Got a job offer, and I need your objective advice

[DarkCh0c0]

15 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Great point.  Me, too.  And for the OP given her recent past with the ER maybe I wouldn't try this out on this job -but the probationary period might be a great way to compromise.

I understand, but my argument is:

4 hours ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

: I also managed to answer the CEO the way you did. But it's like, just because I can handle his type, didn't mean I have to every day.

I've been in toxic workplaces since the beginning of my career. I never listened to my gut or left when I should have. There's a high risk that knowing myself I'll be susceptible to staying/enduring things above my capacity. I do have way better coping skills now, and I know how to push back, but I wish for once to work in a place where my mental health won't be affected because some people are having tantrums all the time, getting manipulative, and so forth. With my experience, I know I'd be dealing with this for sure in this place.

I'm happy to take on a heavy workload, high responsibilities, and pressure so long the people I report are more sharp and professional. I'm an asset to any company who would hire me. Proof is, I barely landed 3 business days in my country, and I landed an executive offer and managed to wow them.

But they didn't wow me.

[Batya33]

4 minutes ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

I understand, but my argument is:

I've been in toxic workplaces since the beginning of my career. I never listened to my gut or left when I should have. There's a high risk that knowing myself I'll be susceptible to staying/enduring things above my capacity. I do have way better coping skills now, and I know how to push back, but I wish for once to work in a place where my mental health won't be affected because some people are having tantrums all the time, getting manipulative, and so forth. With my experience, I know I'd be dealing with this for sure in this place.

I'm happy to take on a heavy workload, high responsibilities, and pressure so long the people I report are more sharp and professional. I'm an asset to any company who would hire me. Proof is, I barely landed 3 business days in my country, and I landed an executive offer and managed to wow them.

But they didn't wow me.

In my experience I didn't realize how much more I could grow as far as thick skin, communication etc especially since when I started in the corporate world in the late 80s/early 90s and with full force in 1994 there was no email or ways of communicating like that so I had to learn how to deal with challenging people through email etc as my career progressed -it's a different skill than meeting face to face or having a phone call.  So I defer to you as far as whether you're willing to keep dealing with this.  Also know as you do know I'm sure  you can accept a job, and then management/the team changes shortly after you start and it's not as pleasant...

[boltnrun]

I don't see why it's necessary to subject yourself to a toxic environment in order to build your career. 

[ShySoul]

3 hours ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

I've been in toxic workplaces since the beginning of my career. I never listened to my gut or left when I should have. There's a high risk that knowing myself I'll be susceptible to staying/enduring things above my capacity.

Have a friend who stayed in a workplace that was unhealthy for her. She loved what she did, but wasn't respected as much as she should have been. When new management came in let her go, it devestated her. All the stress and hurt that had built up soon caused her health issues that put her in a hosiptal for a week. 

No job is worth that. There will be other jobs, but there is only one you. Priortize your physical and mental health first. 

From the sound of things, you are skilled and should be able to find something fairly easily. Assuming you are in a position to take your time, don't be afraid to make sure the place you choose will be right for you. 

[rainbowsandroses]

@DarkCh0c0when I first began my career in legal, I was placed by a temp agency at a large prestigious firm in my city.  I had NO legal experience just a paralegal certificate.

I began working for a top partner who after two weeks offered me the permanent position.  Before I accepted, literally everyone there warned me that he was extremely difficult, he had gone through many assistants, the last one had walked out with NO notice, he was demanding and often unreasonable!

The salary was what a paralegal would earn after 10 years and I had a mere two weeks working with this man.

Well guess what?  I accepted the position and while it was challenging and difficult at times, we got along great, and I stayed for three years until he left the firm.  He asked me to join but I chose to stay at the current firm.

To this day, my former boss and I still keep in touch, working for him opened many doors for me as he is a top gun in the legal field in our city and even our state!  

My point is, everyone will have a different experience working at the same company with the same people.

Everyone warned me about G, assistants had literally walked out but I had a very positive experience that I cherish to this day!  

What you're hearing about this company is essentially hearsay, you may get there and have a completely different experience!

Try to let go of fears from your previous job.  That's like saying you don't trust and will reject a new man you just met and never had one date with because your EX boyfriend cheated. 

Is that fair?  I don't think so. 

I will say though, you won't have a positive experience if you walk in on your first day with a fearful and negative attitude.

Negative energy = negative experience.

Positive energy = positive experience.

With exceptions of course but generally speaking that's how energy works.  You can create your own experience through your own energy. 

Again you are in the fortunate position of having a probationary period.  Why not take advantage of that?

JMO but I see what you're thinking of doing (reneging on the offer you accepted) as a form of avoidance based on past fears and hearsay. 

Just some things to consider @DarkCh0c0that's all.  You do YOU.

Again, good luck whatever you decide. 😀

 

 

 

[DarkCh0c0]

2 hours ago, boltnrun said:

don't see why it's necessary to subject yourself to a toxic environment in order to build your career

Likewise @boltnrun, likewise. 

