What to make of all this....?

[BreakingBadHabits]

9 hours ago, lostandhurt said:

I know you want this to be all your fault because if it is your fault then you can change and fix it right?  Guess again, she  is all over the place you are just ignoring it because you miss her.

I know it's not all my fault but I feel I hold more of the blame than she does. I just feel that if I didn't shut down, or make her feel unwanted, let the relationship get boring, stopped showing affection, isolating myself - that maybe we wouldn't in the situation we're in. Maybe that wouldn't have drove her to start hanging out with (GUY). That's how my mind is currently processing this.  

[BreakingBadHabits]

5 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this happened. Focus on getting employment. Why exactly, were you both fired simultaneously?

Something missing about that story.

We were both part of the leadership team. We got a new District Manager and the DM came in talking crazy to most of the teammates. Caused 2 other tenured teammates to step down from their roles because DM didn't want anyone to have a voice other than DM. DM would shut people down, micromanage, killed the departments morale and I started getting calls from other teammates with some of the stuff DM was saying to them. Example, "I'm the DM, you don't need to follow up with me or tell me how to do my job. I'll follow up with you." Or when a teammate was stepping down from a leadership role, "I Don't care if you step down, the department will be fine without you". 

So me and my girlfriend addressed it. DM didn't like that so DM retaliated by saying we stole time and terminated us. Company was paying for housing so that's why we had to move out. 

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Are you living with your father? Have you severed all financial and other practical issues such as allowing her to collect her belongings?

Yes, I moved back in. Decided it would be best, not that I'm broke or didn't have money saved. Just felt that I needed a break from everything. She moved back to her moms, her mom lives in same neighborhood a block over. She still hasn't picked up her stuff that I have here. 

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Focus on yourself. You can write tomes about her cheating and other unseemly behaviors but the common denominator in your unhappy relationships and still living at home at 40, never marrying etc. is you.

I've been on my own since I was 20, first time being back home. A little weird but hopefully not for too long. Yes, my previous relationships weren't the best. I think that's why I was trying so hard with this one, because I was happy. I try to think back and see why I stopped certain behaviors that attracted her in the first place. 

 

 

 

[BreakingBadHabits]

5 hours ago, TONI20 said:

I know it is so hard to let go because you do have a history and lots of sentimental memories. 

However, she never felt your loss. She knew she can always pop in and out as she pleases. She even threatened to block you if this or that....no, no, no...

Yes, the memories are fresh and I only see the good ones. The threatening to block is childish, but as I had mentioned, for our ages we both can be childish. I have since realized that and have been working on it. 

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you admitted to your faults, to the time where you could not be the best partner- this is huge. Lots of people would not admit and just blame the other person.

Up until recently I wasn't taking responsibility for my actions or admitting to faults. I would deny and downplay things I did or just completely ignore it. Which was another one of her biggest complaints. 

I even told her that I was sorry it took all this to wake me up and see the damage I Was doing. I was blind to it, or just didn't realize what I Was doing. But when I felt like I was losing her I started reading up on relationships and reading up on the things she said were hurting her. That's why I sent her that email - to show her I was working on myself. 

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Cut her off completely. That is the only way to deal with this. You need at least 3 months off -no text, nothing and than let us know how are you feeling.

Let her feel your absence.

 

She mentioned that back in June and July. She said she needs to miss me and feel the loss. Working at the same place never allowed that to happen. Zoom meetings, having to interact, she never got that break from me. Worked in different areas and didn't see each other every day, but when we were in the same office - meeting for example - we were our normal selves. We sat next to each other and joked and laughed. No one new we had problems. co-workers kept asking about wedding and she would say how excited she was even though she had already canceled it. 

But I haven't contacted her since we left the apt. She initiates the contact and I do reply as not to be rude. I just feel that since another one of her complaints was that I made her feel alone, going no contact would make her feel like I didn't care? But I know we need the break, I'm just confused. 

Again, this IS my first rodeo in a relationship I didn't want to lose. The day of my moms funeral she said, "together forever" and I believed that. 

 

 

 

[BreakingBadHabits]

5 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

Ah, good old deflection. Is she a narcissist? Because some of the things you said, her need of attention of men, her lack of empathy toward both of you(you and her lover), even her wanting to seek reference from somebody she hurt, using deflection when she faces criticism, those are all very narcissistic threats. Narcissists usually ask for admiration at any cost. When she didnt get it from you due to circumstances, she turned out to the lover. When she had a fight with him she would go to you so you could pleade with her and beg her to stay because you "love" her. When you confronted her about cheating she deflected and was mad at you for talking with her mom and even left you. She cant face criticism because that would mean she is not all that perfect. So she just deflects the guilt onto you because it cant be her fault that she cheated. See how vile all that circle she wrapped herself into is? That is why I think that she may be that or at least exhibit some of its properties. 

