Seeing Other People

[hosswhispra]

It would be interesting to see if P. would stick around with you Curlygirl47 without sex...until you were in a committed relationship with each other.

 

hosswhispra

[curlygirl47]

It seems like you skipped my last post, or just read into it rather than truly listening. My point was, and is, that I am feeling much stronger and that I'm not putting up with anymore nonsense. Whether I sleep with my ex or not has little to do with anything at this point. I'm seeing the relationship differently, I'm beginning to have more control, and I'm worried about it less. I'm applying for a job in California, in fact, and I'm feeling much better emotionally and mentally since I started my meds and started seeing a counselor. I'm not starting a new relationship in this town, that's for sure. I'll only be here until the summer, if I can find another job and if things don't change radically, as I've already said. If I want to have sex with my ex in the meantime, I'll do it. On the other hand, we're definitely going to have a talk about everything, and I may decide at that time that I won't sleep with him anymore. I've just had a complete physical, and I'm sexually healthy and will keep an eye on that. I'm not stupid, and I'm not careless. I have been vulnerable, yes, and P. has had a lot of power. I'm taking it back. I told him on the phone yesterday that I can live with it either way --- meaning whether we are together or not. I was very calm, and I'm sure that he is beginning to see me in a different light and to have more respect for me. If you don't think so, please at least give me the benefit of the doubt and wait to see what happens.

[Scout]

Hi Curly...I did read your last post, but honestly, my take was that your anger that he canceled the date was still a sign of expecting him to act committed and loyal and then being angrily surprised when he wasn't.

 

I'm not blaming you or putting you down...I do think it's positive that you're looking for another job, and it's WONDERFUL that you went to Alabama last weekend without him. It does seem you're getting strength to leave this relationship; maybe I'm just impatient for you to get out sooner. Whatever works for you, but please at least keep the momentum going forward, and don't let him sucker you into making any steps backwards.

[curlygirl47]

If I'm sounding defensive, well --- I am. But isn't this better than whiny little me?

 

Here's something I just read from Beyond Blame, and it points out some things I need to continue to work on:

 

"It is counterproductive to blame others, but it can be just as destructive to blame yourself for unpleasant circumstances. Rather than dwelling on who is at fault, it is far better for you to accept responsibility for overcoming the problem and get on with the business of taking charge of this process and working things through. This effort is easier said than done, for the chief obstacles that get in the way of resolving conflicts are those unresolved issues that you have been ignoring. The consequence of accepting responsibility for a conflict is that you then have to do a tremendous amount of work on yourself in order to rectify matters. This has a lot less to do with things you do on the outside than with internal strategies you can adopt to feel more personal control and take responsibility for your internal feelings."

 

I appreciate you all being there and helping me think everything through. Your comments, positive and negative, do put me in a better position to "take responsibility for my internal feelings."

[Scout]

Well, we were probably getting a little strident in our opposition to your continuing this relationship on any level, so I can understand how you started to feel a bit defensive. It's just we're really rooting for you and want you to have what you truly deserve, not bits and pieces and uncertainty and pain.

 

And, you are making real steps. Seriously, when I read that you went to Alabama after all without him, I gave a cheer for you out loud at my PC!!

[curlygirl47]

I do appreciate your looking out for me. Part of the problem is that P. WAS committed and loyal to me for a period of time --- thus my shock and confusion when he bailed on me. However, I am rallying. I still want to have my basic attitude toward life, which is a loving and accepting one, one that accepts others imperfections as I do my own. I have hurt people before, so I have been on that side, and I know that when we do that we hurt ourselves as well. P. will have to deal with his own pain at some point. I think whatever happens between us, my greater purpose is to love him and to leave him with a good impression of me if I leave. My mother has always been a good example of taking the high road, and that is the one that I want to take.

 

Something else that I am pondering, From The Art and Practice of Loving: "Everything that you ever receive will come to you in a flawed vessel. All vessels are flawed. That one swears too much, that one makes too little money, that one has a mole on his cheek, and that one laughs too loud. Every blessing, every lesson, comes in a flawed vessel. You can focus either on the contents of the vessel or the flaw. If you do not like the role someone plays in your life, you will see a flaw in him. If you focus on it, get lost in negative judgment, you have no way either to love him or to learn from him. There he is ---glorious, flaw and all --- and here you are muttering about what a terrible thing it is that he does what he does. Thus you waste your blessings."

