Potential LDR: Propose or Not Propose

[CityHunter]

My GF of 1.5 yrs is applying for a unversity in the west coast (I'm in the east coast), it's 50/50 that she'll get in. Personally I don't think the program (a Master degree) is for her, it's too IT and technical, and she's not very savvy with a computer (but she's learning).

 

She have never been away to school, nor stay away from home (even sleep over at a girl's house) ! I wonder how she'll cope with being alone and on her own??

 

I have a full time job so I can't just pickup and go, and the plane ticket is about $200 round trip.

 

We have talked about marriage, and I'm saving up for our house, planning to buy within a month..... now she's seriously hinting "if she gets a better offer here (either from me or from another local university), then she would stay". In fact, it's her parents who try to push her to goto Grad school to get a master degree, but she have no idea what jobs she can get with that degree....

 

Do I propose

1a) before she goes away but after she got accepted into the university (risky since it'll be LDR)

1b) before she goes away, (or even before she gets accepted) and influenced her to stay

2) after she goes away for 1 term, then I visit her on our 2 yr anniversary and propose

 

Option 1 will look like she forced my hand and forcing me to propose against my will

Option 2 will look like I'm not committing.....

 

Please give me any advise....... I honestly want her to stay and get married, but I don't her to blame me for missed oppotunity.

[Derek]

You got enough for a house downpayment, yet 200$ / trip is too much?

 

=)

 

Why not get engaged now and say, "dear, as we become a team together, I want you to pursue your dreams as well, so you do what you have to do regarding your education."

 

Her parents will give you points for being so mature, and if she decides to stay, then it's not your fault! hehe.

 

=)

 

Is an LDR a good test for being engaged? I dunno.

 

Maybe there is more to the story though =)

 

 

 

 

[Mermaid]

Hmmm... rough one. If you think that she's truly hinting that she'd love a proposal now, I'd do it. Either way, the best advice is to follow your heart--as trite as that sounds. You can't know for sure that any of those options is the best one so, if you love her, ask her to marry you when you feel the time is right without overthinking it. Hell, there IS such a thing as being engaged long-distance. She may choose to accept the proposal and continue on to school, with plans for you guys to marry once her degree is done. Nothing wrong with that!

 

As far as her never having been away from home, even for a night... well, I don't know how old she is, but if she's working on her Master's than she's at least in her 20s. It would be much healthier for her and for your longterm relationship if she gained some life experience. It's a giant red-flag to me that she's never even stayed overnight at a friend's house in the course of her life. Has she ever been alone in her home when her parents were on vacation? Does she ever stay over with you at your place?

 

To me, this is a much bigger issue to tackle than whether or not to propose. Because unless she grows up, she won't be able to hack life, relationships or anything else that requires her to be independent and self-sufficient.

[Hope75]

When would you have proposed if the school issue was not at hand?

 

I don't think you should rush things. Whatever you had planned before, you might be best to stick to it.

 

If you have marriage in mind with her, and she feels that way too, than her going away to school is not going to change that. If this degree is something that she wants, she should pursue it.

 

Just my opinion.

[DN]

Why not get engaged now and say, "dear, as we become a team together, I want you to pursue your dreams as well, so you do what you have to do regarding your education."

 

Her parents will give you points for being so mature, and if she decides to stay, then it's not your fault! hehe.

 

I think Derek has a good point here. This doesn't just have to be your decision. Talk to her about it - tell her you love her and want to marry her but are prepared to wait while she completes her education, or even get married while she is in the process. Let her make the choice and then decide how to make that choice work.

[Derek]

Doesn't this situation sound like the proverbial:

 

"let the bird go and if it doesn't come back to you, it was never yours to begin with"

 

He's concerned that her being away will change her and change her opinion of him. That's likely true, but it might be for the better, not neccessarily for the worst.

 

She's thinking, "do I choose security now and regrets later on or do I choose to risk now and know what I really want later."

 

Parents are prolly thinking, "sweetie, don't worry about boys yet, go get your degree(s) first so you will be secure in life."

 

 

But I am reading much to much into it without any details.

