Really need help, am I thinking straight??

[aroud]

Hey so I think today after the deterioration of my marriage that I am pretty much done. It's been a horrendous few months, and put simply we've had some real tests thrown at our marriage that have shown it's just not strong enough - and that's without kids. I'm 39 and I want kids one day, but I'm sure I can't have them with my wife because of all that's happened.

 

I feel destroyed inside and like I've wasted years of my life (don't dwell on this though - I'm a forward thinking constructive person), and given my age I just want out so I can have another go at finding someone I'm compatible with to spend my life with. My wife wants kids too (a few years younger) and so being in dysfunctional marriage isn't going to suit her either.

 

This is pretty unbearable. Today we had a conversation which turned into an argument when I (again) thought my wife was palming off responsibility to me that should at least be shared. I have been the sole earner for the past 6 months after we agreed I would work full time and her part time, but by the time she was ready to work part time I'd been made redundant and had been worn down by a terrible job (10-12 hour days) which at it's worst point resulted in me getting a tight chest and tingly feeling in my chest. I was really worried about this, so worried, but my wife was quite dismissive saying it was just stress. But I know it was a warning sign. All I needed was someone to stick it out with me for a few months whilst I turned things around but my wife mentally checked out of the marriage and in the final 2 weeks of my job before I was unexpectedly made redundant she was on holiday spending money I gave her each month, which I was fine with because we are married and I was the only one earning so I was paying her a salary, in effect.

 

I've had a couple of weeks away after getting a job (after being made redundant) - so it's about 6 weeks since I was made redundant and I immediately set about getting a new job, concentrating only on that, whilst my wife seemed to be in complete panic putting me under pressure to get a contract ASAP. If I'm honest she was no help at all during that time. I was the only one calm and taking positively and constructively. During my job when things were hard my wife would ask me what we would do when something serous happens (suggesting I lacked perspective) - but then the reality is when something serious happens she is no help.

 

Looking back on this and everything else, this was without kids - so with kids it's inconceivable that I can stay with my wife isn't it?

 

We used to be really close and loving before the big move. It was exciting, and for the first few months everything was great. However it's taken just a few months of adversity for everything to unravel and part of me knows this is not right. Being told I'd been given up on, being told that she is bored of listening to my problems (even when I'm fighting every day, applying for jobs) leaving me totally alone mentally, and having physical symptoms dismissed ... this is just so worrying for me and I don't know where to get my faith in the marriage from.

 

Physical affection dried up soon afterwards. Looking back I think it's because I can't feel love and affection for someone who (rather than just think it) tell you to your face that they are bored of listening to you and have given up on you and don' seem to care about the physical stress problems. How can I be affectionate towards such a person? And when I was at my lowest point, I mean low. I mean the blackest feeling I have ever experienced, feeling trapped, unhealthy, overworked. To be told that by the only person I felt I really had. I'm sure it was a drain for her - she said how hard it was watching me get battered mentally, but in the end she just switched off. That only took 2 months.

 

After that I realised I could only depend on me. No more after work chats, and I started concentrating on me a lot more. But still the physical closeness was not there. It's like both of us were feeling abandoned. Hard to make sense of even now.

 

When we've argued in the past few months she's told me why don't you divorce me several times, and that I've ruined her life (once) - and questioned our compatibility. I have never mentioned divorce, would never mention it unless I was serious. I would never tell her she ruined her life (you need to take responsibility), no matter if I resented her. Some things don't need to be said, but looking back maybe she's been looking for a way out.

 

My wife has said how things are not working out for her, that she needs someone to help her out and support her when she needs help - but I'm looking back and I don't know what more I could have given, and I drove myself to the absolute limits to the point where I'm worried about having a stroke or a heart attack - words which carried no weight with my wife. I'm asked to suggest solutions to problems which I always do, but then I find weeks later it's like they have been forgotten. I love my wife but when she's under duress I seem to be in her cross-hairs constantly, and have my behaviour picked apart. I get petitioned for more and more - especially when she's depressed about something. That drains me - everything from me to point where I feel like a terrible husband because it seems like I'm just making her life worse and worse. And being so drained from work and then further drained, it simply meant I was destroyed across the board in the end.

 

It's very important for her to feel beautiful and sexually desired, but there seems no perspective in that when someone is in a bad place with their job there are impacts on that slice for you that you used to enjoy. Again, explained, no effect, no understanding. No appreciation for the need to find a work-life balance, or hang in there until that is found and we can enjoy a healthy equilibrium, so that libidos can enjoy the lack of stress and thrive Now I look back on her behaviour and I find it all so unattractive. It's not helped. My sexuality isn't drive by visuals alone - there needs to be more.

