Drugs Are Bad Yes?

[melrich]

Here's what I would say about drugs (and I include alcohol and cigarettes when I say "drugs").

 

To teenagers and 20 somethings they are attractive and fun. At that age you have the body and constitution to bounce back and no harm done (i'm talking about limited use).

 

BUT....and I know this of myself and the people around me, you will pay for it. In aggregation you will carry the impacts into teh rest of your life. You will start to pay from about the time you hit your late 30s early 40s and it is irreversible.

 

I think complete abstinence is not reality for most people in their 20s but I think it is always good to remind yourself that hopefully you have another 50 or 60 years to live.

[agent1607307371]

It makes a big difference to me that alcohol is legal and drugs are not. Also makes a big difference that alcohol in moderation is proven to be physiologically beneficial.

 

 

But alcohol kills hundreds and hundred of people a year! Here in the UK we're currently having a massive campaign about the dangers of it and the fact that peope just cannot be trusted to drink within the safe limits.

 

You can't compare drug addicts to moderate alcohol users. You can only compare moderate or hard users of each, not mix and match.

[sophie274]

Cannabis is physiologically beneficial to those with AIDS or appetite issues or anxiety issues.

MDMA is psychologically beneficial to those who have been raped or have severe anxiety.

 

 

And I would fully support their medical use for people with those conditions.

 

Alcohol has been proven to be beneficial to anyone in very moderate quantities.

 

In my opinion, taking drugs does affect people other than the user. You are paying a drug dealer, who is dealing drugs to others, possibly children. Don't personally feel right about sustaining someone with those kinds of values.

 

As for the effects of ecstasy, I still disagree just as I would disapprove of someone ingesting alcohol so it could make him a more fun person. There are other ways of unlocking that type of thinking - and I would rather mine be organic (as in from myself) rather than from an illegal stimulant, whose effects you absolutely do not control. (Just like Joe Smith doesn't control the effects of his flu vaccine or his blood pressure medication.)

 

What about my other questions?

[sophie274]

B

You can't compare drug addicts to moderate alcohol users. You can only compare moderate or hard users of each, not mix and match.

 

I'm not. I think moderate use of alcohol is fine, and moderate use of drugs is not. I think abuse of both is terrible, and I would not abuse either.

[pryda]

What about my other questions?

What other questions?

 

I don't have children. As for associating with dealers, that's something I feel bad about, yes - but in an ideal world, I wouldn't have to do that because drugs would be legal. I feel that if I'm helping to sustain a dealer's business, then that is the law's fault for being unjust and not mine.

 

MDMA acts in a way that nothing else can. It's hard to explain the point I'm trying to make about unlocking feelings and mindsets, but I just don't think consciousness can be altered naturally in the same way. Maybe it can, and if I found a way of doing so which meant I wouldn't have to use dealers or risk neurological toxicity then I would do it. But at the moment, I don't believe it is possible.

[sophie274]

BUT....and I know this of myself and the people around me, you will pay for it. In aggregation you will carry the impacts into teh rest of your life. You will start to pay from about the time you hit your late 30s early 40s and it is irreversible.

 

 

Are you saying that you can see a difference between the people your age who used to smoke/drink/do drugs vs. those who didn't? (If so, how?) Or that as you get older it has more of an effect on you?

[JadedStar]

Stranded I'm with you. I have no qualms saying I look down on drugs. I have never known them to do a darn good thing for ANYBODY, not even recreationally. Stick to your guns on how you feel about it.

[pryda]

BUT....and I know this of myself and the people around me, you will pay for it. In aggregation you will carry the impacts into teh rest of your life. You will start to pay from about the time you hit your late 30s early 40s and it is irreversible.

Even from my current use at the age of 21, I'll regret it later?

 

I plan to stop taking drugs in a couple of years and I believe I have the head to go through with that (I use them incredibly infrequently as it is). Why? Because I recognise that it could interfere with my future career, any family I plan to have, and I also recognise that my body will be less able to handle it (particularly the cardiovascular system). But at the moment I'm feeling positively influenced, in good physical shape, I am excelling in education and enjoying my life.

[melrich]

Are you saying that you can see a difference between the people your age who used to smoke/drink/do drugs vs. those who didn't? (If so, how?) Or that as you get older it has more of an effect on you?

