Are we still just friends? Or are we less?

[NycGuy2019]

You don't see in "gray" you see in tunnel vision .....

.....

 

Hindsight is 20/20 and her current boyfriend's now prolonged absence and dithering (regarding NYC visits, job in the US and investor visa) do, now, lead to a conclusion that is not quite complimentary. Tackling these incidents, one by one, as they occur, over a ~2 year period is a different story. And, that is what she has done, with piece-meal input from several people, including myself.

 

The contextual information about the boyfriend that I have typed above - about 90% of that info I received in the "too much information" sharing that she did with me very recently. I would certainly tell her, now, to walk away from her current boyfriend, but, this is a decision she has already taken a few months back, and is trying to implement slowly, a step at a time.

 

I see her current boyfriend's behavior as controlling and irresponsible, when I see it in its totality in one sweep, but, she has seen his behavior differently over time. And, this being her story to tell, she says that earlier on in the relationship, she has been okay with some of the chauvinistic, patronising, controlling, edgy alpha male behavior her boyfriend has shown. So that is just how the narrative unfolds and the cookie crumbles on this one.

 

To me, it's very much gray. She's part-victim, part-aggressor , part-irresponsible, part thrill-seeking, part rule-breaker. It is a heady mix of a cocktail. And having her in my orbit and thus being afforded a vantage point into the tumult that is she, has been quite a roller-coaster of a ride. It's a ride that I have willingly partook of, and it's the now 3+ year mark of this ride that has me questioning her near constant presence in my life.

 

I did tell her that had she been in my life for a season or two, it would have been okay, but her near constant presence for 3+ years, a duration that I personally did not envisage, has the alarm bells ringing at my end.

 

Why so?

Because a long term presence in my life is reserved for people who are special to me, and while she is very interesting and attractive, she has not acquired a special place in my life worthy of a constant presence. Neither have I acquired a special place in her life that would merit this constant presence in her life, especially when she does not suffer for lack of choice. I am sure there are tens, if not hundreds, of willing men, waiting with eager breaths to take on the spot that I have accidentally had in her life.

 

She has shared several anecdotes with me, of how men, mostly old men, have sent her messages and/or spoken to her, offering to be her mentor, her guardian angel, her "wise, all-knowing friend" who all promise to be her special connection, that is always there for her, at her disposal, forever. Actually, such generous offers of mentorship while expecting nothing in return - have reduced a bit, she says, once she turned 20. Between 16-20, she was flooded with such offers, including a very generous mentorship offer from a 75 year old prince-ling from somewhere that she was introduced to at a private club in NYC

 

So, the question that I ought to be asking, after 3+ years, is: why me, and more crucially, why still me.

 

The answer, now increasingly obvious, is to set my boundaries with her and gradually raise a fence. I need to fade out of her life .... and I will do this in a gentle and as non-judgemental way as I can manage to conjure.

 

Thank you, for your concern, your criticism, your scholarship and your direct approach to pointing out the gaps in my thinking. I am grateful.

[Wiseman2]

Is she an subordinate employee yours? That should have been " the plan" since 2016-17 when you claim you first encountered her when you were also a student at this campus. What exactly is the relationship now? Does she work for you as a teaching assistant?

 

You can chronicle your thoughts about all this in the journal section here, this way it will be easy to find your thread and record of this just like your opening statement with dates and years of chapters.: https://www.enotalone.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=64

non-urgent work scheduling topic, asking me to get back to her and clarify what it was about. My plan is to stick to this new messaging discipline, and reduce the interaction between us to a cordial minimum, work colleagues like Mon-Fri 9 am to 5pm.

[NycGuy2019]

Is she an subordinate employee yours? That should have been " the plan" since 2016-17 when you claim you first encountered her when you were also a student at this campus. What exactly is the relationship now? Does she work for you as a teaching assistant?

 

You can chronicle your thoughts about all this in the journal section here, this way it will be easy to find your thread and record of this just like your opening statement with dates and years of chapters.: https://www.enotalone.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=64

 

Fair question. No, I am not employed on campus in any capacity, I was a full time student when I met her (she was a full time student as well) and now I am an independent researcher affiliated with the college, doing my own research that is independently funded. The college does not employ me in any capacity.

 

I participate in projects that involve alumni as volunteers -which is how she got onto the same initiatives as me (she asks me all the time what stuff I am doing and then goes and signs up for the same initiatives/projects/events/competitions), and then ended up on the same project as me, twice, though it was probably a random allocation in all likelihood.