 

So now I'm looking back at our relationship sort of kicking myself because the warning signs were there. But I never expected such a flight (not fight) response. I need someone who is up for a fight to turn things around, not someone who just talks about running away, and literally runs away - and that takes a couple of months. This is not marriage and I know it. I want a divorce (99% sure) but don't know if this is all grounds for divorce. In my book I can't see how I can be with someone who when trouble hits will check out so quickly.

 

I know I shouldn't check old messages and things like that but I remember one night where after 2 months of working myself into the ground and with a tight chest I'm told how I'm a dissappointing husband because when I came home I didn't notice my wife's haircut. I would have had I not come home feeling in pieces and burnt out - just unimaginably jaded. I've been paying for us both for months, but things like this don't seem to matter - it's more of a 'so what' which I don't understand.

 

She resents me a huge amount, I know this. It is the only way I can rationalise some of the things she has said to me. I have resentment too, and this has affected our marriage.

 

I am starting to think that a lot of this checking out is about children. When things were terrible and I was getting a tight chest and tingly feelings - there were two weeks like that - she asked when we were going to have kids (as we had been open to it when things were good) and I said I can't think about that right now. Can I blame myself for that? If she had fell pregnant in that kind of mess - which covers both our relationship and the finance side of it (we're going to scrape through the next month) I honestly think I might have been tipped over the edge. It would have been too much pressure. But then I understand how women need to sometimes make ruthless decisions when it comes to having kids. I am just guessing, but yes, I think when she suspected I might not be able to give her kids in a decent timeframe (I think again, this job trouble, my god I tried) that's when she switched. Still seems a bit harsh to me. I don't know. This is a huge ramble.

 

I also feel I'm depended on for too much. All the finances, all the plans to make changes of job and adjustments to work-life balance. In the latest argument I'm told I need to be more forceful (after she ignored my advice) and that it was not her fault for ignoring it. I can't contemplate the rest of my life taking on all this responsibility. When we were both working full time my wife said she was happier when she worked less, so I agreed and said work part time. But she took 2 months off work completely, said how upset she was that she didn't get to enjoy the 'not working' life before having to work again when she realised my job was going downhill and I needed help. She was so bitter about it, but what could I do? I just feel like I need someone with more of an in-built sense of responsibility, because I know now that if only one of us has that - it won't work.

 

I'm just in real need of help and am trying to work my way through everything! This forum is the only place where I can find people who can relate to this.

 

I've thought about marriage counselling but after everything I've seen I don't seem to be interested, if I'm honest with myself.

[dave_1966]

While you were working, she was on holiday? Who with? You sound like you have PTSD, get out of the marriage and look after No 1.

[aroud]

While you were working, she was on holiday? Who with? You sound like you have PTSD, get out of the marriage and look after No 1.

 

Yes, she said she needed a break from it all. Obviously there was no such break for me, just endless rounds of boxing when I'd already been dropped countless times. I don't quit though, sometimes a flaw. She told me she needed a break from it all - mental burnout of a different kind to me, but how could the only break mean a holiday in another continent sharing accomodation with her best friend? I think there's a difference between a break and a once in a lifetime holiday with your best friend.

 

Not sure it's PTSD as emotionally and logically I'm operating pretty well. I feel more like I'm waking up, and this is literally the first 2 weeks where I've had any space to myself with the ability to truly reflect. The fog is lifting. What I'm seeing is a train wreck.

 

Time and time again I think that I need to look after myself now, that things went too far. I seriously don't think a lot of people would have let themselves get driven to that point. I think it was pretty stupid, because there are heart attacks and strokes in my family - striking in middle age. Would I be a bad person for looking after myself now? I don't have to live in such a stress laden life. I can earn good money and live comfortably, coming home to a nice environment. Being alone would have been better for me than my marriage these last 6 months. I've lived for many years by myself in between relationships and am very independent.

[Lester]

Do you love her and want to be married to her?

 

Helpful hints:

- Women/wives are TOTALLY different from men/husbands. You expecting to change that is a fool's errand.

- You can't change a wife with words.

- Stop talking so much! Practice here on ENA. If asked a question, answer it in one sentence. Stop all hypothesizing..., you have no idea what's happening to you. Let us help.

[aroud]

Do you love her and want to be married to her?

 

Helpful hints:

- Women/wives are TOTALLY different from men/husbands. You expecting to change that is a fool's errand.

- You can't change a wife with words.

- Stop talking so much! Practice here on ENA. If asked a question, answer it in one sentence. Stop all hypothesizing..., you have no idea what's happening to you. Let us help.

 

Thanks Lester - so in answer to your question yes I love her, but no I don't want to be married to her anymore.

[Lester]

"...but no I don't want to be married to her anymore."

