Help! Need your urgent feedback/advice!

[CrapAtNC]

Hi, all.

 

I haven't posted here in a while, so a quick recap:

 

Me: 39, English; her: 31, Asian

 

Together 9 months, but broke up several times because I couldn't understand why she seemed to not be into me - got back after it was clear she was (she's shy and very scared of getting hurt). But then she dumped me in Feb after having her heart constantly broken. We were still close for a while, even while she was with a rebound, up until June or July. I was very hurt by the rebound thing, as there were pics on the Internet of her being very affectionate to him very quickly, when she wasn't like that with me. We both believe that we are almost perfect for each other: she if it weren't for the wall around her heart, and me if it weren't for the way I used to react to that.

 

I had therapy, read some great books, and now understand her so much better. She works with me now, very closely (only three in the organization, her office is my living room, she wakes me in the morning by walking into my room, and she uses my shower, etc. We spend a lot of time each day working closely together). It's been great, as I have changed, and so has she. We laugh a lot, love our work, and enjoy each other's company. She stayed over once (on the sofa), and I even stayed at hers (at the foot of her bed She trusts me now (leaves her phone lying around after she once caught me looking at her messages, and she lets me massage her, in all but the very most intimate places). Her cats now live with me, and her dog stays sometimes too. I am happy, and so is she. We're getting on far better than we ever have before, and I'm loving that.

 

I should add that her mother was killed in an accident a month ago, rest her soul. The ex was travelling before starting work with us, and had to cut short the trip. I knew she was at least visiting the rebound (he lives far away), and I was cool with it, even looking after the cats while she went, as I wanted to rebuild our friendhship because our relationship had really started to disintegrate. This terrible incident may have softened her a bit, as she seems so much easier to get along with, but she is also very upset about it still. I'm doing all I can (maybe too much) to help her feel better.

 

Everything has been great, but there was an incident tonight and I would very much appreciate your advice on what I should do now. Her phone was beside me while we were at a dinner. A message arrived, and as I picked the phone up to give to her, I saw it was from the rebound guy. I was deeply hurt by her relationship with him, and my heart started racing when I saw the name. I said I thought she didn't see him any more, and she said that they were still friends. It's very possible that she visited him on that trip just as a friend. It's also possible that maybe she didn't. But it's not my business.

 

She started texting him back, and I saw that she was asking how he would arrive and something about meeting later. I went cold. I shouldn't have looked. I went quiet, didn't want to talk to her, and started thinking where he might stay and wondering if the extra toothbrush in her bathroom might provide a clue. I left for my evening job. I had to call her to remind her to do an errand on her way home, and I told her I was disappointed that she had mislead me about not seeing anyone (I had asked her recently, as we are getting fairly close again, and she said no). I wasn't rude, or angry, or swearing. She explained that he wasn't staying with her, he was just a friend, he was visiting his friends, and that he would stay with them. I mentioned that I was pretty sure she stayed with him recently. She then started getting angry and saying (rightly) that she doesn't have to explain anything to me and then put the phone down.

 

Now I'm thinking I may be out of line, that I should not have said anything, and that I may have just damaged our relationship (I want to get back with this woman - I love her to bits and believe she is the one for me). But I'm also thinking that maybe I'm right, and considering we have been getting quite close, and she has been accepting gifts and favours from me, she should be more honest with me if she is seeing someone else.

 

What do you think? And, more importantly, what do you think I should do now? I'm thinking of sending a message saying that, if I was wrong, then I sincerely apologise, and that it is indeed none of my business and she has no need to explain to me. Is that a good idea? Should I also ask her to be honest with me? Or should I let her know that I trust her (I do, really, but I'm a little paranoid about this guy - it was a very painful time for me when she went off with him). Or should I do nothing and let her come to me? I want to win her back, but I also don't want to be taken for a fool or set up to be hurt again (though it would be my own fault if I was, I guess).

 

It's nearly midnight here, so if I'm going to say something, I need to do it soon.

 

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated, and I'm happy to take any criticism. I want to get back with her, but I'm also really enjoying our blossoming friendship, and I really don't want to spoil that.

 

Thanks, all!

[Loki71]

As you are not a couple she is correct. You have no right to snoop. Take it from me I have had trust issues with my wife and was snooping all the time and it got me no where but more pain. If you want to rebuild the releationship then you need to trust her as she is trying to trust you (which you might have just set back). Yes say your sorry and tell her you know you were wrong but talk it out do not get upset or angry as it will do no good. And no more snooping the cost is not always worth it.