 

I don't know anyone that has completely abstained. But certainly you can see the difference between people who were regular drug users to those who weren't.

 

As you get older, brain cells die, metabolism slows, skin loses elasticity. The less reserves your body has, the less you are able to compensate for it. Everything you do to your body from ages 1 to 25 (sun, bad eating, drugs, no exercise) magnifies 100 times when you hit "the other side".

[Lionel Hutz]

Stranded I'm with you. I have no qualms saying I look down on drugs. I have never known them to do a darn good thing for ANYBODY, not even recreationally. Stick to your guns on how you feel about it.

 

Ever seen a painting by Van Gogh?

 

Ever hear music from The Doors, The Beetles, Hendrix, Jefferson Airplane?

 

Ever Listen to jazz?

 

Ever wonder where tie dyed t shirts came from?

 

Ever wonder how a sunflower began to represent peace?

 

Ever wonder what it would be like to accept things you dont know about?

 

The reason I ask is that many who choose to look at drug use take the worst case scenario, Thus creating a terribley cynical argument. Crime persist through greed not drug use. So many cases go unheard, why? Not everyone gets caught using, and not everyone resorts to crime to use drugs.

 

People who are completely sober sell lots of drugs as well. The profit margin is through the roof. Drug test your whole police department (for who ever asked if I care about the law)

I do care about the law,until it infringes on what I feel is a natural right to injest anything I want. Being that its not going to kill me or harm anyone else. Regulation will limit the criminal element. How many people get busted in California for trafficking Marijuana? Not nearly as many before Prop 215. Why? Regulation. Trafficking is unnecessary.

 

No one who uses drugs will say abuse is good. Those who abuse have a problem. Judging them will not help. Bashing people who decide to do drugs is not right. I hate motorist and smog, and in my state alone 24,000 people died from smog related complications, can I generalize and hate motorists? NO. I can easily take the worst examples and compare them to create a strawman argument, copy and paste random stats from sources unknown, and say this is proof.Hell, most of the studies are done on rats or have inaccurate slanted statistics. The U.S. government has hardly anything good to say about drug policy in except; put offenders in jail,sieze the cash, and use the drugs in another bust. That in itself is influencing crime.

 

I think if Stranded does not want to try drugs that is okay. We will not be as the sober community and look down on her decision. She should not judge her friend or anyone else who does drugs for that matter. Unless they harm her well being.

[Mythical_Suicide]

 

Drugs aren't just illegal because they're bad for you - if that was the case alcohol and tobacco would be banned.

 

No, Tobacco is just as bad for you as smoking pot or doing a line of cocaine. There are many more reasons that drugs are illegal than because they are "bad" for you. To be honest, lets compare alcohol with cocaine if you can get pure cocaine and control your intake it is just as "safe" as alcohol. The problem lies with getting stuff that is laced or not even cocaine at all.

[JadedStar]

Lionel, I do believe that talented creative people can still be that way without doing drugs.

 

I could do without a Van Gogh type painting if to have gotten it means the person has to stay stoned.

 

Where did i bash anyone? If someone is offending by my saying i look down on drugs that is their problem. I didn't say i looked down on users of it i said i look down on DRUGS and that is my honest opinion. I have as much right to say i hate them as much as you do to say you like them and think they should be legal.

 

I think stranded is pretty darn mature to be concerned that her friend is viewing doing a line of coke or some E as a pretty risque thing. Apparently you have not seen many addicts in your life? Well i have and they all started the same way. Smart people who thought they could do an occasional line. Cocaine is a lie. It makes you feel ways that aren't real and you want to keep going back to it. I have talked to former users who said they regret EVER doing that first line or hit of meth because the feelings made them think they were on top of the world and thus made them keep going back dabbling in it and before they knew they were habitual users having a tough time stopping.

[Mythical_Suicide]

Just because someone occasionally does drugs does not make them an abuser nor does it mean they're an addict. When I was doing ecstasy I only did it at raves which I attended maybe once or twice a month. I didnt HAVE to have the drug but I did enjoy doing it.