=)

 

 

[heloladies21]

It's good to care about her, but you have to look after what you want 1st. If you want her to stay then you need to let her know asap. If you want to get married you should ask her. You won't be making her decision for her, but you will be giving her your opinion and letting her know what you want (which i'm sure she values) so she can make a fully informed decision.

 

A year and a half is a long time to spend. You don't want to spend another 1.5 in a LDR just to find she was never serious about you.

 

Call her out and get the answers to your questions.

[RayKay]

Propose to her when you feel ready and the time is right for you, regardless of all of this going on. The next four years are going to be a crazy time for me, but I would hope that would not change my boyfriends decisions on when to ask me or not ask me, though in my case there will be some other external complications (ie in terms of student loans so I can go back to school) by getting married. Still, I don't think those should change OUR relationship plans

 

Be careful about pressuring her to do anything either way - ultimately it should be her decision, and you are there to lend support in that. And don't discourage her either way either.

 

And really her going away is a positive thing for her - it is concerning she has NEVER been on her own or away from her family. Trust me if you do get married, you will be better off in the long run with someone who has learned to make it on their own and become a more independent, well rounded person, and doing her Masters may give her a boost of confidence in herself as well.

[chai714]

The only reason you should propose, is because you love her and want to spend the rest of your life with her. It should not be a way to try to influence whether or not she will stay. This would be a "loaded proposal," and it should not happen that way. I can see why you want to consider the timing of your proposal, but if you have any doubts as to your motives for proposing, then don't do it yet.

[CityHunter]

Thanks for all the reply.

 

Fact: We are serious with each other

 

(I just had a long talk with her)

If I don't propose, I appears to not willing to commit AND I'm calculating (because I took the safest route)

 

If I propose, I'm somewhat influencing her.

 

I have no idea how she'll react when she's alone in a new city, as she had never had away from home (she had 2 trips w/o family when she's like 14 & 16, 1 was a school trip, the another was a family trip with her uncles & grandparents). Even though she's 26, she was not allowed to spend a night at my place.

 

I would like her to learn some life exp, (hopefully within my driving distance). With her on the other side of the continent, it's a lot harder to comfort her during her down period. The worst is my job doesn't allow me to pick up and go, and the mortgage will severely limit how much I can travel to her. My mortage calculation saids I'll spent 1/2 of my pay on paying the mortgage, then the other 1/2 on the monthly expenses (food, gas, hydro and power, car insurance, tax......)

I think I can visit her once a term. If she lives in a dorm, it'll be hard to stay there for a whole week! (it cost $100/night even at a crappy hotel)

 

I had some ideas on how to propose, just not sure when, but I think waiting until the school release the enrollment result will be better.

I honestly is not sure the school/program she choose is the best course, she think getting the grad degree will solve everything and guarantee a good job. I can only tell her so many times before sounding like I'm putting her down.

 

Hope75>>When would you have proposed if the school issue was not at hand?

Yes.

[heloladies21]

Also man, you might want to notice this as a red flag that things might not be quite right in the relationship. If she's just willing to jump accross the country to go to school for a reason that's just not making perfect sense to you, she might not be as interested in this as you are. Are there other schools in the area which could offer her exactly what she would get out there? How hard has she tried to get into these schools? Is it even a priority for her to stay with you? It's true sometimes people have to do things for their career and lives which could put physical distance between couples and they make it work. My friend was called out of country cause he was in the military. He was out for a year and a half. Him and his girl didn't even waver from each other, but i'm getting something different from your situation.

 

Her parents seem to have a strong influence in her life and that's fine. But she's 26 and is ultimately going to do what she wants to do. If she decides to leave you to go cross country, it's because she wanted to do it. Just be careful and look for other signs that she might not be interested in spending the rest of her life with you.

 

And as always, believe what a person does over what they say.

[RayKay]

Good points heloladies.

 

CityHunter - I am 25 and cannot imagine doing things because my parents told me too, or allowing them to control my life. I love my parents - they are supportive and always there for advice when required, but they also realize I am an independent adult and able to make my own decisions - even the ones that are mistakes.

 

There are one of two concerns here - either she is not as into things as you are but is afraid to say so directly OR...she still allows her parents to control her choices. Both can be quite detrimental to a relationship though. At 26 the fact she is still living at home and told by her parents what to do, and where she can or can't spend the night DOES concern me a bit - if you choose to spend your life with someone, there is more to making it work then love alone. The fact she still does not make her own decisions nor is very independent or is easily influenced are all red flags in my opinion.

