She was violated, so they got violated.

[Russ]

^ Russ, sorry for the multiple posts but dont you think this is all the more reason why SHE should have gotten the police involved?

 

Also, what is she going to do now? Have you guys follow her to protect her 24/7?

 

I hope she rethinks this and gets the authorities involved.

 

Just my two cents.

 

I thought about it from their point of view. Why get involved with the same chick to get some kind of point accross when they can hit on 20,000 others? They had their asses handed to them, and they're not chimps. No matter how stupid, they'll know its easier to go after some other girl than this one. While that's not a bright aspect, atleast it's one more girl I've helped out.

 

And we did talk to her about legal issues, but she didn't really seem keen on this.

 

 

If those individuals that you beat up chose to report you to the police, you would be prosecuted just like any other criminal. Do you think that the fact that you (or your parents) have money or you get good grades makes any difference? Violence is violence and while the people who resort to it is not all the same, unfortunately the punishment conferred upon them is the same. Think twice next time.

 

I think the girl is the one who loses out the most here, because even though you did the "right" thing, she's still terrified, and even if she wants to report their threats to the police, she would probably be hesitant to do so, because they could report you in turn.

 

I'm not saying I don't respect a guy standing up for someone, but I think it's clear that it wasn't the best choice. Maybe you won't suffer the consequences this time, but just be careful because next time you might not be so lucky.

 

I'm feeling like this is turning into a judgement of me. It's perfectly fine, but I feel I need to clarify that Im in eCommerce, and it is my money. Im not a second-generation rich kid.

 

Also, none of my friends, or I, are stupid. We covered the bases. We had ski masks, etc. We are still encouraging the girl to go to the police, though both we, and she, know that that won't accomplish much.

 

To stop further analyzation, if these guys had one reason to be beat up, they probably had about a thousand others. So no, they couldnt isolate it onto my friend's girlfriend.

 

Im glad Im getting feedback on this. The more I defend the situation, the more I get to look at it from different angles. I didnt pick the right choice, but I did pick the best possible one. The girl can still be perfectly able to involve the authorities, but she's just keen on forgetting the incident. She knows we're there for her.

[Snoopy24]

I think what you did was not called for at all.

 

Ok so they scared her. If they wanted to hurt her I am sure they would have. So I don't think they are "potential" rapists. I mean...maybe. But I highly doubt it. They were just being immature. What they did was very wrong. But not deserving of you hurting them.

 

Now if someone hurt her in any way, I would say call the police. But they didn't.

 

And you should really be ashamed of yourself.

[Russ]

I think what you did was not called for at all.

 

Ok so they scared her. If they wanted to hurt her I am sure they would have. So I don't think they are "potential" rapists. I mean...maybe. But I highly doubt it. They were just being immature. What they did was very wrong. But not deserving of you hurting them.

 

Now if someone hurt her in any way, I would say call the police. But they didn't.

 

And you should really be ashamed of yourself.

 

Thanks, but read all of my posts. Not just my first. If she hadnt reached for the phone, they would've done that to her. The phone scared them off.

[melrich]

Thanks, but read all of my posts. Not just my first. If she hadnt reached for the phone, they would've done that to her. The phone scared them off.

 

To be honest Russ, you weren't there. You got told what happened by a distraught friend.

 

It may have happened that way, it may not have. No one knows.

[Jeffrey2095]

Actually, when someone is so terrified, they can use deadly force and not necessarilly be prosecuted.

 

Temporary insanity.

 

It is not so much what those guys didn't do, (ie: rape) but what the victim thought they would do.

 

I was in a similar situation, you can PM me if you want Russ.

 

But, I do agree with almost everyone in that it was not the wise thing to do, maybe the emotional thing, and I do understand that from my experience, but not the best thing.

 

It would have been better to report it, although I doubt they would have done anything, at least it would be on record.

 

Next time, just get as much info as you can on the bullies, and give that to the cops, that's the only thing to do here.

 

Jeff

[bulletproof]

What if one of the guys you attacked had a gun? Would this have been worth you and/or one of your friends losing your lives?

 

Over many years, the one thing I have learned is that you never know who is absolutely insane. You just don't. This could have turned out to be a lot worse than a woman getting freaked out. I'm not minimizing her trauma, by any means- I'm female and I know how scary that type of situation can be- but she was not physically harmed, and you guys could very easily have been seriously injured or killed.

 

And I agree with those who said the police should have been notified, because once it is on record it helps if there are future incidents of this. Sometimes repeated reports will help police track down serial rapists/murderers. I also agree with those who pointed out that physical violence (as well as a host of other punishments) doesn't deter criminals. They are criminals because they don't care about consequences.