[Scout]

Yeah, I see what you mean. You don't want to hate him, because you remember the good things about him, too, and don't want to have only a bitter memory of the relationship.

 

I can definitely relate to that feeling of "shock" when someone seems to change their feelings for us. That's really what is so tough to get over. Sadly, many people end up thinking that's what they can always expect - that love won't last - but that's not the case. There are plenty of guys out there who can love you forever and you can love right back. But, you have to be in a certain place within yourself before you can recognize that kind of person when you meet him.

 

Sure took me a while to get there, but if it happened to me, it can happen to anyone!

[curlygirl47]

I felt as good as you did about it, Scout, and you did inspire me to go. And it was terrific the way P. responded, calling me while I was on the trip and getting all anxious about it. (That's a little mean-spirited, but hey it did him good, too.) And I spent more time with my father, who has had a big role in the way my life has turned out and some of the choices that I have made in regard to men. He was a drunk, abusive, and unfaithful husband to my mother, and he set me off in life with a skewed vision of what love should be like and can be like. He is a much better person, now, but we were estranged for nearly twenty years, so we are really just getting to know each other. My relationship to him and my view of him is very important in my emotional healing and in my ability to improve my relationship skills with other men. Interestingly, when P. didn't call or take me out for New Year's Eve, I ended up going to Dad's then, too, and got a kiss from my dad and my daughter at midnight to bring in the New Year.

[curlygirl47]

By the way, I'm back on No Contact as far as I'm concerned. I'll make no further efforts with P. unless he contacts me.

[lovemycoffee41]

I only needed to read the first line. Get out, you deserve someone who will want the whole deal, not just parts of you. And that person is out there!!

[nataliejulie]

By the way, I'm back on No Contact as far as I'm concerned. I'll make no further efforts with P. unless he contacts me.

 

No Contact involves not even picking up the phone when he calls.

 

 

I'm just concerned because you say you are gaining the power, but if you take a bigger look at it, he's still much bigger than you, power wise.

 

This is why:

1. He is getting sex, having dates, totally uncommitted. If he wants to, he can go sleep with the next girl he sees and you cannot do one thing about it. Because, techincally, he's still single. Yes, you may be getting sex, but you want more than that. You want the relationship part. So he's getting everything he needs/wants and you are accepting the scraps.

2. If he told you not to move because he wanted to work on things -- you would probably stay behind. He most likely still sees power in making a decision for you, because he knows if he put his cards on the table, you'd accept.

3. You still got mad at breaking plans. This only proves how emotionally attached you are in this relationship. Thus, giving him power over your emotions.

 

I am not back-lashing, I'm just saying... I've been there before, I thought I had it in control, and then I was hurt more than the first time. I just don't want that to happen to you.

[curlygirl47]

According to the Perfect Plan, NC doesn't necessarily mean not responding to your ex's attempts to contact you. Anyway, let's call it no effort on my part. Also, I should clarify that I was angry not because P. broke our plans but because of his response to the woman's phone call --- specifically, what he said to her, which was lame, and that he didn't talk to me about it until the next day. I was very clear to him at that time what he should have said to the woman if he intended to stop the rumors and make things right between us, publicly. You say he still has control --- yes, he still has some, but much less. I am feeling less emotionally vulnerable to him, and I am recognizing his limitations (one of which is that he is as emotionally vulnerable as I am, or more, he just handles it in a different way). I think he is, in fact, extremely insecure, which he hides by bravado and distance. If you knew how often he asked me, even when we were dating regularly, "Why do you like me?" "Are you sure you are as crazy about me as you say?" "Do I satisfy you?" (this is said nearly every time in bed, and sometimes out of bed) "Are you going to just suddenly move away and leave me?" "Are you going to leave me for a woman?" (after I confessed to a one-time episode with a woman). He was also so jealous in the beginning that he threatened to break a guy's leg just because he stood too close to me and "disrespected" him.

