emotional affair??

[lostnpain]

my wifes of course...and there was never a choice to be made...

 

yes...my marriage is ending b/c i became friends with this girl and had long conversations while my wife was away for training..you pretty much got it..

[Beec]

I would not move out, but I might simply begin being more aloof. And if she complains, tell her it's because of how she has treated you.

[lostnpain]

that sounds better...thx

[Juliana]

Well then you need to be very clear with the counsellor, your wife, and everyone who even tangentially is involved in this situation that there was no affair. You're being falsely accused, and going along with it is making everything much worse.

 

Nowadays it's like everyone thinks everything is about having sex or cheating on the spouse. God have mercy, what's next. We'll get chipped at the altar?

[heartlessromantic]

I don't think it's fair to react so strongly against what his wife is feeling. If the relationship was great beforehand, then the wife must have been really hurt by it. It is hard to be idealistic and think everything is so great and then to be blindsided by something.

 

Fine. Say all you want about your intentions (there were none) and all that, but how does it look to the wife??? The first time she is away for an extended period of time, she is confronted with a situation that doesn't look all that good. The whole idea of trust is so that you can feel comfortable when you're NOT with your spouse.

 

Just because one person has a good marriage with lots of male friends and a husband that doesn't care does not mean everybody else's marriage works the same way or that everybody feels the same. Nobody gets married thinking they're going to cheat or get involved with somebody else.

 

The OP even said that he felt a void when his wife left and that his friend filled a void. THAT is the first step towards real infidelity. I agree that he didn't do anything and maybe that never even crossed his mind, but "we're just friends" only rings true if you are aware of boundaries and know when to draw the line. Too many things happen under the guise of friendship.

 

If you are having conversations or acting in a way that you would not feel comfortable about your spouse seeing, then maybe it's time to stop and think about what's going on.

 

The reason she is upset is because you probably should have taken stronger steps to protect the relationship. It's good that nothing too deep happened, but it did not look good. Just because no actual affair happened doesn't mean she should not be upset. That's ridiculous! So we're not allowed to be upset until an affair is consummated?

 

I do agree, however, that your wife needs to be ready to forgive you and at least start on the path to healing. She is not helping things by holding this over you.

[Juliana]

"So we're not allowed to be upset until an affair is consummated?"

 

Yes! That's it exactly! We're not allowed to be upset about our spouse having an affair, until they have an affair! Friendships are not affairs.

 

Insecurity and suspicion cannot be allowed a foothold in a marriage. If something looks like something suspicious, fine; it does. But if it wasn't that thing that it looked like, why should the other partner be dragged through the lower reaches of h*ll to make up for the hurt feelings of the other, when there are no grounds for that person to actually be hurt?

 

Having friends does fill a void; it does not constitute the beginning of an affair. Unless I'm a big lesbian, and never knew it.

[heartlessromantic]

So the wife goes away for a few months - the first extended time apart - and finds out that her husband has a woman over, someone I presume she has never met, and he is comforting this woman about her bad relationship. You're telling me that doesn't look the least bit suspicious?

 

I have to disagree with you. I think it's fair for a spouse to raise concerns. I think that OP's wife has carried things too far to the point of damaging the relationship even more, but I don't think it is out of line for a spouse to raise concerns if he/she believes a friendship isn't exactly that or if he/she believes somebody has ulterior motives. If it doesn't turn into an inquisition, I think being able to raise these kinds of concerns is a sign of good communication. I think something like a marriage is fragile enough and it takes vigilance and work to keep the fire burning bright.

 

I have had these feelings in the past and though my girlfriends were sometimes annoyed that I pointed it out, I was ALWAYS RIGHT. I even let my girlfriends hang out with guys I knew didn't have totally platonic intentions. But it bothers me sometimes how naive women can be to the whole "just friends" thing. Guess what? Many guys use it as a cover to get close to a girl.

 

Personally, if I was in a relationship, I wouldn't feel comfortable being friends with somebody that I knew had designs on me, just out of respect for my girlfriend or spouse. I can make enough friends that I don't need to hang onto every one, but that's just me.

[Juliana]

Raise concerns, fine. Threaten divorce, no. And this guy has said over and over, there was nothing there. Unless someone's planning to attack him, it only matters what his feelings are.

[lostnpain]

Juliana I would have been livid if another man was in my house and she was having long conversations while I was gone..i do understand that but I know i would have gotten past this already. im glad to see im not crazy there..

[lostnpain]

hearltess I dont blame her for feeling the way she is feeling nor am i questioning it.. I want her to get over it. i want her to understand and realize nothing happened but she wont..

[heartlessromantic]

lostnpain -

 

I agree with you in that I think your wife needs to allow herself the opportunity to heal and to try and forgive you.

 

What is the current status? Do you two still go to counseling?

 

I know nothing actually happened but perhaps you two can try reading this book together?

 

link removed

[lostnpain]

the current status is we still go to counseling. we go once a week so this will be our 4th session next week.