[Mermaid]

Let me get this straight: your girlfriend is 26 and she's "not allowed" to stay overnight at her own boyfriend's house?!

 

Do you not see anything wrong with this?? This is a terribly unhealthy situation and your girlfriend needs to do some major growing up before she can commit to you as a wife or even think of becoming a mother one day. Not only that, you need a better understanding of the dynamic happening in her household. I'm not sure what's worse--that her parents are controlling her the way they are, or that she's letting them do it!

 

There's more going on with this woman (yes, she's a WOMAN) than you know -- or than you'd care to admit. She needs help.

[CityHunter]

Mermaid>>Let me get this straight: your girlfriend is 26 and she's "not allowed" to stay overnight at her own boyfriend's house?!

 

I know this when we got together (we know each other for 2+ year before we got together), her family (including uncles and aunts) are extremely traditional and (I hate to say this) backwards. They created a bubble universe and force all the females kids to live under their traditional rules.

Both are us are immigrants, but I came from a more liberal country.

We're the both Chinese.

 

I came to understand her parents and relatives fear they'll lose face (e.g girl getting pregnant and dishonour them) or losing control of the daughter. They have threatened to cut her off if she moves out. Their bluff worked.

 

Normally I am not a confrontational person, but her parents are really really annoying me. We can't go on trips, vacations (I went to Florida for training recently, she could have stayed with me, free hotel stay, and goto Disney Land - which she would love to go)

 

heloladies21 >> if she's just willing to jump accross the country to go to school for a reason that's just not making perfect sense to you, she might not be as interested in this as you are.

 

When we first got together, I know she was going away to school, I have tried to be supportive and not try to influence her in any way, well she told me last night she thought I didn't care..... and I tried my best not to come accross as putting her down (which the EX did and lose major points, she told me that)

 

I think she put too much faith in formal education, (it's good and useful to a certain point), she thinks education will teach her new skills and give her directions to her career. My experience is edu doesn't give you skillset that you can really use in work (unless your're in a very specialized program/profession), it just teach you how to think.

 

I even helped her with her resume recently, I doubt anything she did the last 2-3 yrs came from her education.......

 

Master degree is a goal she set a long time ago, and the parents came to expect it, now turned to demanding it from her.

She told me her dad told her (when we're getting serious at the beginning), "You own me a Master degree before anything (aka marriage)" , well I don't see him paying for her education! (I'm the one who'll eventually footing the bill )

 

Her mom told her "You can get married first then goto Grad school", they got the best end of the deal..... I will get married and go celibacy for 1 year, and hopefully get some when she returns home on vacation! They won't have to risk the daughter getting pregnant before marriage and won't have to pay for anything.

Not to mention her mom had pressured her to pressure me to propose! This is suppose to happen in an old movie, not now in North America!@#

 

I'm waiting to see her uncles' daughter grow up and flip the finger to the elders when they try to impose the same rules on them.......

Somehow I think it might have been easier if I'm White so I wouldn't be expected to know & accept & follow all the old/ancient Chinese rules/customs.

For the record, I told my parents NO when they try to control me, and they accepted they can't control me like a little kid anymore, and they backed down (I was honestly surprised).

[RayKay]

I had a friend who dated a Korean girl, and her parents were much the same as your girlfriends. She was in her mid-20s and living at home. He was white though, so it took her parents a little longer to accept. But she had to be home by 10 everynight, could never stay out and so on. He eventually proposed to her, and they got married, but the parents still try to remain overly involved in her life. She accepts it as normal - for him it is much harder as he sometimes feels like he is living with a "little girl" rather than a woman whom is his wife, and future mother of his children.

 

I do understand certain families have traditions and rules of their household. My concern though is at 26, she still does not really have a mind of her own. I know she likely does not want to upset her family....but I think these "rules" are less tradition then an attempt to force control and their own beliefs and decisions on her - they are deciding how she should live her life. That won't change even if you do get married I guarantee - they will also be there to tell you how the children should be raised, who should take care of the children and how, etc.