 

Also, in these project teams, I do not have a supervisory relationship with her - best way to describe our work relationship on these projects is that we are peers. But, yes, we do have some "work emails" about project meetings and agenda and project work.

[Wiseman2]

Ok so this is more of a crush on someone who volunteers as a research assistant? It sounds like your sun rises and sets to her but she is quite the social butterfly and you enjoy being in her orbit of fans.

I am an independent researcher affiliated with the college, doing my own research that is independently funded.

I participate in projects that involve alumni as volunteers -which is how she got onto the same initiatives as me.

[NycGuy2019]

Ok so this is more of a crush on someone who volunteers as a research assistant? It sounds like your sun rises and sets to her but she is quite the social butterfly and you enjoy being in her orbit of fans.

 

I think I may be getting too specific here, beyond the point of usefulness, but, we were both full-time students when we met on campus; me being in a longer program than her. I went on to do my research at campus and now am an independent researcher loosely affiliated with the campus.

She went on to get a job, we kept in touch. Now she's quit her job and just does stuff that interests her, including volunteering on projects on campus that she finds interesting - especially the start-up types. We're still in touch.

On campus, she is very much in my orbit. Off campus, I am sure she has some extra-curricular/ social activities, where I have been in her orbit at times, but not that much. I usually refuse off-campus stuff

[NycGuy2019]

....you enjoy being in her orbit of fans.

I have been large-hearted, supportive, and quietly observant through these 3+ years without being too friendly. I can't deny that I have appreciated the opportunity to get to know so many facets of an otherwise inaccessible and forever being chased person like her. The knowledge of our interactions is a real treasure, and given the feedback here, perhaps some day this treasure is the foundation for a novella.

 

In fact, she had asked me if we were close friends, quite a while back or so, and I had said no, we were just getting to be friends, close friendship would need a lot of work. She had felt terribly disappointed and had said so at that time.

 

Only in the last 6 odd months have I started to actually like a few things about her - specifically, the honest communication; the seemingly sincere desire to seek feedback from people and act on it; the journey to redemption in some parts of of her life where she needed to seek redemption (and my being a sucker for 2nd and 3rd chances); glimpses of a softer, gentler person that is also kind of maternally protective.

[boltnrun]

I find it interesting the first thing you mentioned about her is she is an "insanely beautiful ex model". Before all the ballet philosophy art stuff.

 

Of course I presume you realize if she were a plain Jane dumpy young woman you wouldn't find her nearly as fascinating.

[NycGuy2019]

I find it interesting the first thing you mentioned about her is she is an "insanely beautiful ex model". Before all the ballet philosophy art stuff.

 

Of course I presume you realize if she were a plain Jane dumpy young woman you wouldn't find her nearly as fascinating.

 

The honest answer is that I met her at a session in the college that I was conducting, and she was in the audience, and so, the fact that she is insanely beautiful is the first thing I noticed about her - that is the honest, undeniable truth.

That she is an ex-model is something I came to know later.

The fact that she is trained in ballet, I came to know much later, along with her interest in philosophy. Again, her interest seems more than superficial, but I will only know for sure when we have spent considerable time discussing these topics - we haven't gotten that far (see this thread for details)

 

The reason why I started my write-up this way, is that I wanted to use a hook to draw the reader in -- and this is the sort of hook that usually works well (See how successful Hollywood is with this simple device, for example)

[bluecastle]

(See how successful Hollywood is with this simple device, for example)

 

I get that I may persona non grata—all good, my skin is thick, and it's a public forum—but when you pepper in something like this it sounds a bit like you're bragging, or at least enjoying some mischief. All good. My own peacock feathers can be hard to control.

 

Still, it does make for a hard story to follow.

 

Have you read Breakfast at Tiffany's? You might find it compelling. While the movie version that dominates the public imagination is the story of Holly Golightly, provocative minx and elusive siren who eventually finds love and gets genuine with her loyal, straight-laced crutch and admirer, the Capote novella is a darker tale. The love affair exits only in the admirer's mind and, in the end, Holly just vanishes—poof!—leaving him holding her cat in the rain (while they kiss in the movie) wondering what strange vessel he had invested so much time and heart into.

 

The reward is not the girl, in short, but the growth that comes from learning that the girl was always a mirage in his desert. Sand through fingers. He needed her to let go of his own youth, which was already over when he met her.