[NJRon]

Hmm... I'm glad you're moving

[TiredMan]

Well the choice is obviously yours. If he doesn't want to recommit, then you have to choose if you want to be with him, in this way. NC is only good if you want to completely cut them off and heal yourself. But I don't think you want that. But also, no one here knows what kind of bond you guys had/have or what truly went on. If you truly want him, then I guess you should wait for as long as you can. Once that passes, then you have to move on because there is no choice in the matter at that point. Until then, do what makes you whole and if that means staying with him ANY WAY POSSIBLE, then do so.

 

Also keep in mind that some advice you might be getting are from women who were hurt by guys in their own situation and then that comes out in their advice to you. IN the end, it's obviously all up to you.

[curlygirl47]

We'll see about that move. I have to find a job first.

[curlygirl47]

I really like it that you emphasize my ability to choose for myself. Listening to good advice is important --- considering it is important --- taking away some jewels of practice for my life and decision making is important, but ultimately I'm the one who had/have the relationship and have to decide what I can live with and what I can't. I didn't like my life before P. very much; I haven't in a long time. I was lonely, and I never seemed to connect to any guys. With all his flaws, P. is still often very tender, open, and giving. He wants to love and be loved.

[annie24]

I agree strongly with NatalieJulie. She definitely learned the hard way.

 

CurlyGirl - be careful with your heart! Don't put him up on such a pedestal. Don't give him more than he is giving you!!!!

[curlygirl47]

Well, obviously some of you are right about P. still having power over my emotions, because last night and today I have felt so angry because I haven't heard from him --- this habit of bailing on me whenever he gets uncomfortable is infuriating. But I am trying to re-focus on what I want and to remember that it is his loss; he had someone who was devoted to him and never doubted him. Now, he has put me in a completely different frame of mind. There is little trust, and I clearly can't depend on him to be consistent from one day to the next. I don't like him so much right now, and I guess that's a good thing. I'm concerned about my anger, because I never know what to do when I'm angry and I feel it building. Maybe I'll take a walk or scream into my pillow or break a few plates.

[NJRon]

I like to get on chat boards and make nasty comments to people... j/k

[curlygirl47]

Well, how about this instead. This is what I would say to my ex if I didn't think I'd regret it. "You are incredibly selfish, inconsiderate, and untrustworthy. The way you have treated me in the past 6 weeks is unacceptable. You have taken something beautiful, honest, good, and sweet, and trampled it underneath your feet and then spit on it for good measure. Why did you have to ruin everything??? Come and get your stuff out of my storage shed and then I don't want to hear from you or see you again." And I'd like to throw a few things while I'm at it --- namely, throw the whole basket of items he has given me in his direction and just let them fall all around him in the yard --- make a real Jerry Springer show, a complete fit. I'd like to have a dozen pizzas delivered to his house, from different companies. I'd like to spread a rumor that he's a lousy lover. I'd like to take out an ad in the paper and reveal his secrets. And I could go on, but I'm too embarrassed to tell you the really nasty things I'm tempted to do. The bottom line, though, is that none of these things has anything to do with love, and I don't want to act in a way that is ultimately damaging to me and to him. So I need to get a grip on my anger and redirect it. It's just that I'm surprised by the ferocity of my feelings, when up until now I'm just been enveloped in sadness and despair. I wonder if my meds are doing something to my amygdala. I don't want to turn into the Incredible Hulkess

[NJRon]

Redirect the anger toward getting a new job

 

Write out your vindictiveness on paper and go somewhere and burn it. Jump up and down on the ashes until you sweat.

[Royltnxile]

After reviewing this thread I would conclude that your ex "P" has very low self esteem and serious commitment and intimacy issues. His desire to sleep around stems from the fact that one girl is never going to be enough for him. Yes, he seems to be inconsiderate, untrustworthy, and selfish..and why would you want someone like that, especially if you have to do do all the emotional work, only to be still kept on the backburner while he sees whoever he wants? Not to mention his drug usage and sexual problems. The guy sounds like a mess in many ways.

 

I agree with the others. Anything less than an exclusive commitment from him (after being exclusive before..you can't go in reverse) is nothing more than a "bang buddy" type of arrangement.

[curlygirl47]

This fellow was happily married for thirteen years, and lived with his wife for four years before that --- so clearly one woman can be enough for him. He was very hurt in his divorce. I'm not defending some of the crappy things he's done to me, but he's not a terrible person or a "dog." All that said, this is Day 5 of No Contact, the sadness has come back, but I'm doing okay.