coming up on 23, and still not a thing hapenning...

[JamesKeane]

yes people, no kissing, no nothing. Cut the crap, i know its abnormal, but just how abnormal? anyone else like this?

 

thanks,

james.

[Jinx]

I don't know as though I'd personally call it abnormal. I've known enough people to realize there are more than we think that have not participated in such activities.

 

Its along the lines of Yes, Virgins still do exist as do many people whom were not engaged in relationships during their teenage years. Thus grouping together those which haven't kissed or touched another in a related manner. I think the media goes a tad bit far by portraying the idea that everyone should have a partner and done this and that before they're 25 or else they're doomed to be lonely.

 

If you would like to find someone to scoot this along the way, you'll have to take the first step in going out and meeting people. Given this is under Dating and Shy people, you'll need to tune up your social skills I suppose. Attend parties, clubs, etc..., social meeting areas and just introduce yourself at random with people and strike up small talk and see where it goes. Most of the time you'll make a lot of acquaintances, some friends and may even find a potential girlfriend after mingling. There are few details here so I'm not sure how to speak on your confidence level among other things which may be related to this fact you originally posted about.

[phishgirl]

James-you're NOT abnormal whatsoever--get that out of your head RIGHT NOW.

 

You know what you like. You have likely had a crush or been attracted to others in the past. BUT-difference is- you haven't acted on your attractions, or have been too afraid to.

 

Consider this, as I have lived by this rule: never have regrets about what you haven't done.

 

Ask someone out. Think this when you do: WHAT WILL I HAVE ACTUALLY LOST IF I ASK THIS PERSON OUT FOR A DATE AND THE ANSWER IS NO???

 

What I consider later when putting myself on the line like that is this: will I ever see this person again? Likely not, as I am free. I can do as I please. i can remove myself from this situation as my life is my own.

 

My philosophy. Utilize whether you agree. I asked my bf out when I was 6 years younger and unexperienced (never had a bf before) and never thought I'd have a chance. We've been together for over 4 years.

[heloladies21]

Dude, i'll give you some sites which will help you change your life and get the girls you want.

[Trax]

James, I was similar to you. I was a late bloomer if you will. Start hanging out with friends and going places where there are lots of people around. Sooner or later you'll meet girls by either going up and talking to them or even being introduced to a few through friends. Just be yourself, be calm and confident. I used to think that I'd never meet someone, but you know what? When I least expected it, was the time I met my now ex-girlfriend. We hit if off instantly and never looked back. You'll meet someone eventually you just gotta have confidence in YOURSELF.

 

This is a little off topic, but phishgirl are you into the band Phish? I'm a huge fan and its good to see others around here as well.

[darkblue]

Agreed.

 

What makes you think it's 'abnormal'?

[summer_in_greece]

There is lots of good advice on the internet on picking up girls, and it works. Lets listen to what heloladies has to say...

 

 

Dude, i'll give you some sites which will help you change your life and get the girls you want.

[JamesKeane]

an amazing amount of advice from very little.

 

To expand your horizons a little more, 'picking up girls' scares the hell out of me. If i meet women i try to become their friend because as much as i would like to take things further i just think, why on earth would they want to go any further with me?!

 

There was a girl i was infactuated with once, we became good friends, and i thought we were getting close, but looking back on it now, i did most of the talking, gave up friendships for her, it was definitely a one way thing, but she went to uni just when i thought she was very interested and got shacked up with a bloke after being there for only a week. I found out, took it very badly and broke off any relations with her, taking it very personally.

 

After that I was very happy that i didn't 'try anything' as i would have probably felt worse, but since then when there seems like there may be a chance that I could get close to someone, I just assume it will happen all over again.

 

My self esteem is below bottom. There was another time when a girl came onto me strong. she was the only just ex of a good friend of mine, and it in hind sight, pretty sure she was trying it on with me to get back at her ex. So being used is another assumtion i make when things start happening.

 

Aside from all that I was bullied at school, I am aware of the affect this has had on me, but it doesn't stop me believing what those people said to me everyday.

 

All in all i have no self belief, so i haven't done those things that it seems the majority of people in their late teens like going out every night and getting off with random birds. consequently my social skills are next to none, and that viscous circle that needs to be broken by going out and meeting people seems like it will never be broken.

