Cure of Ars

You are right in the that we are not able to earn heaven. No amount of work I do can equal heaven. So there is no way to deserve heaven. If I were to try to meet God's standards without his grace there would be no doubt that I would fail. But once I receive God's grace and become a child of God then my actions can have merit. Heaven is by grace alone. It is an unearned inheritance in the family of God. But if I do not work in the family of God by the Graces that God has given me then it is possible to forfeit the inheritance of heaven. By God's grace we can and before we can enter heaven we have to be made clean and perfect because "nothing unclean will enter" (Rev 21:26) Santification is a process. I agree except we have to participate in God's grace. We have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. (Phil 2:12-13) It's both, First we receive God's own life through grace and then we are able to do Gods work and merit. This is why Romans also talks about rewards; God, who will repay everyone according to his works: eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness. (Rom 2:5-8) God has done: by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for the sake of sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, so that the righteous decree of the law might be fulfilled in us, who live not according to the flesh but according to the spirit. (Rom 8:3-4) Your right, but we still need to participate in his grace.

You are a brother in Christ but you are mistaken. The Bible does not teach that we should not try to live up to his standards. The Bible teaches the opposite. Guilt like physical pain has its purpose. It tells us when somthing is not right and when we should change our behavior. I am a social worker and work with some people that never feel guilty even when they hurt people. These type of people have antisocial personalities. I'll keep my guilt just as long as it's in touch with reality.

Well kind of. There is no such thing as safe sex. Making love is very powerful. Sex can kill and it can also bring life. But it is never really safe. There are always consequences. Something as powerful as sex needs a life long commitment for it to be loving and the power contained in a healthy way. In a way it is kind like fire. Fire can give us heat, cook our food, give us light but it also can burn our houses down and kill. If you set your living room on fire there is going to be problems. But if you light the fire in the fire place then there is no problem. The power of making love needs to be in the context of a marriage to contain its power in a healthy way. Another point. Biologically we have a universal language built into us. If you go to China and they smile at you, you know what they mean. If you go to Africa and they frown at you, you know what they mean. Same goes with sex. Sex has meaning. It says to someone that I am willing to make a commitment to you. I am willing to allow the possibility that our love will be in-fleshed and become a person. I am willing to lay down my life for you for the life of our children. It says, "I love you". But if you say anything less than what it means then you are lying with your body. With to many lies then sex becomes a lie. Then when you really want to say "I love you" with sex it wont be able to because you distorted the truth with lies. Just like if I went up to you and smiled and then punched you. The next time someone smiles at you its going to mean something different, like duck. So unless your willing to say with your body, "I am committed to you for the rest of my life in marriage then don't say it with your body because it's a lie. I'm not telling you this stuff because I'm a stick in the mud. I'm telling you this because it's the truth and I want you to have a healthy marriage and a healthy family. Making love is a sacred act and it is worth waiting for. Think about what I said and pray about your situation. God bless

I didn't quote the Bible. I find it funny that your preaching at me to not preach.

If you really love your girl and if you really are a man then you would wait until you are married.

And this is COMPLETELY fine to me. They place ultimate value on these things. But I don't. when I see sunsets I see the scattering of blue wavelengths out of sunlight via Rayleigh scattering. When I read good books and watch good movies, I too enjoy them, but I also know that these feelings are products of psychological connections that I make with the movie. When I accomplish something great I realize the joy is derived from my ego and a psychological fact about male autonomy. When I love someone it?s due to serotonin, endorphin, dopamine, and many other chemicals. So like Kierkegaard I need something "I can live and die for". And there is nothing in this world that I can live and die for. In the end we are just quarks, leptons, and messenger particles--that's it. I PERSONALLY need something more than that. But I don't expect an athiest to by this reasoning. (I'd like to think that she would be disturbed by this reduction to just particles, but I respect someone that places values in things like dopamine levels.) But heres a neat little catch. Why would it even matter if I believe in God or not. Some athiests are almost as bad as fundamentalist Christians. We are just quarks, leptons,and force carriers--that's it. So what if I was wrong about god. People seem to think that truth is the ultimate thing out there. Because if I'm wrong. It really didn't matter if I believed in God or not. (This is not Pascal's wager.) Why Thieists shouldn't get on the athiests The problem will This is one of the hardest problems in philosophy. There isn't any free will really. Who you are is constrained by: You're parents, genetics and external factors. Why do you think blacks are more likely to go to jail? Why do you think those who are bipolar are more likely to kill themselves? It has nothing to do with free will. Everything thing that has happened to you in the past up until this point. The athiests will be athiests, the theists will be theists only because they saw the world in this special way. Take an athiest and put her in a thiests body from birth. Do you really think that after having all the experiences of a theist that they would actually "choose" to be an atheist. Free will is the hardest thing to defend. The scariest thing is it MAY go deeper than that. Quantum Mechanics perdicts a probabilistic future, it's not all predetermined. But it may very well be that what you do--which is what goes on in your brain--is COMPLETELY DEPENDENT on what happens at the quantum level (or at least physical laws). So what you do is determined by these laws, but not by you. (Sorry I didn't explain that well) But the catch is that. How can God hold an atheist blameworthy for somehting that was out of his control. The black man killed becasue he grew up in such a horrible environment. The guy killed himself because he was bipolar. The And the atheist didn't believe in God because he had no choice. Everything in his past told him that this was the right thing to believe in. How could God hold someone like that guilty? He was only believing in what he thought was true. Humans make mistakes. But why would he deserve to go to Hell? He didn't do anything wrong. Do you agree with this statement and if not where is it wrong. If my mental processes are determined wholly by the motions of atoms in my brain, I have no reason to suppose that my beliefs are true...and hence I have no reason for supposing my brain to be composed of atoms." (Possible Worlds, p. 209)

