"Bad boys"

[dude12345678]

She was attacking both of us, so we needed to retaliate

[DaXMan]

I didn't read every post, but I unfortunately agree with this. I happen to agree with the link the original poster provided.

 

I can admit that I am more of a "nice guy" than a "bad boy". I am a bit shy around girls, but I do talk to them. Apparently, they will talk to me and be cool, but they really pursue the "bad boys".

 

In short, the "bad boys" who want some "action" and that's it get the girls. The "nice guys" who favor a relationship get nothing. It's not exactly "right" but that's the way things seem to be, or at least in high school where I am. Might partially explain why I'm 0-fer (more than 5 times) in my life...

[DaXMan]

I was just going to add some points from my own peronal experiences...

 

-I have never gone on a date, kissed a girl, gone "around the bases" or ever really touched a girl (like holding her hand or her hips).

-I admit I am a little shy around them but I do talk. I seem to get a good conversation going, buit that's about it.

-I've tried asking out early, middle, late (in the time I've known her) and all resulted in no's.

 

Also, I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I am not ugly and don't think I look that bad (no Brad Pitt, but better than a bunch of guys in my school). I think it's just that I'm more of a "nice guy" or better yet, a "good guy" and not some arrogant jerk who tries to get some from every girl he meets (but they do succeed at times).

 

It's fustrating - in most cases, the girl I ask is NOT out of my league either. Even some of my friends have found a gf and I am like them (regarding girls, if I am not even more aggressive), but I am still single. I don't think I'm even doing anything (or all that much) wrong, but so far I'm 0-fer. Why? Probably because girls view me as a "nice guy" or "good guy": who wants a relationship. The girls probably want "action" that they can gtet from the jerk.

[carmonie]

I've been in love with someone that had the outward appearance of a "bad boy" and so I innitially I didn't like him and didn't want to fall in love with him. He can be very selfish, (like he easily can tell me that he expects me to be understanding if he's got stuff to do but if I do the same thing he has a double standard) but for the most part he treated me good. Except when he was mad. I hate that fact.

 

I never like bad boys - what I was attracted to was someone who wasn't scared and someone who was confident. I am very shy and I have no idea how to make the first move etc so - a guy who isn't afraid to innitiate like holding hands or asking me out etc is very attractive.

 

I personally hate someone who treats me disrespectfully and I hate being lied to and even though, I like someone who's smooth and confident (outward appearance of a bad boy) I still want someone who is cuddly and loving to me.

 

In other if a guy treated me like crap - I wouldn't love him. Or if I did love him, I'd end up falling out of love.

 

I think a nice guy is the best one to have if, he has a little personality. He's gotta be interesting and patient and a good listner as well as a talker. But a man that treats me right, that keeps intrigue is who I'd find irrisistable. ( I already found that, except during his selfish days)

 

In short, stay your sweet self but keep the girl intrigued.

[yahoo2]

Could we sum it up by saying:

 

If you are not getting women as girlfriends, and are just friends with every woman you meet, DESPITE your attempts to be a boyfriend, then

YOU MUST change your behavior to get what you want, which is having women think of you as a boyfriend, not just someone to talk to. Too many nice guys exhibit nice guy behavior, and this is what happens to them.

 

Changing nice guy behavior to include a few bad boy behaviors is not "selling out." It's learning how to date, and understanding what type of behavior attracts women.

 

If your behavior consistently turned women off, and it was your goal to get a girlfriend, wouldn't it be a little crazy not to change your behavior?

How many years of failure must occur before a person decides his actions need improvement?

 

That's a personal decision, and ultimately it's their time to waste. However, speaking for myself, if I had tried dating for, say, six years and still had no girlfriend I would be just about mad with disappointment. My motivation to change happened long before that much time had passed.

 

I agree that giving "advice" about attracting and dating women when the adviser has no idea what works is pretty darn strange.

 

Putting yourself first is about confidence and success and does not mean you are a mean or thoughtless person. Women are attracted to confidence, and admire a man who has his own life.

 

Men who desire a girlfriend also do not stick around for months waiting on a particular girl, hoping she will decide in his favor while she dates someone else (stereotypical nice guy behavior, also know as fixation). They go out and look for someone who will reciprocate their affection. That's putting yourself first, and in a dating situation it is absolutely necessary to get a woman. You must pursue women who show definite signs of interest, and waiting around when you could be meeting other people is a losing policy.