- Then all you need is an attorney.

 

If you change your mind or even have moments of indecision:

 

I too was in a failing marriage.

I experienced all of your issues and pains, tried all the usual "man" stuff, read many of the popC books and sat for hours with "pay to play" counselors.

 

Guess what, it all failed.

So I changed my direction, and saved my marriage.

 

Yes, there's a good chance it may be over, but without new knowledge, you will divorce, remarry and divorce again. (Yep, that's where many 2nd, 3rd, 4th..., marriages come from.)

 

Helpful hints:

- Read Gary Smalley's "If only he knew" (Never let her see this book! This is one of two books I credit for saving my marriage.)

- You can only change yourself..., and that's exactly where ALL a husband's power lies.

- Avoid defeatist people and advice.

[lostandhurt]

I have read your other threads and they all have the same theme.

 

First off you do not need anyone's permission or blessing to divorce your wife. That is your choice and you need to make it all on your own.

 

Reading your first paragraph all I saw was you feeding your ego. How many times did you mention being redundant? How many times did you mention yourself and how bad it was on YOU? Time to stop feeling sorry for yourself and take action.

 

Your wife as you have described her sounds like a selfish child. If what you wrote is accurate then like Lester suggested all you need is a lawyer to work out the legal aspects of divorcing her.

 

It would seem you Love her because of the familiarity and time spent but you are not IN LOVE with her.

 

Personally this doesn't look like a marriage issue as much as a compatibility issue. She wants a husband to take care of her financially, MAKE her feel beautiful and sexy ALL the time, cater to her whims, eat all his emotions and troubles because they are interfering with her happiness and solve all her problems for her but solve all his without any support or understanding. Reminds me of a queen and her servants.

 

Do you want to be a servant?

 

Lost

[aroud]

I have read your other threads and they all have the same theme.

 

First off you do not need anyone's permission or blessing to divorce your wife. That is your choice and you need to make it all on your own.

 

Reading your first paragraph all I saw was you feeding your ego. How many times did you mention being redundant? How many times did you mention yourself and how bad it was on YOU? Time to stop feeling sorry for yourself and take action.

 

Your wife as you have described her sounds like a selfish child. If what you wrote is accurate then like Lester suggested all you need is a lawyer to work out the legal aspects of divorcing her.

 

It would seem you Love her because of the familiarity and time spent but you are not IN LOVE with her.

 

Personally this doesn't look like a marriage issue as much as a compatibility issue. She wants a husband to take care of her financially, MAKE her feel beautiful and sexy ALL the time, cater to her whims, eat all his emotions and troubles because they are interfering with her happiness and solve all her problems for her but solve all his without any support or understanding. Reminds me of a queen and her servants.

 

Do you want to be a servant?

 

Lost

 

lostandhurt - Thank you for this. Much of what you say makes sense.

 

True, I'm definitely struggling with the huge decision I am contemplating. My lengthy posts recently are me trying to vent, validate, and conclude what I really think right now. If figured if I don't have an opinion I am comfortable with I can't hope to progress with all this.

 

I'm not going to argue against having an ego. I've got mine that's for sure. In black and white here it might sound like I'm into self pity, but I detest it since it flies in the face of action. Doing something. I'm happy with the dose of self pity I afforded myself these last few months. But I get it, it's time for action. I do feel that I'm in a position now to take action and be sure of myself without being argued out of it or talked into questioning my own mind. That's one of the positives I can take from my posts on this forum. That's what I badly needed.

 

I'm less interested in opinions about my wife right now. More interested in what I need to do, to get my life back on track. I also want to make sure my wife is able to cope with whatever happens.

 

Compatability - she has mentioned that she fears we're not compatible many times the past few months. I can't help but agree now. I guess I didn't want us to implode at the worst point, but rather delay it until we emerged on the other side. It's been damage limitation to reach the next port, and space for reflection and decision.

 

Your sum up at the end. Sounds correct apart from the bit about her supporting and understanding me. This does happen to a degree, but it tops out at a point where it's not even the support you'd offer a close friend. I've got a lower ranking. In marriage I know that's wrong.

 

If I continue playing this pseudo-servant role and my health being secondary to my wife then I'm more likely to end up dead before my time.

 

Thanks again. Food for thought and really helps.

[lostandhurt]

You need to forget about worrying how she will handle this and think of yourself. She was fine before you two met and she will be just fine after the divorce is done.

 

Make a secret plan and start looking into your options, liabilities, costs and what you want your life to be like. Then go over it all and make sure you are completely done and a divorce is what is best for both of you.

 

Lost

[aroud]

You need to forget about worrying how she will handle this and think of yourself. She was fine before you two met and she will be just fine after the divorce is done.