Here's an analogy. Sex is kind of like duck tape. Sex is meant to unite a man and a woman, in love, to make a family for children. Just like tape is meant to stick things together. If you take your duck tape and stick it to a lot of different objects before you stick it to the thing that you want it to stick to for good, it is not going to stick very well. If you fold the duck tape over and stick it to itself, it's not going to be as sticky. Same thing happens with sex. If sex is used for anything less than for love, then it will weaken it's expression as love. Another point. Biologically we have a universal language built into us. If you go to China and they smile at you, you know what they mean. If you go to Africa and they frown at you, you know what they mean. Same goes with sex. Sex has meaning. It says to someone that I am willing to make a commitment to you. I am willing to allow the possibility that our love will be in-fleshed and become a person. I am willing to lay down my life for you for the life of our children. It says, "I love you". But if you say anything less than what it means then you are lying with your body. With to many lies then sex becomes a lie. Then when you really want to say "I love you" with sex it wont be able to because you distorted the truth with lies. Just like if I went up to you and smiled and then punched you. The next time someone smiles at you its going to mean something different, like duck. Sex is a sacred act. It is the act that brings the gift of life into this world. We should treat it as if it is sacred. Not cheapen it. Just because people do not agree does not mean that there is not truth. I hope you at least consider what I am saying. I want you to have a healthy attachment to your loved one and a healthy and strong family. God bless

No offense taken. I could flush out what I said in the proceeding post but I would just be restating what I said in a different way. So I'll just leave it alone. It was good talking to you. 'The truth will make you free' (John 8:32). God bless

Let me ask you a question. There are two people. The first is in a strange country in a busy city and the street is full of cars. He is trying to drive somewhere but there are no rules or regulations on how to drive. Everyone is just trying to get where they want to go without following any set rules. Another person is in the U.S. in a busy city and the street is full of cars but everyone is following the law. Who is freer to get to where he wants to go? Here are some quotes to show my point. "Art consists of limitation. The most beautiful part of every picture is the frame. " ~G.K. Chesterton "Art, like morality, consists in drawing the line somewhere." ~G.K. Chesterton "If you draw a giraffe, you must draw him with a long neck. If, in your bold creative way, you hold yourself free to draw a giraffe with a short neck, you will really find that you are not free to draw a giraffe." -- G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy Speak for yourself and good luck with that Satan thing.

No joke.

The Catholic Church does not discourage questioning. Dogma's are necessary to any meaningful world view. For example, science has the dogma that the physical universe has order. If you go against this dogma then you are not doing science anymore. In the same way, Catholics have dogmas so that people can know if they are in line with Christ's Church. Boundaries give freedom because they provide safety. I am free to go crazy within the boundaries of my faith without having to worry about falling into a ditch. This is liberating. From my experience, developed countries are less spiritual than poorer countries. From what I see, Americans care more for what type of car they drive than about trying to connection to some transcendent spiritual reality. I think it is a general rule that poorer people are more spiritual. They are more in touch with the reality of dependency on God. I deny this premise. We can dive deeper into this discussion If you like. "Merely having an open mind is nothing; the object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." G.K. Chesterton Children need a wisdom tradition to help them navigate the spiritual life. Giving a child a half-truth is better than giving them no truth. And by not passing on the truth that one finds in life one is neglecting to give a gift that they have found. God bless

Ya, making sure that you don't masturbate in public builds some serious character. I'm being sarcastic. Personally, as a Catholic I'm called to pick up my cross. And this goes further than just when I'm in public. To be free to love, we need to be free from lust. If sex is about me, my stress relief, my pleasure then it is not about love. Real love is not a feeling, it is an act of the will. It is choosing to lay your life down for another, like Christ did for us. Running to masturbation for fantasyland stress relief and avoiding standing up to temptation only makes you weak. When someone is depending on you, and you're really tempted, you're not going to be strong enough to love. We need to at least try to fight the good fight. God bless

