Is this common in dating?

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, catfeeder said:

If you seek a man who is capable of bonding on an intellectual and emotional level first and a sexual level only secondarily to that,

I think it can happen all at once -and the couple chooses not to act on the sexual chemistry by having sex.  Enjoy the chemistry, enjoy kissing, holding hands, touching - get to know each other physically that way and enjoy the sexual and romantic and passionate feelings. Later you'll get to know each other as far as having intercourse and expressing sexual feelings that way.  Just like people don't share all emotionally either from the get go. 

Knowing your partner physically and sexually is just as important as emotionally and intellectually - but to me unless you are very particular about technique/positions or have a fetish no need to "test drive" as far as compatibility -if you enjoy and are passionate when kissing and touching then intercourse is another way to express that -it's just that sharing your body through intercourse has risks -emotional and physical -that other forms don't.  Especially if you want a long term relationship.

I know couples who had sex when they first met and when they second and third met and got married and were very happy! In general I think early sex and casual sex has more risks as far as potentially hurting the chances of a long term serious relationship than waiting does.  I had several reasons to wait - that was one of them.  The women I know who ended up jaded about men (I wasn't) often got that way because of lying to themelves about wanting casual sex or "needing it" and then feeling "used."

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

You might also want to try real person dating and meet regularly at public places to get to know a man better.  Sometimes something gets lost in translation doing everything electronically (online dating / excessive texting / emails,  etc.) 

Or,  local online dating and then meet regularly at public places to get better acquainted so you can observe personality and character with scrutiny. 

I never dated online.  I met in person ASAP after first contacting on a dating site with one exception - which I didn't regret but wasn't the best use of my time for sure.  I met over 100 men in person and communicated with far more -my 15-20 minute phone call weeded out those who weren't for me for one reason or the other so I met very few men who acted like jerks in person.

[Sindy_0311]

30 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I never dated online.  I met in person ASAP after first contacting on a dating site with one exception - which I didn't regret but wasn't the best use of my time for sure.  I met over 100 men in person and communicated with far more -my 15-20 minute phone call weeded out those who weren't for me for one reason or the other so I met very few men who acted like jerks in person.

So is it fair to assume that online dating didn’t lead to anything for you? Because to what I understood you married your coworker. A friend of mine told me yesterday to stop online dating and to just wait for someone to show up in real life. It’s been two years now and I don’t see any result with those guys… like OP. 
 

[Batya33]

6 minutes ago, Sindy_0311 said:

So is it fair to assume that online dating didn’t lead to anything for you? Because to what I understood you married your coworker. A friend of mine told me yesterday to stop online dating and to just wait for someone to show up in real life. It’s been two years now and I don’t see any result with those guys… like OP. 
 

It led to several marriages and LTRs for a number of my friends.  I never waited for someone to show up in real life as I wanted marriage and family I knew I had to show up and be proactive.  And I was.  One is sending his youngest off to college in August!  Another has a 15 year old son with her long term partner, two others have teenage children and it goes on and on.

Also my husband had an online dating profile (not when we first dated -in between the times we dated) and he's awesome, my ex bf who is a fine human being had one as did many good men I knew through work, school, life, etc.  

I had a few short term relationships, one engagement via a personal ad, and I actually met some really good people including one who is now our personal IT consultant and two days ago I again am trying to set him up with someone I know -they spoke last night for the first time! I think it helped me because I learned a lot about myself and my standards, it was a pleasant distraction at times when I was in between serious relationships, etc.  But nope -not to "the one."  

I also didn't go to dating sites exclusively.  I met men through friends, through work, through volunteer work, singles events, my apartment building, etc.  

[Cherylyn]

13 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I also didn't go to dating sites exclusively.  I met men through friends, through work, through volunteer work, singles events, my apartment building, etc.  

Me, too.  I met men in person which gave me a better idea of whom I was dating.  I generally knew from the first date if he was "the one" or not.  Most often,  not.  Being with a men in real life is a better way to observe personality,  character,  background and determine if there will be a second date or not. 