 

I swore to myself that I would never write / say this kind of stuff because i think its self indulgent and pointless, and would make me even less attractive. as soon as i told someone what had happened in my past i reckon they would run a mile.

 

Being so inexperienced also makes me think that people would not be interested in me.

 

True I am the nice guy, and women say that nice guys can get girls, but i just dont see it happening except in movies.

 

My close friends that I do hang out with have boyfriends / girlsfriends that they have had for years so i get no exposure of others chatting up girls / guys so i am lost when i try to think of how i would approach such situations myself.

 

I keep telling myself that there will be a girl interested in me one day, and she will do the work, and that will be great but i also think that if she told me she was, i would laugh and say you must be kidding?! your interested in me!? but surely you can do better.

 

So here i am on another saturday night in alone. sorry people. It gets worse when i can't think of anyone that hasn't had a relationship of some kind. I feel pathetic for writing this. and if you may want to reply and tell me to shut up and get a life, please dont. i've heard enough of it already. again sorry. whats even more tragic is that my mum has asked me if i'm gay. she says, james you are miserable. When ever she brings up the whole girlfriend issue like, do you want a girlfriend? i say yes, if it happens it happens, i'm not really looking. You may gather that i'm a very secretive person, which doesn't help. Me and expression dont really go together, of if i do maybe by drawing or something, i hide it from everyone, thinking again that its self indulgent.

 

I'm very interested in computers, yes i know thats awful too. i obviously assume the obvious that girls aren't interested in guys that are geeks.

 

If at work i need to work with a woman, then i always try to focus on the work. I suppose i have put up some unbreakable barrier to stop myself getting hurt because i just assume i will.

 

ok that enough of this bull. sorry for boring everyone. I half hope this reply doesn't get read.

[billuser]

Hello.

 

I am pretty much the same with the difference that I am 27. I know it is

pathetic, but there is nothing I can do about that.

 

My self esteem does not exist. Every time I look in the mirror (I try to

avoid it) I say to myself : "look at you, you are ugly and you want a girlfriend?...", I am fat and ugly, that's why I never had one before.

 

Anyway, women are attracted from those who have self confindence and are not ugly (every woman has her own ell about ugly men). I know that,

I have nothing of these two.

 

I think that every girl I meet thinks : "look at him, he is ugly!", and this is

very bad, espesially when I meet a girl that I like.

 

I have male friends, when I am with them it's OK, I know we are having

good time and I know I am not boring or annoying but girls don't spend

time with me, so no girl has ever rejected me because they think I am not good for company (maybe I am not, but they cannot know that if

they have not spend some time with me, not even one date... never...),

they are just rejecting me for my bad looks.

 

There was this girl once, I met her from a friend of mine and we started

to talk through the telephone, everyday for about 3 or 4 hours, every

time we went out, my friend was also there, once I told her to go to a

movie together and she said yes, but when she realized that my friend

was not going to come, she cancelled it. Later my friend and she, bacame

a couple.

 

If you are still 22/23 I think there is time for you to find a g/f. but I think that if you get older, like my age, then it is going to be very difficult. So, try your best now.

 

I am really sorry I will say this, I should not be happy if there are people

that thinks the same way as I do (I know it is VERY depressing, I cry

very often) but somehow I feel some consolation if I know that there are

other people like me. It sounds egoistic, I know, but that's how I feel.

 

oops... a tear fell...

 

Good luck man.

 

P.S. The most normal thing for the livings, is life, the continuation of it, so,

the not continuation of life is not normal, is abnormal. If one is not

able to act for the benefit of this "normal thing", e.g. multiplication,

then, I think that he is abnormal. I know I am. I hope you will get

out of it soon.

[billuser]

Oh, and please, I don't want to listen to any more of these : "You will find a g/f, you 'll see", I know a few people in their late 40s that never had a g/f before.

[ShySoul]

billuser and JamesKeane,

 

I've felt just as you have and at times have convinced myself I will always be alone. I've pictured myself 40 and alone before, never having had anything resembling a relationship. I've told myself that something was wrong with me, that no girl would ever like me. I've frozen around girls I like, unable to say what I was feeling. I've questioned my personality, my looks, even if maybe I was just born to be a guy that is always alone. I've cried over it. I've been angry and blamed myself and the world.