Anyway, you shouldnt blame yourself here. Your only fault is that you didnt see "the writings on the wall"(her texting other men inappropriately, lack of sex for a year etc.) and didnt cut all that off sooner and even wanted to marry somebody like that. Her compliance about that only shows what I wrote before, that she knew that didnt work and probably cheated even then but idea of marriage was somewhat exciting to her so she stayed for that. You are only as useful to her as the dopamine charge, other then that, her lack of empathy toward you shows that she didnt care for you. I am sorry, but that is how it is. Its her fault for cheating. She may deflect it on you, you may even think its your fault because you somehow pushed her there, but ultimately its her fault. If she wasnt happy she was free to broke things off. Instead she accepted marriage proposal, cheated, broke things off, then came back whenever she had an argument with her lover. That is all on her and her cheating ways. Cut her off from your life, you would be far better without her in it, trust me. 

I've been reading up on narcissism, and to be honest she does kind of fit the description. Nothing is her fault, she very rarely takes responsibility for things, she will apologize on rare occasions, but after the apology will flip it back to me. 

When I would bring up stuff to her that bothered me, like (GUY) she would call me controlling and trying to tell her who she could talk to. Just so many signs that when I slow down and think about some of the stuff I see where I was getting fleeced. But again, it's still seems so hard to walk away. 

We both also had a bad habit of bring up and living in the past. She never wanted to discuss issues and when something new happened, either her or I would bring up something from the past. I know now, this isn't good to do.

I have a lot to learn about relationships. I've been non-stop reading and learning, I want to be my best self. Unfortunately I'm older and should have done this sooner.  

[MissCanuck]

This relationship is over, man. 

Your mistake was not wanting to believe the signs that she was cheating when you first saw them. She left the building ages ago. 

[boltnrun]

I'm sure she's telling "GUY" the same things she's telling you. I'm sure he thinks he's the one she really loves. And don't kid yourself, she absolutely would do this.

My cousin's ex wife actually went through with the wedding even though she had another boyfriend for months that continued after the wedding. She didn't want to cancel the wedding because it would have been "embarrassing". Well, he divorced her after a year of marriage because he didn't want a cheap, cheating floozy for a wife. I wonder if she found being divorced after a year "embarrassing".

Let me ask you, if she had turned cold on you and refused you sex would you have gotten a secret girlfriend on the side and lied to her about it for years? Would you believe you had the right to cheat and lie?

She will keep you on the hook for as long as you allow her to. But know this, things will NEVER go back to how they were in the beginning. Too much damage has been done.

[BreakingBadHabits]

1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

Let me ask you, if she had turned cold on you and refused you sex would you have gotten a secret girlfriend on the side and lied to her about it for years? Would you believe you had the right to cheat and lie?

No I wouldn't. Early on in the relationship we had talked about cheating and how it messes people up (she saw how it messed her mom up), so we both agreed that cheating wasn't something we would do, she even said she's loyal by default. I know what everyone's thinking right now..... 

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I'm sure she's telling "GUY" the same things she's telling you. I'm sure he thinks he's the one she really loves. And don't kid yourself, she absolutely would do this.

Can't say for sure, but after (GUY) showed up at the door, she cussed him out and called him a lot of names. She said she's done with him (cut him out completely - I can't confirm this though) for what he did - coming to the house lying. She claims everything he was saying was a lie. I know some of what he said was true, I just don't know how much. 

I guess another question I have is, how do I handle it when she reaches out? What if she reaches out saying she made a mistake and wants to seriously work on it? What do I do if her mom reaches out? Her moms 70 and since she lives right around the corner she sometimes asks me to help with fixing things in her house. I don't want to be rude to people who didn't do anything wrong. 

 

[DancingFool]

3 minutes ago, BreakingBadHabits said:

I guess another question I have is, how do I handle it when she reaches out? What if she reaches out saying she made a mistake and wants to seriously work on it? What do I do if her mom reaches out? Her moms 70 and since she lives right around the corner she sometimes asks me to help with fixing things in her house. I don't want to be rude to people who didn't do anything wrong. 