There is less guessing in real life.  There's more room for misinterpretation and misunderstandings going the online route IMHO. 

[Sindy_0311]

15 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I think it helped me because I learned a lot about myself and my standards, it was a pleasant distraction at times when I was in between serious relationships, etc.  But nope -not to "the one."  

 

I learn a lot too, and somehow enjoy meeting new people. But still I tend to believe that it’s a loss of time. So easier to meet guys in real life without all this texting/ call process, which in my opinion, diminishes the excitement, spontaneity and therefore the quality of the person you are going to meet… 

[Batya33]

Just now, Cherylyn said:

Me, too.  I met men in person which gave me a better idea of whom I was dating.  I generally knew from the first date if he was "the one" or not.  Most often,  not.  Being with a men in real life is a better way to observe personality,  character,  background and determine if there will be a second date or not. 

There is less guessing in real life.  There's more room for misinterpretation and misunderstandings going the online route IMHO. 

Also often you get to see how they interact with others -wait staff, etc.  Eye contact/body language/vibes. Is the person on time and if not is there a sincere apology? Like that. 

I often did not know by the first meet so if I was on the fence and he asked me out for a real date I gave it up to 4 dates to see if there was potential.  I met a lovely woman at a wedding once- she was there with her husband.  She said she "liked" her husband on each date but wasn't sure until the 4th date (that's not why I came up with my standard just how it happened for her)

. They knew each other through work and he asked her out -nice person -so she agreed.  But after the 4th date -bam she knew.  Happily married.  I know of all sorts of knowing including knowing right away -then not knowing or knowing it is wrong -down the road.  

[Batya33]

Just now, Sindy_0311 said:

I learn a lot too, and somehow enjoy meeting new people. But still I tend to believe that it’s a loss of time. So easier to meet guys in real life without all this texting/ call process, which in my opinion, diminishes the excitement, spontaneity and therefore the quality of the person you are going to meet… 

I went on so many blind dates that online dating sites was no different really except for the safety screen. Fairly often we knew people in common so that helped too.

One or two emails, one phone call.  No process.  I met them in real life.  I didn't need excitement or spontaneity of that type (other types yes!) and since I had a list of musts sometimes profiles were really helpful in weeding out the deal breakers. Pretty short list but made it easier to screen.  I was dating to marry and hopefully have a child - so that was the exciting part and I loved being spontaneous within a relationship.  

[Batya33]

5 minutes ago, Sindy_0311 said:

I learn a lot too, and somehow enjoy meeting new people. But still I tend to believe that it’s a loss of time. So easier to meet guys in real life without all this texting/ call process, which in my opinion, diminishes the excitement, spontaneity and therefore the quality of the person you are going to meet… 

Also I worked such crazy unpredictable hours that it was easier to fit in first meets than go to long events in the hopes I'd meet someone.  

[Cherylyn]

3 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Also often you get to see how they interact with others -wait staff, etc.  Eye contact/body language/vibes. Is the person on time and if not is there a sincere apology? Like that. 

 

I agree.  People always observe how they treat others.  My husband is kind and respectful to all.  For men,  he's the first to reach out and shake their hands during greetings (or introductions) and good-bye.  I like that.  (Pre-covid).  He's also a big tipper whether dine in or take out.  Another huge plus because he isn't cheap and has compassion (empathy) for low wage earners.  He told me long ago that waiters and waitresses tend to be starving students or single parents.  I had to marry him! 

He's the type to sincerely apologize.  It comes from being selfless and humble.  It was how he was raised by awesome parents and a normal upbringing with his siblings.

Other people apologizing in my life?  Hmph! 😒 Only in my fantasy dreams.  They should take lessons from my husband. 🧡

I agree,  in real life observation is best and most accurate.  Too much can be misconstrued electronically.

[lostandhurt]

Make them wait and earn your time.  They will show their cards soon enough.

I am not saying you cannot do some physical stuff like kissing because lets face it if he is a bad kisser there is no reason to keep seeing him.

