Mediation

[just M.E.]

Here's a little input on mediation. I just had my Preliminary Status Conference yesterday. There is so little yet to resolve but we cannot get any information from my ex what his objections are, only that he won't agree to anything at this point.

 

There will now be court ordered mediation. In my case this is very expensive because it entails my lawyer, me, his lawyer, him and a mediator. Here, the mediator is more expensive than one of the lawyers and I am told mediation normally runs minimum of two hours but with my ex's history we should look at 4 hours. Mediation is not binding so we could come out of this with still needing the judge to make the final decisions.

 

All the major items have been settled and agreed upon, what is left is a old vehicle, a horse trailer, some tools, and of course, he wants my tax refunds for the Married Filing Separately returns. But even all of that is minimal and in Sept of 07 I would have given him more than twice the value of what this stuff is worth just to settle this agreeably.

 

But settling removes A. drama B. control C. can't be the victim when it is all done

 

By the way, he is the one who left and had an affair, among other things in including emotional abuse and rages and rants. He is an alcoholic who doesn't believe he has a problem.

 

The good news is that this will be done soon, the mediation is to happen before the Pernanent Orders Hearing which is to be be very early May. As there are no children, there will be no need for any further involvement.\\

[lostandhurt]

M.E.

At least there is a little good news for you to think about. I'm sure you will be relieved when it's finally over and you can survey the wreckage. It must be hard to try and start a new with the old still hanging around not wanting to go away. From start to close to finish how long have you been at this? As you know mine is just starting and I was hoping it goes smoothly as possible. We have been told by everyone the more civil we are to each other the easier it will be on our son so there is a very good reason for us to treat each other with respect. I hope your mediation goes smoothly and you can look forward to a stress free summer.

 

lostandhurt

[just M.E.]

lostandhurt -

He and I separated in May of '06, I filed for legal separation at that time, due to the drinking. I couldn't live with the roller coaster, rages, anger, destructive behavior, it was over the top to say the least. In June '06 we reconciled, he went to an out patient alcohol treatment program, quit drinking maybe 3-5 months, I don't know because I found out later all he had told me was a lie.

 

He left May 31, '07 and we tried to reach an agreement on settlement for divorce since August. I have no hard core proof but he most likely had an affair, I never tried to prove it, I saw no gain in knowing the details. He moved in with her not long after he left. I don't know if they are still together.

 

He won't say what he wants, only "No" to every suggestion. Impossible to make a reasonable offer to someone like that. He has gotten out of control at every meeting so far, we'll see what happens.

 

The mediation will be expensive and I hope it will be successful. I am not resistant to anything except I will not go back into previous years and amend the tax returns to a joint return. He and his accountant have done some real bizarre numbers when reviewing my financial data. I am afraid to join my tax return with his as I am afraid of future repercussions. Interestingly I have given him all my financial data, he has not given his, again he is not complying but we are just moving forward to try complete. At this point I don't care about what is right, what is fair or what is immoral on his part. If anything even remotely reasonable was presented, I would agree.

 

His last comment is a meeting in Nov was that I had promised to buy him a house (? I have no idea where this came from other than a discussion months before about my will, that there was a life insurance policy that would enable him to buy a house or a sizable down payment?) Maybe in his alcoholic mind, I should die so he can have a house? He was very angry that I was leaving my house to my daughter in my will although if he passed away I was to receive nothing and what little he owned went to his mother.

 

I'm just tired of remembering how awful he was, the level of emotional abuse was unbelievable. We had one employee quit over one of his rages and I look back and I lived with those daily. I went back because he asked for help, he made attempts for a couple of months. I hurt myself more in that process, but my conscience is clear, I know I did more than most would have and I also know there was no more I could have done.

