Believer VS Agnostic couple?

[roger]

Hi, this is my first post here, but i've read a couple threads here and there and got great advice from them so here we go...

 

I'm 24 and have been seeing this girl for about two months, and i must admit that even though i didnt have many girlfriends in the past (i stayed with the last one for 5 years) and that it's quite early in our relationship, everything is working out quite well... We have fun together, we've spent almost every night together for the past month and a half, we laugh a lot... It's really clicking between us, and it never felt this right with anyone else...

 

But of course there always seems to be one thing... She believes in god and i consider myself more of an Agnostic. The fact is, i think the possibility of a god exists, but that if so, us humans are so small compared to that entity, that we will never be able to fully understand it, so why bother? But you see, that'S just my personal opinion, i don't really care if there's a god or not, but i do believe in good morals, and i want to enjoy my time on earth doing good things, and we both share those morals.

 

I fully accept her beliefs, even though i don't share them. But it seems really important to her that her lover believes in God, and we had this talk before, but she's told me shes been living in denial about it, ignoring the fact that i dont believe and focussing more on the things we have in common (which i think is good). But i knew this was not over...

 

Something happened that made her think about what it would be like to raise kids with a non-believing father... She just left from my place after we had a talk about it. I told her that having parents from both sides would be good, as the kids could make their own choice. But her beliefs seems to be too strong, even though she really seems to like me, she's really confused and i know that if we stay together, we're not done with this talk.

 

aaaaargh. So complicated! I told her that she knew how i felt, that this subject wasnt has important to me than to her, that i understood and accepted her belief in God so that the choice was entirely hers... That i knew it was a lot of pressure for her to make that decision. but that if it was that important to her, that she should take the time to think about it. I think i was really mature about it. So after some crying and some hugging, she left... and now we play the waiting game...

 

Since she started coming to my place, she was always forgetting things, and we were joking around that she did on purpose so she could have an excuse to come back. When she left i asked her if she forgot something, she said no and left. Then i noticed her sweather...

 

So, what are you guys' opinions abouy this? Has any of you ever been in a similar situation?

Thanks

[shep88ner]

i am in very much of the same situation with my girlfriend. its not quite the same but similar. for instance, she is very much into God and religion. she believes strictly what the bible says and no matter what, trusts it and only it as the final say so. i for one, believe in a higher being, not necessarily God, i believe God is whoever we want him to be. i believe in evolution and i am pro-abortion and pro-gay marriage. (personal opinions). she see's it all in a different way. she's brought it up to me many times and has in some sort of ways tried to convert me. but there is simply no way i would believe in what she believes in.

 

it has caused many problems and arguments but i think she has learned that im just not into religion like she is. i want to be on this earth for me, i dont feel im on this earth to worship and please someone or something. but i also believe in good moral values and i try to do the right things.

 

i think what you did was good. i have had a talk with my girlfriend too and she also reacted much in this way. but now we've come to the agreement we just wouldnt talk about it and let it come between us. and so far we're going great. we've been together for 1 year and other than the little arguments early on we've been fine. i think she'll see that you dont have to believe in her thoughts to be a great guy, i wouldnt worry about it. just give it some time.

[Mrs Elliott Smith]

Just tell her that you can raise the future kids as God-believers. OK that was bad. (And it was a joke.)

 

She's going to have to get over it and deal with it, because one cannot simply change their beliefs on the account of someone else. She should accept you for who you are. You shouldn't have to give up your beliefs for her or anyone else. Something can and will be worked out when (if) you do have kids in the future.

[roger]

Thanks, it's nice to hear about someone else who has been in a similar situation... I just hope you're right!

 

About the "not letting it come between us" thing, that's kind of what we were doing with her being in "denial" about it... She would not argue about religious things while i tried to avoid the subject... But im not sure if thats the best thing to do...

 

I'll give her a couple days and if she does not contact me, i'll send her this passage from the bible :

 

If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace (I Corinthians 7:12-15).

[roger]

She's going to have to get over it and deal with it, because one cannot simply change their beliefs on the account of someone else. She should accept you for who you are. You shouldn't have to give up your beliefs for her or anyone else. Something can and will be worked out when (if) you do have kids in the future.

 

Thanks for your reply. That's the thing though, she has no desire of changing my beliefs, and she respects them. The only difference between her and me on that situation is that i know i can live with her even though she believes, its not that important to me. But for her it is, and she might just choose to find someone else who shares her beliefs...

[TheRedQueen]

I think that it really depends on the couple.

 

I know that my mother's Christianity, and my father's atheism, didn't seem to get in the way of their relationship. I myself am an atheist, and in the past, have tolerated my boyfriends' belief in a "higher power". What I would not be able to accept, however, would be dating a religious man, now that's where I draw the line.

[veneratio]

I'm in a similar situation. My girlfriend and I get along great except when it comes to religion. She swears by the bible, I don't.