 There are good guys out there that want what you want, distinguishing them from the guys trying to play as many women at once as possible is the hard part. 

 The sudden lack of effort or interest is simply because they are working several women at once and the women that are making them wait or haven't given in yet get more effort. Once the goal is achieved they put you in the touch base once in a while column so they can get some more sex in the future.

 I think doing both online and in real life is the key as it will help keep you balanced.

 Don't give up but if what you are doing is not working then it is time to try a new tack.

 Lost

[Batya33]

10 hours ago, lostandhurt said:

Make them wait and earn your time.  They will show their cards soon enough

I think it works much better if long term is the goal if the values align. 

So if it's just about "make him wait" out of some notion that people who enjoy having sex right away must be players -as opposed to the OP truly believing it's in her best interests to wait for her own well being and alignment with her values - that often will not be a good look -the vibe is off- it's too much gamesmanship. Yes as one factor but if the OP believes that for her the best approach is having sex early on -it's more fun for her, exciting, she believes this is how she gets to know a man  - she should find someone who feels as she does.

Just because that would never have been me it's obvious that others feel differently including people who've posted here and elsewhere about enjoying sex right away and having a really good, loving and healthy long term relationship or marriage with their partner. 

I avoided feeling or acting jaded about "men" and men "only want sex" -it's not true.  Some men do, some women do.  Such is life.

[Jaunty]

On 6/5/2023 at 2:01 AM, TacticalLinguine said:

It's exhausting. I wish I could just be myself, act how I'm feeling and be genuine. I don't want to play games. 

Of course, and that's exactly what you need to do.  The "right" guys will appreciate you for who you are,  and the others will fall away.  

Keep in mind, though, that the MAJORITY of the men you date are not going to be your partner.  You have to accept that and not take it as personal rejection.  Sometimes you'll feel like they WERE going to be your partner and they didn't feel the same way; that can hurt.  But it's part of dating.

The pattern you describe sounds pretty typical, at least up to a point.  When the guys are fading out, that just means that you and they aren't going to be going on to any "next level."  When you withdraw, they will still contact you for sex because they have learned from experience that you're okay with being sexual without a  committed relationship having been established.  

If this pattern is hurtful for you, it's up to you to change the pattern. This doesn't mean that you can't "be yourself."  

 

[Sindy_0311]

38 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

Of course, and that's exactly what you need to do.  The "right" guys will appreciate you for who you are,  and the others will fall away.  

Keep in mind, though, that the MAJORITY of the men you date are not going to be your partner.  You have to accept that and not take it as personal rejection.  Sometimes you'll feel like they WERE going to be your partner and they didn't feel the same way; that can hurt.  But it's part of dating.

The pattern you describe sounds pretty typical, at least up to a point.  When the guys are fading out, that just means that you and they aren't going to be going on to any "next level."  When you withdraw, they will still contact you for sex because they have learned from experience that you're okay with being sexual without a  committed relationship having been established.  

If this pattern is hurtful for you, it's up to you to change the pattern. This doesn't mean that you can't "be yourself."  

 

I think there is a problem with waiting for exclusivity to have sex. Me personally, I couldn't go exclusive with a guy without trying him. I mean, for me physical intimacy and sexual compatibility is as important than the rest, if not more... So how could I pretend to be exclusive, or asking him to be if once we tried I don't like it for any reason... I also know that my feelings or my attachment cannot grow if I don't get intimate with a guy. How can you be exclusive with someone that you don't feel completely. This is the drama of my dating life LOL

[rainbowsandroses]

I think if a guy is going to freak out or become turned off after sex and bolt OR his only goal was having sex, it won't matter if you have sex on the third date or 20th date.

Many women have been "pumped and dumped" after waiting weeks or sometimes months.  Other women like myself have had LTRs after having early sex.

There is no way to know for certain, it's all a risk no matter how you slice and dice.

But if you learn to become resilient and have trust in yourself that you will be OK no matter what the outcome, your partner will feel that energy and chances are everything will be fine. 