 

she feels uncomfortable when i hug her, hold her had or try to kiss her so I dont. We are in a state of limbo I guess.

[Juliana]

My husband & I talked about this and he raises an interesting point:

 

Here she is in a male-dominated field of the armed services, the Coast Guard. She went away on training for four months; did she just sit on her cot for four months pining over her husband? Or did she go out with her classmates and have few beers, and get to know them? Her career choice puts her eight hours on a boat with men, and they probably will want to socialize and get to know each other, but somehow it's totally unacceptable for him to socialize with his co-workers? Does she see every friendship as having a sexual element? If so, then that is her experience. Which means that her classmates have been hitting on her.

[lostnpain]

Your husband brings up a good point..

 

she was not on a boat but she did go out with her classmates and have a few beers. she did tell me when she went out. she did tell me when she was hit on. and she did also tell me she made it a point not to be alone with the person or people that hit on her.

[Juliana]

My husband's a genius. I think more specifically what he and I are wondering about is projection; is it possible that she found one or more of those people attractive, panicked at the prospect of messing up her relationship with you, and felt so guilty that she had to turn around and blame you or accuse you of doing the same thing? Cause this is a crazy overreaction, and maybe it's just me, but I can't believe your behaviour could have prompted all this. It just seems too odd to me.

 

Have her experiences away at training come up in the counselling sessions?

[heartlessromantic]

lostnpain - Honestly, it sounds like you guys have a pretty good relationship with openness and trust. I hope you are able to work things out.

 

juliana's husband brings up a good counterpoint but it sounds like your wife takes appropriate steps to establish boundaries given the circumstances.

[lostnpain]

Julian her experience have not come up yet.

 

I thought of and am starting to believe exactly that. I am starting to think when she found out about this girl she went out and found comfort with someone else...now she feels so bad about what happened that she doesnt know what the hell to do and that she is hanging on to this and not letting go.

 

Funny how we are thinking almost the same thing..

[caro33]

Hi lostnpain, sorry I have come late to your thread, and I may well repeat what has been said to this point by accident, but I am interested to know:

 

- what makes you believe you were having an emotional affair?

- what makes your wife think you were having one? Is it that you talked with the co-worker and had her over, or is there also something else your wife has said?

- has your wife met this co-worker? Does your wife have a view that she's expressed re the co-worker being your 'type' - anything like that?

- has there absolutely never been any history between you guys, ever, of someone not policing the relationship boundaries and the other getting upset?

- is the behaviour you exhibited of making friends, talking to women (however platonic) a new thing for you? has your wife seen you bond with a woman other than her before?

[Rabican]

Ya know im normally a real scrooge when it comes to these things. I get mad as hell at some of the posts I see on here when it comes to people cheating, acting like a tramp and walking on their SO... why cant people just be decent...

Anyways, I dont get that impression at all from your post. You sound like you may have been a little naive, but certainly not doing anything wholely immoral... no cheating etc.

 

I honestly wouldnt even really call this an emotional affair really.... no excessive flirting, you arent expressing any kind of feelings to her etc. matter of fact the only thing you did wrong in my book was invite her over. Friends of the opposite sex shouldnt be behind closed doors together unless the spouse is entirely aware, and ok with the situation.

 

Work on fixing it, but dont beat yourself up too much. I dont think you had any evil or selfish intentions with this situation...

[Juliana]

I wouldn't assume she's done anything yet. Innocent til proven guilty, right? Extend to her the same considerations you would wish extended to yourself, and let her tell the story of what went on.

 

But yes, I think the next place you guys need to go in your counselling would be to her experiences at training camp. And I think you need to stand up for yourself and make it clear to your wife you never had any romantic feelings for this other person, at all.

[lostnpain]

Carro to answer your questions:

 

- what makes you believe you were having an emotional affair? i did some reading on the web and 60% of what i found said if you feel comfortable talking to this person, have long conversations, deepdown have physical attraction, one or both of you confide in each other then thats what it is...my initial view of an EA was when two peoples friendship goes beyond friendship and emotions get involved and you start wanting to be with this person more than your partner..

 

- what makes your wife think you were having one? Is it that you talked with the co-worker and had her over, or is there also something else your wife has said? yes that i spoke to her so often while she was gone.

 

- has your wife met this co-worker? Does your wife have a view that she's expressed re the co-worker being your 'type' - anything like that? they have never met. i invited her and other workers to the party i threw my wife but not one came. and she says why didnt she come..if we were wsuch good friend she should have come..that means there was something else going on..

 

 

- has there absolutely never been any history between you guys, ever, of someone not policing the relationship boundaries and the other getting upset? no never..

 

- is the behaviour you exhibited of making friends, talking to women (however platonic) a new thing for you? has your wife seen you bond with a woman other than her before? yes to this extent. I have other female friends but conversations never took place so often and for so long. She knows all my other friends (like 3). its not like i didnt want them to meet..i invited her over, if she didnt come whos fault is that..

