moonbeam111
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Everything posted by moonbeam111
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Good grief! At least you guys take some responsibility for what happened and please stop bashing the guy for being honest. It takes two to tango and it's too late to say "I was blind, or better yet - mommy, a bad guy did it to me!" Jamie, one of the first posts breaking up w/ me he was rubbing my arm with the back of his fingers and then tried to kiss me on the mouth (I turned away). He did say he still wanted to see "where it goes" but I said I didn't know how to go backwards and if so there would be no sex - he said he knew that. So, I never really answered whether I would agree to still see him. He said "this is hard for both of us" it was such a shock.>> Right there he told you that he would like to continue having sex with you if you allow it... being FWB because he "would like to see where it goes" after clearly stating that you have no future with him!!!! He was very consistent. And he did it again! Exactly with the same arguments and the same outcome! Why oh why did you still go to the concert with him? Why oh why did you hug him warmly? Sent nice emails? Stil pining for him after he expressed his view of you as a booty call? For all that mind reading and taming your temper - bravo! Great job! Scout: > For crying out loud! The only reason I started posting in this very thread was that I was amazed at this advice and did not want to see another woman doubting herself and being hurt again! How about pride being Normal expectations? How about pride preventing from getting STD from "blindly" walking in the FWB trap? I am sorry that you had to learn this lesson twice Jamie. Hopefully, "PRIDE" will save you from hurting again... It's okay to have your pride to stick with when "No" actually means "No".
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Oh Jamie, But he will contact to you when he is lonely, his dates did not go well, and when he is horny. Because he saw you taking him back after being so honest about you not being the one, he probably decided that you took him back for sex and a human connection with no responsibilities. He thought that you accepted the rules of the game and firmly placed you in the FWB dimension. That's why he did not feel guilty. That's why he thought that it would be fun to compare notes on dates and discuss your prospective partners. Gross! If he ever contacts you again, just tell him that you are looking for a man who will want to marry you. I would block his email, profile, and would never think about being friends with this man. I am afraid that you are in pain and feel used. Please don't feel this way. You are much stronger and determined now that you were a few weeks ago.
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Jamie, I am sorry you have experienced the pain of the breakup again... I am relieved that you did not stay and wait for him to grow fond of you again... If you have anything to work on (e.g. personal growth, communication, etc..) this time it won't be for the return of a boyfriend, but for yourself only. You are a brave woman with a loving heart. Your expectations are very normal. Mourn your dreams about David and move on. There will be another love journey and warmth, and smiles, and honesty in your future. Hugs (((Jamie)))
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Jamie, if what you said about his personality and communication style is true, then this type of behavior is chronic and persistent. Are you ready to endure the same disappearing act over and over? This is not a healthy behavior. You can try to tolerate this behavior and deny your needs, be sweet and understanding, but you would not be able to dissolve frustration and ignore absolutely normal expectations you have for your partner.
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I guess only David and Jamie can both tell what is going on in their heads and hearts now. I personally would look for patterns. Has he been attentive to her needs and in a regular contact in the past? How does he deal with confrontation, choices, and responsibilities? For example, when he resents his mother, he wouldn't speak to her for weeks. He is probably conflict-avoidant. Again, just a guess. Jamie definitely surprised him by not blaming, confronting, or demanding. She even apologized to him and made him feel loved and appreciated.
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I think that there are two separate issues that we need to address. Scout, you have helped Jamie to stay calm and not panic, I think it's wonderful. You are paying forward for what DN did for you awhile ago. However, this is an intelligent, polite, and well mannered man. He DOES KNOW that it's not right not to call, contact, or email to a woman he has been intimate with. The only reason for this behavior is could be him having second thoughts about reconnecting, being firm in his decision not to get involved with Jamie again, and actually avoiding hurting her by giving her false hopes. In fact, he may feel really bad about it and hide again! Which is exactly what passive-aggressive people do. Another issue that Whoops touched on is HOW MUCH pain and frustration are you capable of tolerating Jamie just to be with David?