 

You don't. You block them both from all access. Her mother is not your problem or concern once you break up.

If you genuinely feel like you are at a point in life where you'd like a serious long term relationship, then you do need to walk away from this and actually spend some serious time sorting yourself out. You mentioned that before her, you had some toxic dating patterns. So it's no surprise that you were drawn to someone who is toxic. Like attracts like or in your case, it's what's familiar.

Please get off that hamster wheel and do what it takes to get your head screwed on straight so that you do find a healthy relationship with a healthy woman that actually lasts happily. You do deserve that. I hope you realize that.

[boltnrun]

9 minutes ago, BreakingBadHabits said:

Can't say for sure, but after (GUY) showed up at the door, she cussed him out and called him a lot of names. She said she's done with him (cut him out completely - I can't confirm this though) for what he did - coming to the house lying. She claims everything he was saying was a lie. I know some of what he said was true, I just don't know how much. 

And you believe her?

This is a woman who lied to you for how long? And was staying overnight with him while she was allegedly engaged to you? Why would you believe anything she says? She probably told him she's done with you.

As for what to do if she tries to come crawling back? Remind yourself of all the deception and lies and pain she put you through. Ask yourself if you want someone who's capable of such deception to be your wife. Think about how you would feel having a wife you would have to check up on all the time. Or having a wife who is making a fool out of you behind your back.

As for her mother, I'm sure she has other people in her life she can rely on and who she is close to. If she contacts you, be polite but there's absolutely no need for you to be spending time with her or have regular communication with her. She will be fine, just like she was before you dated her daughter.

And you will be fine too. Not today or next week, but you will.

[MissCanuck]

19 minutes ago, BreakingBadHabits said:

how do I handle it when she reaches out? What if she reaches out saying she made a mistake and wants to seriously work on it?

Remember that she is a liar and manipulator, and you won't ever get a good relationship out of her. She has zero respect for you. This is not going to work out. And then block her. 

20 minutes ago, BreakingBadHabits said:

What do I do if her mom reaches out?

"I'm sorry Ex's Mom, but our relationship is over. Thank you for your kindness over the years. I wish you well." And block her too. 

You deseprately need to work on your self-worth, OP. I know you won't block either of them yet, because you badly want to keep this relationship. But this is not going to your Happily Ever After. It's impossible with a woman like this. All that will happen here is that you will remain stuck in a bad relationship in which your girlfriend plays you for a total fool. 

[SherrySher]

Come on, Breakingbad....how long are you going to keep kidding yourself that she might not be lying or she might be innocent?

She's a cheater. She has lied to you so many times now, you can't tell anymore what's a lie, and what isn't.

You have a long list of people here telling you...she is a liar, she is a cheater, you are being naive in trying to make her out to be anything else.

Block, get this toxic person out of your life once and for all.

[BreakingBadHabits]

1 hour ago, DancingFool said:

You don't. You block them both from all access. Her mother is not your problem or concern once you break up.

Wow. Do people really block the people who had nothing to do with it? Seems kind of cruel. Her mom is like a mom to me. Especially since my mom passed. That's going to be rough.

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If you genuinely feel like you are at a point in life where you'd like a serious long term relationship, then you do need to walk away from this and actually spend some serious time sorting yourself out. You mentioned that before her, you had some toxic dating patterns. So it's no surprise that you were drawn to someone who is toxic. Like attracts like or in your case, it's what's familiar.

That the problem. I've never felt like I wanted a long term relationship until I met her. On the plus side I am seriously working on myself. Like I told her in the email, I want to be the best version of me - even if it is too late. I learned a lot from this lesson. 

I guess I'm also hung up on the fact that we never made the break up official. It's more of "I need space to miss you" and then she kept coming around. It doesn't feel like a break up. 

 

[SherrySher]

4 minutes ago, BreakingBadHabits said:

Wow. Do people really block the people who had nothing to do with it? Seems kind of cruel. Her mom is like a mom to me. Especially since my mom passed. That's going to be rough.

That the problem. I've never felt like I wanted a long term relationship until I met her. On the plus side I am seriously working on myself. Like I told her in the email, I want to be the best version of me - even if it is too late. I learned a lot from this lesson. 

I guess I'm also hung up on the fact that we never made the break up official. It's more of "I need space to miss you" and then she kept coming around. It doesn't feel like a break up. 

 

Yes, people block. That's her mother. It would be unhealthy to continue the relationship with her mother when you are no longer a couple.

