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No your right Iceman, there was a lot of headgames going on, and I confronted her on that actually a few days ago. I pretty much just laid it out and told her that I don't like that sh!! and I don't like to be played. She was quick to apolagize and asked for forgiveness quite a few times. I know that she was sincere when she apolagized and asked for forgiveness, so I told her it's fine now since it's done with and in the past. I agree, all of this could have been handled throughout the relationship, but neither of us really took the time to try to fix things. We were both so stuck and dependent on the other person, that fixing problems all of a sudden became the last thing on our minds. Also when we talked today she said that things may have been a bit different if we both took different actions (she should have been upfront with me as soon as she felt these issues were becoming a problem, and I shouldn't have forced her to make a choice that she wasn't ready to make). But what happened, happened, and maybe things needed to happen that way just for us to get to where we are now. So we sat down and had a nice long talk today. I went to her house to finish some work that I was doing yesterday, and she ended up sitting and talking with me the whole time. We also ate dinner together and sat and watched a movie, as well as continuing the conversation the whole time. My stongest guess was that I was a fall back guy as well, and she put that to rest. I had asked her that with our new "friendship" we established, then what type of position is this in her life. She said that she just wants things between us to be more casual (not having to hang out everynight together, but still going out and having fun with each other as well). She then said that she never wanted to just "break up", but she just wanted us to get some breathing space, plus she wanted to "grow" (she has always been the "baby" of her family her whole life, and she was really fed up with that). I then asked her about her position on meeting new people, and potentially dating other people. She said that she's not interested in meeting anyone new, and that she never was. She said that she want's us to be together, and that she wants our relationship to work. But she wants us to take things slow, and not rush back into anything just yet. But she also said that if we end up just staying friends, and that this goes on for more than a few months (no set time period, but really distant in time) then maybe we should consider to start to see new people. She said that the only reason that would happen is that if during this time of "starting new" we end up not moving forward together, and just end up being content where we are at. I said that's understandable (I'm not going to wait years for her to realize she wants to be with me) and I also agree with that, but if it came to that then we would have to push the friendship we have a few steps back (I mean it's not fair if we are seeing other people, but still meeting up to have casual sex, or just sit down and make out). So as I said, we are kinda "together", but we are still "separated" and both of us really want to make things between us work, but we both want to work on our lives as well. It's crap like this that make everyone around us so confused, yet we both are in a understanding state, and know what we want (which is each other) and know what it's going to take (time, patience, and work). We both love each other dearly, and she kept saying today that she felt so bad that things had to come to this, but it has made us both really appreciate the each other, and appreciate how much we mean to each others life. So yeah I got to be careful and watch out for some things, but I know that she is what I want, so I'm going to take this step (or risk in some views) and see what happens. And I really agree with what you said about how a relationship is made stronger (communication, understanding, patience, and compromise) and we are on that level now (even though we had to break up to get there). Our communication now is better than before (and we would communicate a lot), we understand each other more, and what each other wants more now, we both need (and our willing) to have patience with each other (and ourselves) which we have now, and lastly we both have been compromising each and every thing about this "break" and friendship (even though it had looked like she dictated things, everything has been mutual and made by compromising what we both want). But thank you again Iceman, your advice is very informative and I really appreciate it. I really feel more comfertable now (after me and her talked today) than I did about before about our situation. Things just make sense to both of us, and we both are now ready to start working out our relationship and making it stronger.

