bluecastle

Reading this, I can only imagine what a toll these 10 years have been for her. She's an adult, she choose to keep investing with you even as you stayed on the fence, consumed more by guilt than by her, and that's a choice she's going to have to come to terms with on her own. Still, a toll is a toll. While you're now here longing for her familiar affection, she's here feeling the peace of no longer being beholden to what's familiar for her: battling through your guilt and second thoughts for sustained affection and commitment. I suspect the "180" you're encountering is her feeling more empowered and less reliant on you emotionally, sad as that is to contemplate. People, even the most kindhearted, have limits. Sounds like what you're calling her coldness is her filling up her tank, while you're accustomed to her emptying it on you, you two. This is wonderful, if understandably bittersweet. Keep leaning into this, as it's what will allow you to experience something it sounds like you didn't get to experience over the past decade: genuine emotional availability. That is a gift, and hopefully you can come to see it as such, even if it comes with this loss.

I think what you're doing, all in all, is exhausting yourself by trying to make this man into someone he isn't. There was a nice little spark on Bumble, I get it. But since then? He hasn't shown much romantic interest. If I've read this right, it seems you've only hung out a handful of times since Feb 1, when he capitulates to pressure, and that the bulk of your communication is about you trying to get him to be more communicative. To him, or to your idea of him and/or a desire for a relationship that predated him? I'd give that some thought, since the actual him doesn't seem to have brought much into your life save for stress. Two months ago you didn't know he existed. Now you are lecturing him on how he has to "change his ways." Those kinds of talks are awful with someone you've been with for years, and generally unproductive even then. With someone you hardly know who is in no way committed to you? They're generally a sign that what you want and what you have are at diametric odds. Dating is a lot easier when you accept what people give you rather than trying to coax your own hopes for people out of them. I'm sorry he didn't end up being who you wanted him to be, but I think the sooner you can accept that the easier this will be—with him, and with dating more generally.

What strikes me in your posts is that you seem to be searching for a form of safety that does not exist, or at least that cannot be provided by another human being, which is a recipe for anguish. Relationships are a risk, always, every day. There is not a single one that is immune to infection, nothing that can be done to make certain that it won't end. From one angle, this is sad and frightening. From another? It's like all of life, and what allows for such wonder, such depth. You don't get the full spectrum of the latter until you can accept the former. As a child, did you feel that love and acceptance from your parents was dependent on you being perfect? Do you recall being anxious if they left you alone—worried, say, that they would not return? Do you recall safety as something you felt, or yearned to feel? What was their relationship like, in terms of how love was expressed and received? Was one parent prone to nerves, to doubts, to believing that some form of calamity (financial, personal, physical, etc.) was always around the corner? Were there any events in which your sense of safety was jeopardized for a length of time? These are just questions. I ask them not knowing if they're remotely relevant, but because the roots of what you're dealing with right now are far deeper than anything to do with your boyfriend. You outlined them yourself, it seems to me, right here: Where does this come from, do you think? To find an answer that brings some peace, you have to train the ruminating part of your brain to focus on you with the same ferocity you're now focusing on him, female friends, doomsday hypotheticals connected to stories from friends. You also want to approach this inquiry with curiosity, not judgement. You're not searching here for something that is "wrong," and needs to be purged, but just something tender about you that needs to be respected, better understood. Leech it of its mystery and it loses some of its power. This, to echo many posters, is where therapy can be a godsend. It's like trekking through a dense forest with an experienced guide, rather than alone. You understand the forest better, and while it never loses its wild edge, its wild edge becomes less potent. You see beauty where before you saw threats. I can sit here and tell you that I firmly believe men and women can be friends, or that I firmly believe a stable, healthy relationship is not one that can be "torn to shreds" by sparkly new person. If my girlfriend told me today that she's met someone who lights her up in ways I don't, I would be crushed, and no doubt my ego would be inflamed for a good bit. But I'd also know our demise had nothing to do with that other person; it would be because we were not as stable and healthy as I'd thought and hoped. To my belief system, that is the truth to the situations your friends have mentioned to you, and which you so fear. And to me? Seeing it this way makes it less scary. But that's me. You are you, and I was reluctant to even share that because I fear you are looking for proof in the external rather than the internal. Like, right now, you're telling yourself you'll be "stronger" once you see him interacting with a woman and "nothing bad happens." Yet you've already seen this, and still you cry at night, can't sleep, and, most devastating to my eyes, are in a relationship in which you are concealing a huge part of your personal truth from your boyfriend. The good news is that the proof and safety you're seeking is already inside you. I think you just need a little help to find it.