If you had been married, or had a child together, that's a different story. But she was someone you dated and you were treated badly.

You need to stop all connections if you truly want to get past all of this and move on.

She keeps coming back for only one reason, when one of her other boy toys fights with her, or she gets tired of them, then she comes back to you. 

But even if she comes back to you, she won't stay. She's not the type of woman to stay or to be faithful.

You will only be temporary until she misses her other fling and she will be messing around with him once again.

That cycle will never stop. She wants more than one man.

[BreakingBadHabits]

7 minutes ago, SherrySher said:

Come on, Breakingbad....how long are you going to keep kidding yourself that she might not be lying or she might be innocent?

She's a cheater. She has lied to you so many times now, you can't tell anymore what's a lie, and what isn't.

You have a long list of people here telling you...she is a liar, she is a cheater, you are being naive in trying to make her out to be anything else.

Block, get this toxic person out of your life once and for all.

I'm trying. I really am. I haven't contacted her. The only thing I did was send that email. But after that, nothing. She has lied a lot. I'm working on detaching. 

I hear what everyone's saying, I know everyone's right. I'm slowing convincing myself of that. I just don't want to believe she would do that to me after all I've done for her. When I met her she had nothing, she was in a bad place (I didn't know this at the time) and after 2 years together she gave me a plaque on my bday where she had named a star after us - Cetus. She said I saved her from her past. 

 Stuff like that is what makes it hard to let go - the stuff she did had a special meaning.

[SherrySher]

3 minutes ago, BreakingBadHabits said:

Stuff like that is what makes it hard to let go - the stuff she did had a special meaning.

But this is what we are trying to tell you, it wasn't authentic.

Manipulators know how to use their charm, how to get you addicted.

But they won't ever be faithful, they won't ever respect you, and they won't ever be honest.

The things she did for you, she is doing for another man too, and she is telling him the same sweet nothings.

You have to realize that, so you won't keep being stuck in a toxic cycle with someone who will never love you.

[boltnrun]

Yeah, she did special stuff with "GUY" too. He wouldn't have kept messaging her telling her how much he loved her if she wasn't.

The person you're in love with doesn't exist. Maybe she never did, or maybe she just changed into a person who only cares about getting what she wants. But that woman she was years ago? She's gone.

Heartbreak sucks. We have all been through it. But we came out the other side, a little wiser, a little more cautious, but we all are able to love again. You will too.

[MissCanuck]

26 minutes ago, BreakingBadHabits said:

Stuff like that is what makes it hard to let go - the stuff she did had a special meaning.

Most partners do, at some point. Even the worst abusers have their charming moments, the times that keep their abused partners coming back. I am not suggesting this woman abused you, but she did often treat you (and continues to treat you) like crap. 

Those special moments are not enough when the rest of the relationship has erupted into choas, dysfunction, disrepsect and pain. 

You are going to have to start facing the reality of who she is, and not who you so badly wanted to her to be. 

[Kwothe28]

34 minutes ago, BreakingBadHabits said:

Wow. Do people really block the people who had nothing to do with it? Seems kind of cruel.

Yes. Buddy of mine broke up with his fiance. He was devastated because her brother and brothers wife deleted him as friends on Facebook. Think he was more devastated about the brother because they hang out and drink together, then about the fiance lol. Anyway, yes, messy break ups(big relationships, marriages) also pull stuff like that. You cant expect to be friends with her family or her to be friends with yours.

Also, if you are wondering how honest she was about stuff just read this

5 hours ago, BreakingBadHabits said:

We sat next to each other and joked and laughed. No one new we had problems. co-workers kept asking about wedding and she would say how excited she was even though she had already canceled it. 

if she is willing to go to that lenghts just to keep up appearance how everything is great in front of colleagues, you really cant trust anything that person says or does. 

[BreakingBadHabits]

1 hour ago, SherrySher said:

The things she did for you, she is doing for another man too, and she is telling him the same sweet nothings.

So, I can say that I went through her phone (actually her apple watch) and read her text messages (not proud but I had to know after the late nights out). To this day she doesn't know that I saw the messages. I've never checked her stuff except for that one time just for confirmation. She didn't seem to be reciprocating the feelings. He would send about 5 texts saying stuff like, "I love you so much, I'm going to make you mine" but she didn't reply to them with mushy stuff. He sent a text saying "good morning baby, I love you" and she replied with "good morning". 

Doesn't change anything though, what's happened has happened. I'm just trying to make sense of it all. I know I should be keeping busy and stuff, but I feel like I need to know why this happened.

