sexual attraction - bosses + subordinates - damage control

[Lucy__lou]

So I've been at this company only a short while.

 

In an attempt to be on friendly terms with as many folks as possible, I've been friendly with everyone. One of the people who's been also friendly and smiley to me back, it turns out is one of the top bosses. (although I didn't pay attention in introductions when I started, so I've been treating him just like everybody else... which I now think may have been inappropriate).

 

And because I've just been almost mindlessly friendly with everyone, I think I may have been too smiley with him. And now the back and forth of smiling between us has come to a sudden end, and coincidentally at the very same time as it has stopped, I've sensed some kind of sexual vibe between us. I don't know if it's me or if it's him, but I feel it.

 

(some background info: I'm 29 and attractive, he's significantly older, about 45 or older, kind of attractive for his age, I guess, but whatever, and he's married. And he's the boss, so it's absolutely no way territory).

 

This is bad. He's the boss. I need him as a professional contact, I need to be able to get expert advice from him as much as he has time, so I don't want him associating me with anything sexual. I don't want him avoiding me. This could damage my career. So I'd love any advice or insights into this kind of situation.

 

I imagine that if I just do nothing, that we'll default into ignoring each other, and I am paranoid that if I did want to approach him about anything (for work) that he might feel like I was trying to escalate the sexual tension, which I'm not.

 

How do I improve this situation so that he won't feel weird being friendly and helping me like he would anyone else who was enthusiastic about their job. I want to patch things up but I don't know how to fix it.

[amtjrtcet]

Keep it COMPLETELY professional from this point on.

[recoveringintexas]

KEEP AWAY...seriously. I think you are probably 100% correct about the sexual tension you feel with him, it's real, it's there. You pick up on it, he picks up on it, and you know what....your co-workers likely pick up on it.

 

JUST THINK ABOUT HIS POOR WIFE, PUT YOURSELF IN HER SHOES. HOW WOULD YOU WANT THIS ATTRACTIVE, YOUNG, SUBORDINATE TO TREAT YOUR HUSBAND? Likely you would want her to end the contact immediately.

 

NOTHING GOOD will come out of allowing this to escalate in any way. I was in this position with my boss. I noticed he liked the time we spent together on work stuff more than he should and it gave me the creeps. I turned it off, cold. I was no longer 'friendly and smiley' like I used to be and it impacted our relationship at work. He started treating me in a really gruff manner and I started looking for a transfer...BUT, the thing is, he started having an affair with our secretary and one day I came into work and MY BOSS's office was EMPTY. He'd been let go, literally over night. yeah. HR departments don't take these things likely, especially when you WORK FOR THE GUY and he's MARRIED.

 

Point is, don't think you are the first and last woman this guy has ever tried to 'warm up to' at work. TRUST ME, this is not about you. It's about him and once he can't get anywhere with you, he will move on to the next person.

 

I'm glad to hear you are aware of the possible implications and willing to take the correct actions. There need to be more women like you out in the workplace. His wife and children thank you for saving them the heartache. What goes around, comes around, and hopefully women will respect your marriage when you find the man of your dreams.

[Censored]

i still dont see where you are feeling this.. maybe its just with you.

But something tells me that if he did see you in a sexual light he would use some sort of body language to indicate it.

Smiles are the most basic form of flirtation. I gotta stop frowning

Which you said he isnt doing anymore

Lifting of the eyebrows when he sees you is another one. Both or just one?

Preening of hair, clothes, etc when around you. Like a cat? Does licking my suit coat arm count?

Fingers in pockets or belt loops when around you. How many, 1,2,3,4 or my whole hand?

Standing very tall and 'showing off' is another... Should i buy some "lifters" for my shoes?

 

 

Good stuff in there, tell me the answers and win a prize!!!

 

Ok, as for the OP, keep it professional and stop freting about what this guy thinks. Work is work.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

You should read too much into someone smiling at you. Just smiling does not constitute sexual harassment or anything you should worry about.

 

Also, everything is not about you. By that i mean, perhaps he is no longer smiling because he is stressed out about work, or personal stuff, nothing to do with you.

 

So try not to blow this out of proportion because it sounds like nothing irreversible or bad has happened. Just ramp everything back to one (normal) smile when greeting him (like anybody else), then talk about business when it warrants it.

 

If he is very high up, and you down the totem pole, he won't have much to do with you anyway so i wouldn't worry about it.

[Lucy__lou]

Ok, just to clarify some misunderstandings....

 

recoveringintexas... keeping away is EXACTLY what I'm trying to make NOT happen. That's what this post is about.

 

bestrongbehappy, I never said he was sexually harassing me. the worst thing I fear from him is that he will avoid me or ignore me. There is absolutely nothing creepy about him or anything he's done. I respect him and his work and I want him to remain approachable, should I need his advice or guidance in the future. I want him on side. I want him to want me to succeed, so that he'll assist me where possible, or at the very least, not get in the way of my success. I don't want him running in fear, associating me with trouble, whilst helping out the young boys who he probably identifies with better.