[RayKay]

Actually, when someone is so terrified, they can use deadly force and not necessarilly be prosecuted.

 

Temporary insanity.

 

It is not so much what those guys didn't do, (ie: rape) but what the victim thought they would do.

 

I was in a similar situation, you can PM me if you want Russ.

 

But, I do agree with almost everyone in that it was not the wise thing to do, maybe the emotional thing, and I do understand that from my experience, but not the best thing.

 

 

It would have been better to report it, although I doubt they would have done anything, at least it would be on record.

 

Next time, just get as much info as you can on the bullies, and give that to the cops, that's the only thing to do here.

 

Jeff

 

The self-defence defence generally applies only in IMMEDIATE circumstances. By the victim or at least someone in very close proximity to the victim.

 

Not friends going and finding the people later purposely, in response to what they "might" have done but did not do.

 

 

I agree with those whom said this is something you should let the AUTHORITIES handle. I am sure she was scared as she was alone and being followed, but there is no way of knowing what they "might have done". They may have just enjoyed terrorizing her a bit in a sick way. If they really wanted to hurt her...her pulling out a cell phone would not have deterred them.

 

Does not matter if you are educated, good prospects or any of that.....pulling crap like that can get YOU in jail, and sitting in there longer than it would of taken to finish your degree. Or you or one of you friends could of ended up dead.

[Snoopy24]

Thanks, but read all of my posts. Not just my first. If she hadnt reached for the phone, they would've done that to her. The phone scared them off.

 

Ok,you don't know what would have happened, and even if that was the case it isn't your place to hurt anyone.

[Jeffrey2095]

Yeah, you're right and I should have included that.

 

It is not temporary insanity to later come back and stalk these guys, and by omission I did not intend to imply that it was.

 

Jeff

[RayKay]

That third sentence is the key. Im not a gangster, I dont live in a ghetto, and I hate the way this sounds, like a goddamn movie, but if they bother looking me up, they'll know I have money and am willing to use that money. It's a fact that's been proven so many times.

Since "beating someone up" (aka assault) is actually a CRIMINAL offence, it does not matter how much money they don't have or you have...it would be the state/government prosecuting you - not these guys (they would just be witnesses).

[sti_2004]

I just lost some respect for this board.

 

 

Russ Don't let the crowd get to you.

I think what you did shows us how much heart you have. What a lucky girl to have mates like you. The fact that you feel a bit guilty shows me even more how much of a good person you are. I dont know you but im sure you don't go around just beating people up for fun.

 

Im sure the tone here would be much different if we heard about 3 guys on the run after raping and killing a young women ( like we always hear about).

 

of course he can get the book thrown at him. he knows that. even if he did get in trouble its worth it. A judge isnt so dumb to be in favor of some future rapists like what seems to be the case here..

 

i come from a developed country but its a VERY liberal place.... a place where women get raped and killed on a bi-weekly basis. loners get jacked and killed . A place where cops get yelled at and humiliated by everyone, a place where your generally not safe to live freely.

 

Men that prey on girls like that deserve much worse than a beating.

Im really glad shes safe.

im 99.1% sure these guys will go after another girl sometime in the future and im 90% sure that atleast one of them will be spending their lives in prison at some point.

russ maybe you can find out their addresses so some of these members can send out teddy bears get well soon cards....

 

it would kill me if any of my female (or male) friends were terorised like that.

 

 

your a stand up dude.

[Russ]

That made me laugh so hard. Thank you.

 

Like I said, Im not sure anyone here would simply go to the authorities if it was their sister raped. It was a very close call, and if they did go through with it, it probably wouldn't have been in my hands that they'd be dead.

[RayKay]

I actually have had family members whom were raped, as well as my best friend in high school. And the authorities were called.

 

You keep saying it was a close call; but you have NO idea what would of happened. They never got out of the car, they just followed her and yelled things at her.

 

I am sure she was scared, as I said, and I am glad she is okay, but we keep talking about them as if they ARE rapists or something....and the truth is you have NO IDEA WHAT THEY WERE. For them, just terrorizing her may have been enough. Maybe one of them just thought she was cute and has a very perverted way of showing it (by following her).

 

 

I am sure it felt "good" to do it in the sense that you feel it equalized things, but it didn't. All it did was mean if they ARE threats they will just be more careful next time, and it just means one less person to report it to the authorities, and it just perpetuates that violence against women is something that can stay "underground". I volunteer with women whom are the victims of violence, and the last thing they need is for these issues to be pushed underground....

