Be myself or try and change?

[yumblefish]

My gf and I almost broke up recently. She said that I wasn't as confident and independent as I was when we met - which, suffice to say was not in a 'normal life' situation. She said that I always tried to please her instead of expressing my own opinions and mentioned that I was too clingy - making her the centre of my life.

 

I can totally see where she's coming from. I don't have a great deal of friends or other things to do outside of work and generally lack confidence and self-esteem, although I feel that I'm getting better and making an effort to change.

 

I don't want to lose her, especially as I know that I have been, can be and want to be the person that she fell in love with. Should I just be myself or make a concerted effort to change? In a sense, I guess I've answered my own question whilst typing - don't change for anyone else - only change if I want to, which I do. If she doesn't love me in the meantime, then it's just not meant to be.

 

Ho hum.

[kellbell]

Hi there,

 

Change for yourself and no one else. You never have to change in order to keep someone around. I mean, I am all for self-improvement but not acting like yourself just to keep someone is not. Maybe you two were just not compatible. I am so sorry about your break-up. (((hugs)))

[renaissancewoman101]

Yes, you shouldnt change for anybody. But, a good dose of self confidence is not a bad thing. You should try and make new friends, explore new hobbies, and that will help you regain your self-confidence and feel good about yourself. If you do that and start feeling good about yourself, you will portray a better self-image to other people and attract other friends as well as people of the opposite sex.

 

Maybe if your ex sees that you are happier with yourself and that your self-confidence is returning, she might decide to come back to you. People always like to hang out with other people who have interesting lives. That I do know. That is why I am trying to reinvent myself by going back to school in the fall to finish my teaching degree, change my career choices, and basically make new friends and enjoy life.

[xmrth]

I think it's good to have other things in life anyway. I don't think it should be looked at as changing for anyone-- this really is not about you changing. It's all about having a -complete- life.

I'm kind of the same way with my boyfriend, with having him be the center of my life, and I'm trying to change that and it's very fulfilling in more ways than just a relationship.

[yumblefish]

Thanks guys, although the good news is that even though we were very close to breaking up, we talked things through and we're still together, so at least I have a chance...

[Lonelyinasmalltown]

Good to hear you're still with her. Doesn't change the fact that you should only change for yourself. I have a question, are you happy with the person you are right now? If you say yes, then don't change, you are the only person in the whole world who can make you happy 100% of the time. If you aren't, go ahead and change yourself. =)

 

Best of luck to you.

[yumblefish]

I have a question, are you happy with the person you are right now?

 

In some respects, yes, but in others no. I have a mental picture of myself as I want to be. I'm not there yet, but I can and will get there.

[PocoDiablo]

My gf and I almost broke up recently. She said that I wasn't as confident and independent as I was when we met

End of story RIGHT HERE.

 

"As I was when we met." This means you are slacking off, you've become less confident, independent, and maybe less funny, flirty, etc.

 

This is a common trap for most guys. You slacked off! Tsk, tsk! You need to put some more energy into your relationship. You also need to spend some LESS time with her, and more time being independent. Take a weekday off and shoot hoops with your friends. Give her the gift of missing you... absense makes the heart fonder, after all. (Really.)

 

She said that I always tried to please her instead of expressing my own opinions

Yeah, this is ugly. Don't be a kiss up. Do what you want sometimes. Remember, realtionships are give AND take. If you're not taking, she's going to give you some walking papers ...

 

and mentioned that I was too clingy - making her the centre of my life.

Yeah, what are you doing tonight? Come over and we can work on the cars together. Leave the woman at home. We'll have some drinks and shoot ehe breeze. Give her a day off. (Get it? Call your buddy.)

 

I can totally see where she's coming from. I don't have a great deal of friends or other things to do outside of work

Go find some. Turn the computer off. Go get lunch somewhere and sit at the bar, say Hi to the people next to you no matter who they are and see if they are in the mood to chat. Ask them questions, get to know them, joke, then take off.

 

and generally lack confidence and self-esteem, although I feel that I'm getting better and making an effort to change.

