Am I a leper? (catch 22 no friends = no friends)

[Lucy_lou]

Am I a leper? (catch 22 no friends = no friends)

 

I have been posting mostly replies on here for a few weeks now, but I've finally got the guts up to post one of my main problems which has a BIG influence in my life. So I would very much appreciate any insights people have. I don't usually dare mention it to anyone, because it invites so much prejudice. But I'm hoping with the (relative) anonymity here I can get some honest answers.

 

I have a recurring problem of loneliness, which has been following me around for a long time.

 

So here’s me:

 

I’m 28. Moved to a new town a few years ago for work, where I didn’t know anyone, and I still don’t really know anyone. I’m at college too, but I haven’t made any friends there either.

 

More background info: I’m shy, I’m a bit weird, I’m bisexual, (not that it’s relevant, I just chucked that detail in for some colour) I’m not really into hanging out and socialising all the time, but I do like to connect with people. I do occasionally get invited to parties, but usually I don’t go because I don’t have any friends there. (catch 22 again), Often I’ll be invited by someone who isn’t even my friend, you know. Someone who can’t be bothered asking me out to coffee or anything, but will invite me to their party, and I don’t enjoy parties where I don’t know anyone. I don’t like parties as ways to meet people. I prefer the one on one. I like to develop trust with a person before I hang out with them in a group, or at a party. I wish people would invite me out for coffee, or over for a cup of tea, or out to the pub, or something like that. I would do the same, but I feel like I would be seen as a lonely old lady trying to lure people into my world, and I think people get creeped out.

 

 

It's the whole issue of people avoiding you because you don't have any friends. I'm not sure if people think on some unconscious level that they'll catch what I have, or if they feel like it's no compliment for me to want to hang out with them because I'm probably just lonely. Or if they assume that since nobody else likes me that there must be something inferior about me. But I'm aware of these prejudices, and as a result I've for the most part withdrawn from trying to make friends, because I'm sick of the rejection.

 

My town is the kind of town where everyone knows everyone, and people don’t bother to make an effort to know you a lot of the time, because they can so often rely on just seeing you around, you know, at parties or out. It’s just so easy to make friends without making much of an effort for most people. But I don’t go to the parties, so no one ends up seeing me around, because I don’t go to parties, and I don’t go out, because I’ve got no one to go out with. I don’t go out alone, because I get so self conscious about the idea of people thinking I look tragic. I just stay in. That’s why I’m on the internet now, instead of having a life. It’s the weekend, and I’m at home again.

 

Another detail about me, is that I think I come accross in a sort of confident way that makes people think that if anyone is going to do the approaching, it’s me. I don’t know, but I’ve noticed a few strangers who I see around a lot a college look at me in a way as if to suggest that they were somehow disappointed that I hadn’t gone up and talked to them yet.

 

But the thing is (and this is an important detail, boys and girls), the only way I can cope with this life, and avoid the distress that I would otherwise feel on a daily basis from caring if people like me or not, is to CONTINUOUSLY ASSUME THAT NOBODY LIKES ME. (sorry for the capitals, I just wanted to stress my point.) this is the way I approach life. It is my survival mechanism. I’ve learned that the only way to feel secure, and not get crushed is to make this assumption, and approach the world accordingly. I know it sounds negative, but I just can’t take the rejection any more.

 

 

I don’t want friends just for the sake of it, but I do want to connect with people, and for people to give me the time of day, but one on one with people you hardly know is often just too intense for most people.

 

So that’s my story. And I’m sorry if this is long and boring.

 

Advice?

[buckdawg]

i'm so sorry you feel that away.

[Jayar]

I've been surprised as I got older that there are LOTS of women in our position. You know, if you don't marry out of college and/or stay friends with those you met there, who do you become friends with?

 

I suggest getting out there and doing some activities. Friends come from shared interests. Alternatively, you can try to network through classifieds. Don't laugh! It's very commonly done where I am! A young woman will post something like "looking for young, single girlfriends (preferably not tied down with kids either) to hang with..." I've met a couple friends through things like that.