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New and newly broken. Any advice?
moonbeam111 replied to bambina maxima's topic in Breaking Up Advice
I think that you are doing great, both of you. I remember around the third week I was going crazy thinking that his sorry * * * * * should CALL ME BY NOW!!! So I could proudly tell him to get a life and leave me alone, thank you very much. Bambina: Piano lessons are great. I signed up for Italian classes so I can interact with new people and booked a trip to Hawaii with my best friend. It was something to look forward to. Have you thought about holidays girls? It's important not to be alone and be busy with PLANNED activities. Dorsay: I respect you so much for being able to focus on his wellbeing. But this is the right time to try to get totally selfish and self-centered, even if this experience is new for you . -
Checking link removed may mean that he is somewhat insecure and wants to make sure that there are plenty of single women out there...just in case... I have done it myself without any intention of dating link removed people. Yes, I did feel insecure in my relationship some time ago. In my opinion, it takes up to one year to find out if the person you are seeing is the one. Why one year? You are past the initial stage of dating, you get to know his friends and family, you spend holidays together and go on vacations together... you have your routine. Then you can decide if he/she is the one for you. Jamie, what if you discuss this one year thing with David? What is his history of dating long-term? As for having sex and feeling uncomfortable, I said that before and I say it again: you have the right to say no to sex even if you were sexual with him a week ago. You don't have to feel guilty or being mainpulative. You are true to your feelings and won't feel used. See if he respects your wishes. Instead of trying to pry into his head, why don't you think of other goals for your dates? Like discovering your and his likes and dislikes, trying new activities, talking about professional and spiritual growth...
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You are so right about point A and B. Again, after everything that happened you are able to think so clearly. Whoever came between you and your husband does not really matter. If you start thinking about her and hating her, you would just displace your anger. She can be half naked in a room with lots of men, but it was your husband who chose to act out on his feelings, approach her, and fall "in love" with her.
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I am sorry. I admire you for keeping calm and civil during "the talk" after you had discovered so much about his infidelity. Do you want separation? What do you really want?
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You may want to rethink the whole idea of dates and suggest something different - for instance, a walk in a park not far from your place... This is a tough case because you guys have an established routine that ends in bed.
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Just end the date in the public place. Go back to your car and say Good Night. No heavy explanation is required. If he initiates "the talk" about not being sexual, you may bring the whole issue of the commitment then. I don't think that you have been foolish or degraded yourself in any way. You have the right to be sexual and you have the right to say no when you don't think it's a good idea.
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New and newly broken. Any advice?
moonbeam111 replied to bambina maxima's topic in Breaking Up Advice
Bambina: I yelled in my car, cried and talked to him aloud when I was alone in my house. Finally I got angry, went out on three dates, planned awesome trips, and reconnected with friends I neglected before. I did a lot of soul searching and thinking about values and life. Treasure your anger. Focus on YOU, not him. Discharging your anger at him would not change anything. Reversing your anger into contsructive changes for YOU will transform your emotions. And yes, it will get better! Start doing something you have never done before when you were with him. Instead of living in the past, experience new excitement and try new activities. Keep dreaming. And keep posting. A lot of support will come your way. -
Batya, I did say for "SOME Jewish men"... Jamie, I met many men who exhibited this very behavior with mixed messages. It is possible to be affectionate one night and distant again next morning. It is possible to talk about the future and break up 5 minutes after the realization of words said sank in. Why don't you go with Scout's advice. What if you have three more dates before you ask about his decision about you not being the one. Just three more dates. Try not to be obssessed about his mixed signals. Take a deep breath and date. If you don't feel that being intimate is what you want, say it directly.
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Absolutely! Ask, but in a non-confrontational way. Like "I wonder if you can help me understand where we are at now in terms of our relationship". And I would not bring up the past and breakup. State the facts: intimacy, plans for Christmas, and dates... what does it mean for him?
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Oh, if they bring you to their family gatherings, holidays, etc... they are looking for an approval from the family. Again, I don't want to generalize, but it seems like a trait for some family-oriented Jewish men.
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That's the point! He can be a nice guy and at the same time he may not be for you! It's not black and white, and it's not good and evil. It is life and it happens all the time when people date and they date some more, and then date others... Why would he be a lieing user when he never said that he changed his mind about you?