 

I will join in some of the thought that says this nice guy/bad boy thread is way overdone and is getting old.

 

How about changing it to "Behavior that has been demonstrated to attract."

 

If you have had no luck in getting intimate with the opposite sex, then your behavior is disqualified, by any logical standard.

[MetallicAguy]

 

To sum it up, women want a bad *** on the outside, and a loving guy on the inside that knows how to push a girl's buttons. Thing is though, you can't be an *** hole, women don't like that. (Teasing doesn't mean your an *** hole get it through your head, for all you nice guys out there.)

[Caldus]

Bad boy this, nice guy that...

 

Sometimes it's simply where you are meeting women. Ever thought of that?

[ShySoul]

Dude,

 

Your precisely the kind of person I can't stand. No offense intended to you, its the attitude I don't like not the person. You talk about "getting pie" when you should be talking about finding love. Your placing sex before love, that's just wrong. The only girls who would respect that attidude have problems of their own. If a girl knew that was how you thought, she'd be dumping you faster then you can blink. And I think I know get where the term "jerk-off" came from, cause its the jerks who have to do that.

 

I get it, you said you were smacked around. You didn't get a clear vision of love when you were younger, so you don't have a clear vision now. Crying as a baby certainly isn't being selfish, you were simply expressing your need for such basic things as being comfortable and fed. Because you were a baby you couldn't express yourself in any other way and you couldn't do it for yourself. That's not selfish, that was realizing your basic needs. You do love a person even when they don't love you back, that's what is right and it makes you a bigger person doing so (not that this is why you do it, its just true but the reason is because its right).

 

Your talking about how money attracts girls and how he'll be "banging chicks." God I hope he finds someone else to take advice from. If he listens to you in will be desparately alone and unhappy, as you'll find yourself before you know it.

 

Dry,

 

Don't tell me that I don't have any experience in love or that I've never been in love. I've loved people with all my heart. I've cared more about others than most probably ever will. Maybe it's because I haven't felt that touch that I know what its about more then most. Maybe it's that people like you have become so complacent and so used to it that you have forgotten what's its really all about, lost the magic in it. You view love as a way in which anything goes. How can you expect to really have love if thats your attitude?

[wlfpack81]

No offense shysoul but since you're single I guess I can assume you "jerk-off" unless you just have no sex drive what-so-ever. I mean I don't mean to be rude but I really have to agree w/the other who are arguing with you. You're method hasn't gotten you anywhere yet so how can you offer that same advice to someone else. People like to invest in something that works, not something that has failed.

[ShySoul]

I tried to post this an hour ago but my stupid computer messed up. Kow, thanks to you wlfpack81, I just have more incentive to post it and show that it does work.

 

People like to invest in something that works? Well that doesn't explain the appeal of some of those infomercials you see but thats besides the point. I have been on this site for 10 months and almost 1200 posts. In that time I have given the same advice and said the same things that I've been saying to all of you. In that time I have gotten plenty of messages from people telling me thank you and how much I helped them. Just this morning I got a pm from a guy telling me that my words helped him, gave him confidence, and even made him feel more secure about a sexual issue he was dealing with between him and his girl. Another guy wrote me saying that he completely agrees with me, that being a nice guy does pay off without teasing or games. In fact, it works so well that he told me he was getting ready to ask the girl to marry him. And based upon the things the girl said about him I have no doubt she said yes. I've been in regular communication with two shy and nice guys. One is still working on overcoming his insecurites but has told me that I understand him and that he appreciates and admires my words. The other actually overcame his fear and asked a girl out, found out she has a boyfriend, and has since been found another girl and is getting the nerve to ask her out. And through it all he's bound and determined to stay a nice guy.

 

Plenty of girls have written me and told me that everything I say is true. And if girls are saying it, who am I to argue? And the girl who I asked for help when I first came to this site long ago has in no uncertain terms told me that girls want a gentleman who will respect her and be honest with her. She's been hurt by the bad boys before, she doesn't like them. Last time we wrote each other she was in a relationship with someone she called a "nice guy" and was happy.

