Me, Friend of the Abused, In hot water.

[cc2006]

I'll try and make this brief (which, for those of you that have read my posts, know how difficult that is for me) .. I have to get back to class in a few minutes. I'll add more to this when I get home and as it develops. Please .. just tell me what you think.

 

 

 

 

I met a woman at work. She is in a bad relationship ... abusive ... verbally, physically, emotionally. He is controlling and harmful to her. They have a child. When we met, she spoke of leaving him ... of "having enough".

 

I have a big heart. I am a child who was verbally abused. I watched my mother get abused by a husband as well when I was young. I've had to 'take care of' my mother before, at a young age. I grew up too fast ... and with this fire inside that causes me to leap to the aid of abused women.

 

 

 

 

I tried to stay out of my work-friend's issue. I told her to think carefully about what is best for her and her child, and that I'd be there for her to talk to or for moral support.

 

Last night she called and needed support. She came and hid at my place for the night to get away from her husband while she was trying to "sort things out". I sat up all night and listened to her and tip-toed off to bed when she fell asleep. All night I kept waking up with anxiety over this.

 

This morning she spoke to him on the phone ... told him she was coming home. He asked where she was ... she lied and gave a name of her friend. He caught her .. he had driven around all night visiting her friend's houses ... looking for her. He knew she was with me ... called me out by name ... he had 'caught her' on the phone with me whispering one night that he had been abusive and then gone to bed.

 

(One of the reasons she had chosen to hide at my place was because her husband has only met me twice and does not know where I live.)

 

He assumes she is having an affair with me ... which makes him more angry .. and more abusive. He has now threatened to hurt her severely ... and has told her on every occasion that she has spoken to him today that he is going to kill me.

 

He obviously knows where I work. He is abusive and crazy enough to try and harm me ... and he has harmed other guys she knew before; beaten people to near hospitalization for being 'good guys' and driving his wife home when she had too much to drink instead of letting her drive herself home.

 

She is going with her brother (or has already gone) tonight to pick up some things from her place ... and is going to stay with relatives. She is taking the day off work tomorrow to file a restraining order against him. She is afraid, very afraid, and with good reason.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm afraid as well ... for both her, her child, and for myself. I'm afraid that he'll come and confront me at work about this. He feels he "knows" what has been going on ... when clearly he is just jealously delusional.

 

He thinks I'm responsible for destroying his marriage ... he can't accept that his temper has anything to do with it. He feels "things were getting better". Meanwhile she was trying to muster the strength to make a decision. It has now been made for her.

 

 

 

 

 

 

... I'm also afraid that she is becoming too attached to me. I want to be 'there for her' but didn't want to get sucked into this - which has now happened. Now, I'm trying to walk on eggshells ... I don't want to hinder her progress in changing her situation ... but I don't want to make her think I'm going to start a relationship with her as her marriage crumbles.

 

I told her I'm her friend and am here for her but I know she has feelings for me.

 

 

 

.. I have to go .. sorry for the length of this. Please ... advice? ... offers for shelter to hide in? ... kung-fu lessons?

[melrich]

You should encourage her to go to the appropriate authorities in your area. If she is being physically abused then some action can be taken.

[HappyAsALark]

I agree with Melrich. But you have to understand it is her decision. If she is not willing to leave him then you can really do nothing. The fact that you are the opposite sex is not going to make this situation any better either. You put in the factor that he is already an angry abusive person with the factor that she is hanging out with another male...well that is a DEADLY combination.

[cc2006]

Heya ...

 

I've been talking to her and trying to motion her toward the legal route. She just keeps refusing to do it, basically. She went today to get a restraining order ... but ... when they sat down with her to fill it out she "couldn't" and took it home with her. She "doesn't want to upset him".

 

At least, for now, she is living at her parent's place where it is safer.

 

She agreed to go to mediation with him ... but ... again ... she tells me "but I don't want to, I just want out" followed by "but I'm doing it ... for his sake."

 

 

I dunno' ... I told her I was backing up. I'm here for her if she needs a friend, or advice, or someone to vent to .. etc .. but I'm done with the drama for now, ya' know? My sanity is something I need to keep.