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Yes, he asked her at the beginning of their relationship. However, he stopped approximately around the time he started having doubts about dating her while she tried to get invited. You know, with Jewish men it's almost like a pregnancy test - 95% accurate! He started having doubts a few weeks prior to the breakup. She noticed his reluctance in terms of committing to the dates and plans. Hence building resentment and yelling on her part. It was not about the purse and one evening, it was about the total shift Jamie felt on a cerebral level for some time. I am not here to analyze people I have never met. Scout, your experience is unique (just like everybody else) and the outcome is not clear yet. I do hope, however, that women can avoid being hurt by letting go of false hopes. It takes courage to say that yes, I like him a lot and he is nice but he is not on the same page with me. It takes courage to approach a man and ask about his intentions and state your wishes with regard to a relationship.
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I think that it always necessary to work on improving yourself. It's unfortunate that we pay attention to it only when something bad happens in our relatioships. Scout, I also know many women in the status of exes that keep working on communication, being attentive, and non-demanding with guys who clearly are not committed to them. But those women still have hopes because of the crambles of attention they get. One more red flag that I saw in Jamie's relationship: he did not want to take her to his sister. Being Jewish, I understand how important the family is for Jewish men. Most of the time they would only bring in a woman that would be approved by family and would become a member of that family in a future. Not having a lot of friends but having very close relationships with family members is typical for Jewish men (not all of them). I hope that he would invite Jamie to family gatherings next time. I tend to rely on actions rather than words when it comes to men.
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Oh yes, dumpers do feel guilty and try to be nice to get rid of their guilt for hurting their exes. Last time I checked, there were many guys who still kept in touch with their exes having casual sex, hanging out, and helping out from time to time. They openly talk about warm feelings toward the exes and having a good time with them... as long as the rules are not broken and there are no demands on being exclusive. And at the same time they are still looking for "the one".
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It's a very decent salary for a single mom with two kids. She is doing great and she is not a loser at all.
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At this point you don't have to feel guilty for seeing other people. I also wonder why a woman always gets blamed for being physical with a man when it takes two people to be intimate. You made a choice to be with him, you have no need to justify your decision. You are both adults and you are not strangers. Clearly, he is online looking for others and evaluating his options. Clearly, he wants to alleviate his guilt by doing nice things for you and being affectionate. Does it mean that his core decision of you not being the one has changed? I doubt it. Can you change his decision by being more available, attentive, intimate, and sweet to him? You have been sweet, attentive, intimate, and avaliable from the very beginning. In your heart you know that if you ask him about your status, he would not give you a different answer. Another thought: the holiday season is here. Sinlge people are very vulnerable during this period and tend to avoid being alone at any cost. Hence they call the exes or stay with a person that is around at the moment.
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New and newly broken. Any advice?
moonbeam111 replied to bambina maxima's topic in Breaking Up Advice
He made a choice to have the type of relationship he wanted. You made a choice to be treated not as a mistress or a companion. You both made different choices. Bravo to you that you walked away from the relationship where you were not loved. I think that when your core values are ignored, it's imperative to get out and take care of yourself. You may want to use therapy sessions to focus on you instead of his choices and behaviors. What kind of man would you want to be with? What kind of relationship you are looking for? What is your ultimate goal? What does being an couple mean for you? -
Could be a crazy stalker and your husband may have nothing to do with that. Too little information to make any conclusions yet. Try not to panic and avoid becoming paranoid. Having said that, I think that the phone calls are strange and you need to find out what is going on. Talk to him about phone calls when he gets home. Also, there could be a separate reason for him not being sexual.
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New and newly broken. Any advice?
moonbeam111 replied to bambina maxima's topic in Breaking Up Advice
When we are hurt, we tend to forget that people make mistakes and are not perfect. How many times we thought that something was not important until we realized the true meaning of things and our perception was instantly changed because of that! I call this growing and maturing. Happens to almost everybody (I hope). It's very early into your breakup process to be able to forgive and let go. However, when it happens, you can see that you can listen to the other person and finally hear his point of view. Right now your task is to get REALLY angry so you can re-evaluate yourself and change for the better. Regardless of them coming back to you. Use your anger constructively. It's a great source of energy that will help you to improve your life. Dorsay, your therapist agreed with YOUR PERCEPTION of the other person. Bambina -what a funny dream with an attempt to reclaim the power (empire state building) over your emotions (water) and destroy the basis of the relationship (waterbed). Keep running gilrs, it will get better!