[caro33]

I think I end up agreeing with the other posters then lostnpain, it sounds like she's had a shock, but that she might be overreacting.

 

I do not agree that you have had a emotional affair. From my reading of EAs they are typified by a desire to share with that person MORE than with your current partner. Or at the same level. If your wife had been available and you would have gone like a shot to spend time and bond with her over this co-worker, then I would not buy in to this being an EA.

 

I wonder if you agreeing it was an EA, after saying it wasn't, has helped make this more problematic for your wife. I can imagine if it was me, I would view that turn of events as you being in denial to start with, or lying to me, and then admitting that 'yes the other woman did constitute some threat'. I mean, that's what we are talking about here isn't it - the difference between a real threat and a misunderstanding. With the underwear being found on top of all that, no wonder your wife doesn't know how to evolve this - she doesn't know what your next admission will be.

 

Now I'm not saying this is all your fault, but I can see why she might be struggling to move on. I seriously advise you do whatever possible to explain to her that you have been confused about what an EA actually is. Check her understanding of it. Explain to her that you were not even close to committing emotional infidelity. Her position in your lfe was NEVER in jeopardy. Have your cousin call her to explain about the underwear, have your wife go to her house and SEE the rest of the collection, look in the whites of your cousin's eyes and see that she's not lying. I know that sounds extreme, but until your wife is convinced you are not lying I can't see how she's going to move forward.

 

If I was her I would need to feel safe and secure that there would be no more surprises. I would need to know that the underwear was absolutely not another woman's (that is, a relationship threat). I would need to know that you never ever meant to take things anywhere with the co-worker, and more specifically, that the co-worker was never in any way competition for me. I would need you to be absolutely clear that you realise that you were a little naive with the situations you put yourself in, but that you never had feelings for that woman. Your admitting to an EA, even with the best of intentions, takes this into another realm that you need to get it away from.

 

I also think that if there's been no evolution of this issue over all that counselling except for you to take blame for more damaging stuff than what happened, it's worth trying another counsellor.

[lostnpain]

I just told her about me agreeing to her point of view on Friday and I am still not 100% sure that it was an EA. This is one of those things that is a point of view more than a fact. So I now see her point of view...does this make sense??

When I told her I see her point of view and understand where she is coming from seeing it that way i tried explaining to her that there still was never a threat because there were no feelings there..she feels like she was replaced and the fact is that she was replaced in that time with this girl becuase she WAS NOT HERE and I found someone to talk to....but like you said if she would have been here then I would not have done this. So its not like i want to be with this girl more than i do with my wife..

 

Ive tried having her talk to my cousin and she wont have it.

 

Im starting to get very tired of all this..I really am.

[caro33]

It must be draining, but it's draining for her also no doubt. So there has to be a way to kickstart some progress beyond the blame game etc.

 

If this has been going on 2 months and you only said you saw her point of view a few days ago that also sheds light on to how this is taking a while. Maybe she just didn't 'hear' that you saw where she was coming from before then, I don't know. I would probably be angry for a while if I saw my husband do things that looked dubious and he didn't seem to take my feelings into account or acknowledge the situation. I'm not saying that's what's happened here but the timeframes suggest it. At least you're empathising now.

 

I guess if I was you there would be a script I would stick to:

 

* You are very sorry for hurting her, it was absolutely not your intent. If you had known it would have hurt her you woudn't have pursued the friendship quite as you did (ie no alone at home etc).

* However this was not about her, it was about you being alone and providing some assistance to a new friend. The two relationships are completely mutually compatible and the co-worker friendship was never a threat.

* You would never allow something to threaten the relationship, ever.

* For that reason, while you see her perspective, you cannot agree this was an emotional affair. Perhaps that's how it looked, but that is not the reality.

* You now understand your wife's perspective on this and the potential dangers of opening up too much to a close relationship with the opposite sex. While you want friendships, and will have them, you will conduct yourself more carefully now.

 

I realise that's what you've been saying to some degree, but my advice is to stick to it. Stick to those points, no diverging, no taking other people's emotional language and using it to describe what you did (ie the reality not the perception) if you are not 100% sure it's appropriate.

 

If she's never been a drama queen before then have hope she moves past this. But she's had a shock, and all you need to do is read the threads in this forum to see that affairs start out exactly as you described your friendship with this woman. Your wife is in her own world of 'what ifs' right now and she's not so sure it's all hypothetical. That's without even addressing her experience at training.

 

Hang in there, I'm sure she's worth it. These blips happen.

[lostnpain]

Caro33 -

 

The thing is thats exactly the truth and what I've been saying all along to her but she's not having it...

I really appreciate everyones advice on here...its really made me feel better better beleie it or not...

 

Im traveling this week and have minimal contact with my wife if any. Lets see what happens when I get back. I spoke to her today and its like nothing. It doesnt even seem that she misses me or even cares that Im gone. That really gets to me...