 

Also, not sure if it's an option, but maybe a bigger city would be a more appropriate place for you to be? I think small towns are GREAT... For married couples that want to raise their babies there. Not necessarily for those of us looking for a social life (which probably includes a relationship at some point, huh?)

[OOHMY]

I'm only a few years younger than you, and I'm the exact same way. I don't know anyone.

 

It all sucks, but thats such a problem for so many so your not alone.

 

If there isn't, there should just be a site to make friends. LOL okay thats a bit creepy and weird and odd in general, but I don't know.

 

I just wish you luck, because I really wouldn't know what to tell you!

[Devchonka]

HUmmm.

 

Well.

 

Ive come to an opposite problem from you...in a sense. I want to make more friends (i have plenty of people i know but im looking for friends) because mine are graduating and are generally low on time these days...i want to make the friends by being open and my usual fun loving self with people, but people these days...especially at college in philadelphia, are so closed in and self conscious that a lot of the times they don't stick because im too open and expressive. A lot of the time when i even start by asking how was your day, almost everyone gives me a half assed reply of good, pretty pleasant day. It makes it hard from the very beginning, for every question of trying to get to know a person they have already assumed no one really cares to know anyting about them and to answer politely with automatic, generalized responses.

 

Im starting to become closer to three people, one girl in particular...but its taking forever to break her into the idea that i actually want some personality from her and want to know what shes really like.

 

My point i suppose is, if youre looking to interact with people, and youre easy going and a plesant person...youll find someone. Youre closed in and assume no one likes you. Why? Have you ever concidered that its not you thats the problem, its the fact that everyone else around you is also guarded too...just because they have friends means nothing. For you, maybe starting a talk with a person that is very chatty in the classes youre taking, is a great way to go. Personally i always gotten along with chatty open people much better. Openness invites company.

 

Just start speakin to people next to you in class, be open. If you look scared and awkward after askign a question or making a commet, of course people will think "did she just ask this from me? she looks afraid of even recieving an answer". Look interested and people will begin opening up.

[timboo]

Hi Lucy. My names Tim and when i read your post it felt like i was reading my life history. obviously i'm male, and i'm straight, but otherwise we seem really really similar. maybe. i'm 29 btw.

 

i understand your feelings of rejection. i didn't have any real friends at school and when i went to college it was a complete nightmare- i was totally unprepared for the world i was about to enter. i had crippling social anxiety and everyone else seemed about 10 years older. it was awful, people thought i was a loser or a snooty guy who was too good to mix with the others. no-one tried to get to know me, they were too busy trying to be cool. we ended up mutually hating each other which was horrible.

 

later i was angry at my parents for not noticing i was really having social difficulties. they never talked to me about it, just hoped i would turn out like my very successful sister. anyway, i bombed, so i guess their 'doing nothing' backfired.

 

i was desperate to have friends and a girlfriend at college but there was like a choke around my throat whenever i had the chance to connect. i went to a few parties but i was so embarrassed and self conscious i usually ended up sitting in a toilet cubicle wishing i was at home. if anyone was nice to me i assumed they were taking the ****

 

towards the end of college i lived with some nice people, other students who needed someone to fill a room. we had laughs but it never felt real, i felt like a sham. i had a good summer then plunged back into suicidal misery and really lost it. making friends has just been a dead loss. i don't know where to go anymore. i lost my job recently, i was fed up and couldn't concentrate.

 

i am so tired after ten years of this, it wears you down. i just wish i could snuggle down in someones arms and forget all this. i see other people hugging and kissing and it feels like someone is ripping my insides out. it hurts so bad.

 

it would be good to talk, maybe we can help each other out.

where do you live btw?

 

Tim

[renaissancewoman101]

I agree with the others. Go out and get involved with social groups. Sit at a coffee shop in the morning and write. Don't hang at home. Be out and about. Eventuallly, if you are a friendly person and have a pleasant personality, you'll meet people.

 

Staying home and hiding out is the kiss of death. All it will do is lead you to be a recluse. I do that a lot and it isn't always conducive to my well-being.

[buckdawg]

can i go out on a limb here? i might suggest that you are not entirely comfortable in your own skin. i used to be like that.

 

sound familiar?

[OOHMY]

Am I a leper? (catch 22 no friends = no friends)

 

^^^ That makes no sense to me!!!