 

It shouldn't come between you, but I don't think it's healthy for the relationship for her to be in denial about it. It's going to come up, and you're going to have to deal with it somehow...she can't ignore it forever.

[HellFrost666]

Personally, I would not raise a child under any religious doctrine. I would want them to learn all they can and then decide for themselves. My parents are both Atheists, but they didn't raise me that way. They raised me with a clean slate (or tried the best they could anyway.) I am against baptising children also. A child isn't old enough to make that choice, and so the parents are basically forcing them into it and making a huge life decision for them. We are not a society that embraces arranged marriages, no one picks our future job for us as children, no one decides where we will live, how many kids we will have, etc for us... So why decide what somone will believe for them? I am just against it.

[heloladies21]

Nah, in your case this is just an excuse for her to express insecurities in the relationship and is a form of a test to see if you'll stick up for yourself. And if you handle it right, then she won't bring it up again and it won't an issue.

 

Think about what makes sense to you. You don't think it's right for her to push her beliefs on you. She needs to understand this. If it hasn't sunk in with a normal conversation, then it's time to amp up the volume. This is about you living your life and not being toldt what to believe. Do not buy into her excuse.

[HellFrost666]

Sorry that my last reply turned into a slightly off subject rant, but in your situation I agree that her focusing on what you two have in common is a good thing, but if she doesn't see it as a good thing it is not helping your relationship at all.

 

You haven't been together that long, so hopefully she will come around and accept you for who you are. If she doesn't then dump her. I know that sounds harsh, but what is the point in being with somone who wants you to change?

 

If I was with someone who couldn't accept my beliefs I would drop them. I have been with my girlfriend for one year and three months, and we believe differently. But neither of us have a problem with that either.

[MacGyverRI]

What religions are ea of you? Is she in an Evangelical or Fundamentalist type church?

[Orlander]

Many Christians are told time after time not to yoke themselves to nonbelievers. I was in a very similiar situation that ultimately ended in our separation.

 

Some couples work it out and there is an understanding that love is the most important thing in a relationship.

Some couples dont work it out because one sees important differences instead of the commonalities.

 

I hope you work it out, roger and stay together. I wished everyone could just get along and see the similarities and that we are all connected.

 

Orlander

[roger]

What religions are ea of you? Is she in an Evangelical or Fundamentalist type church?

 

Well i was baptised a catholic, and i think she was too... But either of us practice, she doesnt go to church and doesnt believe in organise religion, this is mostly a personal faith for her. But she mostly has christian values.

 

I wished everyone could just get along and see the similarities and that we are all connected.

 

Orlander

 

I wish the same!

[MacGyverRI]

That actually makes it easier, agree to disagree or look into the main issues w/ ea. other.

 

If one of you was a Mormon, Jehovah, Evangelical or Fundamentalist you wouldn't have a chance since all of those "usually" recruit constantly.

[arwen]

I think the issue of how you two would want to raise children is a very relevant thing to discuss. It's hard now, but I think whatever the outcome, you will be thankful in retrospect that you had this discussion. I was raised by two evangelical parents but I'd call myself agnostic. My bf was raised by christian parents, and he's agnostic as well. My parents would of course LOVE to see me involved with a christian, but they are aware of my not-going-to-church and my reservations. But it took a while for them to accept that.

 

I think it's for SURE easier to have the same vision on life, belief, God. But keep in mind, I think very few couples would generally say that they agree on EVERYTHING. Religion is a big thing though. It's difficult to have one parent tell the kid to ask God for forgiveness because he or she sinned, and have the other deny that.

 

Ilse

[roger]

I think the issue of how you two would want to raise children is a very relevant thing to discuss.

 

I think it's for SURE easier to have the same vision on life, belief, God. But keep in mind, I think very few couples would generally say that they agree on EVERYTHING. Religion is a big thing though. It's difficult to have one parent tell the kid to ask God for forgiveness because he or she sinned, and have the other deny that.

 

Ilse

 

Good points. Maybe for her to find someone who shares her beliefs is the easy way? If i objectively ackowledge the existence of this God, maybe He put me in her path for a reason? Nothing is ever simple in life. She told me about her past relationships, and she's always been looking for "that man" the one who was meant to be. But of all the guys she was with, not one shared her beliefs. And i think she's been in abusive relationships, and that she also had trust issues with her pasts bf. So why spit on the good things we have?

/end rant

[Spugly Fuglet]

When some one has the *MEME infection of religion it act for the needs over thaw’s of its host creating the compulsion to make the host spared the *MEME so she will feel compelled to infect her own off spring this may be so strong a compulsion it will over ride the genetic and social compatibility, it’s a fight deep in here mind over who has power her self or the *MEME, you could try and brake the *MEME’s hold by shifting her Faith in that form of the religion but this can be dangerous as well as the *MEME will fight back and others with the same MEME infection around her will seek to discredit you can bolster the *MEME.