 

And the judge would not be in "favour of future rapists" - you can't punish people for what they MIGHT be. You punish people for evidence that they ARE criminally responsible.

 

I agree with whomever said you have to be smarter than these people. Not stoop to the same level. You have a promising future, last thing you should be doing is going and getting a criminal record and sitting in jail. What if when you had beat them up you had killed them for example? It happens. There are cases where even a kick in the stomach resulted in someones death because of a fluke of some sort and the guy went to jail. "Murder" or "manslaughter" tends to be a career and life-changing thing to go on your record, and it's hard to have a life when it is all planned around a daily 24 hour schedule for you.

 

It was not self defence....as it was planned and deliberate (heck you had SKI MASKS to go do it). And no court would say "oh, well, it's okay as they MIGHT have hurt this girl" given there is no evidence they would have at all.

 

As I said, I am glad she is okay and I understand she would be scared after something like that - she should probably see someone for that; but this solved nothing in the scheme of things and she sure does not "feel better" either by the sounds of it.

[SapphireNoir10]

Violence or hatred that is met with violence and hatred is what causes half of the worlds problems.

[melrich]

Well, and it is a personal perspective, but from what you decribe it does not ring true that they were going to rape her.

 

I can't see why they would so clearly telegraph their intentions if they did not have control of her. Or if they did have control of her, then the appearance of a mobile phone is extremely unlikely to deter a group of marauding youths intent on pack rape.

 

And if they were going to rape her and she was so sure then she should do the courageous thing and tell the cops. All you have done is make it worse for the next victim because rapists/potential rapists do not make the same mistake twice.

[Russ]

And if they were going to rape her and she was so sure then she should do the courageous thing and tell the cops. All you have done is make it worse for the next victim because rapists/potential rapists do not make the same mistake twice.

 

Actually, that's a characteristic of anyone with a criminal mindset. They will repeat the same mistake twice. They just wont repeat it with this girl, and while we'll tell her to talk to the cops, like I've said, she just wants time to get over it.

 

And yes, they might've not had the intentions to do anything to her. I admit that they were just shouting things. But they scared her bad, and that's enough. These people probably get it on a daily basis, so we just added a notch to the already notch-filled stick.

[Papillion]

i think the OP did a good thing.

 

i applaud the OP.

[bulletproof]

Nobody is saying that your motivations were not good (you were motivated out of love for a friend) but it was still an incredibly unsafe thing to do. You never answered posters who asked, what would you have done if these guys had a gun? Was it worth you and your friends dying? Do you think your female friend would think that it was worth you dying?

 

You may think that can't happen, but it can. People are nuts. Incidents as small as someone cutting another person off in traffic can result in crazy violence or death because when you enter into conflict with someone you don't know, you are taking a huge risk.

 

Not to mention that what you did was illegal. Whether we like the law or not, it's in place so that people aren't getting revenge on each other left and right. Because some of those people that feel justified in getting revenge are not in fact justified.

[melrich]

I admit that they were just shouting things. But they scared her bad, and that's enough.

 

No, it is not enough to warrant a beating. I'm sorry it is not. Like the others, I understand that your intentions were good but your actions were wrong.

 

Some youths were shouting obscenities at a girlfriend of yours. Later when you heard about it, you and a group of mates donned ski masks and went and tracked them down and gave them a beating.

 

It's wrong on so many levels. Society won't condone it. I hope the lesson you are learning from this post is that despite your good intentions, what you have done is not a good thing. It is not an acceptable response.

[Lucy__lou]

Hey Russ,

 

I'm seeing what I often see here on ena, which is very rational and detached responses to something done in an emotional context. We're here on computers talking to you, a faceless person, whereas you were reacting to something which happened to a real friend in real life who you care about.

So you always have to understand that some of our responses are lacking in the emotional, and overly rational.

I will add to the pile of respondents which says "violence teaches the language of violence" but I guess you've already heard that one.

I also agree with those who said is sounds like you did what you did because you cared for your friend.

I cannot comment on whether the revenge violence will make your friend or any other women safer, or as another poster said, push terrorism of women underground.

 

I think terrorising women with the threat of rape IS a form of violence. If a person's actions cause a woman (or man) to be afraid and unable to walk down the street at night freely, then the person has harmed her/him. They have taken away her/his freedom to be a full citizen. It should be a crime, and I think we all should fight the things in this world which make women afraid of rape until all women feel free to walk down the street any time of night, alone. Hell, women should feel free to hitch hike and not be afraid of rape. How is it that we simply make all these precautions in our life, basically accommodate for the presense of rapists as if it were inevitable!