Fake it. No one really has that, in my opinion, but you can act like it until it feels comfortable.

 

I don't want to lose her, especially as I know that I have been, can be and want to be the person that she fell in love with. Should I just be myself or make a concerted effort to change?

Change BACK into YOURSELF who you were when you met. And don't do anything for her - do it for YOU. This is a hard concept to explain, but, for example, if she were to tell you to hang out with your friends more often, keep that in mind. Then go work on your car instead. Don't do it because she said so, just think of it as a suggestion. You have to do things you want to do on your own schedule, your own time.

 

In a sense, I guess I've answered my own question whilst typing - don't change for anyone else - only change if I want to, which I do. If she doesn't love me in the meantime, then it's just not meant to be.

Not always. If you are slacking off, getting lazy, you can ruin even the most perfect relationships. Pull your socks up, be the flirt or jokester, or whoever you were when you met. That was who she thought you were, and now you've changed. It's like you lied to her to "catch" her. You know? Be yourself.

[BillyJean714]

I don't about you, but what I'm sensing (maybe it's a woman-to-woman thing) is that she's just giving you excuses.

 

I'd say- move on. If she really loved you, she would've accepted you for ALL that you are, just the way you are. And you know what? If she can't, then she's not good enough for you.

 

Sounds like you're a nice bf that she just took for granted. I'm sorry, but that's just my honest/sincere opinion. You didn't lose anything. If anything, you can thank her for telling you that so that you can move on and be happy again.

 

Good luck. Live your life and don't change it for someone who doesn't love you. Change your life because you want to make yourself happy. Don't change it to make her happy, because she ISN'T worth it! If anyone tells you that you're not good enough, in my opinion, they're not good enough.

[PocoDiablo]

I don't about you, but what I'm sensing (maybe it's a woman-to-woman thing) is that she's just giving you excuses.

Excuses are the kiss of death when a woman says them. Me, I'd say I agree and he's about to get dumped.

 

Check the articles in my signature and you'll see why... #3, #4, and #5 probably all have some good points.

 

This is a red flag, and not a good one. She's trying to dump him, but it's his fault. So he could save it, in my opinion, if he gets his act together quick enough. It's hard to do, though!

[BillyJean714]

I agree. Sounds like her quick approach to dump him.

 

To the OP,

 

I don't mean to offend you. I'm just straight up like that. I don't like to b.s.- I say it as I see it. No sugarcoating.

 

When I read your post- I really sensed that she was b.s.-ing you. It seems like she's just stringing you along and is just *trying* to find some sort of excuse to break up you so that she doesn't feel guilty.

 

Like the previous poster said. If you're not compatible, then you're not. If you feel as though you guys are, but she doesn't feel the same, then you just can't force it. Gotta let it go. Cut her off outta your life so you can move on. Don't let her string you along. Don't think about her, because obviously, when someone rejects you, it doesn't feel to good. You need to think more about yourself and more about who you are and what you want in a relationship - someone who will mutually desire you just as much as you desire them. Don't settle for anything less than that.

 

That's just my honest opinion.

[yumblefish]

I can see all of your points and I agree, even though some of them are hard to swallow. The fact is though, that during our recent 'discussion' there were countless opportunities for her to break up with me, and yet she didn't. In the end it boiled down to her decision, because I am willing to work on things. We're still together and today she was happy, smiley and affectionate. If she wanted to break up with me she would have wouldn't she? Or is this some kind of 'test' to see if I have enough respect for myself to not 'settle'?

[xmrth]

I don't think it needs that much looking into. She told you how she felt-- plain and simple. How else are you to know without her telling you?

If she's telling you, she obviously wants to work on it.

 

I would just leave it at that, and work on yourself. Only positive outcomes in your life in general can come from this-- more friends, more time on just -your- life, more confidence... it's not like she's asking much of you, especially because she's commenting on how you were in the beginning, because you were more of yourself then and not lost in the relationship as you are getting to. So that is why I'm saying, don't look further into it than that or you'll end up overanalyzing every little thing she does, like you said at the end of your very last comment here.

