My girlfriend is not sure about our future together

[drdre]

2 hours ago, bluecastle said:

Existential answer coming...

Thanks! All that sounds great! I just cannot say much more at the moment because I am a little bit overwhelmed with so much answers in the topic and all of them very detailed, which I am grateful for, but I will need some time to process the information or I will go crazy  

[drdre]

2 hours ago, Hollyj said:

Why do you live with your parents?

 Why did you make her surgery about you?

I cannot fathom why you have not changed your driving style.   Seems like you are trying to keep control and are acting out.

 

I think you should be splitting that bill.

Thanks for the answer! If I understand you correctly, I have to bear the bigger part of the responsibility for the situation, right?

[drdre]

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Google "Folie à deux". This is when someone wants you to share and become part of whatever their mental health issues are.

The breast surgery. She sign an informed consent  (google it)form in order for them to do it. It is 100% her decision. 

Yes, technically it was her decision but I turned out to be the person who had pressured her to do the operation so emotionally she felt I was the reason for her misfortune. So I was f'ed up nevertheless.

[drdre]

2 hours ago, Rose Mosse said:

I would not continue with the relationship for two major reasons: 1) differences while driving or staying calm (if this is a major issue) and 2) the third party complications with a counsellor. Both of you aren't on the same page about how you want to incorporate the advice of a third party into your relationship. 

I have a personal opinion about road rage in general especially with passengers as I was often on the receiving end or witness to a lot of it, sitting in the passenger side of a vehicle. I think it's worth revisiting if those reactions on the road or in shared activities together are not just habitual for you but also something simmering under the surface: a person may drive with supreme control and confidence (with quick reflexes) yet he or she isn't able to check his/her emotions when someone else doesn't do the same on the road. There's a total disconnect there between the application of driving and expectations on the road or being compassionate or driving defensively (key trick for staying out of accidents). 

I don't know if anyone's ever done up studies on the psychology of road rage or reactions while driving but after years being in the passenger seat of someone who has road rage, it's a very unnerving and disturbing situation seeing another person lose it behind the wheel. There's way too much capacity for loss of control and damage in a split second. Anyway, that's my small take on not being able to stay calm on the road or when I sense someone doesn't drive with care. Losing it on the road too often becomes an outlet for a lot of anger issues and resentments subconsciously built up in a person over time.

Thanks! I can't say that I have anger issues but my driving obviously is concerning for her and I accept it. I think this is the only area in my life that may be taken as an "anger issue", I am mostly a calm person usually.

2 hours ago, Rose Mosse said:

You are unhappy with your relationship but I'm getting the feeling that you're upset at the idea of being on your own. This woman isn't checking off your boxes and she's got one foot out the door, appears to dislike you and is afraid or nervous when she's around you. These are all emotions I'm pinpointing in your situation because emotions change and fuel thoughts and thought processes especially when people think about breaking up with their partner or ending a relationship. We think about how that person makes us feel, do they bring out the best or the worst of us, what overall effect that person has in our lives. You both appear to have an overall negative effect on each other. 

I am still trying to understand if we have mostly negative effect on each other. We've had many great moments and I think overall the experience is good but somehow these little things spoil everything. I am more or less upset at the idea of breaking up, inevitably.

2 hours ago, Rose Mosse said:

I think you should think carefully about the things she's told you about yourself and the next steps are simple: can you change to be what she wants or work out your differences in the relationship/are you both willing to see each others' point of view? 

I am willing to be more considerate while driving, for example, but TV preferences are a BS to me, I think it is stupid. I want to believe we are both willing to see each others' point of view and I want to discuss it with her.

2 hours ago, Rose Mosse said:

When someone tells you they are unsure of you, I think you owe it to yourself whether you deserve to live in limbo or keep having to act as a doormat or supplicant to the other partner's demands. If you can't sense an equal effort or investment in the relationship this is already over. You may be in denial and she too. 

She told me she was feeling some weight upon her because of my flaws, she was trying to discover if it is something she can live with. I guess it is about emotions, she just feels bad and it is not a logic. We spoke on the phone today and I am not in limbo for sure, but the situation is complicated and there's no doubt about that. I don't want to be a doormat but I don't want to make rash decisions, too. I guess couple of days or weeks won't hurt me?

2 hours ago, Rose Mosse said:

 

 

 

[Hollyj]

5 hours ago, drdre said:

Thanks for the answer! If I understand you correctly, I have to bear the bigger part of the responsibility for the situation, right?

You didn't answer my questions?