 

I encourage you to keep the rage you felt at those guys when you saw how terrified your friend was, and use that rage to fight all the things in this world which contribute to guys doing what those guys did. If beating those guys up satisfied you and you're no longer angry, then it was a waste. You need to keep that anger inside you and fight the root causes of violence towards women. Fight it with something other than your fists. As a female who often feels like guys don't care much about the violence problem in our society, I am touched that you would get so angry at what these guys did to make your friend afraid.

 

I don't support your choice of action, but I know what it's like to want to retaliate. I often imagine up revenge attacks when guys on the street shout things at me that make me feel like a piece of meat that doesn't need to be respected or let be. I've never carried them out, and if you let the emotions pass and think rationally about how you could reduce this kind of ugly behaviour, you'll probably be able to think of something more effective than revenge attacks. I'm sure a lot of people would have had an urge to do something similar if they were in your shoes, and even more so if these guys had followed through and raped her.

 

I think you would do well to sit down and think of ways you could have helped your friend not be afraid anymore, and reduce the chances of these guys doing what they did again, but without violence. Once you have that, maybe you'll regret what you did, and you can forgive yourself and discourage others from doing revenge attacks. Until then, you'll probably feel conflicted as you seem to now; feeling bad but also feeling like you did the best thing you could have done at the time. How does your friend feel about what you did? has she told you? I think I would be embarrased to have friends who used violence on my behalf. I'd probably distance myself from them actually. It's much better for a woman to be able to defend herself than have an entourage of thugs (yes you) to protect her. I know you said you're not typically a thug type, but I'm sure you know that what you did was thug like.

[Russ]

I do get angry every time I think about it. Which is why I tend not to think of it much.

 

Yes, what I did was thuggish, but hey, at my age, thinking things rationally for a few days really isn't an option. I understand that.

 

In the future, if I face something like this, I dont know what I'll do. Id like to think that cops are a form of protection, but unless I get a few friends in the police, I doubt that'll be any good. I'll just make sure my friends avoid these kinds of situations. Afterall, it's not a daily thing for me here. It happened once, in 4 years that Ive lived here. It's not a daily occurrence.

[Lucy__lou]

I do get angry every time I think about it. Which is why I tend not to think of it much.

Getting angry is good. But don't focus on the individual guys. Think about all the messages society has given them that has taught them that they have the right to act in this way.

 

I'd like to think that cops are a form of protection, but unless I get a few friends in the police, I doubt that'll be any good. I'll just make sure my friends avoid these kinds of situations. Afterall, it's not a daily thing for me here. It happened once, in 4 years that Ive lived here. It's not a daily occurrence.

 

I'm sure it's better in Vancouver than in a lot of places, but even if these dudes didn't exist, the threat of sexual violence towards women would still exist. One constructive thing you can do for your friend is to encourage her to learn some self defence. I don't think that relying on the cops for all social hazards is exactly clever. Cops can never be the answer to all our social problems. I agree with you that prevention is the best method.

[dragon111]

There was alot of little wars in my area when i was younger, and having brothers and a couple of families with alot of boys in my immediate area, we were the good guys, i had a degree of automatic protection (not that i cant protect myself) as well as a degree of being a target in a gang that i had never even joined. Now that we are older the people who used to fight now happily play pool and snooker with eachother in the pubs. So i think what i'm saying is, although physical violence seems a good idea at a certain age when you see things differently, it should be avoided at all costs in reality, as people seem to understand as they grow older. So in theory what you did i agree with, but in practice it is not so good.

[EQD]

we need some Boondock Saints in every town i think.

Criminals arent afraid anymore. Like rapists.. You think that if a guy tried to rape a girl and she stabbed him or shot him.. what would be the chances that they would think twice before raping again?

As opposed to

a)never being turned in or caught

or b)months after the fact being turned in for it, fined, jailed, and released.

To an extent i believe we as people need to stop playing "victim." It would be nice if we didnt have to live in fear of people who is sadistic and dangerous, but that isnt life.

It takes a wolf to catch a wolf.

[bulletproof]

Like rapists.. You think that if a guy tried to rape a girl and she stabbed him or shot him.. what would be the chances that they would think twice before raping again?

 

Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. Serial rapists have uncontrollable urges that don't just disappear when they have a victim who fights back. If anything, it enrages them more for the next time.

 

Plus, that's a different scenario- a woman should fight back if she is being raped, if she's able to fight back, but the o.p.'s situation was not self-defense. It was after the fact, premeditated, and based on conjecture.