What is it that you’re looking for in sharing the above? Confirmation that this tattoo is connected to what you already know: that she is deep in the throes of untangling herself from her last relationship? Or an argument that the tattoo is just a tattoo and that you’re overthinking? The impression your posts give me is that you are drawn to the drama of all this, that you find her and the situation more enticing the more you prove she’s sprung on him. Could it be that you’re not really emotionally available yourself, and so you find her emotional unavailability familiar, compelling, safe?

I'm wondering how this resonates with you, OP, as the instinct to sabotage something that's barely begun becomes more ripe in each of your posts. The idea that you might tell him to end it? Aside from that being the definition of game playing, it's creating a scenario that affirms one theory—that he's not into you, that he's going to hurt you, that you are a victim to his charms with no agency of your own, that you've collided with yet another player—and cutting off all other avenues for another theory. Me, in your shoes right now? I'd ask him in one of your exchanges if he's still down to hang out on Saturday, and what he's thinking in terms of what to do, since it seems that's what you most want, which is all that really matters. His response will give you actual information, to see if your wants align. When Saturday comes around, you'll then get even more information on the nature of your alignment. There is a chance that the information you get, at any of these stages, will sting. But that is dating, or learning the degree to which you do, or do not, align with someone else.

But what you're describing here? It's not a relationship, not really. It is an affair, and putting "relationship" in quotes to describe it, as you did above, doesn't negate that. Your relationship is with your wife, as hers is with her husband. That is what is awry here—what has been awry from point A to point Now—regardless of the ecstasy you two have shared. There was a time when, in that ecstasy, you could both forget about those facts for a bit, just like someone can forget about their gambling debt after a few lines of cocaine. That time has passed, for her. She's putting down the drugs (you) and dealing with the debt (husband, marriage, her own emotions). You're still wanting the drugs, but you've got to focus on the debt. It is real and it is growing.

I think you'd benefit from taking a few thousand deep breaths right about now. Seriously, try a few. All in all, it seems you're spinning around because he is not behaving in exactly the way your ex did early on, or in exactly the way you hoped he would after a saucy entanglement, which has triggered in you an avalanche of complicated feelings: about your ex, about unfortunate experiences with men in the past, that are now being projected onto the present in technicolor. He is not those men. He's just a guy you barely know. If dude is still chatting with you, if you two are still going to see each other this weekend—well, great. And if you can't quite see it like that—well, all that is on you, not him. What comes across in your posts is a certain volatility of feeling, a quickness in deciding he's no longer into you, was "using" you, and so forth. Where's that come from, do you think? I'd reflect on that a bit—and maybe the ways sleeping with someone quickly doesn't contribute positively to that tendency—because it's the kind of thing that will make sustained connection with anyone really challenging.

While it's understandable this question is top of mind, I think this is the moment when you need to ask another, harder set of questions: Namely, why not end your marriage? Until you deal with that part of this equation—and the part of yourself that led you into this affair—all you're going to be doing is making a mess messier. I realize that's probably not what you want to hear, but it's not in judgement that I'm writing. More pragmatism than anything else. Many people have affairs. Most of them combust—nature of the beast. Alas, some relationships do bloom and blossom from such bonfires. But the only way that can happen is if both people end the relationships they're in. If you see this episode as highlighting weaknesses in your marriage, and you don't have interest in addressing those weaknesses with your wife, you've got to stand a few inches taller than you currently are and address that before there's any addressing this. Seems she is on that path with herself, and her husband. Where it leads her, and you two, is unknown. But that shouldn't stop you taking some steps that seem long overdue.