 

I think there are issues on both sides.

[Wiseman2]

From your description, it seems like you would have to rearrange yourself constantly as well as serve as a whipping post when she wants to do her toxic blame and guilt thing.

Ironically she's in therapy, her life seems to revolve around therapy and yet she's this toxic.😕.

There's a sense of excess self absorbed behaviors and unfortunately she's the sun in her own universe around which everyone must orbit.

[greendots]

Quick question: Who do you see yourself forever married to?

- Someone who wants you to be a certain way and, therefore, has specific expectations of you - like telling you what you should / shouldn't watch, how you should / shouldn't drive, etc.

- Someone who accepts you for who you are right now, despite not always agreeing with your preferences.

 

Last question:

- In what way are you more conservative and she's very liberal? Could you give us some examples.

[drdre]

8 hours ago, Hollyj said:

You didn't answer my questions?

 

I think there are issues on both sides.

I live with my parents because I don't feel the need to live alone, I want to live with my future wife when time comes.

I didn't make her surgery about me, I was thinking that I am helping her that way and I literally told her that she didn't think reasonably at that time. 

I am trying to change my driving habits and I have a progress which she acknowledges.

What control am I trying to keep and what does "act out" mean?

Thanks!

[drdre]

4 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

From your description, it seems like you would have to rearrange yourself constantly as well as serve as a whipping post when she wants to do her toxic blame and guilt thing.

Ironically she's in therapy, her life seems to revolve around therapy and yet she's this toxic.😕.

There's a sense of excess self absorbed behaviors and unfortunately she's the sun in her own universe around which everyone must orbit.

Do you really think she is that bad? I've always thought of myself as a little bit egotistical person but I think that with time I've changed and try to be more considerate about others. I've never seen her in my eyes as a sun in her own universe, this is confusing me.

[drdre]

4 hours ago, greendots said:

Quick question: Who do you see yourself forever married to?

Honestly, I don't know now. I really want a woman that doesn't want to mold me by her preferences and recently I am a bit sceptical if a person can be forever married to someone. Given that there are so many divorces out there and people battling constantly... 

4 hours ago, greendots said:

- Someone who wants you to be a certain way and, therefore, has specific expectations of you - like telling you what you should / shouldn't watch, how you should / shouldn't drive, etc.

While speaking on the phone yesterday, I told her that I wished to be able to watch whatever I wanted to which she agreed at least a little bit but still insisted that watching negative things (murder investigations; sitcoms that make you "stupid"; even The Incredible Dr. Pol, because there are diseases and surgeries in it..) makes you miserable and affects you on the subconscious level, makes you have nightmares, etc. So one shouldn't "allow" negative things in his life (or outright avoid them).

4 hours ago, greendots said:

- Someone who accepts you for who you are right now, despite not always agreeing with your preferences.

I really want such a person. Apart from several of my "negative" points, she accepts the most of me.

4 hours ago, greendots said:

 

Last question:

- In what way are you more conservative and she's very liberal? Could you give us some examples.

In the way that she thinks that all people are equal and have equal rights for a given thing, while I don't like some groups of people, for example.

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, drdre said:

. I've never seen her in my eyes as a sun in her own universe, this is confusing me.

From your description.

You have to drive how she wants, your have to read self help books she wants, you have to be responsible for her  undesirable surgical outcome.,etc.,etc ,etc.

So which is it? Complain and then defend against your own complaints?

[drdre]

51 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

From your description.

You have to drive how she wants, your have to read self help books she wants, you have to be responsible for her  undesirable surgical outcome.,etc.,etc ,etc.

So which is it? Complain and then defend against your own complaints?

I cannot deny that I am complaining here  but I didn't want to defend against my own complaints. I am just confused and I want to understand as many points of view as possible. Don't get me wrong. I have a history in the past being inconsiderate to some degree about others and more or less egotistical. So while I am not happy about all these things you described above (driving, reading, etc.) I am also trying to understand if she has some right to be such a person and if I am not missing something that is my responsibility. For example, I really understand her fear of some driving situations and it is not something that she can correct, it is an emotional or physical fear, it is involuntary and I try to be a better driver.

[Jibralta]

On 12/12/2020 at 8:59 AM, drdre said:

According to me it's not the end of the world but I don't know how women accept such a "misfortune", I guess they are more concerned for their appearance than men are. 

If this was my boyfriend's response to my disfigured breast, I wouldn't be too sure about our relationship, either. "Sorry you're a woman, babe. If you were a man, you wouldn't care about silly things like appearances."