 

 

Equestriandynamo, you're right, I don't have anything solid to base this on, it's just intuition. I felt it. (I hope I'm wrong and that he has just started having a bad day for the last week). And the reason I think I may be onto something is because when I picked up on it, it took me by surprise, because I'd never thought of him in that way. So it's not like I was attracted to him and started projecting. As for the signs you suggested, those were signs of some guy further along on the attraction stage. If there is an attraction or if he thinks I'm interested in him, well he's obviously trying to put an end to it. This is my boss, and he's professional, and my guess is that he's either misunderstood me and thought I was flirting, or he's gone and become attracted to me off his own bat, and because he DOESN'T WANT anything to come of it and because his priority is to be professional, that he's handling it by ending the friendliness. But that's bad for me because I need him to remain approachable.

 

This post is about me and my career. And even though I won't need his help much of the time, I may need it now and again, and he's a really valuable contact. I'm in a field where who you know is very important. And he is a very knowledgeable man who's work I admire. I don't want to reduce our contact over this. I'M SO SICK OF MEN AVOIDING ME. This kind of pattern is all to common in my experience, where men handle inappropriate attraction by ignoring the woman. Sorry, but that's what perpetuates patriarchy. When men help out the guys and ignore the women. And then surprise surprise, the next CEO is that boy who reminded the boss of himself at that age, and took under his wing. You don't work in isolation in my field. If I don't learn to handle this ignoring business now, it's just going to repeat itself next time an authority figure has a sexual response to me.

 

DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT? where a teacher or a boss will ignore an attractive woman in an attempt to avoid being unprofessional? and in the end the woman's education or career suffers because they're ignoring you and helping others?

 

If he's feeling an attraction or thinks I have one, he's trying to do the right thing, but he's going about it in a way that could harm my career, because he's not making himself approachable. But it's not fair because I didn't do anything to deserve this.

 

I'm sure if I was a very confident and outgoing person it would be different. But I am a little bit shy, so I sort of depend on other people being nice to me if I am to approach them. I need a little bit more encouragement. And if someone either finds you attractive or thinks you fancy them, they're going to hold out on the encouragement.

 

I'd love some practical advice on how to get him back on side, so that he finds me approachable, and isn't afraid of anything. I don't work with him much as he's so high up. Just the occasional meeting we're both in.

[JadedStar]

Lucy, I am really grasping to understand why you think there is sexual tension....if the smiling stopped, i don't get why you think there is....seems to me like he would continue to look your way, smile and try to converse...something...

 

I have worked with many senior level managers and executives. Most of them are not the type to have to force themselves to not interact with an employee over sexual tension. These men get to these positions by being better in control of how they act at work. I am sure he no doubt has worked with many very attractive females..

 

I guess wihtout physically being there i dont get how you are determining this is what is going on......it sounds to me more like he might have a lot of things on his plate...i know when i am not as smiley with people in a professional setting it is because priorities had mounted significantly and i was distracted. i didn't mean to be so aloof but when the work is stressing it can happen.

 

 

I wouldn' t do anything to get him back on your side. If you do not report to him and he is someone your boss reports to it would be better to leave this entirely alone IMO.

 

The only other thing that comes to mind is if you were really smiley and he perceived you were flirting iwth him it might not be so much attraction or sexual tension as it is he is trying to avoid giving you the wrong impression. You said yourself you think you might have been inappropriate. He might be embarrassed over something you said...or a flirtatious smile might have made him uncomfortable.

 

I can tell you as a senior level manager in a prior life I did not encourage ANYONE who seemed flirty. There is way too much on the line and there were times a younger guy would be a bit inappropriate (not forward enough for me to report, but body language that made me think there was interest) and i can assure you i avoided them if i could. It is not a comfortable position to have to deal with. I surely hope they didn't think my avoiding the gaze meant i had sexual tension!

 

A professional piece of advice for the future...make it a strong point as soon as possible to familiarize yourself with the company heirarchy and find out who works for who and who is who. That is a good step to take no matter where you work....it is good to know who you are dealing with to avoid the very thing you are combatting right now.

[CaptainPlanet]

I was under the impression most CEO's are too old for their boyhood to have had any real impact on their immediate selection for the job.

 

Most either start up their own company or are part of an exclusive club that almost requires a birthright to high society to begin with, expensive schools ect. I was under the impression the old boys club (private school boys) can be very influential in the professional world. Atleast that is what I have heard about Melbourne.

 

I wasn't going to chime in but I am a little surprised that it matters all that much who you are speaking to, so long as you are respectful I don't understand why there should be a problem.

 

Is there some unwritten corporate law that you do not talk to or socialise with people higher up on the ladder than yourself ?