Anything that has power for good can also be used for bad. Just because something can be corrupted does not mean that it should not be used. If we could not use things that have been abused in the past for power then we would not be able to use science, government, and family. All these things can be used for evil. But they are not in themselves evil. I agree we should "test everything: retain what is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) My faith does not tell people to listen blindly to lies. I find it funny though that you promote free though but you discourage Catholic thought. I guess you can think what you want just as long as it not Catholic. But I do not call this freedom of thought. The links that you provided suffer mostly from the "Post hoc, ergo propter hoc" fallacy. Just because one event follows another it does not always follow that it was caused by it. We can explore this if you wish. I'm sorry to hear that you lost faith. God bless

Masterbation is hurtful to relationships in this life. Like I said, You cannot give what you do not possess. So, if you do not have self-control, you cannot truly give yourself to another.

Selfishness and masturbation both amount to loving only yourself, which isn't love at all. There are two key purposes of making love: union and procreation (bonding and babies). Masturbation achieves neither, since the center of the sexual act becomes "me" instead of "we." Rather than being in control of sexual desires, masturbation excites lustful thoughts, causes you to expect immediate sexual gratification, and trains you to look to yourself for sexual fulfillment. Think of it this way: Love is a gift of self. You cannot give what you do not possess. So, if you do not have self-control, you cannot truly give yourself to another. Though sexual sins are highly addictive, God's healing grace is stronger. Like any other sin, this one can be overcome. Take courage and keep your eyes on Jesus, who will complete the good work he has begun in you (Phil. 1:6)."

My advice would be to pray to Jesus. He always has your back. Also I would try to focus less on you and try to help other people. If want to talk with people go here link removed God bless

I'm Roman Catholic so I know a little bit about Romance. First A little History Romance comes from the medieval stories told to Princess and wealthy ladies. It combined tales of high adventure, with love, and moral teaching. The values of the day were courage, honor, and fidelity. Stories of heroic knights saving damsels in distress were common. Knights followed the Code of Chivalry while princesses followed the rules of courtly love. Today Romance has been cheapened a lot. Smut novels come to mind. But in a true sense romance is a sign of commitment that you are willing to laying down your own life for the person you love. This mixed with a little bit of this, "practical romance, the combination of something that is strange with something that is secure. We need so to view the world as to combine an idea of wonder and an idea of welcome." GK Chesterton

Does this mean you are a Nazi?

So the only absolute truth is that there are no absolute truths? Do you believe this absolutely? LOL So you can not say that the KKK is wrong? But you can say that I am wrong because I say that the KKK is wrong? How ironic. How are we to stand up against evil when you can not even say that it exists. I don't disagree. The KKK's truth is wrong and should be resisted out of justice. So for you your beliefs are just as valid as the Nazis and the KKK. And I guess those who believe that it is good to abuse their kids are just are right as you are. Your position is basically "might makes right". Whoever is in power gets to make up what is true. A lot of people can get hurt for this viewpoint. It makes it impossible to stand up for what is right. But I guess for you it is all good.

If we all have are own truths on what grounds do you criticize my truth by say the following, "It's a very nearsighted and shallow point of view to have and I'm sorry that you have it?" Your basically saying all truths are equal but then you say that my truth is wrong and not valid. You're not being consistent. Please explain how you are not talking out of both sides of you mouth? You also did not answer my question. I did not ask you how other people saw their own point of view. I asked you if the KKK's truth was just as true as those whose truth is against racism. Please answer I did not say that I was better than anyone. In fact I said the opposite. But I do believe that my faith is true. If I didn't I would not waste my time defending it. But you are saying the same thing to me. That because you see all truths as equal (besides mine) that you are better than me (i.e. not "nearsighted" and "shallow"). It seems to me that you want it both ways. You want all personal beliefs to be true to those who believe it. But on the other hand my truth is wrong. You feel sorry for me. Well I feel sorry for you. I love truth. I try to submit to truth. If the Catholic Church was not true I would leave it. Truth for you on the other hand is a fairy tale except when telling me I am wrong. God bless

Have you actually experienced a Christmas with a family without Christ? I have. Many of them. I can assure you that Christmas with my family is far from boring. Family is what matters at Christmastime for us.. Christ has nothing to do with it. Yep I have. Have you ever been to Christ's--Mass on Christmas?