[happygolucky]

I want to see if you do really trust her. I mean truly. I could be wrong but what does your gut say... because your gut is usually right. Sometime we car about sooo much that we silence our own voice

[CrapAtNC]

Thanks for the replies so far.

 

Do I really trust her? I do. There was one trust issue only: she had me look after her cats while she went on a "business" trip, which turned out to include a stopover with the rebound guy. But that's the only issue really. She's very secretive because she's a very private person. In the past, I have got paranoid but prevented myself from reacting, only to discover that indeed she had been truthful and that I was being too negative.

 

I trust her. I've really had little reason not to. I trust her more than I trust my gut feeling, let's put it that way.

[love4life]

happy is right. Your gut reaction says it all. I ignored that in my last relationship for too long and he ended up breaking my heart...

[DN]

I think you are in limbo with this relationship - what is in it for you?

 

Unless there is a chance of getting back together in a proper relationship I would make arrangements as soon as possible to sever the business relationship as well as the personal relationship - it is not helping you at all. You need to move on and the current arrangements are impeding that.

[servedcold]

So her job is in your house? More detail needed...

 

My gut so far is that she is stringing you along throwing out crumbs and fully involved with the other guy while you wait around. She can't do this if you don't let her...

[CrapAtNC]

I run an organization and I live above it. The office is out of action for a while, so she uses my living room or dining room for now.

 

Well, let's not sever all ties just yet. As I said, we've been getting on great. Really great. Very happy. Imagine if the other guy had posted - would you be telling him that she's obviously still in love with me and he should forget her and leave her to me?

 

I have no way of knowing if she's being honest other than doing something dishonest myself, by spying on her in some way. But I worked out she probably last saw him a month ago, and that's exactly what she said tonight, so I believe she's telling the truth. He's really not her type, and I really am (she has told me so herself and also her friends). For one, he drinks like a college student, and she is very much against that, as that's how her mother died. We share the same dreams, sense of humour, loves, etc. I'm in a good position here to win her back, and I'm not prepared to throw that away because she might be lying. I'll trust her until I have reason not to.

 

I already sent a text saying that if I'm wrong, I apologise, and that it is none of my business (which it isn't). So how should I behave from here? As before? But perhaps with a little less giving and availability? It's all me making effort and her lapping it up right now, as we all would. Is it time for me to cool off and pull back a bit? Would that be the best policy? And not mention this incident, and stop asking her her plans for the evening from now on?

[servedcold]

If the other guy came on here and said crapatnc has a toothbrush in her house, that would be all I'd need to hear...

 

It matters not one whit whether they are the right "type" for each other, when people are infatuated this is the last thing that matters. Not saying there's something going on, but it looks fishy.

 

Working with her is probably a bad place for you to be, as she can get emotional support from you whenever she wants while pursuing romance with someone else. It is an extremely common theme here. You sound like you have your eyes open, and are thinking clearly, though. Best wishes.

[Jeffster]

Hi Servedcold,

 

You are indeed in a tight spot here and I'll give you my 2 cents...

 

I really think that you need to decide once and for all If you want her as a friend or a lover... and I think you already know the answer to that one.

 

If you can stay with her and work with her and truly act like and be her friend, that's one thing. But, if you want more from this than she's willing to give you, then you are acting like a chump and you need to re-think your entire relationship with her.

 

I'm not trying to sound negative or put you down, but that's simply my opinion.

 

I tryly wish you and her the best,

 

Jeff

[CrapAtNC]

All opinions are much appreciated - really!

 

I do want more from her, and maybe I am being a chump. I feel I have worked my way back into her heart recently, but how far I don't know. She is relaxed around me, and we are doing more fun things together, though gets 'cold feet' at times when friendly dates seem to be heading in a more romantic direction. That may be her not wanting to be with me, or it may be her uncertainty, or it may be her avoiding being hurt by me again.

 

I do have to rethink my relationship with her - you're right. I'm just not sure how to go about it. A good friend has told me I should just back off a little right now and give her the space to think things through herself, and to show her true feelings for me (instead of just reacting to my lead all the time). I have already accepted that we may never be together again, and I can handle that. I can also handle her having a new boyfriend - of course, it will still cause some pangs of anxiety or jealousy or stress, but apart from me merely telling her that I was disappointed about being mislead, nothing bad has happened. No destructive behaviour; no sleepless nights (I slept fine last night); nothing.

 

Really appreciate all your feedback - it's an uncertain time for me, and I'm grateful for the advice and reality check.

[CrapAtNC]

Well, we sorted out that little argument very quickly and very easily, and I believed everything she said about this guy just being a friend now and that, although he was visiting from out of town, he'd be staying with his friends.