 

Make a secret plan and start looking into your options, liabilities, costs and what you want your life to be like. Then go over it all and make sure you are completely done and a divorce is what is best for both of you.

 

Lost

 

You're right, I know she will be fine. She has assembled friends here and has a support network which can get her through, including people she can stay with if she needs to. I don't have anyone I can stay with so would need to rent somewhere if it all got worse. I would have to borrow money to do this.

 

The last few days have been pretty awful. My wife is on a break back home in a different timezone and there's not much communication between us. I have been trying to set up a call between us but she's ignoring the question right now. I know we need to have a heart to heart about the last few months so be sure we both know what's been going on with each other.

 

I've been going through old messages trying to remember where she was at mentally at different points over the last few months. It's also reminded me that I truly believe she did everything in her capacity to help me, despite what I might think about it. Of course these messages only tell half the story and it seems crazy to me that I am relying on these messages to find out what happened, but she's not here right now. We've not had a heart to heart about everything because it was so overwhelming, and I took a 2 week break just as soon I signed my new contract. It has taken all of those 2 weeks to clear my head. Looking at some our old messages, they scream incompatability, again. She has wanted more support from me, I have wanted more support from her - neither seemed to be getting it. It's so overwhelmingly sad.

 

Apologies if this is a bit verbose. I feel so cut off and alone in talking about this, but I am seeing a friend later today who I know I can talk to.

 

What do I want my life to be like? Less stressful. Far less stressful. However with a new job starting and my wife who is focusing on having children, how is that going to happen? Maybe our chat will do some good. I really don't want to regret anything. I want to ensure I've got all the facts right. I'm guessing everyone in this kind of position agonises over and over at some point and repeatedly gets upset about how it got to this stage. It would sound more acceptable if I were not a man to say how awfully upsetting this has been, how often I've broken down and cried by myself about how wrong it's gone (I don't want pity - writing here just helps me). Not through indulging in self pity, but those moments where the lid suddenly comes open in a split second and you can't stop the tears. Have any other men here experienced this?

 

My wife will be back in a few days and she will have had time and space, and I will have had my time and space. We will find out what is left and what we both want to do. I can't help think that my dealbreaker will stress and kids, and for her it will be emotional support and kids too. I don't know if our pieces of the jigsaw will fit together. It feels so desperate right now, but I'm trying to stay positive. I do not plan to speak to her very much about my problems and how I've felt because this is one of the things that pushed us to the edge. I feel guilt for having burdened her so much, terrible guilt, but self hating isn't going to get me anywhere is it. Nor is self pity.

 

Moving forward with the new job starting I struggle to see how we could live together when I know I would have to keep a lid on work stuff when I get home. Up until a few months ago I always took it for granted that that's what couple's do when they get home from work. But maybe we're changing too much and it doesn't work anymore.

[Purusha]

Wow - quite a lot going on for you right now, or at least it does seem that way.

 

For me, I see a lot of conflict arises from good marriages by each partner not understanding each other's needs and coping strategies.

 

Put it this way, before the situation with the job would you call your marriage lacking in love, support and understanding? By the sounds of it you had all of that and by that token, I can't assume that your wife's motives behind her behaviour are coming from a badly intentioned place but one of survival. When things go wrong and you guys are dealing with your negative instead of positive emotions, things go a bit wrong mainly because most people don't know how to deal with and communicate negative emotions in a way that supports their partner, it spirals and then you get a war.

 

Some of what I say might sound quite simplistic so I apologise in advance if this seems obvious to you, but I think it's worth considering to gain perspective in your situation.

 

Methods of survival between the sexes varies because of socialisation - men are taught to buckle up and solve the problem, women are taught to be present with the person and the emotion - both parties feel disenfranchised and insignificant if the same isn't given in return.

 

In this way, because you're focus is on problem solving and not being emotionally present with your wife she has likely switched off and feels drained because this is her go-to focus when dealing with problems, you then feel unsupported and abandoned because she has switched off and is not assisting you with dealing with the problem.

 

The mutual emotional neglect leads to anger because you both feel the distance, more anger because more distance is put in because you're both trying to cope, resentment creeps in because neither are getting your needs met, and a determination that because of this, it's just not working.

 

For your wife, what she wants is your emotional presence (this is what she means by wanting to feel beautiful and to have attention - she wants you to be with her), for you, you need her to be active in solving the problem with you. This is how you both cope, the rest is just window dressing.

 

If you can meet both of your needs in this way, this can be saved if you can understand each other better and how you communicate love and support and what both of your needs actually truly are.

 

A tip for you to be more 'present' with your wife is to not focus on the problem, but the feeling behind it - for her, she will need to access the helplessness she feels behind her disengagement.