[Hearts]

I'm feeling exact the same as you, i wish I could have gave some advice to you but I couldn't find how to approach this problem either.

Though I'm not out of hopes yet so although I feel anxiety and stress I'm gonna be forcing myself to break it, because doing nothing and hide won't solve nor change anything for me.

And I would be really dying to hear some advices from others about how to solve this.

[puff.tm.dragon]

I totally get what you're saying. It's very hard to get a social life when you don't have a social life. I know it's strange but it makes sense. When you have no friends, you are looked at differently. It's very hard for me as well because I am in the same situation now.

 

I'm socialable, I just have no social life. I get lonely a lot and it's so hard some times. I just feel like breaking down.

[Hearts]

From the look of this thread, it seems there are many people having the same problem, but isn't there anyone who knows a good solution for this a solution that can ease all the negative thoughts and fears which are keeping us to have a healthy social connection?

[Lucy_lou]

Wow, I didn't expect such a flood of empathetic people. Keep it coming!

 

but we haven't made much progress have we.

 

Is there anyone out there who has friends who might enlighten us as to how you percieve people who have none?

 

Do you value their interest in you if they would try to talk to you and maybe even befriend you? You know, if they seem alright otherwise?

 

Staying home and hiding out is the kiss of death. All it will do is lead you to be a recluse. I do that a lot and it isn't always conducive to my well-being.

 

I think the advice in putting yourself out there is the best advice so far. thanks for that. I mean, whatever its effectiveness, it's guaranteed to up the probability of the universe acting in your favour.

 

Actually, there have been a few people, mostly boys I've seen around college who I suspect may be in a similarly lonely position, (nice boys, gentle, shy boys). I've been tempted to go up and be friendly, (actually I have sometimes), but I always wonder if they'll think I'm just talking to them because I'm alone. I guess it's just that same old stupid fear of rejection.

 

 

I think the answer, really, is to just be friendly and not let the fear stop you. Because even if they snub you, at least you're making the world a friendlier place, and if we all did that, then people like us wouldn't be on this thread telling each other this pitiful sob story.

 

But I have a new approach to rejection. I't below if you have nothing better to do than read it....

 

Actually, this week there was a boy at college who I'd previously been friendly with, and who had the last time I saw him been rude to me, (I asked him how he was going and he just grumbled something like, yeah, alright, and went back to his work.) so with him I now don't talk to him. He's on my black list. But the way I am looking at life now, there are hundreds of people who haven't rejected me yet, so I have plenty of other people who are innocent before being proven guilty (i.e. potentially friendly). So yeah, I'm just going to stick with the 'one strike and you're out policy' and go about being the friendly person that I know, deep down I am.

 

Oh! I have another insight too. (for those still reading)

 

Some societies are better equipped to handle shyness. To generalise, Americans are less shy, and the British are too shy. But how the British handle shyness, (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that they drink lots of beer, sip lots of tea, and take lots of ecstasy. Scandinavians on the other hand, are less in denial of their shyness, and they structure their social activities in ways which put people at ease. I don't really know if this is right, but I've been told it by a Swede, and I even went to a 'party' with some Swedes where there were only 6 of us, candles, dinner, wine, and get this... GAMES! ( I can't remember what kind of games, I think it was story telling games, like exquisite corpse or something) it sounds totally dorky and guess what, it is, but it worked and it was great. 4 ofus were shy people, but we all had a great time and got to know a lot about each other. I really do believe a lot of other societies don't cater for shyness. They have a sink or swim type of attitude to shy people. And Extroverts have an undeserved high status.

 

 

Ok, so I'm trying to answer my own question here, but don't let that stop anyone answering. I still want help, and thank you!

[bulletproof]

I went thru a similar period when I moved somewhere new. Now I have quite a few friends, and with hindsight I also have a few realizations.

 

First off, waiting for someone to ask you to go to have coffee, etc., is futile. You will have to do the inviting. And that means dealing with rejection sometimes, but you can't take it personally. That person might just be busy, or be having a bad day, whatever. The same goes for your 'blacklisting' policy. How do you know that the guy who was unpleasant to you hadn't just received some terrible news and certainly didn't mean to lash out at you? People are human, and we all make mistakes. I am not always the most pleasant person but I certainly hope a friend or potential friend wouldn't blacklist me for it.