Good lord. 

 

 

[boltnrun]

I'm also curious who the groups of people you "hate" (your word) are.

Why hate groups of people instead of seeing people as individuals? 

I too would hesitate to have someone as a lifetime partner who "hates" entire groups of people unless there's a very good reason (such as racist hate groups or child molesters). Can you clarify?

[greendots]

8 hours ago, drdre said:

Honestly, I don't know now. I really want a woman that doesn't want to mold me by her preferences and recently I am a bit sceptical if a person can be forever married to someone. Given that there are so many divorces out there and people battling constantly... 

While speaking on the phone yesterday, I told her that I wished to be able to watch whatever I wanted to which she agreed at least a little bit but still insisted that watching negative things (murder investigations; sitcoms that make you "stupid"; even The Incredible Dr. Pol, because there are diseases and surgeries in it..) makes you miserable and affects you on the subconscious level, makes you have nightmares, etc. So one shouldn't "allow" negative things in his life (or outright avoid them).

I really want such a person. Apart from several of my "negative" points, she accepts the most of me.

In the way that she thinks that all people are equal and have equal rights for a given thing, while I don't like some groups of people, for example.

Let me get this straight, so you really want a person who accepts you for who you are. That's great! So, does your current girlfriend really accept you for you? Are these "negative" points, from her point of view or yours? I'm just asking because we are all a work in progress and people either accept us for who we are or they don't.

Let's put it this way, if I were to marry someone - I'd want to marry them for who they are now and not the 'potential' they could be down the line. That also means, someone who appreciates me for who I am today, and is willing to work together in good and bad, rather than someone who might flinch whilst looking for the exit door at the first possibility of difficulty.

What about you? Do you believe you can find someone who also desires to be married 'forever' with you? Because you can. Don't settle for anything less. Whilst, sure, there are plenty of divorces, there are also plenty of genuinely loving 'forever' marriages.

 

Lastly, so she thinks that people are equal and have equal rights for a given thing and you do not like some groups of people (I'm also curious to know which).  So, you don't seem to see eye to eye. How important is this matter to you?

[drdre]

2 hours ago, Jibralta said:

If this was my boyfriend's response to my disfigured breast, I wouldn't be too sure about our relationship, either. "Sorry you're a woman, babe. If you were a man, you wouldn't care about silly things like appearances."

Good lord. 

 

 

But it was not disfigured, why did you decide it was?? I know appearance is an important thing for many people, both women and men, but I am curious if you have to decide to live with a smaller breast or to die, what would it be?

[drdre]

2 hours ago, boltnrun said:

I'm also curious who the groups of people you "hate" (your word) are.

Why hate groups of people instead of seeing people as individuals? 

I too would hesitate to have someone as a lifetime partner who "hates" entire groups of people unless there's a very good reason (such as racist hate groups or child molesters). Can you clarify?

Of course it is more logical to see people as individuals and I do agree but I just don't like some groups of people, it is some internal emotion of mine. One of the groups is a minority in my country which is awful but I can't really describe it to you because of the big cultural differences between US and my part of the world. I live in a relatively conservative society which don't accept well "different" people. I am not saying it to defend myself, it is just what it is.

[boltnrun]

6 minutes ago, drdre said:

Of course it is more logical to see people as individuals and I do agree but I just don't like some groups of people, it is some internal emotion of mine. One of the groups is a minority in my country which is awful but I can't really describe it to you because of the big cultural differences between US and my part of the world. I live in a relatively conservative society which don't accept well "different" people. I am not saying it to defend myself, it is just what it is.

That's a shame. Particularly since you seem to be happy with your viewpoint.

I have to conclude your girlfriend has legitimate concerns. And so do you. You two are fundamentally incompatible. 

[drdre]

1 hour ago, greendots said:

Let me get this straight, so you really want a person who accepts you for who you are. That's great! So, does your current girlfriend really accept you for you? Are these "negative" points, from her point of view or yours? I'm just asking because we are all a work in progress and people either accept us for who we are or they don't.

I think she accepts the biggest part of me but the things I described above are relationship issues. The negative points are according to her. I really struggle much to accept that I should not be watching murder investigations because it is a negative thing and will be bad for me on an subconscious level. Or Dr. Pol the vet, or "stupid" sitcom or whatever.

1 hour ago, greendots said:

Let's put it this way, if I were to marry someone - I'd want to marry them for who they are now and not the 'potential' they could be down the line. That also means, someone who appreciates me for who I am today, and is willing to work together in good and bad, rather than someone who might flinch whilst looking for the exit door at the first possibility of difficulty.

