Is it abuse or is it my fault?

[Tylin]

He should not be blaming you for his actions, no matter how you react to his conflict. We are all responsible for our actions and he is giving you excuses.

 

Think of it this way: he knows he has a problem and he knows it hurts you. And instead of taking responsibility for his actions and trying to make things better (ie: therapy, medication, anger management classes, etc), he keeps blaming you. I ran into the same thing-- mine wants me to change my reactions to him. He wants me to act like his mother in her abusive relationship: let him say whatever he wants, get as angry as he wants, and I should never confront him about it even if I'm feeling angry or hurt over it. He is making his actions my responsibility and so he is not willing to make the changes it takes to stop the cycle.

 

I know that if I had anger problems that hurt my loved ones, I would do everything in my power to stop hurting them. I ask myself, why won't my husband do the same for me? That is not love, and that is why I have to leave.

[hosswhispra]

Tempers aren't something you can simply turn on and off.

 

UGH!!

 

Your husband has a choice on how he reacts.

 

Again he's making excuses for his ABUSIVE behavior and not taking responsibility for his ABUSIVE behavior--he is extremely manipulative, by trying to blame you. Typical of an abuser....won't take responsibility for his own action/reaction.

[Beyondthesea]

Wow Bethany I'm so surprised at your response! Have you ever been abused?

 

No one can MAKE someone react in any way...we all choose our actions.

[snowgirl]

I'm going to be very controversial here and say... If you think that you ARE to blame for winding him up and not backing off, making jokes when he is obviously in an irate mood, then you need to look at yourself here too.

 

I think this man can't have been more honest with you in that email and you need to listen to him, and if you are to blame, then do something about it before your marraige crumbles into bitter dust.

It is NEVER okay to hit or abuse. Ever. Period.

Verbal fights are back and forth, and it takes two. True. But abusive behavior is NEVER EVER an appropriate response to anger. Ever.

[Newlywed]

Bethany,

 

I would hardly class it as making jokes while he was irate, I was 5 minutes late and jokingly asked was he grumpy because I didn't think a mere 5 minutes could possibly cause him to get this annoyed. Obviously I was wrong as it led to him eventually threatening to kicking my head in.

 

However I am fully aware that I am not blameless and I've told him that over and over again, all I'm asking is that he at least admit that regardless of the details of any argument, as goodness knows we all have them at some point, that there is no justification for threatening physical abuse and certainly not in front of a small child. Unfortunately he just won't see it and believes I wound him up so its my fault completely and he should feel not an ounce of remorse for such harsh actions.

 

I don't mind if we argue, everyone does and I can fight my corner better than most I just don't feel there is a need for the level of verbal abuse and threatening of violence and all I want is for him to even just agree with me on that and I'd feel it is a start and he is aware of the problem. But he is not he feels I am totally responsible for his temper and its up to me to control it and as almost every person replying to me has said, how can I control his temper. I can't be responsible for his anger. I can't promise I will never disagree with him or argue with him or get angry with him just in case he loses his temper and its my fault. Thats too much to ask. I told him that, I apologised for my part in the argument and accepted that it would help if I could learn to walk away before it got too heated but that I just need to know he doesn't think its ok to threaten me or verbally abuse me, his answer was nothing.....absolutely nothing and we've barely spoken since. He is just doing his own thing and barely acknowleging I'm around.

 

But I can't and won't give in on this. Its not acceptable to speak to anyone let alone your wife in that manner and I don't think we have a hope in hell for the future unless I at least know he can admit only he can control his temper. At the moment its not looking like thats going to happen so we are basically staying out of each others way and as we all know that can't go on forever!

 

Why is it just when you think you've touched some real happieness life just snaps it out of your hand!!!!!

[voltaire]

There's a few hints in the language of the e-mail that make it seem you and he are from the same country as me (Ireland). I'm glad my first post seemed to give you a constructive way forward. Reading some of his e-mail is not very encouraging however, and I'll tell which bits and why.

 

"I used to square up to everybody and anybody but have learnt to walk away from these situations and kick and punch walls instead." It would be more constructive if he'd learned to control his anger properly.

 

"Tempers aren't something you can simply turn on and off." Well, then he should try harder.

 

" You chose to disregard my feelings and tried making out that it was my fault for being so grumpy about it. You had no interest in taking my feelings into account." You are maybe not taking into account that he doesn't react well to stress.

