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Something suspicious is going on yet AGAIN... Young girls, etc. (Clean version!)


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You are too frustrated so all your anger went out under the influence of alcohol.

They say "in vino veritas". So now you can actually see how fed up you are with all this.

 

And you are not going to get a good picture of his behaviour the way you plan to do because you'll be suspicious about things that these girls tell you. The fact is you can't prove his inaproppriate behaviour.

 

What do I do then?? I am not that abusive violent person. I don't have the right to say anything about him now because I'm no better, I'm nearly worse (except I don't try to talk to guys behind his back.)

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What do I do then?? I am not that abusive violent person. I don't have the right to say anything about him now because I'm no better, I'm nearly worse (except I don't try to talk to guys behind his back.)

Yeah, and I figured out way before you wrote this answer why are you telling this story of you beeing aggressive to us - just to be able to say you're not better.

Don't go there with such lame excuses. I am not buying it. I updated my previous post I had something to add.

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I think you should get some professional help or counseling or at least see a religious advisor. Also consider whether you will be comfortable with a lifestyle of constantly checking up on your spouse - particularly if there are children involved down the road.

 

Am I evil though, am I as bad as you guys think he is, for what happened?? I feel crappy for doing it, I don't feel justified one bit even though he did what he did. I don't want to check up on someone for life, but something suspicious always happens. Always. And anything suspicious that occurs is magnified due to paranoia fuelled by past incidents.

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Him breaking things, disrespecting you and acting like a toddler throwing a fit is abuse. He is abusing you.

 

The fact that you got violent with him only shows me that you are very angry. You are so angry that its past the point of return.

 

If it gets violent, which is certainly is, even on one side..... where its now on both sides.................. its time to end the relationship.

 

No, you dont have a child... This is true...

 

Its only you. So even that cant be used as an excuse to stay. You have no children with him so what would be stopping you?

 

What will you do if you did become pregnant ???? You cant possibly want to have children with someone you can not even trust? Its a hard road to be a single mother. I been there and did that.

 

 

It all comes down to this, there's a lot of good in with the bad.

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Yeah, and I figured out way before you wrote this answer why are you telling this story of you beeing aggressive to us - just to be able to say you're not better.

Don't go there with such lame excuses. I am not buying it. I updated my previous post I had something to add.

 

I'm not telling you guys to be like "Oh, forgive him for anything he's done! For I am no better!"

 

It's because it's an interlinking problem and it bothers me. I'm also making the point that, everyone keeps saying he's going to hit me and be so physically abusive yet I am the one who went there that night. What does that say about me? I'm not using it as an excuse to stay because I think I am no better.

 

As for counseling, in this immediate area, there's no one offering free services. Like I said, I am going to have a decent paying job soon and will likely take your advice and get some counseling.

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I'm not telling you guys to be like "Oh, forgive him for anything he's done! For I am no better!"

 

It's because it's an interlinking problem and it bothers me. I'm also making the point that, everyone keeps saying he's going to hit me and be so physically abusive yet I am the one who went there that night. What does that say about me? I'm not using it as an excuse to stay because I think I am no better.

 

As for counseling, in this immediate area, there's no one offering free services. Like I said, I am going to have a decent paying job soon and will likely take your advice and get some counseling.

 

How about free counseling from a religious advisor, if that is appropriate?

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It's because it's an interlinking problem and it bothers me. I'm also making the point that, everyone keeps saying he's going to hit me and be so physically abusive yet I am the one who went there that night. What does that say about me?

 

 

What do you think, why you reacted the way you did?

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I'm not telling you guys to be like "Oh, forgive him for anything he's done! For I am no better!"

 

It's because it's an interlinking problem and it bothers me. I'm also making the point that, everyone keeps saying he's going to hit me and be so physically abusive yet I am the one who went there that night. What does that say about me? I'm not using it as an excuse to stay because I think I am no better.

 

As for counseling, in this immediate area, there's no one offering free services. Like I said, I am going to have a decent paying job soon and will likely take your advice and get some counseling.

 

I think your very angry because he treats you very badly.

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What do you think, why you reacted the way you did?