Well for one, the "I'm doing better" and "I was a jerk" attitude that he has had with you is for him to see where your at (so he knows he can fall back to you) and to get some support (you know hoping you would say "your not that bad", "don't talk about yourself that way" and so on). This was just his way of seeing what type of feelings you still have for him, and if your still going to be there when he's done "exploring". He wants to finish being a "kid" so to speak (getting drunk and kickin it is so old, and lame that he'll either grow out of it soon or never at all), and that's something you have to really step back and think about. If he's been this way for years, and showed no progress of "growing up" then your chances of him actually growing are slim to none. Believe, most guys like that don't really "grow up" at all. Being a guy that used to know a lot like that, and still meet guys that act that way (I mean come on if your 29 and still act like a HS Senior, then you've got problems with reality). If he has made small, little changes, through time then he may just want some time to "finish" up with his friends and really think about what he wants in his life. I did this when I finally decided to quit smoking pot after being a 10 year vet. I wanted to quit for a long time, and when I finally made a choice to do it, I still spent a few months hanging out with the boys and just doing a bit of casual tokin. Anyways, I realized that's not what I want in my life, nor do I need it, so I left it behind. But if your guy isn't make these types of realizations (especially with someone who really cares for him trying to help) then he may never come to realize those things until it's way to late. You once you get a low as possible, the only way to go is back up. And I know you don't want that to happen to him, but sometimes that is necessary for someone to really "grow" and accept their reality. But that doesn't mean you cant be there to help him up and dust him off, but you can't sit on the sideline the whole time while he's doing this. Try not to be so available to him when he makes his contact with you (when he calls just say your busy and only have a minute to talk, or if he sends you an e-mail don't reply until a few days later, and tell him that you just been really busy doing your own stuff). If you really care for him, then you may just have to step out of his life and let him realize what he's missing, as well as let him realize that he gave up the best thing in his life just to get drunk with his buddies. Just be strong, and let him know that your their to talk, but not going to sit around and wait either (it sounds a bit confusing, but it's what you may have to do).

Well Iceman once again thanks for the tips/advice. Yeah we both are comfertable with just being "friends with benifits" and are just take things from there. Lets see if I can answer your questions in order: 1. When we were together, going out with friends was something that happened once every blue moon, for both of us. We both became really secluded with each other, and kinda stopped going out with our friends, as a couple and by ourselves. The only times that we would do that type of stuff was if the other person was out of town, or going to be gone for a few days. 2. Towards the break (like maybe a few days before it happened) she started to hang out with some "new" friends (people she met at work) a couple times. But we would still get together and hang out as well. She stopped hanging with them after we broke up because she said they were all really "fake" towards her. 3. Yes, after we broke up she was going out a lot more. Right after we broke up she went out like 4 nights in a row, with her close friend to go to partys and clubs and stuff like that. But then she also started to break away from that too, and last night when all of us went out she said that it was so much nicer to be going out with me, and to hang out with me again. So we talked a little while ago, and I had also asked her about the whole going out and partying thing. I just was worried about her, since she is a "light weight" when it comes to drinking, and being a guy I know how some would try to take "advantage" of the situation for themselves. But she told me that those few nights that she went out with her friend (which she never drank as much as last night), she never let another guy touch her. She said that guys would try to come up and dance with her, or offer her drinks and she woul just reject them. Thats when she told me that all she really wants is for us to be "together" (like "in the closet" dating) but to have some breather space to be able to hang out with our friends as well. Also the thing that really drove us apart was how we really shelterd ourselves from going out and doing things like we did last night (were both in our 20's and the last time we went out to a club was over a year ago). So were kinda starting over, if that makes sense. Were not wiping away the 2 years that we had together, but we are kinda starting over with the whole dating and going out, then after we feel more comfertable with each other, we wil then get into a relationship again (which would be stronger than the one before). So it's nice to know that she isn't looking for someone else, and she also knows that I'm not looking for someone else, and we both want to get back together, but we both also want to wait until we are both ready for a stronger, more lasting relationship.

First thing you need to do is sit down and think about if this guy is really trustworthy, and if this is really worth all your effort. I mean if some girl has been pursuing him for 2 years, and he's dating you, he shouldn't have given her the clue that she needs to quit. But he didn't. Not only that he turned to her as soon as he left you. Which means she was still always there, even while you 2 were dating. Another thing is that you need to ask yourself is this guy really worth all your effort (I had to do that when my girl broke up with me, and I came to the conclusion that she is the one I want and now we are working things out together). Both men and women can get freaked out by being in a "commited" relationship at a young age. During that time that person is usual going to want to see if there's something better out there, before really settling down. The reason why is because most of the time that person already knows that they found at least one person who really loves them, so if that person can't find anything better, then they have the "fall back" person, which is what I think he's making you into. By telling you he's "Doing Better" I think he was trying to either make you a bit jealous (making you feel like hes better off without you), or he's was doing to get a reaction from you so he could know if you were "still there". So I can't really tell you how he would react to the letter. If he is still as immature as he was before (which is highly likely) then he may just look at it and not take anything in. If he has tried to mature, or maybe really loves you as much as he said before, he may just see that letter as something for him to think about. Don't really know, but if it will make you feel better to just get those things off your chest, and to let him know how you feel, then maybe you should just send it and then forget about him. Move on with your life (don't mean look for someone else, but keep that option open) and keep yourself busy, when (and if) he responds he will realize that you are also "doing better" and may just start to miss you and want you back.