 

 

No issues with anything threatening so far showing up.

 

You're right tho', Lark, the whole "opposite gender" thing caused the problems. I guess he can't imagine a guy helping a girl with a relationship issue and NOT expecting/demanding/getting/whatever .. sex out of it.

[Aurian]

Its ANYONE helping out. The abuser wants the victim to have nobody to lean on because it makes them more easy to manipulate.

 

My ex used to get insanely jealous of message boards, my parents, my sister...

 

Hell, I think the only contact he wasn`t jealous of was the dog. Because the dog couldn`t tell me what a jerk he really was (and could be bribed with table scraps).

[Miss M]

She has a brother, mother and father who are involved? They should really do the most to help her, not you. He has already hurt others who have helped her (and I'm assuming all of them were men, and not men in her family?

 

By getting help from you she knows she is putting you at risk. If she's putting you at risk, (and if you're willing to put yourself at risk knowing what has already happened to others who have helped her), she really needs to quit waffling back and forth. I know what she's going through is difficult, but I'm a bit wary of women who get other men involved while they still are feeling so undecided and addicted to their abusers, especially when he already has a history of beating up guys who have helped her. While she's still being undecided she has pulled you into that very dramatic mess with her. No way is that fair to you. And no way should she pull you in to help her, risking your safety, and then say she doesn't want to upset him.

 

And with your own tendency of being a savior, you need to also watch how addicted you are to getting pulled into this type of situation. I think she might be exploiting you, attracted to the savior aspect of you, leaning on you too much. Does she want you to save her while she still can't save herself? You can't cure her emotional addiction for her; only she can do that. But she is making you a co-dependent, while she continues to succumb to her drug of choice.

 

There are tons of other resources she can use, and they are better able to help her deal with this. They can help her and keep her safe, and can do so without risking harm to themselves. For instance, if you're in the U.S. ...

 

National Domestic Violence Hotline

link removed

1-800-799-SAFE

1-800-799-7233

Hotline available 24-hours a day, 365 days a year, will provide information, crisis intervention, safety planning, and gives referrals to agencies and resources in all 50 states.

[cc2006]

Hey I'm back! .. uhm, if anyone else still pops in here. lol .. been busy lately with life.

 

She has a brother, mother and father who are involved? They should really do the most to help her, not you. He has already hurt others who have helped her (and I'm assuming all of them were men, and not men in her family?

 

She has those people, yes, but until this all boiled over and she finally said "I've had enough ... I'm done" and "I don't love you anymore" she had never really told any of her family anything.

 

Her husband has had her afraid. She was afraid to talk to anyone for fear he would hurt her and also the fact that he is only aggressive and violent and abusive when he has her home alone (or almost alone - some of it has happened in front of a friend of hers a couple times or in front of her son). He supposedly has this nice-guy persona in public or around his friends or their families.

 

She actually told her parents a lot of what has happened and they had a hard time believing her. "He doesn't seem like that," "maybe you're over-reacting", "you should try to work things out", "all marriages have troubles."

 

Happily though, yes, she is now getting some support from her family and it is hopefully growing.

 

.. although he called her parents and talked to them for a little while when she wasn't home and when she got back they started grilling her on why she was being "so difficult" and such.

 

He is really a great manipulator it sounds like ... which is common for abusive partners. They usually have the skills to convince not only the victim that they need them and/or deserve the abuse but those around them that there is nothing wrong.

 

By getting help from you she knows she is putting you at risk. If she's putting you at risk, (and if you're willing to put yourself at risk knowing what has already happened to others who have helped her), she really needs to quit waffling back and forth. I know what she's going through is difficult, but I'm a bit wary of women who get other men involved while they still are feeling so undecided and addicted to their abusers, especially when he already has a history of beating up guys who have helped her. While she's still being undecided she has pulled you into that very dramatic mess with her. No way is that fair to you. And no way should she pull you in to help her, risking your safety, and then say she doesn't want to upset him.

 

We've discussed this. I flat out told her I didn't want to be "in the middle" and she apologized profusely for having it end up that way. Things just snowballed. I don't know her husband ... so I wasn't aware the kind of situation I was dealing with or potentially getting myself into, ya' know?