 

I'm not entirely sure, I don't even remember it. Most of the night I don't even remember, just some vague flashbacks here and there. I guess I think I reacted like that because I have a capacity for violence just like any psychotic abusive person. I think maybe the anger has built up and in a drunken state, felt he deserved it for his "crimes" and he never really has "paid" for them. This is my best guess, because I do feel he never really has paid for what he did. That doesn't mean I want to hit him, though.

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You are really making me appreciate my boyfriend more, you should dump that guys and figure yourself out to see why you would even want to be with such an untrustworthy person. I know relationships are hard and you have to work at them, but sometimes a relationship is just not worth it. Do you just want to get married or something because I don't see why you would put yourself through so much misery. Relationships are supposed to be more good than bad and yours just seems to be all bad. Look at how much you have to post all the time. I feel really bad for you girl!

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Hiya Kitty, I should have checked the forum before my last PM to you!

 

I don't have anything to add really re the first few pages of your post, and you know what I think about your situation in general so I won't harp on about my usual stuff re getting away for some headspace etc.

 

But from what you've said, I think:

 

(a) There may or may not have been something going on with your guy in the store with the young girlies - I think your radar is hyper sensitive to this issue and so you are being particularly observant of behaviour that may be 'normal' for some people, as a previous poster said (ie they said it was normal). However, I personally think that a 26 year old doesn't have weird stuff like this happening, and that his fiancee is not kept out of the loop about something so apparently minor (no pun) as a genuinely harmless 'you're an removed by moderator>' conversation. If there is truly nothing to worry about you would not be worrying like this, and your guy wouldn't be avoiding younger girls, being called names, or lying to you.

 

You have said before that him cheating or chatting up other women, particularly the young ones, would be a dealbreaker. Why don't you go back to the shop soon, alone, and find that girl? Make it look like you're dropping in for shampoo or something, and just happen to nicely ask her what she meant. You could be particularly disingenuous and say that you hope your boyfriend (do NOT say fiance, it might stop her from telling you the truth if it's negative and she thinks you're in deep with him) has been behaving himself because you sometimes think he can be a bit out of order.....Then smile, and stay quiet, see what she says.

 

 

(b) I do not condone violence, but I do completely understand your outburst on NYE. And yes, maybe we're being tolerant of violence from YOU not him, because we like you and see your side of things, not his. Maybe there is an element of double standard there, but there you go. But it's more than that. I can also relate - I can completely imagine the same thing happening to me if I was in your situation. But don't go punishing yourself for this - this stuff happens. He is not bruised, and he seems to have been sent a message by you that it's all okay and you're deeply sorry. You are not bad, you are not evil, you are just frustrated and resentful, and it's screamingly obvious why you would feel that way. And there is definitely a difference between a once-off venting when extremely drunk versus a constant pattern of breakage. I would forget this if I was you - move on.

 

I also think that southerngirl's post, number 44 on this thread, is confronting, and a compelling story for you to read, re-read, and read again. Note particularly the part about how her ex didn't start hitting her until they were married.

 

I can't avoid a lecturing tone here, sorry, but I would advocate that you do not use sex to apologise for behaviours. I can see why you would do it, and I think i have probably done it myself, but no wonder you are confused. You are using intimacy and bonding in a way that will wallpaper over all the bad stuff, rather than dealing with it outright. Kitty, you had every right to get angry!

 

I also think that the fact you did this shows how deeply attached you really are, so I won't tell you to leave him again. This behaviour smacks of someone who is really afraid of losing the other person. Your outburst could have gone the other way you know, the next day could have turned into the conversation you needed to have about appropriate and inappropriate behaviour from BOTH of you. It could have turned into something more constructive where in explaining your outburst you could have been much more forthcoming about your concerns. Not that that necessarily would have resolved your problems but it might have been less confusing to you both in the long run.

 

On a related theme - when he is all super nice to you, how related to his bad behaviour is it? Do you think that he does the same thing to you, that is, realises he's behaved badly and that you shouldn't stay, and so sucks up to you to make sure you don't leave? If that is indeed what he does, does that change your perception of how sincere and great he is?

 

Mantra for Kitty (to be said every morning and night):

- Good relationships do not require you to make excuses for the other person's behaviour or engage in magical thinking to stay in the relationship.