[jl301]

Don't ever change yourself for others. I'm sorry to hear about your situation, but your gf should love / care for who you are. Is okay, if you want to better yourself and become better person overall. I'm going to have agree with others on that your gf might be breaking up with you soon. You should never have to settle for anything in life. Life is too short!!! Just hang in there and be strong for yourself!!!

[PocoDiablo]

I can see all of your points and I agree, even though some of them are hard to swallow.

Yeah, they are. But you'll have a whole different outlook if you accept the reality of situations. You'll see things like you never have before.

 

The fact is though, that during our recent 'discussion' there were countless opportunities for her to break up with me, and yet she didn't.

Because just like women don't ask men on dates, women don't dump guys. Unless it's SO bad they have to. Haven't you known anyone who was so insecure they couldn't dump someone, but instead they'd be mean, or standoff-ish, or cheat, or something to get their SO to dump them? This is how most women work in my experience. Women do not want to hurt people's feelings as a general rule, but they will do things to force you to take action. This is her way of "hinting" for you to take action.

 

In the end it boiled down to her decision, because I am willing to work on things.

Women want a take-charge man, one who can make decisions. This is another flaw of yours that you need to work on. Letting or forcing her do the decision making is a BIG turn off for many women, and I bet it is for her.

 

We're still together and today she was happy, smiley and affectionate. If she wanted to break up with me she would have wouldn't she?

Sure she would have, until she figured out some other way to make you so mad as to dump her.

 

Or is this some kind of 'test' to see if I have enough respect for myself to not 'settle'?

Yes. And, in a way, you have both passed and failed. Ultimately you failed because you did not call it off. However, the get back together issue is like ... you listened to her and worked with her, but she wanted you to dump her, and then stay broken up. The funny thing would be that if you DID dump her it would mean you really WERE a man she wanted, and she'd be desperate to get back with you. But if you did, then it would show you had no backbone and she'd dump you again. Sigh.

 

If I were you, I would tell her that you've been doing some thinking. Be cool and respectful but tell her "Next time you suggest you want to break up you need to be very sure about it. I am not the kind of guy who will give you a second chance when it comes to that. I'm very serious. Okay?" This is telling her (1) you're mature (2) if she wants out, she knows how and (3) you're going to hold her to it. Then if she tries this again, be very matter-of-fact... "If you do this, you're gone. You understand? There is no second chance."

 

I believe you have to give people standards and expectations to live up to - and they often will. Have you ever let her know your standards? You should - I think now is the exact time you need to get some standards and share them with her.

 

I would also consider adding the fact that since she tried to pull that break up that if she wants the relationship to work, she needs to start showing you how much it means to her. No more slacking on her part. Let her know she's on probabtion, basically, and you're keeping track of points (good versus bad) and if she screws up too much you're done. Don't tell her what the points are, since you don't know yet but you can take away points and give points as you go.

 

Examples:

She misses a date ... -5 points

She flirts with a guy ... -10 points.

She makes you dinner? +5 points

She makes you ... heh... you know! +10 points.

 

Have fun with it, be light, funny, flirty, and exciting - be yourself.

[BillyJean714]

Your post reminds me of countless stories I hear from my friends - both guy and girl.

 

Sounds like an excuse to me. Plain and simple- she can't break up with you because she doesn't have the guts to. You're too nice and there really isn't a reason for her to want to break up with you other than "Oh, you build your world around me too much."

 

I have friends who always say that about the bfs who they want to dump but can't. They tell their exs (now bfs, again for the 2nd or 4th time in a row) that "You need to do this and that, then we can be together." Excuses! If she loves you enough, she will encourage you to be your best without having the mention the word "break-up."