 

We had a lovely and very fun few days at work. I, being the over-zealous idiot that I am, gave her a lift home last night and to pick up her dog, who I was to look after while she went abroad for a few days. It was a great night. She's very sharing these days. I had asked her a couple of hours previous if she could ever love me again, as we'd been getting along so well, and she didn't say no, and looked very happy that I'd asked.

 

I used the bathroom at her house. The tissues ran out, so I opened the bin to throw the empty packet in ... and saw the instructions from a box of condoms, which must have been put there a few days previous, when the rebound "friend" was "staying at his friend's house".

 

It was a horrible feeling, to see that, but not as bad as I thought it would be. The overwhelming emotion that hit me wasn't jealousy, but disgust that she had lied to me again, even though I had told her I was cool with her having someone else, but please don't lie to me any more, as lies kill relationships, including friendships.

 

I walked out of the bathroom, showed her what I'd found, and left. It was 2.30 am, and she was to leave for the airport at 5 for her trip. I left the dog with her. Then I drove home and got her cats, and gave them back to her at about 3.30. I told her that there are consequences to lying, to tricking one's friends, to manipulating people, and left her to it. I'm the only one who looks after her pets when she goes away, and she had to cancel the trip and lose the $600 she had paid for the tickets.

 

I don't feel bad. I feel good. I am not going to be walked over any more, or lied to, or cheated. It's only now I can truly say that I deserve better than that. She's not the one for me. The woman for me is honest, and loving, and faithful, loving, and happy. I'm moving on.

 

Thanks for all the advice. You naysayers apologized for suggesting this scenario, but you were right to do so. I hope I can learn from this and show a little more dignity when women try to string me along again. I won't stand for it any more.

 

I slept well. It's a beautiful day here. And I'm going out tonight knowing that one door has closed ... you know the rest.

 

Peace, all.

[pretty_mittens]

First of all, she probably was a little ticked that you grilled her about the other guy... toothbrush and all. And to be honest, she was probably offended as you basically insinuated she was sleeping around...that coming from a friend... a very close friend from your description...as well as her employer.

 

With all due respect, you come off as a very insecure person. Instead of taking a risk and pursuing this woman with love and respect... you insinuate she is not acting like a lady communicating with someone she once had a relationship with. Over analyzing every detail of her life, feeling sorry for her and judging her.

 

What do you want? Figure it out and take a risk. Or don't and eventually look like an obsessive weirdo.

[CrapAtNC]

Well, I appreciate your honesty.

 

Yes, I am insecure, especially about this relationship. I probably wouldn't be on this forum if I wasn't.

 

In response: I never grilled her. I told her I accepted if she had someone, but we were clearly getting closer - more than a close friend or employer - and I just asked her to be honest. I never mentioned the toothbrush to her - just to you guys.

 

The respect bit I'll take on board. I had no idea it came accross like that. I feel I have been pursuing her with love and respect. I've been very supportive of her, even with this other guy in tow. It's not about her acting like a lady; it's about her not being honest with me. That's been a big problem throughout our relationship. She finds it difficult to be honest and open.

 

Yes, I feel sorry for her. If you could see how unhappy she is because of the way she pushes people away, created and lives by lies, and refuses to open her heart, you would feel sorry for her too. But I don't pity her. It's not my job. She has had relationship problems her whole life. She's still in love with a guy she broke up with three years ago, and sleeps with his sweater, even when we were together. She cheated on this new guy with me. She is now moving closer to me again while giving me the impression there is no one else, when clearly there is. Not acting like a lady? No. Not respecting me or him? Yes.

 

What do I want? Nothing now. I wanted her back, and I did take a risk. I refused to listen to those who warned me I was being fooled, all in the name of love - true, genuine love. I wanted to be with this woman forever.

 

An obsessive weirdo? I saw one text message. I don't snoop, even though she leaves her laptop open and her cell phone with me while she's somewhere else. I saw the condom instructions by accident.

 

But I take on board what you're saying, especially if others agree. If this is my problem, then I need to deal with it.

 

Did I overreact on seeing the condom paper? I wonder what others would have done. No angry words. No insults. I just decided right then and there that I would no longer be fooled by this woman while I was being so supportive. I guess I was jealous. I must have been. But I really am more disappointed that she would make me feel bad for suggesting she was still seeing the same guy, when she really was.

[DN]

I think you handled it well - but you neglected to say what her reaction was when you told her what you had found and what you were going to do.

[CrapAtNC]

When I showed her the condom instructions, she just said "What?". I told her I couldn't believe she had lied to me again, and I walked out. As I left, she just said, "What about the dog?!" I told her the other guy could help her.