 

"I always say that I will treat people with the contempt that they treat me and do believe that is how I deal with situations" he must also take into account YOUR feelings and the likely effet of his anger on relationship.

 

"Sorry but I offering you no apology here" "but I do blame you for that."

He could still apologise - it's better to be genuinely sorry than to be right all the time. Even if he just said "I'm sorry I upset you, I didn't mean to."

 

"you cant control your gob at times and you pushed it to the degree it got to." Well, only YOU know if that's true or not.

 

Now, where this man seems to be going wrong is that he's more interested in monitoring your behaviour and punishing you when he decides it's not good enough than in finding resolutions. That is not constructive. He makes a lot of accusations about you, too. Would you say he is correct?

[Newlywed]

Partially, I do have a gob on me as he puts it. I didn't used to. I was extremely quiet and insecure but after a lot of hassle in my life I got help and now I am perhaps to the very other extreme in the sense that I will not allow anyone to make me feel small in anyway. I do need to learn to find a more middle ground with the way I deal with things. I need to not become so adament to have the last word and walk away when things get too heated and perhaps try and come back to it later. I am not perfect Voltaire, I totally admit that. When he gets angry I don't back off I square up to him and thats not good or right, I should learn to back away and deal with the issue later when things are more calm. Every argument takes 2 people and I totally accept I am as much to blame as he is. I need to try and watch and help to avoid these situations.

 

My problem is his total lack of willingness to admit that there was anything wrong with threatening me or being so verbally abusive. I just need to know that he doesn't believe that kind of abuse is in any way acceptable and it worries me greatly that he doesn't see it as a problem. I will do my best to help with this situation but what I if I get it wrong, what if I annoy him even when I'm trying not to, how can I be so totally responsible for controling his temper, thats too much responsibility to put on my shoulders.

 

I'll do my best, I'll watch in future to try and avoid things going so far but I just need him to at least admit that threatening violence and verbally abusing me is not right no matter what the situation. And to be honest until he does that I'm just not sure how I can move on from this argument.

 

By the way yes we are Irish, I had meant to wipe any evidence of that but ooops, its only because if he ever got wind that I was posting our problems on this site I think he would go absolutely mad, plus the reason I'm on here is because I can't talk to anyone I know about it. I don't want them to know, I don't want them judging him, we are only just married and I have to give my marriage a chance and if we can sort this out I don't want our family or friends to always remember it and hold it against him. Thats why its great to get strangers opinions, I'm trying to be as honest about the situation as possible not to make me look good, not to defend him but just to show the entire situation so I can get help to make sense of it and work out what I should do.

[voltaire]

Yes, well, being Irish myself I recognise some of the traits, even without the give-away slips.

 

The first rule of staying out of rows is: don't engage. In other words don't raise your voice just because he does, don't say injurious things just because he does. Talk quietly and calmly. BUT, having said that he MUST accept that threats and abuse are NO WAY FORWARD, and you're right he must recognise that. Furthermore he should be grateful you contacted enotalone, as it shows that you want to sort things out. His bad temper is NOT YOUR FAULT.

[Little English Bloke]

No i'm sorry no girl can make you shove them or grab,punch, kick or any thing else i have been hit, punched and smashed on the head with a frying pan by different girls and i have never raised a hand to them.

 

You need to be very careful you are already saying you make him do it or it's your fault thats what all women say of domestic violence even when they have black eyes and broken ribs and even before they have been beaten to death.

 

I dont want to worry you but come on a amn should never be physical with a women verbal ok sometimes our tongue can lash out but we shouldn't but physical no way never.

 

Hope this helps you in some way take care be careful

[AwdreeHpburn]

Newlywed - what worries me most is the little one. I personally don't think it's OK, EVER to say or do what he did in front of a child.

 

If he is starting there and the marriage is new, the future is very worrisome to me.

 

I strongly suggest you seek help or marriage counseling.

[Beyondthesea]

I truly wouldn't let this slide either hon. There's no reason you have to walk on eggshells to avoid arguments, period.

[yeawutever]

No i'm sorry no girl can make you shove them or grab,punch, kick or any thing else i have been hit, punched and smashed on the head with a frying pan by different girls and i have never raised a hand to them.

 

Sorry to hear what you went through, that was abuse as well. Just b/c they are girls, doesn't give them the right to physically attacked you, hopefully you broke up with them already.

 

As to the original, yes she should stop blaming herself for his temper. No one makes you scream nor hit you, it's you choice whether to act on it or not. That he's still full of BS, not even accepting he has a problem, instead still with the "blaming it all on you" game.