- Good relationships are not about serious mistrust or violent behaviour of any type. These are the hallmarks of a bad relationship.

- Good relationships certainly exist, and they are not only for perfect or special people.

- I (Kitty) deserve a good relationship.

- I WILL find someone who is a great fit for me, and who will love me as I want to be loved.

 

Hey, re-read your last PM to me.

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I am just making a guess here: I think deep down you know you should leave and you probably will eventually leave him. If you really didn't want to leave him, you'd probably turn a blind eye to the shady stuff he seems to be doing with girls and find ways to call yourself paranoid. But instead, you are searching for signs that he's cheating so you can have a real excuse to leave. Am I way, way off?

 

I think all this flirting is probably based in low self-esteem. My most recent ex was constantly seeking attention from other women so he could feel more sexy and desirable. Would he have actually cheated? Probably not. But his need for validation from other women was more important to him than the pain it caused me. Next time, I will find a man whose self-esteem is high enough that he doesn't need to flirt, or at least someone who gets his self-esteem boost in ways that I don't find offensive.

 

Good luck, and don't stop posting. Eventually you will iron this all out.

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You are really making me appreciate my boyfriend more, you should dump that guys and figure yourself out to see why you would even want to be with such an untrustworthy person. I know relationships are hard and you have to work at them, but sometimes a relationship is just not worth it. Do you just want to get married or something because I don't see why you would put yourself through so much misery. Relationships are supposed to be more good than bad and yours just seems to be all bad. Look at how much you have to post all the time. I feel really bad for you girl!

 

I was just saying to him earlier, when we were "discussing" things- mainly because I was angry at him again today for seemingly no reason, but it's really because of everything that's happened that I can't let go of- that it sometime seems like there's more good things than bad in this relationship. I agree with you, relationships should be more good than bad and sometimes it seems mine is all bad. He tried to state reasons as to why our relationship is so good, like we have fun together, laugh together, etc. But the main source of "bad" is all the negative feelings towards everything that happened and it will not go away. Not a good thing, at all.

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I said that same thing to him, a guy doesn't have weird stuff like this just 'happening'- especially with such a past history of incidents. Urrrrgrh, I'm so sick of worrying, you guys wouldn't believe how sick of worrying I am. I shouldn't have to worry in a good relationship.

 

I'm definitely going to investigate the entire situation, he's told me "go ahead and talk to that girl, talk to all of them, you'll see, there's nothing going on!!" Heh, but haven't I heard such things before from him? That's a great idea, what you suggested for me to do when I go into the store. "Do not say fiance, it might stop her from telling you the truth if it's negative and she thinks you're in deep with him." Didn't even think of it like that but I certainly should have. Particularly because when he put her on the spot in the store, by saying "have I been hitting on you? Tell her I haven't been hitting on you", she instantly agreed and nodded her head vigorously. Probably to avoid conflict and the possible loss of her job. But if I follow your approach, I will definitely get the truth from her. Which is what I want!

 

I too thought Southerngirl's post was a good one. I have definitely kept it in mind.

 

I know I shouldn't have used sex as a way to apologize but I didn't know what else to do, he wouldn't shut up about how bad he felt, and it made me feel like a bad person. I wasn't sure what else to do about the situation. I felt like an abuser.

 

I wish that sort of conversation could be had, but when someone seems to constantly lie or say what you want to hear, it's hard to have a straight-up honest conversation. I was thinking today, I will never really know the truth about anything, it's all in his head. And I'll never know when to believe him or when to not. And I'll always be suspicious, even if he is being honest about something.

 

I definitely think that yes, when he's being all nice and sucking up and stuff that it's definitely related to his bad behavior, and is a means of manipulating me to stay. I've even said as much to him, but he of course denies it. But it's a definite pattern.

 

 

- Good relationships do not require you to make excuses for the other person's behaviour or engage in magical thinking to stay in the relationship.

- Good relationships are not about serious mistrust or violent behaviour of any type. These are the hallmarks of a bad relationship.

- Good relationships certainly exist, and they are not only for perfect or special people.

- I (Kitty) deserve a good relationship.

- I WILL find someone who is a great fit for me, and who will love me as I want to be loved.