Sorry you're dealing with this. I quote the above because I can't help but think a lot of what you're feeling right now is far more connected to your ex than to this guy. Seems almost from the start what was appealing about him is that he represented a new path, a level of thrill and connection that you were yearning for, and not getting, with your ex. A taste of something new can be very powerful after eating the same thing for a year, to the point where it can be hard to remember there is a difference between a bite and meal. I also quote the above because I can't help but wonder if this new guy senses you're fresh out of something, still in the place where anyone new in your life is going to be immediately compared to your ex. When new person is great? Your breakup is affirmed. When new person lets you down? Ex is missed, a headspace you've just outlined above. Given that most people just want to be seen as people, not pluses and minuses on an ex comparison test, perhaps he's just tapping the brakes a bit now that his own hormones aren't steering the ship. Maybe this goes nowhere. Maybe it goes somewhere. Time will tell, and if at the end of the day he gave you what you needed to let go of a relationship that wasn't serving you—well, that's a gift, as is a fun, frolicsome evening. All in all, I think you're in a bit of an adjustment period, leaving the world of a relationship and entering the world of dating. It's different. And most people interested in a relationship are going to be a bit hesitant about someone just out of one. If you're still on for Saturday, or want to reach out and clarify that, all good. No need to overthink. You've done nothing wrong. See how things go, accepting they could go a million different directions, including nowhere. Remove your ex from the equation and this dude is just a human being you hardly know, and who hardly knows you. Sex doesn't change that. Often it accentuates it, as seems to be the case here on both sides.

I think this is really all you need to be looking at right now, and asking if this history makes continuing this relationship possible for you, or not. Seems you're bending yourself every which way to try to accept behavior and treatment that you find (understandably) absorbent and hurtful, along with trying very hard to deny just how much it's (understandably) hurting. Big hugs, as all that sounds really hard. Looking through his work communication, combing it over for signs that he's being "good" or "bad," turning to the internet in hopes that some anonymous strangers will say something to allow you to keep going: that just sounds like a really exhausting place to be. Once you're there, almost everything you see is going to look questionable and suspicious, make you edgy, excepting those very brief moments when it feels "good" because the baseline is generally so turbulent. Add in that his temper is such that it frightens you to speak to him and the questions that seems most pertinent at this juncture are: Is this really how you want to live your life? What, exactly, are you getting out of this? Like this... ...I'm not sure if you're seeing it—and, rest assured, I know full well how love, lust, and hope can fog the lens—but once you are declaring that you don't want a mother/son dynamic that looks like x, y, z you are already in that dynamic, dictating exactly how he is to speak, or not speak, to other people. Part of why you're upset right now, after all, is that his work communication shows that he disobeyed this directive. I'm curious: What do your friends and family think about this relationship?

Well, since we’re all already in this wormhole, one possibility is that he tried to get in touch with you back then but didn’t realize the castle doors had been sealed and the moat dug after 48 hours. Months later, feeling a little bored/curious/lonesome/sentimental/who knows/who cares, he tried to reestablish contact through new profiles to passively feel out the potential of another hang. Didn’t quite work, but provided a little dopamine hit that he got a little hooked on, and, boom, here you guys are in this little dance. Easy way to make this go away? Just stop caring about it, rather than all the blocking. It’ll fade away.

I’m curious: When did you block him after the date? When he didn’t get in touch in an hour, a day, a week? Just trying to understand when you decided he had “ghosted” you. Anyhow, his recent activity likely stems from the same place as your curiosity about it: boredom, thirst, and so on. It’s really not rocket science, but I get how approaching it from that angle can make it all kinda exciting.

What, exactly, is this that you want to approach her about? She's been up front with you about everything, and has already taken the steps you seemed to want when you began posting here: her ex is no longer watching the kitten, a choice she made with very little pushing from you. All in all, it sounds like you want her to do the impossible: to assure you that her past relationship is in the past, that it in no way poses a threat to what's developing between you two. But it's really just time that will provide the answers there, as is the case with every relationship in this early stage. So it's on you, as Rose said, to be honest with yourself about whether or not these are dice you're willing to keep rolling. Her path to healing is hers, not something you can expedite. In a way, whether she is genuinely "ready" or not doesn't matter if your reaction to all the variables is to become more skittish and hesitant. Generally speaking, this is why many people balk at exploring romance with someone fresh out of something: not just because said person might not be ready, or still raw, but because said person's circumstances make it hard to keep surrendering to the connection, as you're discovering.