 

I don't know, its tough and I don't have much particular advice as if she is willing to continue under that there is little you can do. I will say this though - don't allow her parents pressure directly or through her to force a marriage/proposal before you are ready. Be prepared that marriage is about more than love alone, and that you two both need to be prepared for all the realities of it. My guess is that she is not really given the lack of independence in her life so far.

 

As for school - well, it may or may not directly help her. But it will not harm her. No one has ever regretted an education, even if it did not lead directly to where they thought it was. I am going back to school in a year or so at great financial cost to me, and drastic changes to my plans and current life, but its worth it to me and something I value. Support and encourage her rather than question her and try to change her mind.

[CityHunter]

RayKay I think I'm in the same boat as your friend.

For my father side of the family, everyone is very distant with each other.

For my mom's side, they're significantly closer, very much like her family.

 

Her entire family would gang up on the individual who steps out of line, and force her into submission.

 

As for School, her ungrad debt just got down to $25,000 ! She had gotten loan for school, paid for tuition and give to rest to the family when the dad's between jobs. (From my cultural understanding) money give/loan to parents are rarely returned. And yet she's ready to take on another $25,000 for Grad School. Grad school doesn't teach you skill, it's just a lot of research. I had my share of grad classes in my undergrad years, it's a lot of written BS.

 

When she first pressured me into proposing, I joked (unknowingly) if her mom is whipering in her ear, she paued and said her mom put her up for it..... I was stunned.

 

My mom went through the how the kid was raised with my grandma, unfortunately my grandma was my babysitter so my mom can't fight back on certain issues, so now my mom indicated she'll be very hands off with my kids (when they come).

 

On the other hand, my GF had been saying many many times that she would LOVE to get me to move in to her family home after marriage, I had been adamant that's NOT an option. 1) I would lose all respect from everyone. 2) I don't want to get stuck with her parents when they're old and demand her undivided attention 3) I saw close proximity with married couples with parents create lots of friction

She as the oldest daughter is expected to sacriface a lot more, but I had to draw the line now.

I think her (this) request origins from being scared to leave home, because the parents had been holding her back since she was a little girl, e.g. refusing to let her go on trips, using guilt trip on her to get their way and get her to back down.......

I can't believe when my GF said her mom considered it a major concession of her part to let us go on day trips together, it's not even on my negotiation list......

 

I'm willing to play to obedient and tradional son in law, but there's only so much that I can take...... but I did demonstrate to her parents I can choose not to follow their rules and show my independent/rebellious side.

We did went camping overnight last summer, her mom approved it out of spite and couldn't back down, but I was banned from setting foot in her house for 1/2 a year, effective immediately after we asked, we were just testing the water at that time.....since I was banned, we went out every Friday / weekend (and they can't keep an eye on us), they tasted their own medicine ....

We pushed once more later and stayed out overnight after a drinking party, they finally flipped. Well I apologized, but do I mean any word of it?? It's just customary to apologize...... I doubt her parents would have asked a white guy to do the same thing......

 

But we eventually found a mutual get off/face saver for both parties and we pretending nothing happened, except my GF sacrifaced her freedom....the condition is she can't go on ANY overnight trips with me ever (well, before marriage).

 

Originally I thought since I grow up oversea, I would be more traditional and my GF grow up here, she would be more white-washed / westernized, but it's the exact opposite.

[Mermaid]

That her parents are Chinese immigrants puts a whole new spin on things. Although it's still not acceptable here to behave the way she and her parents are, it's much more understandable now that I know the other details.

 

And wow... what an interesting point you brought up about it possibly being easier if you were white, and thereforeeee weren't expected to adhere to the same traditions. Maybe you apply those same ideas to your situation, regardless of your race. The fact is, white or Chinese, you're well-aware of the way things SHOULD be working -- and you have every right to stand up for yourself and for her.

 

Personally, from everything you've said (her mom is pressuring you to propose?!), it sounds like her parents are just far too involved in your relationship. I'd sit down with your girlfriend and tell her everything that you're telling us -- and remind her that wanting her to become independent from her family isn't a bad thing, but that's it's the only way that your relationship will work in the longterm. (And you can point out that becoming independent doesn't mean she won't be part of her family anymore -- it just means that she will make decisions on her own, or with you, and become her own person.) If she loves you, she'll start making those changes... maybe not overnight, but over time.