 

It is clearly working for people, in my case the right person just hasn't come along yet. When she does I'll have been better off for the wait because I will value the love all that much more. I won't take it for granted, I won't do something stupid that causes unnecessary problems, and she will have someone who will give her years of built up emotions and devotion.

 

Guys, understand this. I am not looking for dates or for a girlfriend. I am looking for love. I have not failed in anything. If anything I am having more success than anyone else because I have already learned what I want, know how girls like to be treated (according to girls themselves), and can honestly saw I know how I am and won't back down from anything.

[wlfpack81]

Have to say shysoul I respect the fact that you won't budge from your stance despite being in the line of fire so to speak. I disagree with your opinions but at least you're not budging. Of course in my situation I wish I could stay the same but I feel that unless I change the game I'll be spending Fri/Sat nites w/my right hand forever. Of course my shyness is a major pain and is what's holding me back from evening beginning to make a change if I wanted to.

[dude12345678]

One thing confuses me. Shysoul, are you a girl or a guy? Your gender says male (the triangle) but you have a girls picture there. Aside from everything we've been discussing, I'm a little confused.

 

Anywho, I'm not offended at all by your comments. In my life, I really don't know anyone who can't stand my attitude, so it's great to finally have that.

 

If jerks are the only ones who "jerk off" then I guess every guy must be a jerk, cause I'm sure if you ask any guy if he masturbates, he'll probably say yeah, unless he is lying or doesn't have a penis. Like I said earlier, when we have girlfriends, we do it more. If you're wondering why, well.........you're gonna have to figure that one out for yourself.

 

I can't stand how you assume things about me. So far, I've only attacked what you said, however i've never assumed anything about who you are based on what you wrote. FYI, I was raised in a very loving environment. And speaking for myself, I was a selfish baby. I got smacked around when I felt I was bad. It's not really that abnormal. I'm 22, and living away from home on my own w/ a great career and am pretty successful for my age.

 

I am not putting love before sex, or sex before love. That's up to the individual, and what they want in their life at the time. Right now, I am not looking for love, but eventually one day (if you read what I said) I do want to find that special woman to fall in love with. Unfortunately, it just happens and you can't plan stuff like that.

 

"The only girls who would respect that attidude have problems of their own. If a girl knew that was how you thought, she'd be dumping you faster then you can blink. "

 

If you're a girl, that's one thing, but if you're a guy, I just can't comprehend the statement above.

 

When a guy see's a girl he's attracted to, the first thing that he thinks of is sex. That's an animal instinct. Then, if he's like me, he'll actuallly talk to her and look for an intelligent conversation. I don't just go after any hot girl that I see. There are tons of attractive girls out there, but the ones I go after have to have something more than breasts, legs , and smooth skin. ( of course that should be included) .

[wlfpack81]

Shysoul is a dude. Not sure who the girl is in his pic though.

[daisy]

Shysoul, I hope that you will NEVER change. You are rare, and you should be proud of that! There are guys out there like you, and I would like to personally thank you for being a mature & kind person that you are. Shysoul's smart. He's not out there to break girls' hearts. He's got much better things to do than that. There are plenty of things to worry about in this world other than, "Oh, women like bad boys." I for one, will never go for a bad boy, nor will I ever fall for a guy who personifies that bad boy attitude. Whoever wants to date a womanizer must be crazy. Besides that, I think its very oppressive for people to think that treating women like crap is the way to win her heart. That's terrible.

[dude12345678]

I've never broken a woman's heart. But a couple have broken mine. Even after using a word as insipid as "love" .

 

Shysoul, have you ever been in love w/ a girl? Just curious.

 

Love is a word that gets thrown around and people don't know what it means. I think it means that even after going through hell w/ someone, you can still be together. I dated a girl for 2 1/2 years and we said "i love you" a many times, and did show it in our behavior. However after a separation of 2 months, our relationship ended. That show's how strong it was..... I'm not a guy who breaks girls' hearts, however I am now smarter and a little more careful how I use the word LOVE, based on my own PERSONAL EXPERIENCES.

 

Shysoul, I would be delighted to hear about your own personal experiences dealing w/ "love". Please be specific, if you choose to share this w/ us.

[yahoo2]

Once again, ShySoul, you and the women who back what you're doing have got the "bad boy" points completely wrong. It is not at all about being a bad person, nor is it treating anyone like crap. You have an absolute fixation in that regard, and constantly misinterpret what we are saying.