 

Coping mechanisms take years to develop and they are often a default and rarely understood - you both will need to be prepared to be vulnerable and honest with each other, with the caveat that when you do this no attacks are allowed in this space, just gently and openly listening to each other's feelings and needs. This is a situation where you both need to feel safe, and if that's violated then you are entering abusive territory.

 

I really hope this works out for you, you sound like a nice chap who's not quite ready to throw in the towel - ultimately you both have to do what's right and good for both of you and if this situation isn't transformative in your relationship it will at least be decisive.

[aroud]

Purusha - thank you so much for your post. It really made me think about what has happened in a different way, and a lot of it makes sense to me.

 

Wow - quite a lot going on for you right now, or at least it does seem that way.

 

For me, I see a lot of conflict arises from good marriages by each partner not understanding each other's needs and coping strategies.

 

Put it this way, before the situation with the job would you call your marriage lacking in love, support and understanding? By the sounds of it you had all of that and by that token, I can't assume that your wife's motives behind her behaviour are coming from a badly intentioned place but one of survival. When things go wrong and you guys are dealing with your negative instead of positive emotions, things go a bit wrong mainly because most people don't know how to deal with and communicate negative emotions in a way that supports their partner, it spirals and then you get a war.

 

Love was never lacking before it all went downhill. Support and understanding not perfect but there sufficiently enough, and I don't think perfection is realistic anyway. We were happy. I've been going through our photos and videos right up to the point where things started to go wrong. We had some great times, smiling faces. We looked so happy, and that's how I remember it for the most part.

 

Yes - her behaviour, for her I'm sure, was out of survival. I definitely think she felt I was not giving her the emotional support she needed. I did my best, but feel so sad that she felt cut off and helpless. Now I know how much she depended on me for emotional support, and what effect this kind of work-related disaster can have on a relationship. Her not being able to work meant she could not support me financially, and obviously it's regrettable she didn't prioritise that above socialising with friends and family and just be frank with them saying what was actually going on. I was encouraged to not tell them what was actually happening and sort of pretend things were much better than they were. Not an easy thing for me to do, but I did it nontheless.

 

Some of what I say might sound quite simplistic so I apologise in advance if this seems obvious to you, but I think it's worth considering to gain perspective in your situation.

 

Methods of survival between the sexes varies because of socialisation - men are taught to buckle up and solve the problem, women are taught to be present with the person and the emotion - both parties feel disenfranchised and insignificant if the same isn't given in return.

 

In this way, because you're focus is on problem solving and not being emotionally present with your wife she has likely switched off and feels drained because this is her go-to focus when dealing with problems, you then feel unsupported and abandoned because she has switched off and is not assisting you with dealing with the problem.

 

The mutual emotional neglect leads to anger because you both feel the distance, more anger because more distance is put in because you're both trying to cope, resentment creeps in because neither are getting your needs met, and a determination that because of this, it's just not working.

 

For your wife, what she wants is your emotional presence (this is what she means by wanting to feel beautiful and to have attention - she wants you to be with her), for you, you need her to be active in solving the problem with you. This is how you both cope, the rest is just window dressing.

 

These paragraphs hit me like an arrow, honestly. I agree that it's likely she checked out, drained, and tallies with a lot of things she said to me in my zombie-like states.

 

And me feeling abandoned, that's spot on. That's one of my largest gripes looking back. And being told I'd been abandoned and given up on - it's a crushing experience, but it's in the past now.

 

And so yes, mutual neglect manifested - regardless of the causes for it. When you're neglected you switch into a more self-reliant mode, as I did, as she did. And yes, much of this leads to the conclusion that it's not working.

 

So wow - that's some really awesome insight, summed up so well. Thank you.

 

If you can meet both of your needs in this way, this can be saved if you can understand each other better and how you communicate love and support and what both of your needs actually truly are.

 

This is the real challenge, as I think we both feel terribly misunderstood. I think a lot rests on what each of us have gained from the space there has been between us, hoping of course that we've not mentally switched so far away from our love and previous connection. What I mean, is, maybe the love and connected feelings can return. I think we both have needs which were there before but have become hugely apparent during the bad times. I have this remaining feeling that there's no guarantee each of us can change our traits and personalities sufficiently for each other. I feel like I have considered a lot what I really want from a marriage. My views have changed somewhat. I feel like this whole experience has changed me as a person.

 

But maybe things can be saved.

 

A tip for you to be more 'present' with your wife is to not focus on the problem, but the feeling behind it - for her, she will need to access the helplessness she feels behind her disengagement.