This is pretty harsh. Doesn't really sound like you respect her so much as pity her, which is about as rough on the foundation as her still being tangled up with her ex. If dating someone straight out of a relationship isn't for you—well, that's totally understandable. It's not for many, for the reasons you're learning: the questions, the doubts, the suspicions, the kittens—it can all cloud things in the fragile, early days of connection. But it's not as if she falsely advertised herself, so it's worth taking some personal accountability here. You were drawn to all this at some point, and that point was more or less yesterday. Did you see her as person, or as a problem you could solve? Regardless, there's really no need to start painting her with a shady brush. If you see a future here, but have some concerns, why don't you just talk to her openly? Ask her what kind of contact she's hoping to maintain with her ex, while making it clear you understand it's complicated, and then listen to what she says and how she responds. That way you're not sleuthing and ruminating and creating these indirect tests, but can instead know if you two are on the same page. Any way you cut it, this sort of navigation and negotiation is going to be par for the course in some way, shape, or form with her, or anyone, who was in a long relationship a few exhales before your first date. On the other hand, if this is just not for you, and you're realizing that as you become more invested, be honest with yourself, and with her, about that. That's okay. Many people, if not most, would not be game to roll the dice on someone so fresh out of something so long. Whether they're still in touch or "never speaking again," the embers are still simmering and the heat can singe newcomers and new connections. Time, and time alone, is what puts them out, so it's up to you to gauge whether you can be your true, open, and secure self as that time passes, and whether you can trust—or not—that she is sincerely ready for something new. Again, this attitude and perspective doesn't serve anything. It's like you already believe she's deceiving you in some way, and are trying to prove that, when it seems that what has changed here is that you're more invested—and, therefore, more nervous about things than you were when dude was watching the kitten so you guys could go on the dates. Don't get me wrong. There's plenty to be hesitant about here. At the same time, there are people who navigate this stuff with grace. You've just got to be honest about your own threshold for what you've signed up for. What seems workable after a few dates, or a few months, often shows itself to be more complex as time passes. Perhaps that's what's happening here, sad as it is to consider?

Sorry you're going through all this. The end of a relationship is always painful, and the way this ended, after so many years, is going to make that initial sting all the more potent. Big hugs as you navigate the waves the feelings. As you sort through it all, I hope you can find the space to reflect on the relationship as a whole, and yourself, as the more you write this doesn't sound quite so sudden. Fear, insomnia, anxiety, gender identity struggles, body dysmorphia: that is a lot for a human to weather, and issues that make a sustained relationship of equals very challenging. Do you feel the support you offered her was returned, or was your dynamic one in which you were doing the heavy-lifting in hopes that she would find stability? I ask because one of the lessons here, and a very hard one, might be that a relationship is only ever as sound and solid as both parties.

This sounds great, with a caveat: You don't want your primary headspace on dates, and while dating, to be red flag detective mode. Lean too hard into that space and everything starts looking like a red flag, every new person a potential threat. Like, the guy you mentioned you saw three times? That doesn't sound to me like a negative or red flag experience, in the big picture, at least in the sense that you should have run earlier. You were feeling something out, it took a sour turn. Not your fault, not his, just life. Chances are you may experience something like that again. It's part of feeling out a person, a connection. There's always an element of risk. I'd say that the best thing to do—easy to write down, harder to implement when the pheromones kick in—is to really listen to what people tell you. So if on an early date a man tells you something vague and brooding—like, say, he isn't into labels or isn't sure if he wants a relationship since his last one put a dent in his soul—take that at face value, not as a challenge to see if you can be the magic key that unlocks his heart. That keeps you in the power position, while the whole notion of red flags, at least in my opinion, can quickly veer into a disempowered position where connection gets eclipsed by mitigating threats. Most people we meet? They are not going to be our person, for whatever reasons. That's the hardest pill to swallow, ultimately, but it's medicine worth digesting. Frees you up to keep your wits about you while also staying open.