 

*saying my mantra* It would be great, however unrealistic, if this relationship went uphill instead of even further down, and we could work all the problems out, so that it meets the standards in the mantra.

 

I read the PM again, I don't know how that one day I was all sure of what I was going to do and then now I'm all undecided/confused/not wanting to go/but at the same time wanting to .. it sucks. I really contradict myself all of the time. I don't know why. I am stressed. And it sucks.

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My serotonin levels are low, low low, people, I always have the worst PMS known to man. Horrific mood swings, depression, even worse anxiety than I usually have, general irritability, and all-around insecurities.

 

Always during this time the problems in my relationship are even more emphasized than normal. It sucks.

 

And if I use the word 'sucks' one more time, please ban me. Ban me from this website or delete all my posts.

 

Nah, please don't, but really though. I must find a better word than "sucks" to describe things.

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You might be on to something there.

 

I agree that the flirting is based on low self esteem. My fiance definitely has low self esteem, from childhood traumas/issues. He acts overly confident, cocky, and arrogant to compensate for it, and as a shield/cover. So I can definitely imagine him needing validation from other women (or in his case, girls) because all of his life he's wanted/needed validation from other people in general. He often wants validation from me. One would think it's enough, to be validated by one's significant other, but when you're dealing with someone who feels inferior then it's often not enough.

 

Good luck to you as well, I hope you do find a real man who doesn't need to hurt you to boost his self-esteem.

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Hiya Kitty,

 

I just finished reading this thread, sorry for catching up so late! First of all, I think you are not a bad person for what happened on NYE. I think if anything it shows how frustrated and angry you are about this situation. Alcohol lowers your inhibitions, and you said things you would normally just bottle up towards him or only share with friends or here on ENA. In a way I think it's a good things that you had this outburst.

 

I think there is one basic issue that we also discussed in the past, that is still relevant here. With ALL that is happening here, the past of your bf, his actions even apart from the alledged flirting with underage girls (referring to his rude behaviour when he has to wait in the mall). This issue is the question why you are still finding yourself in THIS type of commitment with this man.

 

Another issue is that I think this man has serious issues with impulse control. Your description makes me think of men I saw on Dr. Phil, and sorry to say, these were abusive men. Has he ever been in therapy? A friend of mine was in a long term relationship (also living together for a long time) with a man who had a personality disorder (borderliner). This might be something to think about; but realize you cannot HEAL or CHANGE him. The validation your man is looking for needs to be 'internally realized'.

 

Arwen (ilse)

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Oh my god. I am sho-ooocked. I just looked up Borderline personality disorder online because though I've heard of it, I didn't know what it was. I am shocked. It ALL sounds like him, to the T.

 

 

Wow Arwen, I think you're right. Obviously you've taken pyschology or something. And know what, if I remember correctly, he sort of mentioned something a while back about a therapist saying he had 'borderline' disorder or something but he later recanted it. I think that's what he said anyway. We were online looking at personality disorder quizzes (weird I know, but just for fun because we were bored) and he sort of said something like that.

 

So, it would make all the sense in the world.

 

Points which coincide with the description of borderline disorder:

 

* The "intense but stormy" attachment he has to me, in which he goes through extreme alternating phases of idealization (in which he acts like I'm on a pedestal, which he often does) and then the phases of devaluation ("you don't care about me, do you!" and etc)

 

* The freakouts at the thought of abandonment (even if I just want to go to the store with a friend)

 

* risky sex (why else would he have accidentally gotten a girl pregnant a few years ago) and why else does he not want me to get on the pill but doesn't want to wear a condom

 

* paranoia

 

*angry outbursts

 

*affective instability

 

*impulsivity

 

*abandonment fears. Quote: "Individuals with BPD can be highly sensitive to rejection -- for example, reacting with distress or anger to separations. This can occur with family members, health professionals and friends, as well as partners. These fears of abandonment may be related to difficulties feeling emotionally connected to important persons when they are physically absent, leaving the individual with BPD feeling lost and perhaps worthless. Suicide attempts or self-injury may occur along with anger at perceived abandonment and disappointments. Ironically, the desperate clinging to other people can serve as the catalyst for conflict that drives others away."