That's some great advice. Me and my ex are going to try and work things through slowly, but step out of the relationship and just be friends as well. The past 2 weeks were hard, but now that we've accepted each other's friendship (and wanting to work things out) things are getting a bit better. We both went out for the first time in 2 weeks last night, and things were great. We still have a lot to do before were a couple again, but were making progress and some of the tips you've posted I've already followed, and some I need to put to use now, so thanks again for the great advice.

I think that by sending the letter you did the right thing. For one you let him know about the things in his life that hurt you (not that he has to change for you, but at least recognize that he's hurtin someone whe cares). Second you also let him know that you are still there for "support" (which could be good and could be bad). If your "always there" then he's going to know that he can always fall back on you, but he may also see it as sign of good faith, and realize that there is someone out there that will "pick him up" when he falls down. I kinda know what your going through as well. Me and my girl of 2 years just broke (I wrote about it in another thread), but about 1 year into the relationship she was getting really tired of my immaturites. I was always with the "wrong" crowd (used to be heavy into drugs, getting into fights, and pretty much had a ticket to death by the age of 25). I also knew that I was tired of that crowd before I met her, but being with her helped me "grow up" and realize that I wanted to mature. But know me and my girl broke up because she is feeling really immature inside, as well as wanting me to just excel in life without her holding me back. Anyways, it's a hard situation to be in (I'm still in it) but no matter what you just have to follow what your heart tells you. If you just sit down, open up your heart and listen, you'll start to realize what it is you want, and what you really want to do in this situation.

So something happened recently, and I don't know if we made things more complicated or confusing for each other. I'll just get to it, and hopefully someone can maybe shed a little light on the situation from an outside view. Yesterday, my ex's mom calls me and ask's if I can help her do some stuff at her house that I told her I would do a while ago (she has been really busy, and this is the only free time she had). I wasn't busy so I said yes, and told her I would be there in a coupld hours. When I got there, my ex was gettting ready to leave for work, and we have no harsh feelings towards each other or anything like that. So we gave each other a hug, talked for a little bit while she got ready, and before she left she asked me if I would want to go out with some friends of ours tonight. I said I didn't think I had plans, so give me a call and I'll see later. I went out and did my thing that day (after finishing at her moms house) and then that night when I got home, I get a call from her saying she just got out of work and wanted to know if I still wanted to go. I said sure, got ready and me her at her house. We went out to a bar/club with one of her girlfriends and a guy that we both know (apparently her friend and that guy hooked up a few weeks ago and were in the kinda dating, having sex as friends stage). Well that night was great. We danced, had drinks, laughed, and just had a great time. After the bar closed we went back to the other guys house and chilled there for a couple hours just talking and stuff like that. Then my ex said she was getting a bit tired and that we should go back to her house (we drove her car, and my car was at her house). Her friend was supposed to come and stay at her house as well, but after a night of a few drinks she wanted to stay at the guys house and do her thing. So we left. Now on the way back to her house she says we should stop somewhere and talk. So we look around and stop at a few parks, but that late at night nothing looked legit so we just went to her house and parked in the driveway to talk. We talked for a bit, and then next thing you know were kissing each other. After a few minutes we stop and she says that she doesn't want to lead me on into thinking someting different, and I told her the same but I also said that I kissed her too, it wasn't one sided. So we start kissing again, and then cloths start coming of, fingers and hands were going places, she's getting really wild (I know all her spots and she was loving it). Then she looks at me and says that she wants to have sex, but just as friends. She asked if I would do that with her being her best friend. I told her I wanted the same (hey alcohol can get anyone in the mood) and we made our way into her house. Let me say that was some of the wildest sex we have ever had. Afterwards she said that she was sorry, and when I asked why, she said that she doesn't want to hurt me or make me think that things our different because of what we did. She said she also didn't want to start using me (if she gets drunk and horny, she doesn't want me to think that sex is all she wants from me, especially since she knows she doesn't want to have sex with anyone else). I told her the same and said that I was sorry if she was going to regret this in the morning. She said she has no regrets about what we do, because we love each other. Later that night (we talked somemore about stuff like that) when I was leaving we both hugged and kissed some more, and then she looked at me and said "were just friends right" and I said "yeah, we can just be friends that have sex and stuff like that." She said that's fine, since she really doesn't want any type of commitment right now, but she knows that she wants to get back together with me when this is all thru. So as I said, I don't know if we just made things more complicated. Now that I'm sober I don't have any regrets, nor do I have any problem with just being "friends with benifits" during this time. My only thing is that I hope that we didn't make things worse between us, since we really want to work things out. I havn't talked to her yet, so I don't know if she's having regrets or if she really wants what she said. We both were really happy to spend that night together, and our now talking about going out a few more times (maybe again tonight, and tomorrow night to go to a party our friends house). I know that if we both start to drink again that we may just end up back in her bedroom again (which I have no problem with) but then I don't know if it's something that we shouldn't really be doing to each other so soon. Any advice or tips are welcome, seeing as I know what it is I'm going to do, I just want to hear other peoples opinions.