 

 

 

So .. we had that discussion, I patted her on the back for seemingly making a decision, and I again told her that I'm here if she needs me as a friend but not as a shield.

 

 

Then ... ugh ... then I go out a week ago to attend a co-workers birthday party. Well, I wasn't going to go ... but ... my birthday was a couple days later so I agreed to a "joint" thing, ya' know?

 

Anyway, a few of us from work and a couple non-work friends were all out for drinks and conversation. I sat between my drama-surrounded-friend and one of the guys from work. We had a good time, it was a mostly-happy evening.

 

Afterwards she informs me that it seems her husband "stalked" her at the restaurant/bar we were at. He knew what she was wearing, who attended the get-together (being very deliberate in describing the fact that *I* was there), when she arrived and when she left, and all in all he flipped out on her. It looks like, after some digging, that he called the birthday girl from an anonymous number (she wasn't answering when he called from his own phone) and started threatening her and screaming at her until she admitted to where we all were spending the evening.

 

Afterwards, he proceeded to call around to people they knew (his family, her family, some of their friends) to give them a quick "5 minute speech" about how much of a wh**e he believes his wife is because of what he believes is going on, and trying to win people over to his twisted side of things.

 

Her parents ended up calling her crying ... asking her what she was doing with her life and why she was ruining her family or somethin'. I guess she got into an argument with her mother over it ... although that seems resolved and her family is back in her corner.

 

And with your own tendency of being a savior, you need to also watch how addicted you are to getting pulled into this type of situation. I think she might be exploiting you, attracted to the savior aspect of you, leaning on you too much. Does she want you to save her while she still can't save herself? You can't cure her emotional addiction for her; only she can do that. But she is making you a co-dependent, while she continues to succumb to her drug of choice.

 

Thats part of what I'm scared of ... my own tendencies to save people. I'm trying to work on that ... I know I can't actually save people ... I'm trying to be realistic ... but ... I have this "ugh, I gotta' help" feeling whenever I hear this stuff happening.

 

I dunno' ... why am I drawn to help in these situations? Well, past experiences .. but .. I guess the big question is what can I do to train myself not to try and help? How can you force yourself to not be a nice person when someone is hurting?

 

Again though .. we've talked about this (and I feel like we both end up on the same page) ... about how this is her fight, and I can't and won't save her ... and that she needs to look into therapy for her personal issues in this one. She needs to work on curing herself of this emotional addiction.

 

There are tons of other resources she can use, and they are better able to help her deal with this. They can help her and keep her safe, and can do so without risking harm to themselves. For instance, if you're in the U.S. ...

 

National Domestic Violence Hotline

link removed

1-800-799-SAFE

1-800-799-7233

Hotline available 24-hours a day, 365 days a year, will provide information, crisis intervention, safety planning, and gives referrals to agencies and resources in all 50 states.

 

Thanks for that ... I'll forward it to her. Odds are she'll make a funny noise and not ever look at it again, as she has done with other stuff I've given her, but at least I tried .. right?

 

She seems to not want to admit things are as bad as they are and thereforeeee won't seek more serious help or get the authorities involved. ... OR ... on the flip-side ... maybe they AREN'T as bad as she makes them seem to me?

 

That'd be twisted ... I'd not like that at all. ... I'd feel rather used and mislead and that'd not go over well.

 

 

 

Wow .. babbled ... sorry ... anyway, I gotta' jet, thanks for listening and your advice

[Miss M]

Hey cc2006, just to let you know, I do know a lot about the overall dynamics of abuse, so i do understand all that you've written, his manipulation of her family, his way of painting himself as the good guy and her as the confused one, her inability to tell her family, the family's tendency to criticize her instead of supporting her. It all fits a typical pattern, and makes sense. But I still have concerns about some of what I previously mentioned.

 

Thats part of what I'm scared of ... my own tendencies to save people. I'm trying to work on that ... I know I can't actually save people ... I'm trying to be realistic ... but ... I have this "ugh, I gotta' help" feeling whenever I hear this stuff happening.