 

As for not wanting to go anywhere because you currently have no friends, I don't see anything wrong with going somewhere on your own. How are you supposed to know people if you just moved there? If anyone were to ever ask you why you attended something alone (which they wouldn't) then there would certainly be nothing wrong with saying 'I'm new to the area and don't know many people yet.' I used to have the same fears as you and I finally realized that there is no shame in not knowing anyone, nor is there shame in asking co-workers or acquaintances what their plans are for the weekend.

 

Finally, 28 is not old. That is ridiculous. One of the biggest similarities amongst shy people is a high level of self-consciousness. They are convinced that everyone is thinking about them. Nobody cares if you go out alone, because everyone is too immersed in their own lives and minds. You would not be viewed as some lonely old woman, because you're not old and because nobody's thinking about what you're doing!

 

Start embracing your life! You are very young and you have a whole exciting new town to explore. Do it on your own and it will make you feel stronger, and more confident, so that the next time someone invites you to a party you can say yes.

[Lucy_lou]

Thanks bulletproof,

 

in response to your advice, I'll clarify a few things...

 

first, I'm not new, (I've been here for years,) that's the sad thing. It's taking me forever.

 

also, I have tried going out alone, and I always feel really awkward. I don't know how not to. I stand out as it is with the way I dress. I'm told by a number of sources that people do indeed notice me. I still do it occasionally, but it does take a toll on my nerves. And I'm into looking after #1 these days.

 

as for black listing, I know it's totally harsh, but its desperate measures for desperate times, cause I'm so vulnerable and I get rejected enough already that I need some sort of safety mechanism, and that's it. If I go around giving people second chances, I'm going to risk doing too much damage to myself and my dignity. It's my recourse. People may look down on me and impose their prejudices on me, but I don't have to let them do it to me more than once. Once is enough to learn if someone is capable of being mean to me. They may be having a bad day, or they may just be taking it for granted that I'm bothering to talk to them, in which case, I can't afford to be taken for granted. I've got no nice warm friendly place to return to if the outside world is cold and cruel to me, so I can't afford to expose myself so recklessly.

 

As for not taking rejection personally, I think it's reasonable to keep in mind that some people actually don't like me. That's nature. we don't like everyone. I think I'm a bit of an acquired taste, and not to most peope's tastes.

 

 

anyway, just clarifying the details. But I appreciated your feedback, and you're right about my needing to grow some balls, (not that you said that exactly)

 

any other advices?

[bulletproof]

I know it seems like blacklisting or not taking risks is a good way to protect yourself, but ultimately it's making the situation worse.

 

I feel like I'm still missing a few details. Why would how you dress be such a problem? I think if you have a very noticeable personal style, you need to have the type of personality to accept that people might look at you. If you don't have that type of personality, then maybe it's time to reassess your style, because at that point it's just hindering you socially. It's kind of like the guy who walks around with a green mohawk and then gets outraged that people are staring. It doesn't make sense.

 

If you are feeling this vulnerable at this point in time that it's causing you to make choices you wouldn't normally make in order to protect yourself, it might be time for a therapist. You can't go on like this forever (as you seem to know) so I guess the question is, how far are you willing to go to change the situation?

[JadedStar]

Well I read on another post that you have guy friends where you have admitted attraction and the g/f then doesn't want them hanging out with you anymore. I can honestly say if you do this a lot, you are not going to get a huge array of friends.

 

The men are going to be leary of hanging wtih you so as to not tick off their g/f s and the g/f's are not going to be too happy with you either.

[Lucy_lou]

Well I read on another post that you have guy friends where you have admitted attraction and the g/f then doesn't want them hanging out with you anymore. I can honestly say if you do this a lot, you are not going to get a huge array of friends.

 

The men are going to be leary of hanging wtih you so as to not tick off their g/f s and the g/f's are not going to be too happy with you either.

 

Busted!

 

That's a valid point, Jaded. However I haven't gotten much of a rep in the new town I'm in for that.