 

Same with cocaine, I didn't have to have that line of coke to feel good however the feeling while on it was the best thing ever. Yes, it can be an extremely addicted drug and I have found myself craving it many times but do have enough control over myself to avoid it even with other people doing it around me.

[JadedStar]

No, Tobacco is just as bad for you as smoking pot or doing a line of cocaine. There are many more reasons that drugs are illegal than because they are "bad" for you. To be honest, lets compare alcohol with cocaine if you can get pure cocaine and control your intake it is just as "safe" as alcohol. The problem lies with getting stuff that is laced or not even cocaine at all.

 

 

Healthwise, maybe. But if a person habitually uses cocaine they look like H E double hockey sticks by the time they are 35. Teeth usually got rotten they are withdrawn, skinny, pale.

 

A person who smokes regularly and who does coke regularly the same amount of years can stand side by side and the coke user is going to look far more run down. I wont say smoking doesn't age you either but habitual cocaine use will make you look like an old man at 35.

 

Sure smoking isn't healthy but i can't believe people compare smoking to habitual use of cocaine. Healthwise they are both bad but smoking does not significantly alter the mind.

[Mythical_Suicide]

My mother died as a result of problems brought on by smoking, as did my grandfather. The point is, none of it is good nor healthy for you but if you really look at it just because alcohol and tobacco are legal doesn't make it any better. That's all i'm trying to say. Drugs are bad, yes I agree but so is alcohol and tobacco and unfortunately many peoples' lives are screwed up everyday because of all the things listed above

[pryda]

Just because someone occasionally does drugs does not make them an abuser nor does it mean they're an addict. When I was doing ecstasy I only did it at raves which I attended maybe once or twice a month. I didnt HAVE to have the drug but I did enjoy doing it.

 

Same with cocaine, I didn't have to have that line of coke to feel good however the feeling while on it was the best thing ever. Yes, it can be an extremely addicted drug and I have found myself craving it many times but do have enough control over myself to avoid it even with other people doing it around me.

Same here (on the E, I don't do coke).

 

I think the bottom line regarding the argument that drugs are a 'downward spiral' is that some people have the head for drugs, some don't. The susceptibility to addiction varies from person to person - and you can normally tell who is going to be susceptible and who isn't by their personality, even before they try a drug.

 

But as far as I'm concerned, that only adds to the argument AGAINST drug prohibition. I mean, people vary in their mentality when it comes to driving as well; some people are more likely to get into accidents because they have poorer co-ordination or poorer concentration - should we ban driving because of these people? Of course not, that would be ludicrous.

[stranded247]

Why exactly are you so against recreational drugs? Do you feel knowledgable enough in the subject to actually argue that drugs are bad, full stop?

 

You are entitled to your views, as is anyone. I always respect people's values, but I find it easiest to respect values which are not simply based on ignorance. If you feel drug users are bad people, because your mum told you that or because the government told you that or because you learnt it in school, then that is a value which I cannot respect.

 

I do feel knowledgable to say that drugs are bad full stop. My dad took LSD and used to smoke pot at home when I was younger. My mum made him stop. But I'm adament that drugs like pot are made out to be a lot less dangerous than they are. My friends dad smokes pot and it really fks with people's temprement-pot smokers become passive or either really aggressive and violent, and I'm not just speaking from watching one person but I've seen this in many pot users. I've always been told drugs are bad just like any other kid but I've seen what it does to people, I was once at a party and this girl fell on the floor and started writhing and having some sort of drug induced fit-they had to call an ambulance.

And I refuse to think the government is lying. Yeah I dont like the government but its true. I think to be honest that people who argue what you have just said are generally deeply in denial and try to find the means to justify their drug abuse to feel better about it. I think drugs should be legalized so that it can take away power from criminal organizations and drug dealers etc but that doesn't change the fact that drugs ARE BAD FOR YOU.

Drugs are the cause of so many problems in society and I guess they always will be but I think if we legalized them maybe it would reduce the problems to some extent.

[JadedStar]

I think the bottom line regarding the argument that drugs are a 'downward spiral' is that some people have the head for drugs, some don't.

 

Wish i had a nickel for everytime a person who has a problem with drugs said this.

 

We have a teenager here (the OP) talking with way more maturity about drug use than a lot of the adults. No offense to our users here, but serioiusly.