 

Coping mechanisms take years to develop and they are often a default and rarely understood - you both will need to be prepared to be vulnerable and honest with each other, with the caveat that when you do this no attacks are allowed in this space, just gently and openly listening to each other's feelings and needs. This is a situation where you both need to feel safe, and if that's violated then you are entering abusive territory.

 

I really hope this works out for you, you sound like a nice chap who's not quite ready to throw in the towel - ultimately you both have to do what's right and good for both of you and if this situation isn't transformative in your relationship it will at least be decisive.

 

Our communication about needs and wants is prone to turning into defensiveness and arguments depending on what's going on at the time.

 

One of the problems I have is that after we moved, we're in an environment where for me personally my professional life is at a much higher difficulty level. It demands more energy and attention, and whilst I like to think I can always have enough left for my marriage, there's no guarantee. It is unfortunate that my wife does not believe our problems are anything to do with moving and all the instability this has caused. We have different philosophies on what constitutes a happy life - and what provides the foundation for a happy life, and for me a bi part is reducing stress and not inviting more of it. Moving was great, but I feel so jaded that all I want now is to de-stress, especially after the health-scare. Having a discussion about plans to have a child worry me the most. She could very well give me an ultimatum that to be honest I'm not prepared for and I don't know what I would say.

 

As you say - you need to do what's right for you. I agree that this situation has already been transformative, and with the subject of children on the agenda it cannot help but be decisive also.

 

Thank you again, you really made me think and it has helped dissipate some of the anger I have felt.

[Purusha]

Hi aroud - I'm glad it helped, I have a few more thoughts about the situation which might provide some ways to possibly deal with things (regardless of the outcome).

 

Part 1 (trying to make this understandable!) - Emotional Support

 

Emotional support - the ideas about what this actually is, is also often misunderstood between the sexes. Women are taught presence, men (for the most part) are not - this is why women are seen as more nurturing than men but it's not actually true, it's a result of socialisation. To understand the subtle dynamic at play here, ask any woman who is having difficulty in their relationship whether they feel that their man is emotionally connected to them and the answer will likely be no, regardless of whether he's sat listening to them or doing something about the situation.

 

The reason is that a woman can sniff out almost immediately whether someone is 'feeling' them or mentally taking notes.

 

When someone is listening to someone from a mental standpoint it's really a way to avoid a heart connection and being emotionally present, and taking action before understanding avoids that connection altogether.

 

'Feeling' someone is emotional support, connecting to their heart - and it's a mutual exercise, it's not enough to do that for someone else, the man must also be prepared to be seen emotionally and to be vulnerable - this is really what emotional support is. It's not doing something about it or taking mental notes, it's allowing a feeling space between you so that both people feel seen, heard and understood on an unconditional level.

 

To do this, you'll both need to get underneath the justifications and reasoning to access the true emotion that underlies the situation so that you both feel seen, heard and understood. As a real example of how this works an example's below:

 

Mental reason for anger: 'I'm angry with you because instead of being with me and supporting me to resolve our financial issues you bailed out and went off with friends/family leaving me on my own to deal with everything.'

 

Emotional reason for anger: 'I feel anger because when you left I felt abandoned, unsupported, and isolated. I feel confused and depressed because I feel like I'm losing you emotionally, I still love you and want to understand how we can support each other so that we can deal with this together as a team.'

 

The difference between the two is that for the mental reason, it assumes a destructive quality to the other person's actions which in all likelihood isn't taking place - it's not about you, it's about the other person's emotional survival.

 

The mental aspect is a defense mechanism for the hurt and isolation that is really being felt underneath, but isn't being communicated - the other person will pick up on the defense and will either go into further defense or attack to protect their heart because they don't want to be the bad guy and that's how they will feel like they're being perceived.

 

I hope the difference is clear, but let me know if you need it explaining any more - it's not something that we're taught or brought up with, we're usually brought up with the destructive kinds of communication.

 

That's the reason that I said that if you can talk from this space, you must both agree that no cheap shots or attacks can take place - this is a conversation for the heart, not the head and a practice in the art of emotional presence and vulnerability. Any attacks from this place is an act of abuse.

 

Part 2 - Needs

 

Every person in the land has different priorities in the needs that they have, and it's really useful to understand what yours are and what your partners are. These can be broken down into:

 

1. Certainty (the need for stability, safety, consistency)

2. Uncertainty (variety, excitement)

3. Significance (to be needed, wanted, worthy of love)

4. Love and connection (communication, connection and unification with other people)

5. Growth (the need to learn, expand and move forward)

6. Contribution (the need to give beyond ourselves, a higher purpose)

 

With your wife, for example, I'd be willing to bet that her need to go on holiday with friends and family and socialise, is the communication of her need to feel significance, and love and connection - this is how she moves away from you because of the emotional presence dynamic.