Sorry to hear about this confusing juncture in your life. For what it's worth, I don't read what you've written and see a story of a woman who "keeps" going for emotionally unavailable men. Yes, you were in a turbulent longterm relationship, and in the wake of it got tangled up in something with someone who only wanted things vague and undefined. Not uncommon. Odds are you weren't totally available yourself when it all got started. But as you grew and realized he wouldn't commit? You untangled yourself. Great. Sounds like something that served you for a moment in time, not something you should feel defined by. Cut to the most recent guy. Well, for better or worse, that's kind of dating. We meet people who seem interesting and promising out of the gates, only to learn they're not so interesting or promising after a few dates—often because, alas, they're hung up on someone else. Always sucks, but is so common that one has to be somewhat okay with it being a potential pitfall along the way to finding a more nourishing connection. That this was just a handful of dates, rather than 10 months of yearning for something more from some brooding stoic—well, I think that speaks to you being guided by a pretty solid compass. Seems to me that some of your anxiety about all this is connected to seeing your friends getting married, starting families, and so on, and feeling a pressure to be doing all that yourself, ideally yesterday. That's going to make any dating experience that doesn't pan out feel consequential, but doesn't necessarily mean you've got some magnet lodged in your soul for unavailable dudes. Just that you haven't met the right dude, yet. Cut yourself some slack, keep dating, take breaks when it gets overwhelming, and all this will work out.

Thanks for the kind words @mylolita. Really means a lot to hear that. As for what I do out there in the 3D world, one thing I love about this little world is that it's not so relevant. So, hey, if you like the way I write on this forum that's all that matters! (@Lambert We'll be back in business soon.)

I washed up on these curious shores in 2017, I think. Was coming out of a mushroom cloud of a breakup, and, like so many, my heart and (especially) my ego was all sorts of dizzy. I was hoping an anonymous chorus of internet strangers would hear my story and say something along the lines of: sounds like there's a great chance for y'all to take that wreckage and turn it into rainbows, so long as you do x, y, and z! Because then, you know, I could be right and avoid feeling the full weight of what the world was asking me to feel. Didn't get that, as a wreck is a wreck, and thank this site for helping me learn that deceptively simple lesson. Deep down, I think that's what I wanted and needed to hear. I was drawn to all the voices here, the vastly different perspectives in dealing with the most universal of human conditions: pain, confusion, love, loss, yearning. Can't remember the exact thread that drew me in, but it was a teenager going through heartbreak and he got a really tender response from someone who was posting about an epic divorce. That display of compassion really moved me, and inspired me to throw own voice into the ring whenever I felt I had something to say, or that someone really needed to feel heard. Also, as someone who can slip pretty wildly out on the ice of life, I think listening to others and offering some thoughts helped me become more conscious about my own desires, wants, values, boundaries, all that. Kept me in check, you could say. A forever work in progress, all that, of course.

Sorry about all this. Can I ask how old you guys are, for some context? Reading your post, it seems you see everything pretty clearly here, without wanting to fully see what you're seeing. Big picture, viewed generously? This is not working out, and seems to work less and less the harder you try to work on it. While she is completely entitled to her feelings about this—and, being a human, she is allowed to have all sorts of insecurities—in your shoes I would be really concerned about how she is reacting to theses feelings, these insecurities. I'd also be concerned about how you are reacting to it all. Being loved and pursuing love, put simply, does not have to be this painful and literally punishing. Glad to hear you're talking to someone to better understand your propensity to tolerate this level of punishment for love. Zoom out a bit, and it seems this may be where you two deeply connect, since she's kind of doing her version of that. Still, that's more like the connection between a fuse and a bomb than the one between two puzzle pieces that slip easily into place. Things to think about, but only once the smoke clears? If these relationships with these women are important to you it is a must that, whoever you date, be understanding and not (too) thrown by that. Not every woman will be, and that's okay. But, again, that's to think about and process on your own, in the privacy of your own spirit, not in appeasement-mode to someone else, particularly someone who has repeatedly shown you that her place of comfort, when feeling vulnerable, is to be quite cruel.