 

Everytime my friends always wanted to breakup with their bfs, it's because:

A. They didn't treat them right.

-OR-

B. They thought they could do better, but couldn't. -They took their bfs for granted.

 

But, if you feel happy feeling as though she somewhat accepts you, then by all means, stay. But, I think that you should be honest with yourself, because to me, it doesn't sound like she's all that into you. Sorry to sound blunt, but a lot of the times, I wish i could've told my friends' ex bfs that, becuase they were nice guys and they deserved better than to be strung along and settled 'down' for while their gfs were cheating on them behind their backs!

[BillyJean714]

Because just like women don't ask men on dates, women don't dump guys. Unless it's SO bad they have to. Haven't you known anyone who was so insecure they couldn't dump someone, but instead they'd be mean, or standoff-ish, or cheat, or something to get their SO to dump them? This is how most women work in my experience. Women do not want to hurt people's feelings as a general rule, but they will do things to force you to take action. This is her way of "hinting" for you to take action.

True. This is SO true.

 

I often don't break up with my ex's. The only times where I did, was when they took me for granted, mistreated me, and/or cheated.

 

I do know of some girls who are like what Poco mentions. They give excuses like:

a. "We need to break up so that he can do this and that for himself." (When in reality- they really just weren't feeling the guy all too much- from get go, they were just with their bfs just to be with them. Sure they pretended to smile, have fun, but underneath it all, they weren't really into them).

 

b. "He needs to work on his 6-pack a bit more. I'm not really turned on by him anymore" (Reality- she knew from get go that she wasn't all that into him. She told me so in the beginning of their 3 year relationship).

 

c. "He's too nice. I know he cares but I don't know, I just don't want to be with him anymore." (Reality- she knew this from get go as well. After 6 years of being with this guy, she still wants to breakup with him, but can't. She's not all that into him, either).

 

Anyway, the list can go on. The point is, when someone makes an excuse NOT to be with you, it's just an excuse. When it comes to love, there aren't any excuses. When someone loves you, they love you for all that you are. They stand by your side through thick and thin. They don't turn their backs against you. When you're in your lowest low, they don't tell you to "Go fend for yourself." They stand by your side, because they LOVE and BELIEVE in you. And that sir, is the truth.

[jl301]

Great analogy PocoDiablo / Billjean

[Momene]

I think the clingy/independence balance in a relationship is one of the things that determines how long it lasts. I'm on the clingy side but, fortunately, so is my wife, so it works for us. However, many younger people are more independent of each other than my generation and my generation is more independent than that of my parents and in-laws.

 

A clingy person and an independent person just can't work. You may be able to find friends to go to the pub with once, twice or however many times you agree to have separate activities but, unless you feel comfortable with that, it won't work.

 

I don't ever like to say a relationship is doomed but this one may need more adjustment than you can comfortably make.

 

Good luck.

[yumblefish]

Yes, all good points again. I'm probably just trying to ignore the inevitable - because basically I'll be heartbroken because I thought/think I've found 'the one'. This is also my first proper relationship, so I'm learning all of theses things 'on the job' as it were. I should point out that at no point has it come to an ultimatum 'change this, this and this else I'll break up with you' - I raised the issue this time because I was feeling ignored and wanted to know why - although I already had my suspicions. Time will tell I guess...

 

If that's the case, that women never do the dumping, then that's just pathetic. If you really cared for the other person, even just as a friend and no longer a partner, then just be blunt and honest and spare further anguish for both parties. I'm the kind of person, and I'm sure there are countless others like me, who will work on things until there is absolutely no hope left.

 

The thing here is that the problem (clinginess and neediness) is mine because I have low confidence and little else going on in my life at the moment. I'm aware of the problem and I want to change the way I am, which gives me hope. I admire all the qualities of my gf and realise now that a relationship will not 'complete' me - I'm the only one who can make myself totally happy.

 

In essense, how can I have a loving relationship with someone else if I can't first have a loving relationship with myself.

[Momene]

Yes, you must solve the last one regardless of whether you "save" the relationship with your girlfriend or not.

 

I'm not an expert in that area but I've afew issues myself.

[yumblefish]

Whatever the situation, I feel like crap at the moment.

