it valuable for healing to do a bit of research on the issues. Sure, I screwed up. But I've come to the conclusion, there is just nothing I could've done to keep her happy. And that in itself has helped me a great deal. So agree with 'diagnosing' your ex or not. Fact is, some exes are REALLY crazy. Just my opinion of course.

[AmbivalentOne]

[SIZE="2"]

***To answer your question---

Question- Can people exhibit varying degrees of BPD? Some of the listed traits describe her exactly and others have no bearing at all.*****

 

Yes. Every person can emit different levels of severity regarding the traits of BPD. There are low-functioning Borderlines and high-functioning Borderlines.

 

--- A low-functioning Borderline cannot function in typical everyday life. They often are in and out of hospitals and/or jail, are unable to work and collect disability, are unable to maintain any grasp of reality or hold any sort of healthy relationship with friends or family. A low-functioning Borderline normally has suffered from extreme cases of physical, emotional, and/or sexual abuse and/or other types of emotionally disturbing traumatic experiences as a child.

 

--- A high-functioning Borderline CAN function in typical everyday life. I happen to know because I am a high-functioning Borderline. People with this type of BPD are able to coast through each day, unnoticed while they are struggling with the turmoil on the inside. The peers of this type of Borderline often say that they never would have guessed that anything was wrong with the borderline or sometimes state that at times something just didn't seem right but they couldn't pin point it. High-functioning Borderlines often drink a lot to self-medicate, as well as suffer from eating disorders and/or use self-injury to cope with the internal chaos they experience. This sort of Borderline is a chameleon that can blend into any sort of environment and can even be the life of the party and liked by many people. This is what makes sudden suicides so hard to understand.

 

Regardless of what phase of BPD a person may suffer from, it is a very serious medical condition. Most people with this disorder often do not believe that anything is wrong with them and think that everyone else is the one with the problem. Trust me, I lived most of my life thinking that the rest of the world was crazy and that it was me against the world. The empty feeling and constant search for excitement/happiness/etc ruled my life esp from my late teens til my early 20s. It wasn't until I hit rock bottom several times and watched my life crash and burn incessantly that I realized that it was me, not everyone else. That is why its so important not to let it go if you suspect that someone you are close to may have BPD. That person may not be receptive to your concern or wish to help them but it will be worth it in the long run. I had to figure out that I had a disorder on my own because my family didn't want to accept the fact that I could possibly be plagued with such a thing. They thought if they ignored it that it would go away. Do not do this to your loved one. If left unaddressed, BPD can and eventually will produce a horrific outcome.

 

 

 

 

[/size]

[/b]

[ycmanvs]

AmbivalentOne is correct. I have known a few people with BPD and was treated for it myself, even though I was never "officially" diagnosed with it.

[Nearwater]

Interesting response about high-functioning but with the bpd traits.

 

Do you think just the mild traits brought on by the same thing that gives some people the low-functioning or more sever syndrome is enough to wreck intimate relationships?

[The_411]

Nearwater,

 

I was deeply involved with a BPD/NPD/HPD woman. I loved and still love her, but she tore up my heart.

 

Personality Disorder are not as simple as I have BPD or NPD or HPD. Almost always there is what is called co-morbidity. Co-morbidity is basically a mix of a lot of different criteria from other personality disorders.

 

That's why BPD is difficult to diagnose because person may exhibit symptoms like alcoholism or eating disorders which mask the personality disorder.

[ycmanvs]

It is all about coping mechanisms and ability to function. As with any illness, some people recover better than others. There is no magic formula when it comes to BPD. Anyone involved with a BPD person will feel pain at some point or another. The high functioning individuals understand that they have a peoblem. The low functioning ones usually insist that they do not have a problem and that everyone else is at fault. It takes many years to learn how to relate to other people without seeing everything in black and white and letting emotions take control.

DBT and cognitive therapies are the most successful ways to treat this type of illness, but the patient has to be very involved in the treatment and stick with the "homework", etc. You can't make a borderline seek treatment. They have to do it on their own and work really hard at changing. Also, they need complete trust in their therapist.