 

You know what that attitude got me?........ Being alone.

 

If you keep saying something is wrong with you, you are going to convince yourself of it. You'll become the very thing you don't want to be. You'll become bitter and angry and that attitude will turn off anyone who might be attracted to you.

 

billuser, your post demonstrates this. You automatically closed yourself off to even registering the idea that you will find a gf. If you don't believe it will happen, you will find a way to make sure it doesn't happen. That's what has happened to the guys you know. And as long as you believe what you are saying, that is what is going to happen to you.

 

When I thought like that, I was at my worst. I had nothing going for me. But then someone told me that I was just great the way I was and that in the end all the pain will be worth it. She told me off all the good qualities I had and said not to change a thing. She said I would find someone special, that I would be happy and not to lose faith. I took that to heart and decided to stop worrying about it. I focused on who I am, doing what I like, and loving myself. Confidence went up. And a couple months later I'm meeting a wonderful girl who happens to fall for me. And she wasn't the only girl to become attracted to me recently.

 

I never thought I could have something special. I never believed in myself enough to take a chance and open my heart. That was the very thing that held me back. When I stopped thinking about relationships and started embracing who I am and just being me, thats when things came to me. If it worked for me, it can work for anyone.

[annie24]

Dude, i'll give you some sites which will help you change your life and get the girls you want.

 

Now, I don't know what sites or dating strategies you are talking about, but I think it's worth a shot. If you're not happy with the results you're getting (in work, dating, at the gym), then time to change things up. Sure, go to the websites, absorb the information. Try doing things differently for a few months and see if you get better results.

 

Like the quote, "If you're always doing what you've always done, then you'll always get what you've always got."

 

And work on building up your self-esteem! That is the key factor to focus on right now.

[ShySoul]

If you're always doing what you've always done, then you'll always get what you've always got."

 

Or he get the love and happiness you've always wanted and all your dreams come true. The difference is in what you have always done. If you've always told yourself that you won't have something, you wont and attidude should be changed. If you're attitude is, it will come to me when its time, then you don't need to change a thing and it will come when its time.

 

Websites don't tell you anything you don't already know. Either that or its a bunch of nonsense designed to tell people want they want to hear. No one needs that stuff. All they need is to be themselves. Cause thats what attraction, relationships, and love is truly about.... appreciating who you are and finding someone who appreciates you just for you.

[annie24]

If you're attitude is, it will come to me when its time, then you don't need to change a thing and it will come when its time.

 

There is a time to wait and be patient, and then there is a time to go after what you want. Girls don't just knock on your door one day and love happens - boom! No one got their job just by sitting around and *waiting* for it to happen - no. They went out, got an education, put together a resume, and applied. You have to take some initiative.

 

Is he maximizing his opportunities to meet women? Going to church, becoming involved in social groups, going to the gym, asking friends to set him up on blind dates?

 

Bottom line: If you're not getting the results you want, time to change your strategy.

[heloladies21]

Websites don't tell you anything you don't already know. Either that or its a bunch of nonsense designed to tell people want they want to hear. No one needs that stuff. All they need is to be themselves. Cause thats what attraction, relationships, and love is truly about.... appreciating who you are and finding someone who appreciates you just for you.

 

Dude are you serious? My success rate has gone way up since I started researching this subject of getting girls and it's a ton of stuff I never knew. And as for "just be yourself"---I don't know any other way to be, but there are sides of my personality which I can bring out and conversational techniques which can help me communicate better with the opposite sex. People who don't understand this yet should do a little more research because there's more to it than "just be yourself" and here's a pat on the back.

[annie24]

I figure it's the same as learning physics or economics. For some people, those subjects just come easily and they don't need any extra help. But for the others, they have to buy more instructional books, and go to office hours and maybe even hire a tutor.

 

I knew a lot of people back in college who were literally physics geniuses. It came as easily to them as did breathing. If a person is trying to learn physics, and they naturally understand it, "be yourself" is sound advice, because it is what they naturally excel at. If you're talking to a person who has no clue about physics, "be yourself" is completely unhelpful. Those people need to learn how to learn physics.