[JadedStar]

I think to be honest that people who argue what you have just said are generally deeply in denial and try to find the means to justify their drug abuse to feel better about it]

 

B-B-B-BIIIINGO!

[pryda]

No, people who argue in this way just show they aren't so ignorant to just believe what they are told without questioning it.

 

You "refuse" to think the government is lying - does that count for everything, or just drugs?

Are you not interested in the scientific evidence which suggests there are in fact no holes in the brain after ecstasy consumption?

Are you not interested in the anecdotal evidence which suggests that this drug has a lower casualty rate than many everyday activities?

 

Again, I can use the driving analogy - I've seen road accidents happen, one even happened to my dad, should I conclude from that that driving is bad and should be banned? Ludicrous. Road accidents are not the fault of the car or the practise of driving, they are the fault of the PEOPLE INVOLVED.

 

For all you know, the girl who was "writhing on the floor" could have been in that "drug-induced fit" not from the drug itself but from conducting herself wrongly whilst on the drug (i.e. taking too much of it, taking it despite having a pre-existing condition, not looking after her temperature/hydration levels). That's not the fault of the substance, it's the fault of the user and of the government for not educating her against the risks of the substance.

 

And as for talking with more maturity? What do you consider "maturity" then, just blindly accepting what we are are told? I've actually heavily researched the substances that I use and have used in the past and come to my OWN decision about them. In my view, that is far more mature than ignorance.

[JadedStar]

And as for talking with more maturity? What do you consider "maturity" then, just blindly accepting what we are are told?

 

If i did that i'd buy your push for drugs hook, line and sinker. ;-)

 

Don't assume that those who are not pro drugs do not do their own research.

 

We can agree to disagree, i just find the types of excuses you give to put drug usage in a better light are tired, overused, and weak.

[agent1607307371]

And I refuse to think the government is lying.

 

Here in the UK the government have just put the cannibis classification back up to B despite the Scientists they basically paid to put out a report backing up the move, actually saying that the dangers of cannabis weren't bad enough to warrant moving out of the C class. The government responded by saying that they were re-classifying to "send a message". Which is, of course, that as long as they have an agenda, all the proof in the world won't make them do something that is logical but not what they want.

 

Also, everything you have said in the above post can also apply to alcohol. In fact workin in a hospital we used to cring about fridays because the A&E would be strained to its very last resource trying to deal with all the people coming in from alcohol od's and injuries (some self-inflicted some not).

 

Drugs affect people. Not all the drugs that are illegal affect people in ways that are that bad, the drugs that are legal aren't free of horrific side effects.

 

Drugs are bad? Ok, but only as long as you include all drugs in that statement, not just the illegal ones.

[pryda]

If i did that i'd buy your push for drugs hook, line and sinker. ;-)

 

Don't assume that those who are not pro drugs do not do their own research.

 

We can agree to disagree, i just find the types of excuses you give to put drug usage in a better light are tired, overused, and weak.

How is extensive scientific evidence and statistics tired and weak?!?!?!

You don't seem to have any argument against drugs, other than that you know someone who took them and they ended up in a bad way! Speak for yourself!!

[pryda]

Here in the UK the government have just put the cannibis classification back up to B despite the Scientists they basically paid to put out a report backing up the move, actually saying that the dangers of cannabis weren't bad enough to warrant moving out of the C class. The government responded by saying that they were re-classifying to "send a message". Which is, of course, that as long as they have an agenda, all the proof in the world won't make them do something that is logical but not what they want.

Yeah - did you know that since the reclassification to Class B in 2003, cannabis use in young people dropped from 25% to 21%? Absolutely bizarre that they've reversed the decision after this kind of success. It's not going to deter people from using it, all it will do is raise the price and put more money into the dealer's pocket! Well played, Mr Brown...

[JadedStar]

How is extensive scientific evidence and statistics tired and weak?!?!?!

You don't seem to have any argument against drugs, other than that you know someone who took them and they ended up in a bad way! Speak for yourself!!

 

ONE person? Umm, look around you and open your eyes. And i know more than ONE person. I dont need to cite the cons of drugs here on this thread as hopefully any reasonable person already knwos them.

 

You sound like a user in denial. Sorry, but you do.