[BreakingBadHabits]

20 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Also, if you are wondering how honest she was about stuff just read this

if she is willing to go to that lenghts just to keep up appearance how everything is great in front of colleagues, you really cant trust anything that person says or does. 

In fairness I was doing the same when people asked. I think we both wanted to keep the "gossip" out of the office. When we got engaged the whole company made a big deal about it. We were known as the "power couple" at work. We were both in leadership roles and were well respected by everyone, all the way up to Divisional VP. 

[MissCanuck]

3 minutes ago, BreakingBadHabits said:

She didn't seem to be reciprocating the feelings.

She likely saved that for when she saw him in person, so as not to totally blow her own cover should you ever happen to see those messages. 

Just because she didn't write it in messages doesn't mean she didn't say those things to him. You're grasping at straws here. 

[BreakingBadHabits]

51 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

Most partners do, at some point. Even the worst abusers have their charming moments, the times that keep their abused partners coming back. I am not suggesting this woman abused you, but she did often treat you (and continues to treat you) like crap. 

Those special moments are not enough when the rest of the relationship has erupted into choas, dysfunction, disrepsect and pain. 

You are going to have to start facing the reality of who she is, and not who you so badly wanted to her to be. 

I understand. I guess I'm also "scared" since I'm 40 and feel like I'll never find this again. We talked about kids, now, I want kids. I also fear having to start over. I can't just go out and meet someone, then marry them 6 months to a year later. I'm not programmed like that. 

It took me 2 years with her before I even considered it. I realize now I have missed out on a lot of things in life. Kids, wife, and I was SO close. this time.

[boltnrun]

I'm sure she knew you were going through her phone.  That's why she was careful with her messages.

You don't really think "GUY" just showed up out of nowhere for no reason, do you?

Yes, you are grasping at straws because you want so badly for her to NOT be a lying cheater. But sadly, she is. She proved that more than once.

I'm sorry, I know it hurts. But trying to pretend she's not a liar and she's not deceitful will hurt you more in the long run. 

You can still have children. It doesn't have to be within the next 6 months. My brother became a father in his 40s and he has 3 terrific kids. 

[BreakingBadHabits]

3 hours ago, boltnrun said:

I'm sure she knew you were going through her phone.  That's why she was careful with her messages. 

Honestly, to this day she doesn't know I could see her messages on her apple watch. I only had the pw for it because I set it up for her. She's not technical. When I would ask her questions that I already knew the answers to, she couldn't figure out why I was asking them. She always had her phone with her, but she left her watch on the charger in the bathroom. 

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You don't really think "GUY" just showed up out of nowhere for no reason, do you?

He actually did. It was by chance they bumped into each other at Home Depot. Her bestfriend who I have known for 7 years confirmed they ran into each other and exchanged numbers. She was with her at the time and saw.

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Yes, you are grasping at straws because you want so badly for her to NOT be a lying cheater. But sadly, she is. She proved that more than once.

I'm sorry, I know it hurts. But trying to pretend she's not a liar and she's not deceitful will hurt you more in the long run. 

 

I realize this now. The more I talk about it on here the more I see what's been going on. It's actually making me feel better to have this outlet to discuss it. 

I played high school football and I also was in Army ROTC, I live my live according to the lessons I learned on the field. Teamwork. I looked as us as a TEAM. I lost my way and needed help, I needed my other half to get me back on track. She tried, even though she gave up, looking back I see where she tried. She could have tried harder though or maybe she tried her best. I was stubborn and hardheaded.  

I would have NEVER did the things to her that she did to me. If she was going through a rough time, I wouldn't give up. She was in "my circle". My circle is small and I would do anything for the people I chose to let in my circle, I would have never give up on her or leave her behind. I guess that's what hurts me the most. That's where we're different.  

[SherrySher]

With the type of manipulator this woman is, she's going to be very careful.

She doesn't want there to be proof of her bad behavior. It doesn't matter if she thought you may look through her phone, or not, she's smart enough to make sure there's no evidence.

That way, it will make it easier to make it all your fault and look innocent on her part.

But the biggest thing you should be taking notice of here, is how these men spoke to her.."Good morning, baby...etc", and she not only accepted it, (while having a boyfriend already), but she allowed it, she didn't say anything about not speaking that way to her, and she at times, encouraged it.

You don't need black and white typed words, all you need to do is watch her behavior.

That will tell you everything you need to know