I totally can relate to this feeling, because I have it myself. My past has also conditioned me to be the savior of others, so I do totally get what you're saying, and how you're feeling too. I've just given you the same "advice" I've given myself. I had to come to terms with the fact that I can't save everyone I want to save. We just have to learn to let go, because we simply have to make ourselves and our own peace of mind the priority, to keep ourselves from emotional and physical harm. But I know it's much easier said than done. But your case it's definitely best to realize and resist the temptation to try to save someone who is still so ambivalent. At least some of time I've been very clear that the person I want to help has to be more committed to her own salvation than I am. I know I'm just a support person, but not the one who will carry the bulk of the commitment.

 

I dunno' ... why am I drawn to help in these situations? Well, past experiences .. but .. I guess the big question is what can I do to train myself not to try and help? How can you force yourself to not be a nice person when someone is hurting?

It's true you can't just stop caring, and you shouldn't, in my opinion. But you can give yourself very firm guidelines, and commit yourself to following those. It might help to write down some limitations for yourself, tell yourself you're not allowed to cross over a certain line. And then tell yourself what other options are allowed (instead of crossing that line). It really does help to give yourself good "alternatives" to you usual "caring" behavior. To keep an eye on how you're doing, you may try to step outside of your feelings, and just try to watch your behavior in regards to those firm guidelines you've set for yourself. And when you see yourself getting ready to cross the line, you step back and go another route. You say "no" to yourself, and also "no" to the person you want to help (and do try to let go of the guilt while you do that). And then you offer her those other options that don't compromise your guidelines. And then you deal nose-to-nose with the horrible anxiety that rises up from honoring yourself in this new way. Yeah, you sit with that pain (because it will feel painful), and you suffer and try to cope with the symptoms of withdrawal (because it will definitely feel just like withdrawal from a drug).

 

She seems to not want to admit things are as bad as they are and thereforeeee won't seek more serious help or get the authorities involved.

And that is EXACTLY why you need to rein yourself in. As long as she is still ambivalent like that, you really do need to crank it back as well.

 

OR ... on the flip-side ... maybe they AREN'T as bad as she makes them seem to me?

Ya know, it's weird... but I had the same exact thought when I read your earlier post. I did wonder if some of her descriptions about the situation get a bit over-blown when she's explaining them to you. I thought of that because that "savior" quality does tend to evoke the more over-blown version. And do you notice that those who don't care so much tend to get the milder version of the story? Being a caring person does attract more of those types who need to be cared for, and they will exploit and drain you without them even realizing it. Oh well, it's good you're already thinking of it, a good thing to just keep it in mind, and keep an eye/ear open for that.

 

One other thing I'd also like to mention again is in regards her "romantic" feelings for you. When her romantic affection for you gets factored in with everything else, (including her inability to leave her husband), I just see even more reasons for lots of caution on your end. While she still is with him (i.e. a husband who has beat up men who drove her home when she had had too much to drink), wow, she should REALLY just drop all notions of getting romantically interested in another man right now. I wonder if her romantic feelings for you, plus your savior qualities, plus her abusive husband, are all getting mixed up together in some really wacky way. She needs to attend to one thing at a time, not have so many overlapping issues at once. Don't get yourself physically harmed by trying to help a confused woman who is crushing on you while she still lacks the resolve to leave her abusive husband (a husband who has a history of beating up men who try to help her). Take care of yourself above all else.

[Gracelove]

You are such a good friend! So sweet.

 

It's good that she is staying with relatives now. You have a responsibility to look out for your own safety.

 

Situations like this are hard.

 

I don't know if I can give the best advice. When my ex was stalking me, my best friend (a guy) was always there with me, regardless. It made a HUGE difference in my life, and I really appreciate it.

 

But I would always suggest, that one look out for their own safety first.

 

Also, she is right not to file a restraining order.

 

Restraining orders are good for police officers, but not always great for the victims, "It is a declaration of war" ~Gavin De Becker.

 

I would strongly suggest that she read the book, "The gift of fear". Maybe you can suggest it to her.

 

Her husband is extremely dangerous, and will probably try to kill her. She needs to learn how to best protect herself.

 

It's sad. You said she has a child right? Sooooo, so sad.