 

For you, you're transmitting your need for certainty, significance as well as love and connection to your actions to resolve your situation.

 

So you both have similar needs, but you're trying to obtain them in different ways. Once you both understand what your needs are, and how you're trying to get them, you can do something about it so that you both feel connected, understood and therefore loved.

 

A major component of love itself is the ability to connect with your partner on this heart level, to see them for who they are without expectation or attachment of who they should be - it's the ultimate acceptance and validation that really, we all desire.

 

Part 3 - Trust

 

The aspect of trust is hugely important - trust is essentially the knowledge that the other person is capitalising on your own best interests, and vice versa.

 

Situations that breed misunderstandings, defensiveness and confusion erode that sense of emotional trust as the actions that someone has taken are seen as an attack rather than as a way for them to emotionally survive, and we therefore don't see the other person as having our best interests at heart.

 

Rebuilding trust will take place as a part and parcel of sharing your heart, providing a space for each other to be who you are and be seen, heard and understood and then taking action to support each other's needs and desires.

 

Obviously, if you share your heart and someone is unable to do the same and they actively go about ignoring, acting against, or disparaging your needs and desires you have your answer that a healthy relationship cannot happen with this person.

 

Part 4 - Changing

 

The thing to understand is that this isn't about changing your personalities, it's about changing your level of understanding.

 

The space that this comes from is allowing yourself and the other person to be exactly as they are, but of getting underneath the surface layer of defense mechanisms, coping mechanisms and layers of communication to see what's going on underneath the hood.

 

For example - your wife keeps bringing up children at the moment at a time when you feel the most uncertainty and the most insecurity in your relationship. My understanding of that is that she's asking you for a sense of certainty - is she still the woman that you want this with? Are you still with her? Are you still commited to her? These are things that she's likely not feeling at the moment because of the situation that you're in and she's asking you whether you're still with her.

 

By your reply stating that 'you can't think about that right now' - this adds to her sense of uncertainty, so she will become either more desperate for it or more distant, or a combination of both.

 

If she is still that woman for you, a good example of a reply to her would be something along the lines of: 'You're still the woman I want all of those things with, I want to be with you and have a family with you so much - at the moment what I'm focussed on is that I want to be able for us to have a solid base to do that, but yes, I want that and I want you. I feel frustrated and inadequate that I can't give to you at the moment, because it's what I really want. How are you feeling about it? (If she's feeling bad or insecure) Is there anything I can do to help you to feel better?'

 

We tend to think that we know our partners inside and out and it's usually not true, all of us are always growing as a result of life, approach her with curiosity and of wanting to know her heart rather than any foregone conclusions and you'll get much much further. I would also advise that you approach yourself with the same!

 

In this way, I hope I've made it clear that this isn't about how much effort you can put in, or what you have to give - this is mutual sharing and support.

 

This isn't something to fix, this is something to understand - the stress that you feel more likely comes from the resistance to the feelings of your wife, and of your own feelings, once you release the pressure and allow that emotional space to be open and supportive on a mutual level, your stress levels will naturally decrease.

 

If I were you I'd focus on understanding and presence, and if love can still exist between you it will come as a natural consequence of that - either way you will have your answer.

 

I'm sorry that this is so long, I couldn't find a shorter way of saying all of that and I hope that you glean something from it and if there's anything that is confusing, please let me know.

 

Best of everything to you

[aroud]

Hey so thanks everyone and I thought I'd let you know how I'm getting on.

 

In the last few days I've let go of a lot of anger. I think the 3 weeks now of space have really helped. I've vented, been angry, and returned to planet earth. I can see more clearly now, and it's times like this I really see the benefit of forums like this. Such a lifeline, allowing people to work through their problems.

 

My wife is coming back today and we've not had our heart to heart yet. It will come and I don't know how things are going to pan out. The prevading feeling is that unless things seem right, we're both at ages where a gamble isn't going to cut it if your gut feeling is saying no. Being by myself I've had moments where I've felt good about myself, feeling inner strength returning, and I'm reminded how seldom I've felt that way through the years. I missed it, but I've not missed my wife - which sounds so terribly cold I know, but I think it's significant. Is it because the resentment got too much? Is it because I'm actually better off by myself? It worries me that I have felt so comfortable by myself.

 

The hard bit is going to be the conversations. We're both starting new jobs on the same day, and for me personally I know I won't be able to cope with a marriage meltdown plus the opening months of a demanding job. People close to me have suggested I might want to think about temporarily separating so I can at least get my job in the bag, and with cold hard logic I think that's a good idea, but it would be so nuclear.

 

I really want a heart to heart with my wife, but in the past they've always been initiated by her and at 11pm at night before work the next day. I can't be doing that anymore. There must be another way.