 

He acts hugely distressed if I go ANYWHERE with any of my friends, so I rarely ever do. Once I went with my best friend to the store to get a simple beer and went to the park so we could chat, girl to girl, like friends need to do sometime, and he called her cellphone 35 times. Yes, 35 times. At first I answered and he kept saying "what are you doing? When are you coming back??? I don't understand why you had to go.." and blah blah, eventually I stopped answering. Everytime I would return he'd be worried. Once I got mad at him and spent the night at a friend's house, and he called a million times. He told me that the entire time he sat on the couch and cried (in between calling my friend's house a million times!)

 

Maybe this is why his wife left, because he kept clinging to her desperately and wouldn't stop. Supposedly she made a claim that he threatened to drown himself, the night she left. He denies it, but I think it's true. I think he was just as desperately attached to her as he is to me, and made the same claims of 'everlasting love' and so on, and then if she did anything he percieved as wrong, he started raging and saying "you don't care about me," blah blah. He tries to claim he was never like that with her, and only loves "me" like that, but pfffft, c',mon I am not stupid, all of that crazy stuff wouldn't of happened between them if he didn't act the same way he does with me!

 

 

*identity disturbance (maybe that's why he's done the most idiotic of things because his friends did, or because he was trying to impress them, because he at times has no sense of self). Also, maybe that's why he tries so hard to act like his friends or changes his personality around certain people, like his voice even changes and such..

 

*he definitely has the history of relationship instability, with me and also the estranged wife, domestic violence galore

 

* And he has made some suicide threats before, but mainly to get attention

 

* mood dysphoria

 

* Transient, stress related paranoid ideation FO' SHO (Heh)

 

* Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger, frequent displays of temper

 

* (this is quoted word for word): "Dissociative episodes, where the person may experience visual or auditory hallucinations, or become disoriented or experience depersonalization, occur generally in the context of hyperarousal , either through extreme emotion or anxiety. These generally last no more than a few minutes but may occasionally occur over hours or days. Aggressive, self harming or potentially dangerous behaviors may occur during these episodes."

 

Dissociation is also known as "splitting" from one's psyche- and that would explain how such a nice/sweet gentle guy with a good heart can go from loving to raging psychotic. One "splits" from their good psyche and acts completely dissociated, not themselves at all.

 

He definitely becomes disorientated when this happens. He once claimed he 'blanks out' when this happens but I'm not sure I completely believe that. I believe it's more like he experiences complete depersonalization, acting in a way that's not like him at all.

 

* Emotion dysregulation- extreme black and white thinking, never any gray area in between- (this is sooo him)

 

* Another quote is as follows: ""As a consequence of difficulties with emotional regulation (i.e., emotional dysregulation) and maintaining some social boundaries, people with BPD can sometimes make rapid and seemingly deep connections with others, marked by unrealistically high levels of mutual admiration. When very open and in need of reassurance and love, they can sometimes overwhelm others with praise, attention and intimacy"."

 

Yes, so true, he pretty much INSTANTLY got attached to me within the first month we were seeing eachother. He would not stop calling me a million times a day and was claiming he was in love with me by month two. He puts me on a pedestal, too, and does overwhelm me with attention. He definitely needs reassurance and love.

 

"They can also feel overwhelmed by others, or be taken advantage of. Due to the inherent instability of such relationships, and unresolved issues for the person with BPD (particularly in matters of trust and self-worth), they are prone to react strongly to apparent slights and reverse their over-positive view. This can be experienced by others as unexpected hostility or betrayal, and can also be confusing and painful for the person with BPD.

 

He is taken advantage by people a lot, (though honestly, he does the same to others as well, manipulative being that he is). He does react strongly to apparent 'slights' and then starts accusing me of starting stuff with him, and etc etc. And I do look at it as unexpected hostility. And yes I think he's confused.

 

* It also said they have an inability to control themselves when doing certain things, such as crying (he is a crier, and it's strange, because it often occurs during what I call his mental 'meltdowns'), and hugging/kissing blah blah, well sometimes he will try to hug me if he thinks things are going to end and I'm going to abandon him and he will not let me go.