 

I don't know how relevant it is but I once had a female boss several years older than me whom I had the hots for. I think it was obvious and she knew it, I knew it but we just got on with our working relationship. I don't remember any tension it is what it is people have feelings. You know *shrug* what are ya gonna do ? she gave me a great reference by the end ,ect,ect.

 

How this could be an issue to a 'professional' person I don't understand. Stuff like this happens all the time in regular working life and people kinda just roll on without it causing any problems.

[JadedStar]

I wasn't going to chime in but I am a little surprised that it matters all that much who you are speaking to, so long as you are respectful I don't understand why there should be a problem.

 

You must have missed the part where she said she thinks she might have been inappropriate with him .....

 

Interaction is fine. Being flirtatious the way one might be with a peer is not going to cut it with a superior. Yes, respect is paramount.

 

FYI - CEO's today are as young as 28 years old. Long gone are the days of upper mgmt all being good old boys...

[CaptainPlanet]

I wasn't going to chime in but I am a little surprised that it matters all that much who you are speaking to, so long as you are respectful I don't understand why there should be a problem.

 

You must have missed the part where she said she thinks she might have been inappropriate with him .....

 

Interaction is fine. Being flirtatious the way one might be with a peer is not going to cut it with a superior. Yes, respect is paramount.

 

FYI - CEO's today are as young as 28 years old. Long gone are the days of upper mgmt all being good old boys...

 

CEO's of what companies ? startups no doubt, their own company ?

 

To tell you the truth I know a CEO who is 22. That isn't saying a real lot about the company...

 

What is defined as a peer ? for some people everyone might be considered a superior ? is that part of the reason corporations do not like hiring older people into junior roles ? it creates more opportunities for inappropriate interaction ?

[Lucy__lou]

A professional piece of advice for the future...make it a strong point as soon as possible to familiarize yourself with the company heirarchy

 

Great Advice Jaded. I have begun to familiarise myself with it and will be more careful from now on.

 

 

Lucy, I am really grasping to understand why you think there is sexual tension...

I don't know. I hope I'm wrong. It was just intuition that there was something sexual in the air. Not necessarily that he fancied me, just something. Something to be avoided.

 

 

The only other thing that comes to mind is if you were really smiley and he perceived you were flirting iwth him it might not be so much attraction or sexual tension as it is he is trying to avoid giving you the wrong impression. You said yourself you think you might have been inappropriate. He might be embarrassed over something you said...or a flirtatious smile might have made him uncomfortable.

that's what I'm afraid of...

 

... but body language that made me think there was interest) and i can assure you i avoided them if i could.

that's what I'm afraid of.

 

Live and learn I guess.

[JadedStar]

CEO's of what companies ? startups no doubt, their own company ?

 

To tell you the truth I know a CEO who is 22. That isn't saying a real lot about the company...

 

What is defined as a peer ? for some people everyone might be considered a superior ? is that part of the reason corporations do not like hiring older people into junior roles ? it creates more opportunities for inappropriate interaction ?

 

 

I didn't say 22. But CEO's and executives are getting younger and younger. My last company one of our executives was 31.

 

My point being that the crochety old man exec that you have in your mind is becoming a thing of the past.

[midnightrambler]

I didn't say 22. But CEO's and executives are getting younger and younger. My last company one of our executives was 31.

 

My point being that the crochety old man exec that you have in your mind is becoming a thing of the past.

 

i have worked for 60 year old men, 60 year old women and a 42 year old man.......give me the seniors, the young guys are try way to hard to make a name for themselves and kicking my butt to do so.....

[JadedStar]

to be honest midnight i'd prefer middle of the road. The older men can often be too stuck in their ways, the really young ones think they know more than they do...

 

I prefer bosses aged 35 - 45..

 

But of course there are exceptions in every case.

[midnightrambler]

to be honest midnight i'd prefer middle of the road. The older men can often be too stuck in their ways, the really young ones think they know more than they do...

 

I prefer bosses aged 35 - 45..

 

But of course there are exceptions in every case.

 

 

i suspect that you prefer that everyone would be aged 35-45

[JadedStar]

LOL not at all Midnight!

 

I am specifically talking about bosses.

 

I love all ages of people if i am not working for them. lol

[CaptainPlanet]

to be honest midnight i'd prefer middle of the road. The older men can often be too stuck in their ways, the really young ones think they know more than they do...

 

I prefer bosses aged 35 - 45..

 

But of course there are exceptions in every case.

 

Is that reflected in hiring practices ? Not trying to accuse you of anything just curious.

[JadedStar]

Is that reflected in hiring practices ? Not trying to accuse you of anything just curious.

 

Umm, do you really think i can HIRE my bosses CaptainPlanet?

Umm, NO i cannot. Not even when I was a recruiter.