 

When I came back with the cats, it was a little more heated, as I told her I wasn't going to help her any more because she had kept lying to me, and I was clearly angry, but not abusive. I mentioned something about her f-ing someone else, and she stuck her head in the window and asked what business of mine it was who she f-ed.

 

Since then, it's been quite civil, I guess because I am not allowing myself to invest any more emotion in this, and she seems very sad and upset. I texted asking when she would come back to work, and she ended her reply with 'Thks'. Her friend, who I used to chat with on MSN a lot but which stopped because the ex hated us discussing her (rightly, so, I have to say) suddenly appeared again after a 4-month disappearance, asking why I hadn't taken the dog. The ex had told her I got angry after finding something in the bin, and the friend was asking for details, which I refused to give. It came out in the conversation that she had no idea my ex was still seeing her rebound guy, but other than that I maintained my ex's privacy.

 

She has written to our only other colleague, though, painting a bad picture of me as someone who got angry during an argument with her and gave all her animals back - which is correct, of course, but once again I'm unable to explain why. I think I have reason enough. It was clear from the start that we would be great friends if she could just stop tricking me - it's not a nice way to maintain any kind of relationship. I'll just tell the coworker that I have my reasons, that she should ask the ex for the details, and that it shouldn't affect our working relationship.

 

I left a message for her today (she's apparently on the plane now, just one day late, which I'm glad about). I just said that if she wants to maintain the privacy that she guards so carefully that she should stop giving a one-sided account that I would have to give more details to defend myself. I said it in a calm, nice way. I also said that, now that we have no other connections or relationship, we should be able to enjoy a healthy working relationship.

 

I'm not sure how I feel right now. Really wanting to find someone new, soon - someone who suits me as well as she did in many areas, but someone more relaxed, more open and honest, and more affectionate. I have realised now that this ex is not the one for me. It's a sad realisation, but I think it means we can both move on more happily now. Maybe we'll be friends in the future, but for now I really must forget about her as best I can and open the door to others.

 

The sad thing is that we have been getting along far better than ever before, and we were both very relaxed and happy in each other's company, and we were getting more and more affectionate. If it weren't for the incident, I think we had a chance, as she opens up and relaxes more when I'm relaxed about the relationship. In hindsight, she's done nothing wrong other than to lie to me, though that is a huge relationship killer, as what is a relationship without trust? She has a right to see who she wants, as do I. I had asked her to think about getting together apparently after this guy stayed over, and just hours before the incident. It was terrible timing. I wonder where we'd be now if I simply hadn't found out.

 

Still, we had lost one of the very foundations of a relationship, and I'm sure her lies would have continued as they would have worked for her for a while. No regrets. Better to find out now than later. Just a little sad, but looking forward to a less complicated future.

 

Sorry for rambling ...

[CrapAtNC]

OK, I really need help now ...

 

I'm really bothered by this. One poster has mentioned that I'm acting insecure, obssessive, a weirdo. The ex's friend at first blamed me for overreacting. And my ex is telling my colleague that she is worried that she can't work with me and my 'moods'.

 

I have to tell you, this scares me. Is it me? Am I really the cause of all this? Am I wrong for thinking that the ex needs to wake up and realise that she is at least half to blame for many of our arguments and upsets? Or is it my own fault, for being so madly in love with someone whose character brings out the best and worst in me?

 

I'm heartbroken, to be honest, and I'm really scared because maybe I am making these things happen, or allowing or encouraging them to happen. Am I doomed to have these upsets for the rest of my life? I'm 39. I have no money. I work 100 hours a week on my organization, rescuing animals in need, and also with my evening job, which pays the bills. My house is a mess. And now my life is a mess. I have no free time to relax or meet new people. I think I'm in love with someone who I shouldn't be in love with ... or should I? Is it my own mind that causes these problems?

 

I'm pretty depressed right now, I have to tell you. I'm worried for my future. Is this it? Am I stuck in this forever? She seemed like the perfect one for me, especially recently, and I was so happy that we had rekindled some kind of relationship, and now it's destroyed. Was it my fault? Am I doing this to myself.

 

Life sucks. I yearn for love and affection, yet I'm drawn to someone who can't give them to me. Seriously, what is out there for me? I'm * * * *ed. I don't want these upsets any more. I don't want these disappointments, these heartbreaks. What the hell am I doing wrong? Why even bother with it all?

[JadedStar]

I think you are in limbo with this relationship - what is in it for you?