 

* It says people with borderline personality disorder often are self-destructive, and often self mutilate. He doesn't do that, but I think he's self-destructive in other ways. If he's anxious/worried he will refuse to eat, and the website I got my info from said that's a typical sign. If he becomes angry he will drive like a madman and put himself and people in harm's way. When he is raging, he will punch walls and potentially harm himself. It said people who are self-destructive will remain in a abusive relationship, well he was in an abusive relationship with his wife (she was arrested for domestic violence) and he still kept letting her come back to the home. She is the one who left in the end. Probably sick of the crazy stuff. He would still be with her today if she hadn't of left. And I suspect he was just as "attached" to her as he is to me, because an ex gf of his that I know said she had to break up with him because he got too 'attached' and kept calling her a million times at work and she nearly lost her job. It's more like, he doesn't love the individual for the individual, but loves them because he becomes instantly severely attached to whoever is showing him attention, and so, it could be anyone, anyone at all. I've thought of that theory for awhile now, so it does make sense in correlation with the borderline personality disorder theory. But that kind of makes me think, okay, well I'm not that special, if we broke up tomorrow, the next time another girl shows him attention, he'll instantly be attached to her and "in love" and will forget about me. How um, cute. Not.

 

* It said people with this disorder often have other disorders comorbid with the borderline disorder. Such as anxiety & depression, which he does. He's thrown up blood before due to anxiety. He has depression. He was given medication for such things but stopped taking it a long while ago because he "can't swallow pills."

 

* Another direct quote: "Adults with BPD are also considerably more likely to be the victim of violence, including rape and other crimes. This may be the result of vulnerabilities resulting from BPD (e.g., willingness to tolerate unsafe environments to avoid abandonment, tendency to form intense relationships) as well as impulsivity and poor judgment in choosing partners and lifestyles".

 

He tolerated an unsafe environment with his wife, even though she was abusive to their child, obviously to avoid abandonment. He didn't do anything about my outburst on NYE, which wouldn't be good if I was like her, (which I'm not.) But if I was, I could just continue to abuse him in such a way and he'd never do anything about it, he'd just tolerate it to avoid me leaving him. He definitely had poor judgment in choosing certain partners. He certainly had poor judgment in doing what he did, (hitting on that 14 year old girl because his friend pressured him to.) He told me last night that he has poor judgment, coincidentally, and that's why he couldn't tell how "young" she was. Still not an excuse however. I think the poor judgment is more connected with his stupidity of commiting such an act in the first place.

 

Quote: "Anger, impulsivity, and poor judgment may also explain why people with BPD are more likely than average to be arrested for and convicted of crimes ranging from petty theft to murder. A person with BPD can be marginalized by society because of the moods and behaviors.

 

He's been arrested 35 times for petty crimes and been to jail a few times. Nothing major like murder, of course, or violence towards anyone, or anything dealing with minor girls (though quite frankly, I am surprised.). He hasn't been arrested in 5 years or so, he did straighten himself out, but that would explain the arrests.

 

 

* More convincing, it said childhood abuse and neglect is correlated to development of borderline personality disorder. People who have been abused & abandoned are at higher risk for developing it. He was abused and his father abandoned him and his family often, for months and even years at a time, only to return for awhile and then do the same again. It all makes sense.

 

 

* They described various things used to treat borderline disorder, and antipsychotics & antidepressants were one of them. He was on BOTH, but told me the antipsychotics weren't because he's psychotic or schizo or anything, but because it helps to treat depression too. I don't belieeeeve that, why give someone two different medications for depression, when one of a higher dose will suffice? I know that antipsychotics also treat mood disorders, and borderline disorder is a mood disorder.. hmmm. I'm starting to think he has been diagnosed with this, and I'm not mistaken when he said a therapist said that he had it..

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The only thing that does not correspond with my fiance is this one quote:

 

are also usually unable to control their sexualities. Rather than deciding whether they are hetrosexual, homosexual or bisexual, they often change their minds between the three, resulting in ignored feelings, confused emotions and an overactive imagination which usually makes the situation worse for them."

 

As far as I know, he is completely heterosexual and always has been.. . but I guess that doesn't have to apply to all those with borderline disorder.

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