 

I have a book on practically everything - from science to arabic to giving massages to managing finances to cooking to books on dating. I value all of the books, even if I don't agree with all their methods. I feel that there is something valuable to be learned from every source.

 

After all, none of us have it all figured out. If we did, we'd be too busy going on dates, and not on this website

[ShySoul]

There is a time to wait and be patient, and then there is a time to go after what you want. Girls don't just knock on your door one day and love happens - boom!

 

Well, when I was actively looking and being concerned with such things, I had a grand total of zero girls interested. When I shifted gears and just stopped being so concerned, that boosted up to at least half dozen that said they were interested in me, two who said they love me, and one sorta relationship. And that doesn't count other girls who have flirted with me, compared to none before. So girls have come a knockin on my door and I didn't have to do a thing.

 

If you are looking at relationships and comparing it to job searches, think you are missing out on the best parts of the experiences. It shouldn't be something you hunt for or make happen. It should be something pleasant that takes you by surprise and you get wrapped up in the wonder and magic.

 

You can maximize opportunites to meet women, still doesn't mean it will get you anywhere. The right person could be someone you meet at random while waiting for the bus. It could be the girl who lives next door who you see but never really talk to. It could be the person your best friend introduces you to. It could be anyone. Key is to just enjoy life and let things happen when they are suppose to happen.

 

I think dating is all common sense and learning to trust your gut. The only hard part is really believing in yourself. I didn't have any success, but not because i wasn't getting it, it was cause i had convinced myself that i didn't understand and i was doing things wrong. The second I changed that and saw I was doing what was right, everything changed. Confidence boosted, understood women, myself and dating better. Even had women tell me I understood everything perfectly despite never having a single date. And the ladies started to take notice of me.

 

Didn't need a guide or book. Didn't need to change something or shift tactics. I just had to go back to what my heart was telling me all along was right. And it worked.

[warlord110aglia]

Don't feel ashamed. I'd be much more proud to be in your shoes than to be one of those teens who has sex at age 14. I would hope that girls will find you very mature and responsible and should admire you for that. And don't be bothered by looking back at the past either. It doesn't matter what you have not done in the past. The past is gone. Whether it was filled with positive, negative, or no experiences at all it is worthless and dumb to worry about it. You must think of the present and the future. My recommendation is to still take your time and don't rush out just for the sake of tagging some chick. Big friggin deal. Others may brag, but you'll find that it's just not that big a deal. Take your time, be selective, and if you really fall for someone then go for it!

[b-ion]

I have been and are still in the shoes that you guys are in. I always blamed myself for not having a gf and seen that my friends had found special relationships in the girls that they've found. I never really went out or went clubbin or that sort of thing. Never really looked at people in the eye and when i talked to them i would always look down. Never really looked in the mirror at school b/c i was always afraid of what others saw in me. Being lonely really made me depressed and it showed through my grades, they were the lowest they've ever been. I always questioned my life here on earth and felt hopeless, thoughts of suicide became remmanant in my mind. There were times as well where my mom and uncle have called me gay b/c of my lack or should i say no friends who are girls. But one day that depression inside me changed for the better when i confessed to my mom that i was having trouble with everything - coping with school and with life, she set me up with an appointment with a pastor and things started from there. Overall he helped me with getting over the things in the past and helped me with my depression. But 1 sentence that he told me really hit home. If you dont' love yourself, how can anyone love you? I realized that in that instance i had to change not only for myself but for my family. The pastor set me up with a social group where now i find it easier for me to talk to people because they were so accepting in letting me apart of their lives. I also found my spirituality with god has increased and that everything happens for a reason and i have to keep working hard and setting goals. Although i still don't have a gf, that does not bother me as much as it used to. I've realized that there are more important issues in the world like poverty and that i should be grateful for the things that i have. Trying to be an optomist is hard since i've alway thought negatively but now when i go to school i've noticed that strangers are noticing me too.

[ShySoul]

If you dont' love yourself, how can anyone love you?

 

True. And even if someone does love you, you wouldn't be likely to accept it and thus you would still feel miserable.