All though I already knew about the female clit, and how to get my girl to reach multiple orgasms, I still want to thank you for posting the info you did. I felt so bad for some of my girlfriends friends, when she would tell me that there b/f's had no idea what the female clit was, and that reaching an orgasm was a rare thing in their relationship. My girl would always throw it in their face that I knew what to do and she would have multiple orgasms everytime, then the next thing I know I'm getting calls from all of the other guys about what they need to do to make things better.

Well thanks Iceman for the support and advice. As I look back at my post I realize that it looks like she is making all the decisions, but we have actually been making decisions together. Most of the things that have been decided are mutual, and based on something that both of us could agree on. I've been good in keeping myself busy as well, especially since it's midterm time at school, and snowboarding season started last weekend. But what's really confusing is that even though we just agreed to not call each other during the week unless it was something really important, she calls me today to say hi. I wasn't really busy (just putting music on my MP3 player) so I answerd the phone, and she started off by telling me she misses me and wants to say hi. We talked for a few minutes (I wanted to keep it short just so we wouldn't get into a relationship talk), and even though she was hinting at wanting to see me soon, I told her that we will just see each other on Sunday, and not anytime before that so we can both have some time to think things through. It kinda sounds like she is almost ready to get back together, especially when I told her about taking our time and not rushing to see each other, since she respond with a "well who knows if we really need a lot of time apart" type of comment. I didn't say anything about it, and told her that I was going to go work on my computer and wanted to let her sit back and relax on her night off from work. I'm also thinking that she may just be feeling a little guilty, or depressed, about breaking up before my B-Day (which is on Saturday), and she may just be acting a bit nicer just to show me that she is still trying to consider my feelings and keep me from being upset. I told her not to worry, and that I was just still confused since I want to be here to support her, but I don't want to impose myself back into her life until she's ready. Anyways, I guess I'll just see what happens on Sunday, and will update the situation, unless something comes up during the week and we end up having a discussion again ( I kinda feel like she's either going to call me on Friday, or Saturday to say happy B-day, and maybe ask to see me for a little bit when I get back from Snowboarding.) Anyways, thanks again Iceman, and to anyone else that has some info or advice to give.

For me there must be some sort of physical attraction before anything else. This can range from just a pretty smile, to sexy legs, to capturing eyes. After I have found something that I find attractive, I start to learn about that person's inner character and beauty. A positive attitude and great personality are the qualities that really seal the deal for me to find a girl "beautiful". If the girl is really true, and speaks from the heart, then her "beauty" is even more noticible than before. That's just me though, and I know some people just look for the outer beauty, but I think a girl (and guys as well) need to have both if they want the world to see them as "beautiful".