 

And some of you might not believe me when I say this, but my shenanigans of the past were sooo not done from a position of maliciousness. I'm more tragically innocent in my inability to understand monogamy. I behave myself these days, and I'm wary of expressing my attraction for people who are involved, even though I'm always aware that in an ideal world (in my ideal world) no one would have to hide their feelings and there'd just be lots of openness and love flowing freely, ) but that's another thread.

 

But let me just say, even though I've slept with married people, I've never wanted to steal them for myself. Anyway, I only did it twice, and both times the guy initiated it and I never expressed interest before. But I do know that it's hurtful, so I don't anymore. I still don't get it though.

 

I think if you have a very noticeable personal style, you need to have the type of personality to accept that people might look at you. If you don't have that type of personality, then maybe it's time to reassess your style, because at that point it's just hindering you socially. It's kind of like the guy who walks around with a green mohawk and then gets outraged that people are staring. It doesn't make sense.

 

Ha, you're onto something bulletproof. I have considered taking on a new nondescript persona. It would feel really weird, but actually, on times when I've for some reason had to dress really drab and ugly, I've found it kind of empowering. I like the way I dress, and it's the only thing I'm used to or feel comfortable in. But when it comes to going out alone, I think it might be interesting to dress up in the costume of someone I'm not, just as a kind of mental game. There's something to be said for not showing your personality through your dress. It does give you a kind of invisibility, even if it does also invite misunderstanding. And it's true that sometimes daggy people are more approachable than people who look cool.

[buckdawg]

i know where you're coming from but i actually think there's beauty in the sacrifice one makes to commit to a monogamous relationship.

[Lucy_lou]

forgive my conceitedness, but deep down I'm proud of my lack of monogamous tendencies. I think it makes me more enlightened. I also think people pick up on it and perhaps this is why I've never been in a serious relationship, and possibly never will until I meet people more like me. It's hard. I'm a total minority. The emotional anarchist you might say.

 

Even as a kid, I couldn't handle people holding my hand. I hate to feel owned.

 

When I really like someone, I often daydream about the kind of relationship we could have together. But it generally arrives at the scenario in which I would 'cheat on them' and they would be forced to deal with my lack of monogamy.

 

so yeah that's me

 

So basically, in the last bunch of replies I've been told to change who I am. To stop dressing in a way that reflects how I feel inside, and to stop disrespecting people's monogamous relationships, even though I don't understand them. Valid suggestions, but it feels like they're going to the core of who I am, and I'm not sure that I want to change who I am. I'd rather work hard, make money and move to a place where people are more like me. But right now in this small town, it's lonely.

 

Another question, if someone is committed and secure in their monogamous relationship, then why should it be a problem for a guy (or girl for that matter) to have me hanging around and liking them, both as a friend and sexually. It's still positive attention. Why is it seen as a threat if we both know that nothing's going to come of it? And if there is a risk that something's going to come of it, then doesnt' that prove that monogamy is unnatural?

[buckdawg]

i hope you don't think i was judging you, just simply giving you my perspective. this world is full of 6 billion people who have 6 billion different sets of ideals and values.

 

forgive me but you seem a bit defensive, no?

[JadedStar]

Re read your last two replies lucy and that should better tell you why you lack friends.

 

I would not keep a girlfriend who has this mentality (these are your own words):

 

forgive my conceitedness, but deep down I'm proud of my lack of monogamous tendencies.

 

I'm more tragically innocent in my inability to understand monogamy.

 

But let me just say, even though I've slept with married people, I've never wanted to steal them for myself

 

Another question, if someone is committed and secure in their monogamous relationship, then why should it be a problem for a guy (or girl for that matter) to have me hanging around and liking them, both as a friend and sexually

 

ARe you serious? the answer to this isn't self explanatory to you? And what do you mean why wouldn't they want to hang around with you "sxually"????

 

I think you need to totally give up this thing you have with being anti monogamy IF you truly want to build up your friend pool. For so long as you adhere to these notions as least realize that very very few women will want a thing to do with you and most men won't want to either for fear you will wreck their relationship.

 

I am sure the guys who want to cheat will be more than happy to befriend you.