 

[RayKay]

I don't think it matters if you are just married, or 20 years in. Fact you are JUST married is even more scary...abuse escalates. Even in cycles, it escalates.

 

Sorry honey, but this is NOT something you should be "hoping to change". He has been very clear he is not accepting responsibility for it, has been very clear he blames you...and sorry sweetie, but it is UNACCEPTABLE.

 

To us outsiders, it is easy to see how already you are an abuse victim, because you are in the cycle...and you really believe you can "do better" and he will change...and you also truly feel you are at fault. That and the fact you really don't want to tell family in case they "hold it against him" is another huge flag.....they SHOULD hold this against him. He is abusive, and what family in their right mind would truly accept that happening to one of their family members? Sorry, but in healthy, loving relationships disagreements, or being 5 minutes late, does NOT turn into physical threats & harm. EVER.

 

You and your child ARE at risk, whether you are willing to admit it yet or not...you are in a threatening situation.

[AwdreeHpburn]

I agree with RayKay and I gotta say, I'm VERY worried about you but mostly for your child.

[Bethany]

I knew you would all react that way. No I have never been abused and would have walked before it got to that stage and I certinly would not have married him.

I already stated that she should leave him and that his actions are outrageous and nobody should lay a hand on anyone.

 

BUT if she wants this married to work out, they BOTH need to work on things.... Him realizing that he has a problem and sorting it out through anger management for example, and her pushing him whilst he does have this problem as it's a ticking timebomb.

 

He already admitted that he has a problem which is half the battle and I think she should meet him half way IF she still wants this marriage to work out.

[Beyondthesea]

My abusive ex also admitted he had a problem to everyone, but that didn't mean he believed it himself. He went to anger management, counseling sessions, group therapy where he cried about how terrible he felt...then came home and abused me. He was a classic manipulator of me and everyone else.

 

He also told me he was so sorry and felt so terrible. The day I left was because he hit me and then was crying while yelling at me that it was my fault...uhhhh huh.

 

I think Beth because you haven't been abused you don't understand that there is probably something wrong inside of him that is likely unfixable, and his blaming her is the way for him to keep on the upside of the situation.

 

I truly believe that if an abuser wants to change is one thing, but mostly they don't. Why would they? It has advantages for them: they dominate someone else, get what they want, vent every frustration they have about everything, etc. It's like giving a child a popcicle everytime they scream.

 

What do they get? Compliance and walking on eggshells to make sure you can mentally survive in their presense.

 

Everyone in an abusive relationship initially wants to stay because they believe they are the 'key' to change this person's life and help them. You also believe that in the end they will thank you and apologize for all they have done to wrong you and you'll live happily ever after.

 

Overall Newlywed, this has only happened '10 times' or whatever, but have you thought about how it has escalated over time? This last time was the worst I assume...it will continue to get worse I'm afraid darling.

 

Even if he goes to counseling, etc I would refuse to stay with him until he has gone for some time. Behavior problems don't change overnight or with threats. It takes years.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Bethany]

beyondthesea I'm sorry you were abused but I was trying to save a marriage by trying to see the whole picture.

 

newlywed,

I know it is wrong to be abused and if he had done that to me, especially infront of my child, I might have kicked HIS head in.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if neither of you are prepared to change, in whichever small way, then there is no hope and you need to tell him it's over and file for that divorce you dread. At least you and your child will have peace in your lives if you do.

[Newlywed]

Bethany

 

I totally agree with you. Yes this has happened before but this was the worst in the sense that the previous ones were just him getting angry, beside the time he grabbed me which he did seem to be sorry for and at that time he was dealing with a berevement so I made an allowance for him, but other than that it was something that annoyed me but not something that worried me. But this time it was such a severe threat of violence I really believed he would do it. However I am trying to think exactly as you are, I have to at least try to save my marriage and as I stated early I am no angel and probably don't help matters. I have to learn to change as much as I need him to, we are both at fault and if we want to fix it we both have to fix it. So yes I will be making the effort to help sort this, I will be trying not to antagonise the situation if I see its getting too heated. However at the moment we can't move past this incident because he is so totally adament that it is 100% my fault and NOTHING at all to do with him. I can't just say ok lets forget it and try again. I need him to accept at least some responsibility for his actions and he just seems to refuse to do that. That is whats worrying me, I can try and help make things better no problem but if he is adamant I am the problem and he is totally innocent then how can I do it on my own. We have barely spoken now for 3 days, we are pleasant and polite but basically are staying out of each others way. All I need is for him to just admit that threatening violence in such an abusive manner is out of order no matter what the situation and to basically let me know he at least doesn't WANT it to happen again. I just can't accept that I'm 100% responsible for his temper so unfortunately it seems to have reached a stalemate. I feel so tempted to give in just to put an end to the atmosphere but I know if I do then I'm saying its ok for him to be like that towards me because it will be my fault.