My situation with my ex, or now g/f again, has been updated and I posted all the info at the end of this thread. Thanks again for the tips/advice, and feel free to keep them coming, since free knowledge is something I won't pass up. Well I hope that I'm posting in the right forum, and I hope that I can explain the situation in a right manner. Well I'll be turning 23 this weekend, and my girlfriend is 21 (turning 22 in May). We met each other 2 years ago at a Community College, and we hit it off really quick. Both of us had a crush on the other person before we even spoke to each other, and after our first date we both told each other that we really have strong feelings for one another. The relationship grew really quick, and over the next 2 years we became not only great friends, but a great couple as well. Fighting between us was small and never drastic, and usually always ended fairly quickly. We both made a promise to always tell each other exactly how we feel, and to be completely honest no matter what happens, which we have maintained throughout the past 2 years. She is a great person, and has all the qualities that every guy dreams about in a girlfriend. We both love each other to a great degree, and both know that we would never do a thing to hurt the other person. For both of us this was the first long term relationship, and first relationship that love was a true feeling in everything we did. Both of us have had relationships before we met, b ut neither of us had a relationship that lasted longer than 2 months, and neither of really felt love until we met each other. Well 2 weeks ago things between us start to go downhill. She started to become a bit secluded with herself, and I found myself wondering why she didn't want me around her that much anymore. After 2 days I told her that she needed to tell me what was wrong and not keep me in the dark, especially since we told each other we wouldn't do that to one another. We sat down to talk, and she told me that she was confused about herself, and no longer felt like she "knew" who she was anymore. I didn't take it too hard becuse it was perfectly understandable. We both were really dependent on each other, and I was having some of the same feelings after she started to be seclusive. So we told each other that maybe a little "time apart" would help us both get a better understanding of ourselves and build our own independence before we take our relationship any futher. I was fine for a coupld days, then I started to get really depressed and sad about the situation, and made the mistake of calling her and telling her that we should just break up, since time apart is the same thing. She called me the next day and was crying, she said that she didn't want to loose me and wanted to me to still be a part of her life, she just wanted us to slow down and get a better grip on reality. I told her it was a mistake to say what I said, and that a friendship with her would be fine. I then asked her that if time apart meant seeing other people (since I thought this is what may be confusing her, and she may want to "see what's better"). She said that she didn't have an answer for that, but she knew that she wants to be with me and no one else. She said that she isn't interested in meeting anyone else, since she needs to find happiness in herself before she can find happiness in a relationship. I said okay, and we agreed to give each other a little time away from each other, but still keep contact between us just as friends. So for the next week we spoke to each other on a casual basis (maybe once a day at the most), and we didn't schedule anytime to see each other. On a Friday she calls me and tells me that she really misses being able to see me and hang out, so I told her that we should meet at Church on Sunday, and then we could sit down and talk for an hour afterwards before she leaves for work. That Sunday was great, we sat and talked about everything and anything. We told each other that we loved each other still, and that our feelings havn't changed since before the break. She said that she is still really confused about everything, and that she feels really bad that we have to separate during this time (my B-day was coming up, and it was also our 2 year anniversary on the same day). I told her that she shouldn't doubt herself and just remember that this is for the better. We both need to grow up (she needs to more than I do) and we both need to figure out what our hearts really desire. If it's with each other, then we will know in time. She cried again and said that she doesn't want to hurt me, and that she knows that we were meant to be together. We decided to meet again later on that week so we could study together. The days inbetween that meeting we talked a little bit more (we spoke to each other about 5 times in those 2 days). When we met at the Library the other day, she said that she had somethings on her mind and wanted to talk. So we started talking and she said that she felt like we were leading each other into believing that our relationship was going to start again soon, when she really wasn't ready for it. I told her that I didn't want to force her back into a relationship if she wasn't willing to be in one, and that maybe we should take the friendship a bit slower. She said that's what she wanted, and that we will refrain from calling each other all week, and will talk to each other at Church this Sunday. I told her okay, we walked out to our cars and said goodbye. Before leaving though we both gave each other a hug, and just stood their in each others arms for a couple minutes. We just kept telling each other that we love each other, and that no matter what happens we will always be there for the other person. We gave each other a kiss on the cheek and said we will see each other on Sunday. So I really don't have any specific questions, just wanting advice and tips on what I should do in this situation. During the past 2 weeks both of us have gone out with other people, and have made the attempt to meet new people. But we both came to the same conclusion that there is no one else out there that will make us as happy as being with each other. I know that I need to back off and give her time, but I also want to show her that I will still be here for her without being obsesive in her life. I guess I'm just really confused right now, and feeling really depressed because my B-Day is coming up and I'm feeling a bit lonely inside. Thanks to anyone who reads through all of this and gives me some advice.