[lostandhurt]

What a long ordeal to put up with. Both my parents were alcoholics so I know how they can get when things don't go their way. My mother was the most bitter spiteful person you would never want to meet. My mother left when I was 13 and never filed. She just kept picking at the scab that was once their marriage. My father finally died from trying to dry out one more time and she won and got the house after 14 yrs separation. A short time later the house was sold by her family to pay for her Alziemers care at a facility and she died some years later. You are to be commended for trying to help him recover, but you know you can't help them if they don't want to help themselves. It is such a terrible disease. It can ruin so many lives around it. I'm sure it will be like a huge weight is off of you when it is finally over. I might need advice on mine and you sound like you know the ropes pretty well by now. If you don't mind.

lost

[scornandtorn]

M.E.

 

Good luck on this part of the finality. I am rooting for you and I hope things turn out favorably for you. The best part is you will know where you stand and he will no longer have any control over your future. It is somewhat of a relief when it is all said and done.

 

I wish I would have had a chance at mediation but she was to far gone. Price of attorney nine thousand dollars, not having to negotiate personally with a disfunctional ex, PRICELESS!

 

Scorn

[just M.E.]

They have scheduled this for 4/28. I don't think he understood the cost of this process and he and I have to pay the mediator before hand. I've been robbing from Peter to pay Paul for so long, it's just one more time ;-).

 

I think this will be win-win. I have listed out the items that I know have not been resolved. I want two items but I am willing to pay for them, they are not anything he needs or will use. If he is unreasonable, it will make him look bad it this has to go beyond mediation. As I am not set in stone on anything, I can be easily be reasonable.

[benga]

Hey there ME - I am happy that the ordeal will be over soon for you and you can move ahead with life....

 

I have been following your divorce since you got on to ENA and you have been through a lot. I am sure you cant wait to put this behind you. Sure, there would be scars... But eventually they heal. Things will never be the same or just how you wanted them to be, but life has a strange way of making everything alright....

 

I am still in limbo land

 

The ex switches off each time we speak of a divorce and get lawyer appointments scheduled. She is a good practitioner of NC with me once I re-raise the divorce issue.. But hey, I am in no hurry either. Its not that I am in any serious urge to get re-married or something..

 

Take good care ME. You are a star!!!

[Mek]

Wow M.E.,

 

Your divorce in some ways sounds like mine... in that we both had angry abusive spouses. Mine was not an alcoholic however. I also am heading for my first Settlement meeting in May. I had a problem with the attorney I had, and she reneged on her contract with me. My attorney's history was another problem, as she was disbarred for embezzlement, I later found out. So to make a long story short, I am seriously considering going into the settlement Conference without having an attorney. I figure that I have already filed all the necessary papers with the court, and it is just a meeting to negotiate, so what harm could it do, I am thinking.

 

Does anyone think I might do myself or my case harm by doing this?

 

Any advise on this?

 

Thanks all,

 

-Mek

[just M.E.]

I want to thank everyone for the notes of support, it really means a lot coming from you guys. I think the stress level is coming up now that the time frame is shortening. It will be interesting to see if the ex can hold it together, I am betting on one big rant during the mediation.

 

We were supposed to have a phone conference with accountants and lawyers yesterday. This was demanded by the ex's accountant, what I cal, yet another mystery meeting, no explanation, just had to have it. We all get on the phone and when we call her office to complete the conference call, her receptionist tells us she is in a meeting and not available, we are put on hold about 10 min then her office hangs up. When we call back the call goes directly to voice mail. Remember, this is the phone conference she demanded, chose the time, etc. The rest of us were reluctant participants. So 2 lawyers and 1 accountants time was wasted. I could buy a couple season passes for skiing with that billing.

 

Ahhh, the melodrama continues .... it is getting so ridiculous, I find myself chuckling more than any other response. "If I wasn't crazy, I might go insane" Waylon Jennings (I think, my apologies if I am wrong)

 

Mek - the downfall I can see, is that you will not know all the details of the law and might get bullied into something you do not have to do. To get an attorney just for the settlement conference, would that be horribly expensive? My expensives have been all the futile communications so far.

[Mek]

Thanks ME,

 

At least you were able to send me your thoughts. With all the "experts" here on divorce, you were the only one to suggest having a attorney at least just for the first settlement conference. Ok I guess I will have to hire another "train wreck" chasing attorney... just for one meeting... oh boy.

 

-Mek

[just M.E.]