 

I've realized that there are more important issues in the world like poverty and that i should be grateful for the things that i have.

 

Also true. Not having a relationship may hurt, but it will not destroy you unless you let it. And there is plenty more on this earth to enjoy and be concerned about.

[PocoDiablo]

He sounds like a nice guy---we'd like to keep him that way.

Ouch!

 

With all due respect, that's just ... that's just not right. Nice guys finish last, and he wants to grow to be a man. Don't hold him back.

 

Websites don't tell you anything you don't already know. Either that or its a bunch of nonsense designed to tell people want they want to hear.

I just had to laugh at this. Here we are, on a website, sharing our experiences... I guess we already all know everything?

 

Yeah, I know, you mean sites that SELL you something but that's overly broad.

 

For reference, some sites every nice guy should check out are:

 

link removed

link removed

link removed

link removed

 

Many of these sites have forums with people JUST LIKE US so don't bash them. Personally, I would say the first three sites focus more on self-improvement (VERY important) and picking up chicks (not really something I think is done very well, but the concepts are incredibly valuable) and the last one focuses on quality, long term, healthy relationships.

 

However, if you don't look them all over, you will miss key elements. I should also say that - obviously - not all the advice is good. Read it with a skeptical mind, and toss out the BS, and keep what works for you. It's that simple.

[Dating Coach]

Poco nails it again!

[ShySoul]

I just had to laugh at this. Here we are, on a website, sharing our experiences... I guess we already all know everything?

 

If people honestly look at the situations they are involved in, most of the time they already know what to do or could have avoided a problem with a little thought and common sense. People already know what to do deep down. But they allow feelings and emotions to overwhelm and confuse them, and outside forces to dictate how they should act. In most cases it is trying to take others advice that causes more problems when listening to your heart and your gut will get you where you want to be. Granted, there are some instances where we can benefit from others. But I find that most problems are a matter of common sense that people should deep down know the answer to, if they only trusted themselves more.

 

 

 

]

 

I'll review them in detail shortly. But I want to pose a question to the ladies. How do you feel about guys reading sites whose very titles say they are trying to teach guys to "seduce" you, to act "suave" and to "pick you up?"

[ShySoul]

Ok, so some things in the sites may be helpful. But you have to go through 99.9% of garbage to get to a couple of useful sentences. Yes, that is very helpful. It teaches you what NOT to do.

 

First, realize and accept the fact that you are probably an AFC (Average Frustrated Chump), a "nice guy". A guy who has no pick-up skills and rarely manages to close the deal with a chick. You're used to referring to getting laid as "getting lucky". Also, you are a guy who tends to supplicate in his behavior to women, especially good-looking women. Meaning, buying flowers for a woman when going out for coffee, putting her on a pedestal, and generally letting her walk all over you in the vain hope of somehow being seen as attractive enough in her eyes to want to sleep with you.

 

Right from the start it unfairly labels a guy who is nice as pretty much a loser with no knowledge of women to begin with. It ignores that fact that a nice guy is someone who treats a women with class and respect while still holding respect for himself. Instead of helping the guy to see the good things about him, the site starts of with insulting the guy. Why should a guy trust a site that is going to put him down from the very start? None of these things are a true nice guy, and to insinuate as such is making an unfair generalization.

 

If whatever you've been doing your whole life has been failing you, STOP. Begin to understand that you must learn new skills, build a whole new attitude, and change your current belief system.

 

But what is the definition of failing? Just because you haven't had a girlfriend marks you as a failure? Even if every girl you have ever known as told you that you are the guy girls love and end up with, that you understand women perfectly and that they wish more guys were like you? Even if you've had all kinds of girls flirting with you? Even if they would have gone out with you, if not for circumstances beyond either of your control that made it ill advised? Cause plenty of these "nice guys" have that kind of success.

 

And way should they have to completely revamp their belief system? If they believe in being nice and friendly, why change when that is what gets women in the end? Why change to a method of "seducing" and "getting laid?"

 

. Remember, you are basically re-programming yourself to overcome a lifetime of bad habits and useless advice from clueless people.