 

Women judge you on what you do, and you may in fact be confident and secure in what you are doing. But you've gotta practice the right way. Most men's experiences need to include some success. You seem locked into what you are doing. Fine. Obstinancy is rarely an asset, though.

 

To truly find the right one, you must date many people. (Broken Record!!). You must find out what they are like when the intimacy starts. Relating to them in a platonic way and then declaring yourself a master of love and emotion ain't gonna get it. You don't have a clue in that regard. Trust me, when the meaningful touching and intimacy start, your head can kind of come unraveled. You need to experience that, and the sooner the better.

 

Until then, you have no accurate conceptions about love, intimacy, emotions, or any of it. That, and some misinterpretation of the message, cause you to cling to this post like you do.

 

You're trying to relate to it in the cerebral sense, and that's a poor substitute. Believe me, when in love, there's no substitute for actually experiencing all of it.

 

None whatsoever.

[ShySoul]

Once again, ShySoul, you and the women who back what you're doing have got the "bad boy" points completely wrong.

 

That sentence right there should make you think for awhile. I have women backing me up! Notice how every girl seems to be on my side here? Where are all the women seeing, yes we love games? I don't see then posting on this topic, instead I see girls saying I'm sweet and that nice guys are what they want. If you want to be successful with females, why not go to the source? Instead it's a bunch of guys backing each other up. I have a feeling that if we argued this in front of a group of girls, or asked girls on here who they agree with, most would pick me. How's that for success?

 

That's a thought. Let's test that out. Let's see how many girls post and back you up. Good enough proof for you?

 

Women do judge you on what you do. Let's see I call when I say I'm going to call, I'm available when she needs me, I pay her compliments, I listen to her, I do nice thoughtful, and considerate little things, let her know that I care about and think about her, let her know how important she is.... should be a favorable judgment. Based upon what other people have said the "bad boy" places themselves first, intentionally limits contact to create a sense of mystery, says negative things about someone that can easily be taken as mean (even if not intended) doesn't care what she is thinking or feeling.... doesn't sound favorable to me.

 

I don't declare myself a master of love, I've been told something similar by several girls themselves. Again, who should I listen to, a bunch of guys or the actually gender that I'm interested in?

 

That's insane to say I have no notion of love, intimacy and emotion. Again, pay attention to my posts. You must have missed the one about seeing people in tears for days because his girlfriend cheated on him or consoling the women who had one man walk out on her, the other turn abusive, and the third being an alcoholic. I know full well what love, intimacy, and emotions (as well as the lack of it) means for a relationship. And on a personal level, like I haven't cared so much for a person that I would give anything and do anything for her. Like I haven't been devasted when she got a boyfriend. Please, I've got enough experience to write a book. I've even thought of a title.

 

dude,

 

True love doesn't happen until it becomes forever, til death do us part and all that. But there are varing degrees of love and I've felt that. I know what its like to develop a friendship with someone and have so much in common only to know nothing can happen. I've cared for girls who clearly only say me as a friend, and for one that had trust issues that I helped her with only to see her with someone else. But it was my being nice that even allowed a friendship in the first place. Being nice was never a problem, circumstances and a lack of enough in common were.

 

When I look at a girl sex is the last thing I think of. There's nothing wrong with me, and I doubt girls want people looking at them and thinking of sex. I try to look for the inner beauty and get to know the real person. Every girl I have ever been attracted to has not been based upon looks at all. It's been there personality and who they are inside. My attraction for someone is never automatic, it grows from friendship. Once you see the inner beauty, there outer beauty will naturally shine.

 

Yeah, I'm a guy. I mentioned this before too (pay closer attention guys ) but the pic is of one of my favorite singers Miranda Lambert. Go to her website, listen to her music, and buy the album. You won't regret it. And thats been your sales pitch for the day.

[yahoo2]

None of these women that back you up are dating you.

 

Got the connection? Apparently not.

 

If you are doing the right things, then start dating and put those ideas to work, rather than doting on one particular, unattainable woman.

 

Get out there, and talk about reality rather than theory. Until you theories are based on real life, the conclusions you draw from them are apt to be misinformed. Your dating success confirms this.

 

Get experience, then presume to offer advice. Your assertions are not credible until you do so.