Sorry to hear about all this. But also? Very happy—for you, your spirit, and your children—to hear that you've made the hard decision to walk away from the fire. Sticking to that's not going to be easy, as you don't need me to tell you that habits, even ones very bad for us, can be tough to break. So stick around on the forum and talk when needed. At the risk of overstepping, I can't help but wonder if what you found in her was something similar to what you once found with drugs and booze: the lure of the rush, the whiplash from extreme highs to extreme lows, an all consuming escape from reality, the explicable sweetness of rolling the dice with your own life, or some such. Stepping further out onto the same limb, I wonder if some deep-seeded part of you feels you deserve to be punished—either due to those long ago choices you made, or perhaps those choices (drugs, etc.) quenched that same feeling—since the relationship you've described is kind of a case study in redefining punishment as love. Anyhow, I offer that riff not to be taken as factual—I don't know you, after all, but just to spur some reflection. If you can come to see all this from a different angle—one that's not about the crazy things we do for love, but about how some crazy stuff inside us (and we've all got it!) can lead us down some strange paths if we don't have a handle on it—you have a better chance of walking away and staying away. Chalking it all up to love-is-crazy, on the other hand, risks keeping you rooted in the same spot, vulnerable to repeat versions of this, since you're a human being and we're all wired to want and seek and love. The key is redefining it. Simply put: it's not a word to keep leaning on when it comes to someone who has tried to end your life. Might be something worth reminding yourself of, here and there, during these hard and destabilizing days.

Hypothetical question to you: Let’s pretend you’re single, and you and I are out having beers. We notice an attractive woman at the bar who carries herself with elegant, mysterious panache. I say you you, “If she walked up to this table and offered you $10 million for a night in a hotel, would you consider it?” What’s your response? Pure disgust? Moral outrage? Laughter? A shrug at my impossibly improbable and ridiculous question? Think about it from that angle for a minute, and maybe you’ll find yourself less worked up about a pretty silly exchange with your gf

I can't help but read this and feel that this friendship was on thin ice prior to this incident. Anything to that? The reason I say that is because this is, respectfully, a whole lot of drama and spite over...well, over a bunny biting a bag. A nice, semi-pricey bag, yeah, but it's a thing to put things in. Can really only see it escalating to this point, emotionally, if one or both people involved were already looking for some outlet for their dislike and distaste, for a reason to end the friendship. Sh*t happens, as the old saying goes. This is that. Friends? They don't let sh*t get in the way of what matters. She offered to pay, but her lack of empathy irks? She fails to acknowledge that the used bags you're looking at are cheaper and that irks? Her Venmo issues mean you have to take a photo of a check or put it in the bank and that irks? I don't mean to minimize your upset—it's real, I get it—but from these seats it's hard to understand exactly why you feel so slighted by any of this unless there was a preexisting condition (e.g. you being unhappy with this friendship) that got enflamed by the adventuresome pallet of a four pound ball of fluff.

Sorry about all this. Can I ask how long you've been dating? Is it agreed that you're exclusive, in a committed relationship? All in all, it seems that at this juncture he is sending you a very strong, and very clear message that he does not want to speak to you—so, to answer your question: no, I would not reach out yet again. All you'd be doing is sending an equally clear message that all he has to do to ensure you're sprung on him is ignore you, which I'm going to assume is not the dynamic you're seeking. Given that this has been an issue in the past—and given that it's triggering in you so much anxiety that you're leaving missives and deleting him on SM to get attention—I'd say this might be a very good time for you to rethink if this is really someone who has a good influence on your spirit. I get that you really want this to work, but could it be that what you really want is for this to be a much different relationship than it actually is? Might be a question worth pondering right about now, hard as the answers might be.

Agreed. The moment you are likening potential romantic interests to "poison" is generally the moment when you realize you're sipping from the wrong goblets. You don't keep returning to restaurants that give you food poisoning, after all, no matter how nice the decor or service. Besides, how would you feel to be deemed "poison" by someone you were spending time with? Honored? Intrigued? Or offended?