 

So people are computers now who need to be programmed? And this site is going to re-program you? Why should they be trusted when they don't even treat you as humans and give you respect. Also, why is the site calling other people who say these things as clueless? You mean my sister and friend, both of whom have been married for at least 10 years and give the same advice of being a "nice guy," are clueless? Shouldn't those people, of whom there are both men and women, who have been in long successful marriages be the ones who have the best clues? And all the people I know who have been in long successful marriages suggest being the "nice guy."

 

? The answer is, does it really make a difference? You either want to fix your life or not. If it takes 6 months or 4 years, every day after that will be a much better life

 

Ok, so when you think about it, the same argument can be made against the site. What difference does it make if you haven't had a girlfriend or aren't good at "seducing" women? Does it matter if it takes 6 more months or 4 more years to find real love? As long as the love you find is real, pure love that lasts. You want to fix your life? It's not going to be found in sites that teach you to seduce or get laid. It's going to be found in self improvement that comes from within and has nothing to do with relationships. These sites are not the answer, they do not help.

 

And thats just the first few paragraphs of the first site. Really, these sites disturb me. Guys, please don't listen to them.

 

Buy (and READ!) David DeAngelo's eBook. David's business practices are very professional and helpful, he knows how to treat customers.

 

I've already posted on that guy in the past and showed why he is a fraud.

 

Go out in the field and and experiment, practice, get some phone numbers, e-mails, meet a whole bunch of women.

 

So you want to use women for practice? Not actually be interested in them, but just use them as a means of experimenting? What a way to treat women, as means to an end.

 

Find a guy near you who is great with women and *model* after him. Find out how he goes about things, his attitudes, the way he talks to people and, specifically, how he talks to and deals with women. Then find another similar expert and model after him. And another. And another.

 

So you are being advised to become a clone of another "player." Well what if you do that, but the guy you are modelling after does so by being a nice, respectful guy who never thinks about picking up or seducing a women? What if you model yourself after another guy who has got a long term real relationship through the very things these sites are against and don't recommend?

 

That's right, free your mind and forget EVERYTHING. Realize that it's all been "wax on, wax off" in preparation for the ultimate in mastery: absolute yet unconscious competence, the ability to get what you want without effort.

 

So the website admits that everything it has been trying to get you to do, you shouldn't do? Well, why go through all the hassle just to tell the person what I've been saying all along, that deep down you already know what to do? Cut through the 99% BS of the sites and just get to the heart of the matter. Just let people know that they are right and good just the way they are and all they have to do is believe in themselves. Learning to seduce women isn't going to improve confidence, it is just as likely... no... way more likely to cause you to look down on yourself for treating women in that way.

[PocoDiablo]

I'd be curious to see how other people feel as well. It's funny that no one else has replied.

 

Folks?

 

I know I learned a lot from those sites. However, as I mentioned, "not all the advice is good. Read it with a skeptical mind, and toss out the BS, and keep what works for you. It's that simple."

 

I personally like the Doc Love advice because he teaches you to be a gentleman and focuses on LONG TERM and QUALITY relationships - which is why I linked to it. 5 million other men can't be wrong! Some of the other sites are plain disrespectful towards women and I - as mentioned - don't subscribe to them wholeheartedly. However, that does not change the fact that the concepts can be valuable. I read that stuff and realized that I acted like a big baby and made myself look like an idiot. Doh!

 

I could never tell when a woman was interested in me. I always got stuck dating golddiggers who ABSOLUTELY took advantage of my kind and understanding nature. After dating nearly 20 women, and being married for 11 years, I hated women because I thought they were all evil.

 

No, in fact, I was wrong. I just happened to allow myself to be talked down to, mistreated, and generally taken advantage of. Those sites helped me learn how to recognize what I was doing wrong, and improve myself and be a gentleman as well as recognize a great woman who is perfect for me. After reading those sites I went on only ONE date and asked for only ONE phone number. Why? Because I knew she was perfect for me. Two years later and I still cannot believe how happy we are. It's just crazy, I never thought it could be true. Talk about soulmates... what I have now blows that concept out of the water.

 

All that thanks to reading other sites, books, and information with an open mind.

 

I can just as easily attack points of view that disagree with me but there is no point in trying to supress information. I don't want to live in China, we are in the USA. Welcome.