 

Please read the posts thoroughly before making inane comments. I am talking about people who I prefer to work for, however, I have worked for pepole of all ages and rarely have a problem with management.

 

This statement was the definer - I love all ages of people of all ages if i am not working for them. lol

[CaptainPlanet]

Umm, do you really think i can HIRE my bosses CaptainPlanet?

Umm, NO i cannot. Not even when I was a recruiter.

 

Please read the posts thoroughly before making inane comments. I am talking about people who I prefer to work for, however, I have worked for pepole of all ages and rarely have a problem with management.

 

This statement was the definer - I love all ages of people of all ages if i am not working for them. lol

 

I wasn't accusing you of anything.

 

I just found your comment about the age of a boss having an infuence on their ability to manage interesting. I didn't think their age would have a lot to do with their ability.

 

If you don't want to asnwer the question thats fine. I am only asking a question about how things work, for example, how relevant is a person age in when they are being recruited ?

 

Personally I don't have a preference for what age my boss is so long as they're not overly nasty.

[JadedStar]

NO, you asked me if it was reflected in my HIRING practices. I do not hire the people who would be my boss as that is a conflict of interest.

 

Everyone has a preference CP. In my 20 years of work history the managers i haVe had to date in that age range were my best bosses.

 

YOu are not going there putting words in my mouth. I am talking about the experiences i have had thus far and that could change tomorrow, but today moving backwards this is what it is.

 

When a person is recruited, in my world, age is not a factor except in the cases where some jobs require a certain number of years experience. If a 25 year old can show that they have the experience required for a job that requires ten years of work experience and they can demonstrate that they meet the other innate criteria such as flexibility, customer service orientation and energy then they are qualified. I have hired managers who were as young as 21 and as old as 65.....many management positions REQUIRE ten years+ of a specific type of industry experience...kind of hard for a 25 year old to fit the bill unless they graduated early ... it CAN happen, but rare.

Some management positions only require two+ years of experience. It all depends on the requiremtns of the specific position.

 

I dont appreciate the way you twisted my words. I spoke of my experiences with people i have WORKED for in the past. NOt who i ever hired as a recruiter. You tend to read what you want to read. You said:

I just found your comment about the age of a boss having an infuence on their ability to manage interesting

I was referring to the way i got along with these people personally....not their ability to do any other job...

 

I have also stated i have not recruited in quite a long time but you continue to perceive that I am still in HR. Again, you read and hear what you want to read and hear.

Hardheadness does get in the way of one's career growth if you do that on the job.

[CaptainPlanet]

Not really I am just trying to get a handle of the workings of age discrimination, if it exists and how severe it might be.

 

They didn't make laws against it for nothing. I'm sorry if you have taken that personally.

[Batya33]

Not really I am just trying to get a handle of the workings of age discrimination, if it exists and how severe it might be.

 

They didn't make laws against it for nothing. I'm sorry if you have taken that personally.

 

But JS's posts had no relevance to that topic - it only had relevance when you twisted her words, and then it became your post, nothing to do with hers.

 

I too look at years of experience which do not always correlate with age. One of my colleagues finished grad school approximately 15 years after many people do, and had to go back to entry level in his new career. I suspect that that must be a difficult transition for anyone, not because of age as much as years of experience in a different field where, presumably, you rose above entry level to more middle management or management.

 

I think JS gave excellent advice to the OP.

[CaptainPlanet]

to be honest midnight i'd prefer middle of the road. The older men can often be too stuck in their ways, the really young ones think they know more than they do...

I prefer bosses aged 35 - 45..

 

But of course there are exceptions in every case.

 

Alright, percieved impact of age on a persons performance.

 

Makes me wonder what other perceptions people might have, how common and widespread, what impact it might have on employment practices for more junior employees ?

 

Do I sit here and wonder, or do I ask a question ?

 

Jaded Star and Batya vs little old Captain Planet... just for something different.

[Batya33]

I focus on "but of course there are exceptions in every case" - as long as that is part of the mindset there is little danger of true discrimination. One assumption I make is that someone over 30 or so is going to have a harder time switching careers and starting at the bottom again than someone right out of college. But again that's more about years of experience than age - it's just that years of experience is of course connected to being over 30 or so unless you start working at age 15.

I think it's human to stereotype and label and important to recognize that tendency and to preclude those tendencies from controlling work related decisions.

 

I also think it's fine to notice patterns in your working style and what types of people you blend better with - whether that be someone who is laid back, or high energy. And I think it's human to want to work with people you like and to take rapport into account when assembling a team because even if there is someone who is "brighter" if they don't play nicely in the sandbox the brightness may not compensate for that flaw.

[CaptainPlanet]

Say you've got a 30 year old out of college wanting to be hired into a group of other recent graduates typically around 22 years old.

 

Do you say that 30 year old isn't going to play nice in the sandbox ?