I agree but are you saying that all ways of life are "equal"? So if I was a member of the KKK this is just as good an option as if I belonged to a group that fought against racism? I am not secular but Catholic. You must be a relativist. I believe that there is absolute truth in this world. Our job is not to find a system that fits us but the other way around because we are not the source of truth. We are to try to conform and submit to the truth. If secular was the closet system to truth then I would be secular. But the truth is that secular society restricts the spiritual life of man and because of this it is oppressive. And this is why I made my post, not to say "We are better than you. We have it and you don't". Any good that I have comes from God's grace and if others were give the graces that I have received they would more than likely be more blessed.

Give me a break man. In that statement you assume that everyone who isn't a devoted Christian has a boring Christmas. The close-minded attitudes of Christians like Cure of Ars is what turns me off to religion in general. You did not give an argument why Christmas without Christ is not boring. Because I make an argument that your apposed to does not automatically make me closed minded. But you haven't even given me a reason to change me mind. To me it's like having a birthday without it being someone's birthday. What is more exciting, celebrating an anniversary with your wife or celebrating nothing but going through the same motions? The second is not celebration at all. Christmas without Christ becomes about consumer culture. It is just something that you're expected to do because Christians are doing it. It becomes about getting stuff because you do not want to be left out. It doesn't take long before it gets boring. But I would like to hear why you think Christmas without Christmas is not boring.

The argument that I gave is not the best argument that there is. I am not Catholic because it makes for a challinging and exciting life but because it is true. This should be the only reason for following a religious system. The argument can be effective though of getting people past secular consumer culture. My argument is not my religion against other religions but my religion against secularism. I would say that any of the major historic religions would be more exciting than secularism. I am also not saying that there are not parts of secularism that are not good.

I'm glad that you are so involved in your religion and beliefs, however, I do have some issues with your post from generalizations. This paragraph in particular bothered me. I was suicidal while following the christian religion, I attended church every Sunday, went to camp every summer, and even worked at the camp(which was a christian camp) for an entire summer, but yet still wanted to kill myself. My point is, even though I was a christian, I still lost hope of things and now I am not a christian and no longer suicidal. The only thing I find that I am depressed about is the loss of my mother, but that is to be expected seeing she only died 11 months ago. I do not believe being a christian or not being a christian affected my depression, I believe it was a chemical imbalance in my brain and the fact that I was a young teenager who was afraid of her own shadow and the future. Then I grew up quite a bit and realized that the future was not so bleak. Basing suicide entirely on a secular society is not true and, to be honest, is really not fair. I know other suicidal christians. And no, this is not because we don't/didn't have a "close relationship with Christ." Because I was saved, I accepted Jesus as my personal savior at the camp I went to, but that alone did not help me in my depression for whatever reason. I would also like to point out that any and all religions give people a sense of hope. That is why we have religions, that is why people believe in such a diversity because not all religions work for every person. You may believe Christianity works for everyone, but the muslim, jew, or buddhist may feel otherwise. And those that do not have any religion may find hope in other aspects of their lives. I don't think believing in a higher power is the only thing that gives you hope, I feel finding a goal and aspiring to achieve it is what really counts in life. It's not when people lose sight of God that they get depressed, it's when they stop dreaming and/or trying to make their lives better. However, all of this is just my opinion. Thank you for sharing your views though, it is an interesting topic. I agree that I have made some generalizations to make a point. But if I did not the post would have been 500 pages long and no one would have read it. We agree that religion gives hope. The main point is that secular society is less exciting in the long run. What religion are you so that I am better able to find common ground when talking to you? I did not make this generalization. I also did not say that Catholics did not get depressed. Great saints have had depression. St. John of the Cross is an example. Check out his work the Dark Night of the Soul to see how Catholic depression can be turned for something good as apposed to the basic secular depression. I did not say that suicide is entirely secular society's fault. Biology also plays a part. I was just stating the fact that secular cultures have a higher suicide rate because secular society is empty of transcendent meaning. As a Catholic pain and depression can be offered up and united to Christ's suffering for the Church and the entire world (Col 1:24-25). In fact most mystics of other faith traditions do the same type of thing. Secular society does not have the power or perspective to give meaning to pain and suffering for a greater good. It is just viewed as something that sucks and if it can't be avoided that death is a legitimate way out. But if achievement, dreams, and goals are the meaning of life and I do not find these things satisfying anymore why not end my life? This is the question that secular society does not have an answer for because they lack something beyond this life and if this world does not satisfy there is no where else to look. If aspiring to achieve is the highest meaning in life then why do 3 world countries have a lower suicide rate than American culture? America is one of the most goal-oriented societies ever in the history of mankind and it also has one of the highest suicide rates ever. How can this be? Also please read this post about the 4 levels of happiness. Your meaning of life answer is only at the level 2. Loving friends and family is a better answer to the meaning of life but this also is not the highest level. link removed