Ten days to Mediation - 4/28 - no matter what happens there, we can ask for permanent orders and that court date after mediation. I will agree to almost anything on the remaining personal property items, not much left anyway ... I won't give it all away but I will be EXTREMELY reasonable, if he stomps out, then the judge can decide for us. Either way, it will be over soon.

 

(She skips around the house, does the chicken dance, overall just making an absolute fool out of herself)

[confusedmama]

Good Luck! Keep Dancin'

[coco3]

Ten days to Mediation - 4/28 - no matter what happens there, we can ask for permanent orders and that court date after mediation. I will agree to almost anything on the remaining personal property items, not much left anyway ... I won't give it all away but I will be EXTREMELY reasonable, if he stomps out, then the judge can decide for us. Either way, it will be over soon.

 

(She skips around the house, does the chicken dance, overall just making an absolute fool out of herself)

 

\\ luck!! I'm so looking forward to being where you are right now!!!!

[just M.E.]

I does feel like forever, I admit.

[Mek]

Hi M.E.

 

My first mediated conference date is May 6th... seems we are both on similar tracks... with the exception that we ahve nothing agreed upon... so I would like to ask for prayer (if you are religious) or just a wish for good luck (if you are not). I am very tired of the thoughts of going through this. BUt my only problem is how do I have enough energy to deal with someone who is so full of anger and a vengeful personallity...? Any recommendations?

 

Lastly, I had picked out a replacement attorney... but I haven't gone and hired him yet. He doesn't even call me back at the moment, so I could also assume that he is not interested in taking my case. So I am seriously thinking of going into the mediation conference as Pro Per... any one have an suggestions on how I should do this... wisely?

 

-Mek

[just M.E.]

Mek -

 

I'll get through mine in some time before you, but I imagine each situation will be different.

 

I had a initial meeting with the ex on 9/7/07 and I had the knots in my stomach then. I was glad to have my lawyer with me to tell me to not respond when they were trying to bait me. At some point I ended up getting real calm and just searched for reasonable solutions, alternatives that might be acceptable. His lawyer thought I had some good ideas, but the ex just simply kept saying "No" to everything that was suggested.

 

Do you know how a 2 year becomes enamored with the word "No"? It is a very powerful word, and that meeting had that feeling. I am worried this mediation might go that way, but I have to remember that I can't force him to be a reasonable person.

 

I would prepare yourself with as much information as possible in case you need to present documentation. I am to get a list of the items he feels he should have by late today, but I worry he won't submit that and we will walk into the mediation blind. The purpose of the list is to prepare both parties so no one is surprised and time is not wasted during the mediation.

 

Only real piece of advice I can offer so far is STAY CALM. No matter what is said by the other side, don't let yourself be baited into reacting badly. The more you hold the high ground the worse her angry behavior will appear.

 

My ex is very vindictive and he is the "leaver" ... I simply want this behind me so I don't have to feel that the rug could be pulled out from under me.

 

It was nice having my lawyer next to me at that first meeting, we wrote quick notes of explanation and encouragement, I wouldn't want to do it alone. I am a bit of a wimp when it comes to my ex and I am real tough in every other part of life. Even a strong person can finally be worn down.

[lostandhurt]

M.E.

My stbx wants a divorce but she keeps putting off the first meeting with our mediator. First we weren't ready and it would be a waste of money now she needs to talk to someone and wants to put it off 3 or 4 weeks. I don't get it. I thought she wanted to get moving on this and now she is dragging her feet. She could have gotten the keys to her rental on the 1st but now it will be the 15th and who knows if that will happen. I know reality is sinking in on her but she made her choice and now nothing. How can I nudge her towards getting this thing moving?

ME, sorry for highjacking your post I hope you don't mind.

lost

[just M.E.]

No problem lost ...

 

Do you have a lawyer? If not you can appeal to the mediator to schedule this and push her, otherwise you may need to get a lawyer and have him/her put the pressure on. I agree that having things move along is the best for all parties, I think my ex delays because he needs to be in control.