[annie24]

Let me just remind you all to stay on topic, and to refrain from personal inquiries.

 

-Annie

[wlfpack81]

Let's be real most people say what they want (or what they think) others want to hear. So many girls say they want a nice guy but end up w/guys who hurt them etc. Some of your female friends may be sincere shysoul but some are probably BSing as well.

[annie24]

Let's be real most people say what they want (or what they think) others want to hear. So many girls say they want a nice guy but end up w/guys who hurt them etc. Some of your female friends may be sincere shysoul but some are probably BSing as well.

 

I think wlfpack81 has a good point here. They say that people treat you the way you allow them to treat you.

 

For example, I set my friend up on a blind date with this guy I knew, "Jim" - an acquaintance. Jim seemed like a good guy, and I thought he would be a good match for my friend "kate."

 

Well - they hit it off, but a bit too well, IMO. Kate slept with Jim 2x on the second date. Then, he didn't call her. She was very very disappointed and hurt. When she confronted him, he told her that "he just got out of a long relationship and didn't want to be in a relationship right now." (Which I know is total BS because I know Jim. But, I didn't tell Kate that - I didn't want to hurt her feelings further. The truth is that Jim just said to me that Kate "wasn't his type of woman." .... IMO, probably because he thought she was a *beep* for having sex with him on the second date.)

 

He ultimately didn't like her enough to be in a relationship, but he liked her enough to sleep with her. Well - my friend shouldn't have been so eager to jump in the sack with him. Don't get me wrong - I like Kate a lot and I know she's not a *beep.* Just... sometimes, we don't think straight.

 

I do truly think Jim's a nice guy, he just did a "bad boy" thing in this instance.

 

See... this goes back to my initial post. First, we let guys treat us like trash, because we like them, and we don't know any better. But then, we get tired of being hurt and abused, so the nicer guys start looking better and better. For example, I think in the future, Kate will be a little more cautious when it comes to sleeping with a guy she really likes so early on.

[OceanEyes]

The never-ending debate of whether or not "nice guys finish last" will never be debated enough around here, will it?

 

What makes a guy a "bad boy" anyhow? Here are some things that I thought might be applicable:

 

* Not keeping their word.

 

* Being rude and selfish.

 

* Avoiding intimacy and other relationship types of things besides sex.

 

* Being insulting and playing head games.

 

Can a guy here correct me if I'm wrong? How are any of these things attractive to an emotionally-stable mature female? Besides the element of unpredictability and "danger" associated with the textbook "bad boy", most women will probably tell you that they're crap when all is said and done. Bad boys are fun and exciting until you get to know what's really underneath - which usually isn't much depth or intellect.

[Beec]

People often say they wants things and that is not what they want at all. I've seen countless women talk about a desire for a nice and sensitive guy, then end up with the opposite. Why? They don't understand themselves and what motivates them.

 

If you want a particular man or woman, even a long-term partner, you need to see what motivates them. Things change over time, and what once worked may stop working. By yourself, do what works, and these need not be mutually exclusive.

 

And Shysoul is not someone who thinks he needs to be kind and sweet 24/7. I think he thinks he is farther from those on the other side than he really is and vice versa. It is not in some of us to pick a fight or say something not quite nice, so what.

[OceanEyes]

People often say they wants things and that is not what they want at all. I've seen countless women talk about a desire for a nice and sensitive guy, then end up with the opposite. Why? They don't understand themselves and what motivates them.

 

This is obviously very true in some cases.

 

I'm having a really hard time figuring out what really makes a guy a "bad boy". When I think about that, and what it might mean, I always get this image of a guy cheating on me/ lying/ abusing, etc.

 

I'll be honest, that super-sweet and sensitive men don't attract me any more than a total dink. Sensitivity is only attractive when it's rare, and it seems like he's chosen YOU specifically to show it to. I'm not the type to cry at the drop of a hat, or share my feelings every day of the week, so it would probably creep me out.

[wlfpack81]

Thank you Ocean, finally a girl who tells it like it is. Most women out there feel this way. They say they want a nice man b/c society in general (especially religion) tells us we're supposed to act a certainy way. So people (not all) speak how society says we should but in their heads they're not thinking that.

 

This is way if you can become a bad boy then go for it.