[CityHunter]

I'm a Chinese immigrant (I came over when I was 16), but she came over when she's 4. I expected (unfortunately incorrectly) her to be more liberal than me, (since they are here a lot longer than I was), but it's the exact opposite. Her parents still lives with their old value in their bubble universe.

 

The Chinese way is you don't uncessarily need to say things out loud to get something done. Her parents would not tell me directly to propose to her, they would PRESSURE her into telling/pressuring me into doing it.

 

I hate to be pushed. They have pushed so many times before and I'm not willing to do everything they want us to do forever. They have been pushing and pushing, and I have been giving gound since day 1. My GF is caught in the crossfire as the messenger.

And I don't think I'm asking for much, just some long weekend trips to go somewhere, go camping... which the parents have never done for her.

[unhappyinlove1]

This is a tough one - my biggest question is why are you buying a house for the 2 of you when she's leaving?

 

I would hold off on the house and wait until the two of you are settled somewhere. Let her go get her Master's - did she only apply to that one program? She didn't apply anywhere closer to you?

 

If she goes and you're serious about working this out - you could spend the next 6 mo's or year trying to get a job closer to her or she could defer a year and try to get into a program closer to you or into a program in a city where you could get a job sometime in the next year.

 

Talk to her about these things and try to come to a compromise. That's what marriage would be - compromise, so if you really are ready to marry her you can start the marriage off right!

[anchor31]

I beg you, don't propose to her because you want her to stay. For the sake of your relationship, just don't. If you love her, and I'm sure you do, let her go.

 

I did what your girlfriend is doing. I left 600 km away from my boyfriend and family last January for school. My boyfriend was and still is wonderful and he let me go. It has not hurt our relationship at all, I could even say that it has helped it it many ways because we both had things to live and things to learn on our own. I came back for the summer and this summer has been the best summer of my life.

 

It turns out I am very unhappy with the choice I made. I am very disappointed in the school and the program I study in. During the school term and with the summer job I had, I discovered something that is linked to my field of study and interests me even more. I looked for programs in that field of study and found one that seems absolutely fascinating... and it's back home!! So I am coming back next summer to stay. We started talking about moving together and getting married.

 

The reason I'm telling you all this is that you have to let her go, and who knows? She might come back sooner than you think. It'll be hard on both of you, but it could lead to great things. When she comes back (or the year before if you feel like it), then propose. It'll be worth the wait, I promise.

[CityHunter]

I beg you, don't propose to her because you want her to stay. For the sake of your relationship, just don't. If you love her, and I'm sure you do, let her go.

 

I didn't propose to her. It's best not to influence her decision, but she got in the program she's interested in (but it's a bit tough for her).

 

Although it's far away from me/her home, I'm visiting her now (for 2 weeks) and her parents have to put up a smiling face! (Remember her parents didn't allow her to stay out at night), and I'm sleeping in her dorm room everynight for 2 weeks!

 

This 2 weeks is perfect since they got to learn each other's little quarks / living habbits!

[anchor31]

It's a relief to learn that you care about what she wants and decided to not influence her decision. I'm glad to know things are turning out well for the two of you. Nothing stops you from proposing to her for Christmas/her birthday/your anniversary/sometimes this year! I sure wish my boyfriend would...

 

My parents are very conservative too and used to not let my boyfriend sleep in my room when he came over even if I was of age already. But they had no say in me sleeping in my boyfriend's room or him sleeping in my residence apartment room, and I suppose the same goes with your girlfriend's parents.

 

Good luck!

[ratherbesailing]

Cityhunter, tough situation, you obviously want to be with this woman and it sounds like she's torn with her parents pushing her. Don't propose when under all this pressure, you'll regret it later.

 

If you want her then take this cross country move away from her parents as an opportunity and move out near her school and keep her there away from her parents after she graduates. You two will love the freedom and can really get to know each other.

 

Good luck.

[Luciana]

Study first, complete your degrees, THEN get married.

You are way too young!

You need to have more life security. And do not spend thousands in a diamond ring just because the De Beers mafia told you to.