 

Is she still living with you? I worked daily with my ex for one month in our business after he left, then he kicked me out. I would have stayed longer to make sure the business made a full transition, I was a full 50% shareholder and working partner. That one month was very hard on me, I can understand how rough it may be for you.

 

I had said I expected to be blindsided in this Mediation process, something would come up that no on could have anticipated. It did.

 

He just fired his lawyer.

[lostandhurt]

Yeah she is still in the house for now. I hope she can move out soon after the 15th of May but I have a sinking feeling that won't happen for some reason. I really want to start moving on with my life and the first step seems to be delayed for whatever reason. We are on decent terms right now and I think when she finally moves out I will be able to deal with her better. I'm afraid it will be the opposite for her. Sorry to hear your stbx pulled the ole fire the lawyer trick.

[just M.E.]

and the drama continues (Cheees, I hate this stuff)

 

Turns out his attorney "fired" him. I heard that he did one of his tirades and they (legal firm) decided it was best to part ways. He can be EXTREMELY abusive verbally, this has happened to him before with other people, his doctor, many customers, employees, etc.

 

I guess it will only make me appear more rational, in comparison I am Mother Teresa.

 

The attorney withdrawal is already filed with the court (the magic of the internet) and the mediation remains scheduled for Monday.

 

This will be "intresting".

[Mek]

Hi M.E.,

 

Thanks for your advice... and I hope all your future mediation attempts go better than the last.

 

So, is there anything you can tell me as to how anything that is agreed upon gets settled during mediation?

 

Any advice you can give me so I am better prepared mentally and physically would help tremendously.

 

I hope your STBX see's the light that all the energy he wastes is time from which he and you can move on to make a better life from...

 

-Mek

[just M.E.]

Mek -

 

The only advice I can give you is what I learned with my lawyers.

 

Make up a list of everything that could be determined to be "marital" property.

 

Get realistic values for this items and/or appraisals if necessary

 

Start 2 columns in this list, put what you know you want and what you know she wants in these columns, assign values to each item. Add in the unknowns as best as possible but keep them designated.

 

Add both columns up, the difference between the columns is what one or the other will need to give the other.

 

Remember the cost of a lawyer for me was $360/hr, no need for me to argue about something worth $100. I also am not giving away everything though. No requirement for me to be a doormat since he is greedy. In my case, he would never state what he wanted, he wouldn't even hint at it.

 

That is what we did as a starting point, ask your ex to do the same also, that way when you go into mediation you each have each others information ahead of time and can be prepared. The goal is to find and agreement, not waste time.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

Just M.E., i think it is good news that his attorney 'fired' him. If he's that unreasonable, then most like the judge will 'fry' him in the settlement!

[just M.E.]

Thanks BeStrong -

 

Throughout the marriage if I didn't agree with him he said I was "challenging" him, he was real consistent about that, once got so mad at me that he threw a chair through the glass door of our business. I'll stand my ground when I believe in something but I also don't push confrontation with an unstable person. He was a tough person to be live and work with, it was a 24/7 marriage for 6 out of 7 years, "walking on eggshells" is a very good description.

 

I hope this doesn't cause a delay, I am hoping not, I have a good attorney and he is a trial lawyer so he has skill at bringing out the worst in bad people. I have a gut feeling what you say will happen. When the ex doesn't get his way he goes ballistic.

 

To say the least, it will be an interesting couple of weeks coming up. My goal is to stay really busy, exercise a ton for the nervousness and post a lot. This has always had a real nice community feel here. Thanks again.

[coco3]

 

 

To say the least, it will be an interesting couple of weeks coming up. My goal is to stay really busy, exercise a ton for the nervousness and post a lot. This has always had a real nice community feel here. Thanks again.

 

I'm pulling for you... I feel like if you get what you want out of this, there is hope for me too. I know there are no winners in divorce, but you and I seem to have the same goals, not to be a doormat.

 

I agree with the not fighting about a hundred dollars here and there...This entire thing seems ridiculous to me considering we hardly have anything of value together. On another note, do you know if the court takes into account the last bit of all the joint expenses I had to pay? (IRS, credit cards, etc)