[PocoDiablo]

Yes, all good points again. I'm probably just trying to ignore the inevitable - because basically I'll be heartbroken because I thought/think I've found 'the one'.

The old "head in the sand approach", huh? Yeah, I can understand why you would say that. It's the feeling of impending doom, not knowing what to do next, not knowing why things are going wrong, and just feeling helpless. But this is the time to start *researching* how to make things better.

 

My overall take on this is that you need to start acting like more of an adult. Showing your fears and insecurities, and acting on them or talking about them, is more child-like than adult at a time like this. You need to do a little "take charge" of things. There are so many things to cover, it's hard to tell you where to start. You may want to check out some dating advice sites, I've got a list of some of them here:

 

link removed

 

You may want to poke around and read some of them, see what you can find.

 

This is also my first proper relationship, so I'm learning all of theses things 'on the job' as it were.

Welcome to life. Here's a quote that I always think of: "Life is a harsh teacher. It gives you the test first, and you learn the lesson second." So true.

 

I should point out that at no point has it come to an ultimatum 'change this, this and this else I'll break up with you'

It won't. And if it does, I strongly recommend you don't "comply" because she really does not want you to change - she wants you to know who you are and stand your ground, be a person, be an adult. It's a test - if you change, you fail. Be yourself. And tell her "No, sorry, this is who I am. If you don't like it, well, that's too bad." Be nice about it, but firm.

 

Example: My SO complains that I flirt with other people which upsets her. But she, of course, understands that is part of my job as well (since I give dating advice to clients). So if I were to stop flirting, my clients would suffer. After all the complaints, she admitted that she knew from the get-go who I was and would not expect me to change. And, in my experience, if I had changed she would not have respected me in the long run.

 

I raised the issue this time because I was feeling ignored and wanted to know why - although I already had my suspicions. Time will tell I guess...

If you're feeling ignored, it's because you are not doing enough to keep her attracted to you. You've overlooked some maintenance issue in the relatonship, such as surprising her, taking her out, flirting with her, having a good time together, etc.

 

If that's the case, that women never do the dumping, then that's just pathetic.

It's not always the case, but it is *usually* the case in my experience. It's just one of those things that makes the world what it is. It's a courting behavior, basically, and it's hardwired... more or less. (Actually, I think it's a LOT more complex, but I'll save it for some other time. It's not going to change reality.)

 

If you really cared for the other person, even just as a friend and no longer a partner, then just be blunt and honest and spare further anguish for both parties.

So if I were to tell you "Dude, you're an insensitive idiot. You're acting like a loser. You've screwed up your relationship. Get your head out of the ground and go treat her right." you'd jump at that advice? I don't think people work like that. I would bet money you'd think I was some jerk and would not take my advice - even if it was right. And I *could* do that because I have some idea of what is going on.

 

Now what about her? What if she truly does *not* know what the problem is, how can she tell you? Maybe she does not know that the issues are related to you being too serious, or something. All she knows is that it does not *feel* right. How can she explain that to you? Women are very intuitive, and I applaud them for trusting their intuition, trusting their gut. If men did the same thing, everyone would be a lot better off. You *feel* something is wrong, but you still cling with a hope that things will get better. Women don't usually do this. I do not know how women are wired differently, but it always reminds me of "Fight or flight." We, men, we fight. We stick around and try to solve things. Women? Screw that, they're smarter than us. They take off and find greener pastures while we idiot men hit each other with sticks. So now maybe she can't explain what is going on, other than you're doing something that turns her off, but she takes action.

 

Me? I'd tell you it's because of three issues: You lack confidence, Control, or Challenge. It's more than that, it's a philosophy I picked up from Doc Love. It makes a lot of sense. You're either lacking confidence (clingy, needy, low status, kiss up, etc.), you lack control which is self-control, self respect, self-discipline, etc., or you lack challenge which is flirting, being unpredictable, being mysterious, being hard to pin down. There's a lot more to it, of course, but those are the core elements. What it comes down to is being too serious. Guys have to lighten up, have more fun, stop playing therapist, stop kissing up, stop being a jerk, etc.