 

I will try Bethany, I will make an effort to save my marriage and you are right it takes TWO, i just need to feel he will make an effort too!!

[Beyondthesea]

I need him to accept at least some responsibility for his actions and he just seems to refuse to do that. That is whats worrying me,

 

This is exactly what should be worrying you, I'm glad you realize that.

 

Did you read the article I posted? I assure you it's not junk, it's written by a psychologist. If nothing else, it's very interesting!

I feel so tempted to give in just to put an end to the atmosphere but I know if I do then I'm saying its ok for him to be like that towards me because it will be my fault.

 

That's exactly right honey. His behavior is his choice, that's the truth. No one can 'make you behave' in any sort of manner. It's always ourselves that choose our behavior.

[Newlywed]

I know you guys will all give out to me but after another attempt at sorting this issue to no avail I gave in, I emailed him (I'm not ready for actual verbal contact just yet) and for the sake of peace accepted full responsibility. I didn't word it sarcastically I just told him that he won and that I accept it was all my fault, this was his reply:

 

Don't throw your toys out of the pram just because you cant have your own way. My opinion is different to yours accept it and forget about it, stop harping on about it and wallowing in self pity as if you have been so hard done by!!!!!!!!!!

 

I can't win so whats the point in trying to fight. I've married an abusive man who doesn't see that his abuse is even a problem. How could I have been so stupid, how did I get myself into this mess.

 

I know what you will all say, leave and that I'm in danger, well I read the article you posted beyondteresa and yes it is interesting and just scares me more to make me realize the kind of man I've only just married. I'm praying this is all a dream and i'll wake up from it and realize it never actually happened and I'm back to being happily married and madly in love.....am I stupid or what????????????????????

[Beyondthesea]

I'm praying this is all a dream and i'll wake up from it and realize it never actually happened and I'm back to being happily married and madly in love.....am I stupid or what????????????????????

 

No you're not stupid honey, you are human. You are feeling and caring, and that's why you don't understand his behavior towards you.

 

I can't win so whats the point in trying to fight.

 

Honey, here's the best advice I can offer:

 

Do NOT allow yourself to get into the frame of mind that you cannot win and that you should bow down and walk on eggshells to have some peace. I did that, and can honestly say things were much worse once I allowed him to 'take over' me.

 

Once I started avoiding topics, people, conversations, etc, that is when things got really bad, and I started to give up. I was convinced I would stay in this relationship, angry, in pain and dying inside forever. Why? Because the moment you threaten to leave, they temporarily alter their behavior. It's sick!

 

I can guarantee that if you say "I'm leaving" he will beg, plead, cry, promise to go to counseling, promise to change, etc. Then be good about 2 weeks, then it starts over again because you will do something to 'upset him.' It's really a vicious and confusing cycle, I have no idea how I made it out with any sanity intact.

 

The second thing you need to do: TELL SOMEONE. You must make sure someone (a close friend, relative, your family, etc) realizes what is going on. They need to know so that if things start to get out of hand, you have a safe place to go to very quickly.

 

You should always have a 'safe bag' packed and hidden with a few days worth of clothes etc in case he raises his hand to you again and you need to escape in a hurry.

 

I know right now this is all very overwhelming and confusing, but try to take my advice into account and realize that this cycle is going to continue.

 

Have a safe place to go on a moment's notice, start seeing a counselor to get your head on straight, and remember that unfortunately the only way to end this is to get out. When you are ready to leave, you can.

 

I wasn't ready for 7 years. I wish I would have pushed myself earlier on in the relationship to leave, but I was very head strong and convinced I could help him change, and he assured me that was the case as well. thereforeeee, whenever something went wrong, it was my fault he 'relapsed.'

 

Don't let him play with your head, don't allow yourself to be convinced you are in the wrong (This will ALWAYS happen at the end of an argument) and don't allow him to isolate you.

 

PM me if you'd like, I've so been there, and helped a number of women with emotional support in these relationships.

 

HUGS!