@ShySoul that is my pov too. I've had my share of toxic environments. I've been medicated, at the ER and in dark places in my life because of this. 

The difference is that I'm staying with my family now, so there are no bills to pay and my family is very supportive. My parent thought I am rushing as I just got here and haven't explored the market yet. They keep encouraging me to stay as much as I want. No pressure there thankfully. 

@rainbowsandroses it's not an opinion I got from other people. It's the CEO and manager who informed me of the negative reputation. When I mentioned there must be some truth for such bad reputation and we can investigate, the manager didn't seem to like that.

[rainbowsandroses]

57 minutes ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

It's the CEO and manager who informed me of the negative reputation.

The HR manager of the firm informed me of same about G (former boss).  She wanted me to have all the information (including all the negative) because the turnover had been so high and they needed someone who would stick around!  

I considered it a challenge and accepted and it turned out to be a very positive experience. 

Of course I had already been working for him for two weeks and for ME it wasn't bad. 

Challenging?  Yes!  Did I work my ass off?  Yes!  Was he demanding? Yes! 

But it was a fabulous opportunity, great experience for me as I was beginning my career and I was determined to make it work and it did. 

Anyway, I sense you're leaning towards declining and that's OK!

Not trying to talk you out of it, again you should do what feels best and comfortable for you. 

But try to not allow your fears and anxieties to steer your ship, that's all I'm trying to say really. 

 

[Batya33]

3 hours ago, boltnrun said:

I don't see why it's necessary to subject yourself to a toxic environment in order to build your career. 

It's not.  We don't know if it is yet -if it is she can leave.  I personally learned a lot dealing with challenging people and teams and bosses. Short of actual abuse/harassment "toxic" is a range and can be subjective or temporary. Some industries have more of it for sure and it's up to the person whether the benefit of being in that industry is worth dealing with more challenging types and difficult types.  For me it was -but in one case it actually was toxic.  In that case I started interviewing.  However it ended up my whole team left anyway and we went elsewhere so I was able to go with them.  

To me actual abuse and harassment is far more objective.  What is toxic often depends on the person's sensitivities. I advised the OP that since she is more sensitive to working with difficult people perhaps that means she should not take the job.  I learned a lot from working with difficult people and am glad I stuck out difficult situations to advance my career.  Others can make different choices!

[delmarvausa]

@DarkCh0c0 I'm afraid anything I contribute here has probably already been said, however I feel concerned enough to say it again. Please trust your gut. If something feels wrong from the get-go, maybe it's your instinct giving you a message? You sound very articulate and intelligent, so I'd think you might be able to easily get a different job by looking elsewhere. I think your desire to have a bit of a challenge in this possible position is admirable, however change does not necessarily happen in toxic environments. Quite often, a difficult/dysfunctional culture has occurred over some time, and old patterns with the same toxic people can be tough to break; as I said, I admire you wanting a challenging role, but is it work placing yourself in an overly complex environment? Maybe there is anothef much better career path out there for you which may not involve quite as much potentially damaging scenarios. I hope you find the right decision and are at peace with it. 🙏

[boltnrun]

My current job has many challenging aspects but it's the work itself, not the environment. I no longer wish to subject myself to toxic work environments. I left my previous job even though up until the last few months I really liked it and my career was going up and up and up. But they turned extremely toxic when the pandemic hit and I realized with my anxiety it wasn't where I should be. And now I have my amazing job and I'm so grateful. Bonus is I'm making considerably more money!

[DarkCh0c0]

@delmarvausathank you for your kind input. 

I declined the offer on Saturday.

I found out that I was underpaid 40 to 50% the market rate. Thanks to family support, I got the courage to say "no, thank you" and keep looking. I wasn't aware of the current market pay rate as little data is available online due to the crisis, but a knowledgeable family member advised me on this offer and I'm confident with my decision.

I'm open to better opportunities as I attempt to break out of toxic workplaces! At least to some extent 🩷🩷 I'm very relieved and excited for what's next.

@boltnrun I agree with you too. @catfeeder @Batya33 @Andrina @ShySoul @rainbowsandroses and everyone who contributed, thank you 🥰 

[Batya33]

3 hours ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

@delmarvausathank you for your kind input. 

I declined the offer on Saturday.

I found out that I was underpaid 40 to 50% the market rate. Thanks to family support, I got the courage to say "no, thank you" and keep looking. I wasn't aware of the current market pay rate as little data is available online due to the crisis, but a knowledgeable family member advised me on this offer and I'm confident with my decision.

I'm open to better opportunities as I attempt to break out of toxic workplaces! At least to some extent 🩷🩷 I'm very relieved and excited for what's next.

@boltnrun I agree with you too. @catfeeder @Batya33 @Andrina @ShySoul @rainbowsandroses and everyone who contributed, thank you 🥰 

Onwards and upwards and it is great to hear how supportive your family is.