I feel we are not one whole thing, like she is putting on the brakes and wants to have some "insurance" in case things don't work out. I can't deny she is (or was) willing to work on our relationship and tried different things (book, counseling, being more flexible, etc.).

1 hour ago, greendots said:

What about you? Do you believe you can find someone who also desires to be married 'forever' with you? Because you can. Don't settle for anything less. Whilst, sure, there are plenty of divorces, there are also plenty of genuinely loving 'forever' marriages.

I am somehow pessimistic in that respect. I do want to find such a person but I am progressively disheartened and I am not very young. I guess self-confidence also plays a role here.

1 hour ago, greendots said:

Lastly, so she thinks that people are equal and have equal rights for a given thing and you do not like some groups of people (I'm also curious to know which).  So, you don't seem to see eye to eye. How important is this matter to you?

Please see my previous post about these groups of people. This matter is not important to me at all, I just want her to not try to make me accept everybody (which she doesn't do). I may share her point of view in the future but I want to be because I've come to this conclusion.

[drdre]

4 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

That's a shame. Particularly since you seem to be happy with your viewpoint.

I have to conclude your girlfriend has legitimate concerns. And so do you. You two are fundamentally incompatible. 

I don't understand what's a shame? Can I have a viewpoint or not?

[Jibralta]

37 minutes ago, drdre said:

But it was not disfigured, why did you decide it was?? I know appearance is an important thing for many people, both women and men, but I am curious if you have to decide to live with a smaller breast or to die, what would it be?

It's your girlfriend's perspective that is most important here, and she upset. Yet you respond like you've missed my point--I don't believe that you really did. I think you are a deflector. You pick and choose what you want to acknowledge. Explains why HollyJ's questions have remained invisible to you for 24 hours while you addressed other posters' points with painstaking thoroughness 😉

[drdre]

9 minutes ago, Jibralta said:

It's your girlfriend's perspective that is most important here, and she upset. Yet you respond like you've missed my point--I don't believe that you really did. I think you are a deflector. You pick and choose what you want to acknowledge. Explains why HollyJ's questions have remained invisible to you for 24 hours while you addressed other posters' points with painstaking thoroughness 😉

I don't deny her being upset, of course. What was your point? I may have missed it because I am overwhelmed with responses here and at the same time we discuss the issues with my gf on the phone (for several hours for today), so excuse me, I am not always with full mental capability and I start getting exhausted. I think, though, that you may have something personal towards me? What is it that you feel the urge to qualify me? 

[Jibralta]

13 minutes ago, drdre said:

What was your point? 

I'm sorry, but I can't make it any more clear than I have. Perhaps you are genuinely unaware that you lack empathy and compassion. I am guessing that this is what your girlfriend has been wrestling with: you're not a mean person per se, but you are limited when it comes to sympathy and altruism towards people other than yourself. I think she will probably end up leaving you when she realizes it won't change. 

[drdre]

2 minutes ago, Jibralta said:

I'm sorry, but I can't make it any more clear than I have. Perhaps you are genuinely unaware that you lack empathy and compassion. I am guessing that this is what your girlfriend has been wrestling with: you're not a mean person per se, but you are limited when it comes to sympathy and altruism. I think she will probably end up leaving you when she realizes it won't change. 

Well, that's more clear now. Thanks! Me lacking empathy and compassion is a given fact or just a speculation? Is the limit movable and how? Is not having sympathy a bad thing by itself?

[Jibralta]

17 minutes ago, drdre said:

Me lacking empathy and compassion is a given fact or just a speculation?

Based on what I've read, it's my opinion. Since I don't know you, it's ultimately a speculation--as any opinion is under these circumstances.

17 minutes ago, drdre said:

Is the limit movable and how?

It can be. There was a period of my life where my empathy was very low, but I made a concerted effort to increase it. 

I just googled it and there are some articles out there if you're interested. Here's one:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/tech-support/201701/6-things-you-need-know-about-empathy

17 minutes ago, drdre said:

Is not having sympathy a bad thing by itself?

I think so. From a social standpoint, I think the more we make an effort to understand the perspective of other people, the better off we all are. But even from a completely self-centered viewpoint, I think it is better. I've learned that people tend to respond from a more emotional level than a rational one. You get more done when the people you are dealing with feel understood and appreciated. They tend to fight you at every turn when the opposite is true.