On the other hand, if you become anxious and act on that anxiety, seeking reassurance and validation and become too attached to the outcome, your partner will feel that negative energy and become turned off. 

The reality is it's all a risk that you must be willing to take imo.  There are no guarantees.

[Batya33]

24 minutes ago, Sindy_0311 said:

I think there is a problem with waiting for exclusivity to have sex. Me personally, I couldn't go exclusive with a guy without trying him. I mean, for me physical intimacy and sexual compatibility is as important than the rest, if not more... So how could I pretend to be exclusive, or asking him to be if once we tried I don't like it for any reason... I also know that my feelings or my attachment cannot grow if I don't get intimate with a guy. How can you be exclusive with someone that you don't feel completely. This is the drama of my dating life LOL

Yes for sure if that is how you view intercourse then don't wait -do the test drive! I knew if we had chemistry, passion, and enjoyed kissing and touching the intercourse would be great too. And if not great the first time we were already in love and motivated to make it even better.

  I too loved expressing intimacy by being affectionate, sexual and romantic.  I didn't need to have intercourse to do that - intercourse was one other way to do that.  If you do then for sure don't wait! I felt completely without intercourse. I wanted to be a virgin when I married and I was engaged at one point -after we broke up I decided I wasn't going to wait till marriage.  I had sex with my next boyfriend after about a year of dating.  

And I knew for me I wouldn't enjoy sex without being in love, exclusivity, potential for marriage.  The best sex I had before I was married was in that situation and especially when I was engaged.  Also trying to conceive was really fun most of the time!

It depends how one views sex and its role in a relationship.  

[Batya33]

8 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

The reality is it's all a risk that you must be willing to take imo.  There are no guarantees

I think it's a much bigger risk with early sex -couples who wait know each other better and a woman or man who is focused heavily on bedding their partner is not going to wait months.  

[rainbowsandroses]

24 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I think it's a much bigger risk with early sex -couples who wait know each other better and a woman or man who is focused heavily on bedding their partner is not going to wait months.  

You'd be surprised. As I said, I know many women who have been broken up with or ghosted after having waited months. 

A man (or woman) may have waited because they thought they wanted a relationship to develop but then after sex completely changed their minds and feelings. 

Having sex was the driving force behind their feelings, hormones etc, once it happened after having waited, they did a complete 180.  This often surprised them as well it wasn't some sinister plan to get a woman into bed. 

I've heard this from several men actually. I don't think anyone truly knows how they will react after first time sex, that's why I believe it's all a risk. 

I don't think it matters a hill of beans how long a couple waits, it should happen when they're both comfortable and okay with the outcome no matter what that outcome turns out to be.

JMO. 

[Sindy_0311]

3 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I think if a guy is going to freak out or become turned off after sex and bolt OR his only goal was having sex, it won't matter if you have sex on the third date or 20th date.

Many women have been "pumped and dumped" after waiting weeks or sometimes months.  Other women like myself have had LTRs after having early sex.

There is no way to know for certain, it's all a risk no matter how you slice and dice.

But if you learn to become resilient and have trust in yourself that you will be OK no matter what the outcome, your partner will feel that energy and chances are everything will be fine. 

On the other hand, if you become anxious and act on that anxiety, seeking reassurance and validation and become too attached to the outcome, your partner will feel that negative energy and become turned off. 

The reality is it's all a risk that you must be willing to take imo.  There are no guarantees.

I’ve been thinking about this today. Because i also struggle a bit in dating. And finally, I came to the conclusion that you just have to do you. No matter if you have sex on the 3rd date or wait for exclusivity, when the right person appears, it will make no difference. We all have different lives, experiences, personalities. We all go on our own path. If guys withdraw after having sex, they just weren’t the one. You can do no wrong when you meet mr right. So my advice would be to just continue dating those men, being yourself, sleeping with them if you want to, and someday you will meet the one who will appreciate your authenticity and be aligned to your pace. Stop thinking that there is something wrong with you, or that you should change anything in your behavior. The only thing that’s wrong is that your man didn’t crossed your path yet. Be patient… 

[Jaunty]

4 hours ago, Sindy_0311 said:

I think there is a problem with waiting for exclusivity to have sex. Me personally, I couldn't go exclusive with a guy without trying him. 

