What is Rape?

[Juliana]

It's interesting to note all the variations on what people feel rape is. Simply put, rape is non-consensual sex. We've had everything from rape being:

 

A). sex without consent obtained verbally and throughout the act

B). rape being what a "reasonable person" would consider it to be

C). sex that the perpetrator knows is against the will of the victim

 

In the latter case, of course, rape is only what the rapist defines it to be. Convenient for the rapist, not so good for their victims.

 

However, consider that some of the posters may come from areas where women have few legal rights, and laws against rape may be new to those societies. Those people do not understand a legal tradition that springs from a culture where women have had rights for hundreds of years. Both traditions will feel they are "right;" both will be sure they are occupying the moral high ground.

 

So, without expecting consensus of opinion, it is worth considering our personal idea of what rape is. Even within a single culture, there will be differences of opinion. For example, some people may feel that rape is impossible in a marital relationship; the battered wife in hospital with a perforated intestine would beg to differ. Can we imagine a man who uses sex to hurt his wife? Can we then agree that rape is possible within a marital situation?

 

I define rape for myself as sex that is non-consensual at any point in the act. For example, if I went in for a surgery, signed the papers, willingly went under the anaesthetic, and then the surgeon went to town on me and did all kinds of horrible things, he would be thrown in jail. If he removed the wrong organ, he would be again be liable. My consent to surgery did not imply consent to him doing whatever he wanted. My body was my own at all times during the surgery; thus, he didn't have the right to do whatever he wanted, and it was incumbent on him to obtain consent for the actual procedures he performed.

 

Similiarly, my consent to be in the same room with a man, does not imply consent to sex. In some cultures, it does. My consent to sleep in the same bed with a man does not imply consent to sex. To some people, it does. My consent to begin sex does not imply consent to finish, or do anything the other person wants; I have control over my body even then, and if my partner wants to do something I don't want to do, I have the right to say no. Even if I have already begun having sex.

 

Many people question, is it rape:

 

If you're compensated for it afterward, with money, gifts or favours?

If you're unconscious, and unable to feel anything or give/deny consent?

If you're married, or s/he's your boyfriend/girlfriend?

If you have had a prior sexual relationship with this person?

If you don't say no?

If you don't fight?

If you had an orgasm?

If the rapist is a woman and the victim a man?

 

For me, rape is that act that denies that we have the right to take control of what happens to us at all times. Consent is an on-going event, not a one-time thing. Consent to one act does not imply consent to others; many women who enjoy straight or vanilla sex would refuse to be tied up and gagged, or to engage in a threesome. We all, men and women, have the right to refuse, at any point, anything that we do not want.

 

I am taking personal rights to the furthest extreme in this regard, but ultimately, if anyone feels that they do not agree, and that they would happily cede control of their body to someone who would hurt them or debase them, that person may argue in good conscience with me.

[avman]

Before we get into this I'm going to let everyone know that opinions are to be stated respectfully and without getting personal. Posts that do not conform to this will be removed and other consequences may also result.

[Batya33]

I skimmed your post, Juliana and found myself nodding my head in agreement.

 

To me rape is non-consensual sex that involves sexual intercourse. Consent can be withheld at any point and once it is withheld, proceeding after that is rape (or at minimum, sexual assault). I agreed with your surgeon-patient analogy too. A person who is unconscious or incoherent cannot consent but it is not clear where I would draw the line. If a woman chooses to get drunk of course she does not thereby consent to sex as a consequence but there is a gray area where the accused rapist may believe that she consented because she said "yes" and the woman may believe she said "yes" in a drunken haze or some other form of "consent" but could not have known what she was consenting to.

 

I do not like any of the "she asked for it" theories including a woman who invites a man into her bed (that is not consent to intercourse in my opinion), a woman who dresses provocatively or flirts outrageously, etc. I do believe women have somewhat of an obligation to act in a safe manner - not to avoid it being "their fault" but even in the sense of giving thought to community resources and law enforcement.

 

So, if a woman does go back to a stranger's apartment, drunk, she does not ask for rape but she has to understand she will have a hard time proving whether the sex was consensual if there are no physical signs of injury. If a woman dresses provocatively and walks in a deserted area at 3AM she is putting herself at unnecessary risk for rape or violence and while I would not "blame the victim" I have to admit I would have less sympathy for her than for someone who was drugged in broad daylight at a coffee place by a man she had previously dated, and then raped (as happened to a friend of mine). Is that unfair? I don't know but it is how I feel. . . .

[sonjam]

Here in good old SA, our ex Deputy President got off for "raping" a girl - his defense was that she was wearing a short skirt, and didn't fight him off when he came to her room in the night to give her a back rub, because she was tense. he proceeded to rape her, with his wife in his own room, and took a shower - telling the public he did that because she is HIV positive, and this would help him not to get it.

 

It was a joke of a case, it was ultimately a “he said, she said”, and the judge could not prove beyond reasonable doubt that he DID indeed rape her (she also reported rapes 2 x previously and to my astonishment, jeopardized her credibility), so he was found not guilty.

 

It's just so strange to me how "laws" can be so different all over the world, but the acts against the victims are still the same. Where is the justice in that?

 

he ruined her life, because as far as his culture is concerned, wearing short skirts is "asking for it"... in his own words......

[Juliana]

Jokes on him, isn't it? Taking a shower is no prevention against HIV.

[sonjam]

That's right Juliana, if it were not for the fact that we are one of the countries with the highest HIV/Aids infection rate, it would have actually been funny! But he's enforcing wrong and poor education among the poor and rural communities here. They believe raping children or having sex with virgins will cure the disease. Then there is our health minister who believes it can be cured with beetroot, and garlic. She made a spectacle of us at the Word Aids Summit!

Anyway, back to the topic.

[sweetheart21]

because as far as his culture is concerned, wearing short skirts is "asking for it"

 

Yes! In Sydney (where I grew up) we had a lot of problems with girls being raped because "they asked for it".

 

Certain nationalities would rape girls and then say that Australian girls deserve it and are asking for it when they dress in short skirts. They really believed it because of the way they were brought up and the way the women dress in their countries.

 

It is very tricky to define it. Especially the part Juliana said 'is it rape if you dont say no?'

I recently read a book called The Tenth Circle by Jodi Picoult that was about that very issue. It was very interesting.

 

 

.