 

You have to be a gentleMAN. An adult. I think the perfect example is Cary Grant. He would never beg to keep a woman with him, he'd tell her it was her loss. Confidence. He'd never do something stupid, like drive like a maniac when she was in the car. He'd drive slow and safely, ensuring her comfort and safety. He's a flirt, but he's also direct to let a woman know what he wants. I saw a film where he was trying to pick up some woman while he was on a cruise. It was amazing. So classic, I could not believe it. Every single line was almost worthy of an hour long discussion. There was so much information to digest it was incredible. And he was polite, charming, mature, etc. How can you dispute that?

 

I'm the kind of person, and I'm sure there are countless others like me, who will work on things until there is absolutely no hope left.

Yeah, typical guy mentality. But you're working on it wrong. This is like loosening a bolt the wrong way - you're tightening it but you don't know it. You're putting ten times the effort into it. You're getting longer and longer wrenches. Guess what happens if you keep doing this? You snap the bolt head off, and you're screwed. Guys think that with more FORCE things will work. It's not the right thing to do. Chasing her down and beating her into submission is "tightening the bolt." You need to "loosen the bolt" and I bet you could do it with your fingers once you got over the initial "resistance." Guys, you have to understand this. Just like women are soft and gentle, you can do the same thing as well and get better results.

 

Work SMARTER not HARDER.

 

The thing here is that the problem (clinginess and neediness) is mine because I have low confidence and little else going on in my life at the moment.

So how is clingy "softer and smarter"? Is it "romantic and flirty?" How does your lack of self confidence "charming" or "attractive"? It's not. But you can read or practice on how to act confident, how to flirt more, how to smile more, how to joke around more.

 

For the record, confidence is an act, in my opinion. No one *really* has confidence, expect for the egotistical idiots, in my opinion. We all have fears and worries which affect our "confidence." I'm very confident some days, and other days ... I'm just not feeling it. I went out last Friday and tried to talk to some women, but just was not feeling it. It went over really badly. Then we went out shopping Saturday, the very next day, and just about every woman I talked to had a very positive response. One woman just about jumped me in the store she worked, it was pretty interesting. So how can I "have" confidence one day and not the other? Because it's a mind set, it's a frame of mind, it's a mood. And with success comes confidence.

 

One thing I tell my clients is to go ask a woman out. And as soon as one says "yes" go ask out some more. Right after the "yes" your confidence will be through the roof. Women will pick up on this, you will act more confident, and you'll suddenly get lots of dates. My current client had just broken up with his GF and was very depressed. Then after a little coaching he went out and asked a girl out. He got a yes. Then he asked another out, and got another yes. Then he stopped trying and the next few women gave him their numbers *without* him even asking ... he just radiated success, and woman are attracted to that.

 

I'm aware of the problem and I want to change the way I am, which gives me hope. I admire all the qualities of my gf and realise now that a relationship will not 'complete' me - I'm the only one who can make myself totally happy.

Exactly. No one can make you feel anything against your will. I could be having a bad day, but would it affect you? Not likely. Same goes for anyone you know.

 

In essense, how can I have a loving relationship with someone else if I can't first have a loving relationship with myself.

I don't see those two concepts as being as interrelated as you make them out to be. You just need some more information. Check out this link (with other links) from my site and read up. Maybe you'll find something that helps you think differently:

 

link removed

 

So... have you stopped being so serious with her? Did you flirt with her yesterday? Make unselfish love (all for her) to her yet? How about make dinner for her? Or clean the kitchen (that's foreplay, you know! ) for her?

[Momene]

That's a really good set of observations and I could certainly learn a lot from them.

[yumblefish]

PocoDiablo - fantastic post. Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to offer your advice. It's all going in, and I can now see where I'm going and have gone wrong.

 

I'm doing things differently starting from NOW. Yes, I'm being less serious with her. I flirted with her last time I saw her and the unselfish love will follow soon! ;-) Of course I want to stay together, but if she decides that I'm not the guy for her then, you're right, it's her loss.