 

It's harder to run with a child. You have the whole custody thing....if only women didn't bring children into abusive situations.

 

I know they may not always feel they have a choice. Their husband could have raped them, etc. etc.

 

But it just isn't healthy.

 

Run while your pregnant. Before he can prove it's half his.

 

It's just so frustrating.

 

I don't work in law enforcement, or the court system, neither am I a criminal profiler.

So reading about all of the tragic cases in which men have killed their wives....it's just, saddening. You realize it's more common than you ever would have thought. And on top of that there were signs, on top of signs, on top of signs.

 

Anywho, I just wish the both of you the best.

[Nixee]

I think Miss M caught that nail right on the head there. Just personally possessing the mind of a woman, this whole story makes this fact stick out in my mind. Many women fantasize of their 'knight in shining armor'.... and this girl has needed one for some time. You fit the description, my dear.

 

It may sound kinda nice on paper.... getting to be someone's "hero", but as I think you know now... the reality of it is harsh... full of irrationally jealous psycho-husbands or clingy, emotionally unstable women. Sometimes you can still play the hero in more subtle ways.

 

But still.....

 

 

 

This is too right.

[Miss M]

You are such a good friend! So sweet.

This is too right.

And I also TOTALLY agree as well.

 

I was also thinking... "hmm, what could he being doing instead of this?"

 

So yeah cc2006, there are plenty of opportunities to be a rescuer if that's your thing, but why not rescue someone who can rescue you right back?

[BeStrongBeHappy]

If you have a tendency to be a savior based on your own history, you need to stop and think about the dynamic that his happening here between THREE people. Her husband is very much in the room so to speak, with every contact you have.

 

You can be a good friend, but need to be very careful not to make this worse rather than better. You may feel the need to 'save' someone due to your own history, but she may also really be getting a lot of (negative) psychological benefits from setting up a situation where she is persecuted, and her hero (you) rushes in to save her. So you could be a part of a sick game that is going on between her and her husband, and you are playing a role in that game. The game needs to stop, and ALL players in it, including the 'savior' need to stop.

 

What she needs is psychological counseling and/or shelter and professional assistance (as does her husband), not a savior to triangulate into the mix. If all you do is rescue her and constantly be her sounding board and safety valve, she may never leave her husband. She needs the kind of help that is very pointed towards getting her out and getting her counseling, not cycling through getting tons of attention from other people, while continuing in the pattern.

 

My suggestion would be that you start to step back quietly from the role she is encouraging, and instead start to be a reality check for her. If she starts to bring up the latest episode, you need to be very pointed and tell her that you're still discussing the same pattern again and again, and she is not solving her problems, and you continuing to listen to them is not solving her problems. Then refer her to the domestic hotline or sheriff or local services. Tell her you'd be happy to discuss anything else in the universe, and if she wants to discuss a *specific plan* for how she intends to leave, you will discuss that, but that you will not continue to just listen to her complain about something she KNOWS she needs to do something about.

 

By complaining to everyone she knows and NOT doing anything, she is just out shopping for sympathy and not solving her problem. She needs to solve her problem, not suck people into a vortex of her (and her husband's) psychological problems.

 

I also would not be a 'safe haven' for her again, because you are just being an actor in her drama. if she shows up and needs a place to stay, have ready the number and address of a woman's shelter, and immediately call them and offer to drive her there. It is not just a question of your safety, but you do not want to be part of this drama in a way that DOESN'T help. Help for her is professional help, not becoming a player in her drama.

[Miss M]

BSBH, that's a great post, and all very good points. Someone who wants to help, but who is not suffering from the "savior" tendency will handle it just you described... Don't get pulled into a messy triangulation drama, offer support in the healthiest way, emphasize a discussion about real solutions, steer her to the professionals who are best trained to help her, have the hotline numbers handy, names and numbers of local domestic violence resources, and when she shows up on your doorstep in the middle of a crisis drive her to a shelter. Those are some very excellent specifics of the good "alternatives" I mentioned. When she's feeling traumatized she will definitely need clear-headed support from a caring person, but it should be healthy support, not enabling co-dependent behavior.