I don't disagree with you.  

I will say that if someone; in this case the OP, has sex typically after 3 dates and then feels badly that the guy has faded, perhaps the answer is to wait longer.  NOT to "make them wait" or play hard to get, etc.  Just to spend more time getting to know, and choosing to move on without having had sex when it's clear that the guy is not going to be relationship material for them.  

Of course if the guy was mostly motivated to "get in her pants"  he still may bail after sex happens, but guys like that are less likely to keep hanging around and waiting.  Unfortunately, sometimes the sex is lackluster or even a turnoff, and that can kill interest for either or both parties.

[Sindy_0311]

2 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

  Unfortunately, sometimes the sex is lackluster or even a turnoff, and that can kill interest for either or both parties.

Let me rephrase: it can be a turn off for men that aren’t 100% into you…

I think there’s no way you can trigger interest just by making them wait. It’s either there or it’s not from the start. 
But I agree when you say OP should feel comfortable having sex no matter the outcome. I’ve had sex with guys after 3 dates knowing that it wouldnt lead anywhere and I was ok with it. But I also and huge cruches on guys I never slept with because I didn’t want to go to fast but at the end it didn’t change anything as I had a hard time letting them go as well… 

[Jaunty]

Just now, Sindy_0311 said:

Let me rephrase: it can be a turn off for men that aren’t 100% into you…

I think there’s no way you can trigger interest just by making them wait. It’s either there or it’s not from the start.   

 I agree 100%.  My point was that if the sex with the woman wasn't great, it can inspire a guy to lose interest and leave.  I mean, he was "test driving"  too.

 

[Sindy_0311]

3 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

 I agree 100%.  My point was that if the sex with the woman wasn't great, it can inspire a guy to lose interest and leave.  I mean, he was "test driving"  too.

 

Yea. Of course. I remember one guy I had a crush on, we slept together pretty soon and I didn’t like it. So, sometimes it’s easier to « test drive » to stop fantasize about someone. And somehow I find it easier to let go when I know the potential (or lack of) of the guy. At least I had a full picture and don’t fantasize about what it would have been like to sleep with him. It makes it easier for me to go next… 

[Batya33]

5 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I don't think it matters a hill of beans how long a couple waits, it should happen when they're both comfortable and okay with the outcome no matter what that outcome turns out to be.

Yes and the problem is many women lie to themselves that they are ok with casual sex but they are not and then when they regret it all of a sudden they were "used" by a player. I think it's unfortunately too often this happens.  Also if it's early on there's a greater risk of STDs as well as not knowing how to react to a pregnancy that results because it wasn't discussed in advance.  

So I do think it matters especially for those women who lie to themselves as far as expectations -men of course can have those as well.  I see it more often with women.

The other risk is without a foundation of a relationship there often is more focus on whether the sex -between near strangers and/or not committed loving partners was good - committed loving partners are going to be more committed to working out any imperfect kinks or laughing it off than people who don't know each other well.

JMO

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Sindy_0311 said:

Yea. Of course. I remember one guy I had a crush on, we slept together pretty soon and I didn’t like it. So, sometimes it’s easier to « test drive » to stop fantasize about someone. And somehow I find it easier to let go when I know the potential (or lack of) of the guy. At least I had a full picture and don’t fantasize about what it would have been like to sleep with him. It makes it easier for me to go next… 

Yes for a person who feels she can evaluate whether someone she doesn't know well is good in bed and make a decision based on that.  I knew I couldn't and knew I didn't ever wish to.  I wasn't focused on technique or position as much as I was focused on expressing our love and commitment through intercourse just as we'd also expressed it already in many other ways.  Intercourse enhanced what was there and as far as whether it worked perfectly or was a "success" didn't matter to me - we had time ahead of us to figure each other out as far as intercourse -no big deal.