[bulletproof]

I certainly don't advocate changing who you are as a person. I just think that if you don't like who you are, which it doesn't sound like you do, then that's a problem. The clothes in and of themselves don't matter; what matters is whether you can handle what goes with wearing the clothes.

 

Re: the monogamy issue... I agree. I don't think humans are monogamous by nature, as very few animals are. The amount of cheating and the divorce rate should attest to that as well. The origin of marriage was not for love, it was for sharing resources, joining families, and reproducing the species. I also agree that people should be able to have any feelings they want for any person they want, provided they respect the other person's feelings as well.

 

The fact is, we all see people we wouldn't mind sleeping with. We should all be a little more honest about it.

 

I don't think your stance on monogamy is affecting your friend situation. I think social anxiety is, though.

[Lucy_lou]

Thanks for your no holds barred reply, Jaded. I often think your posts around here are the wisest, so I'll refrain from yelling at you. And I don't get a chance to fully articulate my views on monogamy with many people, so if they are truly offensive, the I think it is very useful for me to get some feedback here, so I can assess the extent to which I show my views to people out there in the world. So thanks Jaded, and everyone.

 

My attitude, and my perspective posted above is consciously challenging the status quo, so I'm not surprised to get responses like yours. To ask me to chane my thinking IS to ask me to change who I am and conform. I'd rather have no friends than change who I am. Doesn't stop me posting on here and expressing my sadness that it has to be this way. On occasion I have met people who share my views on monogamy, but they're few and far between. I think cheating is bad too. I'm an honest person and I am not ok with deceit. But some people are in open relationships, and in that case it's ok in my view.

 

And just another fun fact while I have your attention, I consider myself quite feminist and pro girl. And so I value my female friends more than guy friends. It is extremely important to me that I build comradery with the ladies. It might sound odd saying this after the other things I said above. And my misdemeanours with married boys have all been where I've known the guy well beforehand, and hardley known the girlfriend at all.

 

I know my words are non conventional, but to me the wrongness of them is not self explanatory in any meaningful way.

 

As for your first comment, I don't want to be anyone's girlfriend. I'm not interested in that kind of relationship. I just want friends.

 

I'm someone who perhaps is more sexual, I put out more sexual energy than a lot of people. I think this repells people, but it's also part of who I am, and my sexual energy is part of my lust for life and joy for being alive so I don't want to kill it. I spend large ammounts of time alone BECAUSE I know that the way I am isn't very conduceive for making friends. Occasionally I'll meet someone with a powerful personality which can match mine. But most people find you easier to be around if you're totally asexual. One of the few people who does like me, is totally dorky and asexual. A lot of poeple find him easy to get along with because he doesn't emit even an ounce of sexuality. Interesting, huh?

[JadedStar]

Well I figured you wouldn't be here asking if you didn't want some meaningful replies so I thought replying straight from the hip would be best. Plus I can tell that you are a direct person so I thought you might appreciate no beating around the bush. LOL

 

Here is the thing - you are correct. People probably DO have a hard time with your sexual nature. I can almost guarantee you that this might be what is holding you back from having a wide array of friends. It intimidates women and many men will back off and only those who have sexual thoughts on their mind will probably befriend you. Others won't as they will be afraid that it will come between them and their g/fs and they won't want to be in "hot water" with their girls so to speak.

 

I would never ask anyone to change who they are or to conform. However,

it is what it is and you have to figure out how to get around it because your situation is obviously making you unhappy. I don't think we should change to suit anybody, but your dilemma will be how do you find friends who accept you, for you? I would suggest finding friends in places where folks are more liberal. Where those places would be I am not entirely sure, but i think your key is going to be in finding very liberal thinking people to hang out with.

 

I am not sure I agree with you tho in that people want asexual friends. I have never found that to be true, but I do find it to be true that many women and even some men will be uncomfortable around a woman who is highly sexual for many reasons. Insecurities, or lack of compatibility perhaps.

 

This is a stretch but maybe you could find friends in gay bars since you said you are bi, people there tend to be more open minded and more likely to accept you. There are a lot of great people who are gay and/or bisexual and they are used to society putting up prejudices so they are less likely to be prejudiced against others.