 

Unless there is a chance of getting back together in a proper relationship I would make arrangements as soon as possible to sever the business relationship as well as the personal relationship - it is not helping you at all. You need to move on and the current arrangements are impeding that.

 

 

I totally conqur with DN.

 

Just redflags all over the place. I would discontinue the relationship - friendship and business - and if later on she wants to pursue something a little more to your liking then revisit.

 

You can't be a casual friend to someone you have feelings for. You just can't.

 

And BTW it wouldn't sit well with me those interactions with mr rebound guy either.

[JadedStar]

I have to tell you, this scares me. Is it me? Am I really the cause of all this? Am I wrong for thinking that the ex needs to wake up and realise that she is at least half to blame for many of our arguments and upsets? Or is it my own fault, for being so madly in love with someone whose character brings out the best and worst in me?

 

 

From what i have read, NO, it is not you, and you acted very prudently and actually much stronger than most would have in this situation.

 

Don't let her or anyone on this forum make you feel you were in the wrong or did the wrong thing. She lied to you, I believe that wholly. The finding the condom instructinos and then her asking "why do you care who i F**K"....dead giveaway.

 

Don't let guilt eat away at you. You acted the way a person who respects himself should act in this scenario.

 

just my take for what it is worth.

[CrapAtNC]

I've decided to do what others suggested in another thread, about us working together, and doing the '180'. That is, kind of like all you'd be like during NC, but with LC for work. I can do it because I don't value her any more.

 

Thanks for the responses - I needed to read those.

 

She texted me from abroad. Just said how angry she was that I had gone digging in her garbage (I didn't - I could have dug in her phoneand email and computer, but didn't - I found the instructions looking at me when I lifted the lid off the bin) and that I'd sent a work email out saying she had 'finally' taken back her cats - she missed the humour, thinking it was a rude comment.

 

I'll not be respnding any more (did to that one). I'm taking a week's holiday with my dogs and contemplating the situation. I'll decide if now is a good time to go travelling or not.

 

Anyway, thanks for listening ... this is my outlet.

[CrapAtNC]

Well, here's my update:

 

As usual, when she senses she's losing me, she gets back in touch, and always about an animal in distress, as she knows then I'll have to respond. This time it was that her own dog was sick, so she texted me from abroad to help her find a vet, which I did, because that's what I do. (The dog never did go, I later found out.)

 

She came back to work today. She made small talk, as did I; I'm actually very upbeat, but she is very down - it was her mother's funeral the day before.

 

I've decided to quit my job and go travelling, doing animal-welfare work in some beautiful place (Guatemala is looking good right now). I'm serious about this. Work has been stressful for me, and I need to take a big step out of the situation right now, for my health and sanity. I have draughted up the letter and am just getting it translated, so that all those in my organization will understand what's going on. She mentioned this morning that she may not be able to work with me now, so I told her I was leaving. She asked how long. I said, "I'm leaving". She looked shocked and asked again how long. I told her I probably won't be coming back (I've beenn living in this country for 9 years now). She looked upset, and tears were in her eyes. She said she's probably leave before I did, but couldn't explain why.

 

We did some work together, and on the way back to the office, she started to argue with me, telling me that I was wrong, that I cost her a lot of money. I tried to keep the conversatio work related. She denied seeing the rebound guy, despite the moved toothbrush and condom instructions. I wanted to believe her. Maybe the condoms were for me? (I would have slept there that night). Maybe they were for her trip? But it didn't fit with her reaction, nor the toothbrush. I told her that if she could convince me I was wrong, I would apologise, reimburse her for her losses, and, if she wanted, become close friends again. She said she didn't want to talk about it any more.

 

But get this: as p-ed off as she was about me returning the animals and her missing her flight, she is covering my late shift this evening so that I can go out of town, where I am right now! It means leaving something very important to her and spending more than two hours of her time in the midle of the night doing some dirty and difficult work ... so that I can enjoy some time away! I'm gobsmacked. I've told her my phone will be off, so she can't cancel on me without the animals in our shelter suffering. But she is doing it - bless her! Would you? If I were wrong? If I were right?

 

Anyway, that's where it stands. I've completely cooled our non-work relationship/friendship, and she can tell. It's not difficult; she lied to me, fooling me into I don't know what. We were so close before that. I won't go back again unless she begs and completely changes: demonstrates that she is no longer hung up on the previous ex and no longer lying (I've since realised many more lies that she told, most for no reason at all that I can see).

 

I'm looking forward to getting away sooooo much, and planning it is putting a smile on my face and a spring in my stride. Stepping down from leading the organization is also a great weight off my shoulders. And I'm flirting with every pretty woman I meet ...

 

Thanks for reading.