[boltnrun]

But you don't agree with the other point I made, which is if she was not beautiful, if she happened to be a dumpy plain Jane, this "situation " never would have happened.

 

I presume others have asked for your guidance but you're not consumed with whether or not you're "friends" or more.

[Wiseman2]

Ironically it seems to come off more as a chronicled obsession replete with a detailed diary of every glance and conversation you ever had with her, if this entity even exits in more than your mind/fantasy. Line after line you just keep repeating yourself.

 

Rather it comes off as trolling or if you're not trolling, as a bit creepy to be this obsessed and have chapters outlined years in advance that haven't happened yet. If this is your writing experiment, why not use more academic methods? Trolling forums with rhetorical musings doesn't seem very scholarly.

The reason why I started my write-up this way, is that I wanted to use a hook to draw the reader in -- and this is the sort of hook that usually works well

[NycGuy2019]

But you don't agree with the other point I made, which is if she was not beautiful, if she happened to be a dumpy plain Jane, this "situation " never would have happened.

 

I presume others have asked for your guidance but you're not consumed with whether or not you're "friends" or more.

 

I volunteer, and in doing so, meet people all the time, including some who seem to have "fallen" for me and keep coming back to my sessions again and again. This is when I have a slight paunch, am certainly not fit for my age, my hairline has receded and I am not even handsome anymore - no eye candy there for them, I assure you. I have also had the experience of being excessively pursued to the point of feeling that I am being stalked by an otherwise fairly talented woman.

 

So, yes, I am not consumed with whether or not I am "friends" with most people who come to my sessions. In most cases, I don't really know who they are. I don't really know what they want.

But what I do know is that I have a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired through very hard work, skills that make me godsent for people like the ones who attend my sessions.

The previous line will sound like a boast to many, but it is a simple statement of fact.

 

Even in the case of Ms Beautiful, she is the one who made efforts to keep in touch, approached me for one-one coaching, which I declined. I suggested a group coaching thing instead, in which she received no special treatment. Even just recently, we were together when we met someone new, and I explained how Ms Beautiful and I had met, including this line about no special treatment for her. She was beaming all through the story of how we met, but interrupted me to tell this new person that there was a little special treatment for her, wink wink. There was actually, none.

 

I have made no special efforts to stay on in Ms Beautiful's life, and yet, here we are, still talking, still doing projects together at 3+ years of acquaintance. Also, I have written earlier in this thread that I have been "invested" in examining a future with other women during my association with Ms Beautiful.

 

To your point, if someone plain-enough had made the kind of regular and determined efforts that Ms Beautiful made to stay on in my life, then yes, Ms Plain would have been in my life too, in all likelihood.

 

And further, to your point, at that level of acquaintance and familiarity, I would then have asked myself whether Ms Plain and I were friends, close friends, less than friends, or in a relationship.

Of course, there is no Ms Plain in my life with such credentials, and so, the previous line is essentially fiction.

[NycGuy2019]

I get that I may persona non grata—all good, my skin is thick, and it's a public forum

You are welcome to write and advise. I won't be making any more comments on your life/story/situation though -and that is all I meant by no further comments.

 

....

but when you pepper in something like this it sounds a bit like you're bragging, or at least enjoying some mischief. All good. My own peacock feathers can be hard to control.

I agree that it can, and probably does sound like bragging.

 

....

The reward is not the girl, in short, but the growth that comes from learning that the girl was always a mirage in his desert. Sand through fingers. He needed her to let go of his own youth, which was already over when he met her.

 

What a lovely way to put it. It all happens in New York, doesn't it?

[NycGuy2019]

Ironically it seems to come off more as a chronicled obsession replete with a detailed diary of every glance and conversation you ever had with her, if this entity even exits in more than your mind/fantasy. Line after line you just keep repeating yourself.

 

Rather it comes off as trolling or if you're not trolling, as a bit creepy to be this obsessed and have chapters outlined years in advance that haven't happened yet. If this is your writing experiment, why not use more academic methods? Trolling forums with rhetorical musings doesn't seem very scholarly.

 

I think this is the second or third observation of this type - that my writing here is a journal, or a chronicle or is the outline of a book I will someday write. Not quite.

2019-20 is Now

Depending on how you look at the calendar, 2020-21 will start on January 1,2020 or April 1,2020 ie less than 3 / 6 months from now. To ask for advice on the forum, to determine how things will be in less than 3-6 months from now --- should be okay, it is is not that far out.