 

*MEME see

link removed

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also see some fun things MEMES can make you do

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Case in point will be the Posts after this by other such MEME infected who will try there best to fight any form of Inoculation

[roger]

Thanks everyone for your replies. Anyone else has any insights on that subject? Hearing other people's opinions is really helping me to cope with this...

[roger]

so it's been two days since we had this talk. she talked to me last night on msn and she still wasnt sure what she wanted... I told her i would give her more time.

 

I love her very much but now i'm beginning to think that if she hasn't been able to make up her mind yet it means that this faith thing is extremely important for her (most propably one of her highest pritority, even over love). So i'm thinking of breaking up with her, because its starting to be obvious that this issue would follow us and i can't handle the emotions rollercoster. But i really don't want to break up in a way, because we really had something going... Maybe it will make her think more about what she'll miss... What do you guys think?

[heloladies21]

So i'm thinking of breaking up with her, because its starting to be obvious that this issue would follow us and i can't handle the emotions rollercoster. But i really don't want to break up in a way, because we really had something going...

Wanting to break up with her is a natural reaction to something like this so you are justified for feeling this way.

 

Maybe it will make her think more about what she'll miss... What do you guys think?

But do not think this way as this amounts to psychological game playing when you do certain things in order to get a certain outcome. It doesn't work in the end and only serves to seal your doom. You have to be truly willing to walk away or else she'll see through it and discover you're a fake.

[roger]

But do not think this way as this amounts to psychological game playing when you do certain things in order to get a certain outcome. It doesn't work in the end and only serves to seal your doom. You have to be truly willing to walk away or else she'll see through it and discover you're a fake.

 

You're right and i hate psychological games but it seems that you can't escape them, everyone does them subconsciously... But i'm not a fake and i am truly willing to walk away, even though it makes me really sad and i still think we might have a little chance together. I just don't think that me waiting for her until she makes up her mind is the best solution either... (not knowing what's gonna happen also hurts a lot)

 

I just think that reaction might shake her and surprise her a bit and make her reconsider this whole issue... But if not, i'll walk away. For me this is just a last "nothing to lose" strategy...

 

thanks again for replying.

[Juliana]

The verse you talked about sending to her will backfire on you; Christians interpret that verse to apply to new converts who are already married. The stipulation on Christians not to marry non-believers is not contradicted by that verse.

 

However...the reality is, the whole issue of who Christians should marry is dealt with in the Bible as a new way of looking at how to treat people vs. an old way that we, as a culture, no longer have. When you talk about "living morally," you are talking about espousing Christian morals, aren't you? You aren't talking about living morally, meaning you're going to keep kosher and stay home and read your Torah. You don't mean that you're going to sacrifice to Mars and go have sex with temple prostitutes. So, no, she isn't faced with the difficulties of the actual people these verses were written to -- her husband to be already knows and understands and agrees with her morality.

 

One of my favourite things from the early church is a letter written by a Roman describing how strange the new religion was; it's followers didn't sleep around, they didn't set themselves apart from other people in the way they dressed, they didn't commit infanticide (expose their infants). Christianity has so shaped our world, we don't even remember anything else. But there was a time when it was very different, and new Christians suffered greatly marrying into the old, dying culture.

 

I think for her, the question is, and should be, how strong is your commitment to that inherited Christian morality? The Bible tells us that faith without works is dead; I would rather be with an honest agnostic who genuinely tries to follow Christian moral teaching, than a born-again skirt chaser who knows there's a god -- but that doesn't bother him any.

 

I married an atheist. Well, he's not an atheist anymore. Tell her that you are not going to change your beliefs for her sake, but that you will keep an open mind on the subject and make up your own mind about things. And express to her the importance you place on living according to Christian principles. If she can't see the value of that versus being with someone who can say the creed, but not follow the teachings, you shouldn't marry her anyway. Conversely, if you're intractable with regard to growing and considering other points of view, you should leave her in peace.

[roger]

We finally broke up. She was supposed to come pick up her sweather today but i couldnt wait all day for her (i had waited enough) so i showed up at her place around noon. She was all wet as she had just got out of the shower. I was going there to tell her i was breaking up cause i knew that faith issue was really important to her, even though it was really hard breaking for me to do so... But i still asked her if she had made her decision and she said yes. So i said its better we break up... She said yes. She said it was really hard because except of that faith thing, i was everything she wanted in a man... and i thought the same thing of her... We hugged a long time, cried a bit and i left.

[Spugly Fuglet]

I would say keep in tuch, this is not a NC situation you both felt it was for the best but still liked each other a lot, you also both come accross as very morral and strong will in a good personal way. She has her religion and you have your views but time can shift things, Give it soom time and see how you feel.

 

all the best.

[heloladies21]

Good, you did right. You're a bright kid. Now you can start the process of moving on.

 

And don't stay in touch, there's no point to it. Only a lot of false hope and a worse broken heart would greet you if you did. You said all you had to say.