 

But honestly if things don't go well in the next few days and I'm looking at stress at home and limited sleep, that's going to be poison for getting through my probation - and losing this job would be a disaster not only for me, but for both of us as my wife only has 2 months of work, whilst mine is a permanent position.

 

At the same time I want my wife to start her new job well and get back her independence, which I think is really important for her and will make her feel better about herself. Hopefully this can all work out somehow.

[Purusha]

Hey so thanks everyone and I thought I'd let you know how I'm getting on.

 

In the last few days I've let go of a lot of anger. I think the 3 weeks now of space have really helped. I've vented, been angry, and returned to planet earth. I can see more clearly now, and it's times like this I really see the benefit of forums like this. Such a lifeline, allowing people to work through their problems.

 

My wife is coming back today and we've not had our heart to heart yet. It will come and I don't know how things are going to pan out. The prevading feeling is that unless things seem right, we're both at ages where a gamble isn't going to cut it if your gut feeling is saying no. Being by myself I've had moments where I've felt good about myself, feeling inner strength returning, and I'm reminded how seldom I've felt that way through the years. I missed it, but I've not missed my wife - which sounds so terribly cold I know, but I think it's significant. Is it because the resentment got too much? Is it because I'm actually better off by myself? It worries me that I have felt so comfortable by myself.

 

The hard bit is going to be the conversations. We're both starting new jobs on the same day, and for me personally I know I won't be able to cope with a marriage meltdown plus the opening months of a demanding job. People close to me have suggested I might want to think about temporarily separating so I can at least get my job in the bag, and with cold hard logic I think that's a good idea, but it would be so nuclear.

 

I really want a heart to heart with my wife, but in the past they've always been initiated by her and at 11pm at night before work the next day. I can't be doing that anymore. There must be another way.

 

But honestly if things don't go well in the next few days and I'm looking at stress at home and limited sleep, that's going to be poison for getting through my probation - and losing this job would be a disaster not only for me, but for both of us as my wife only has 2 months of work, whilst mine is a permanent position.

 

At the same time I want my wife to start her new job well and get back her independence, which I think is really important for her and will make her feel better about herself. Hopefully this can all work out somehow.

 

Hey aroud,

 

I'm happy to hear that you're starting to feel better - sites like this are great for venting for sure.

 

I suspect that the reason you've felt better with your wife not around is that she is the primary source of stress and the situation with her has been causing you such upset, that the absence of that has been a relief and has given you room to process how you feel without having to deal with the situation at the same time.

 

I don't think being comfortable by yourself is a bad thing at all - it's a great thing to settle more into who you are, what you want and what you feel - it can be hard to do that and maintain perspective when you're trying to field another person's emotions. Personally, I would recommend that you stop fielding and practice being open about your emotions and owning how you feel, without trying to manage hers (that in itself is exhausting and ultimately pointless anyway, it just makes us feel more in control).

 

Do what feels good to you - if separating and finding your feet feels good to you, do that - always trust your feelings.

 

Why not break the mould and initiate the conversation at the best time for you? If it were me I'd not be up for a conversation like that at 11 at night.. that would kill me the next day, go for whatever gives you as much feeling of 'ease' as possible.

 

Good luck aroud - you sound in a better place and I wish you all the best

[aroud]

Hey aroud,

 

I'm happy to hear that you're starting to feel better - sites like this are great for venting for sure.

 

I suspect that the reason you've felt better with your wife not around is that she is the primary source of stress and the situation with her has been causing you such upset, that the absence of that has been a relief and has given you room to process how you feel without having to deal with the situation at the same time.

 

You've done it again. That must be it. Despite all of the work problems I've had it's not that which stresses me. Despite the money issues, it's not those which preoccupy me, it's the sheer scale of the problems I have with my marriage and how bad I feel about it. It's relief that I have been feeling, and to taste my old self again has been wonderful in a very self gratifying way, but I'm still alive somewhere, the real me.

 

I don't think being comfortable by yourself is a bad thing at all - it's a great thing to settle more into who you are, what you want and what you feel - it can be hard to do that and maintain perspective when you're trying to field another person's emotions. Personally, I would recommend that you stop fielding and practice being open about your emotions and owning how you feel, without trying to manage hers (that in itself is exhausting and ultimately pointless anyway, it just makes us feel more in control).

 

I have tried being open about my own emotions, but these conversations go nowhere of late because she doesn't have any bandwidth to deal with any of my emotional difficulties. I will not get any sympathy from my wife or constructive help - I truly believe she is completely sick of me.

 

Do what feels good to you - if separating and finding your feet feels good to you, do that - always trust your feelings.

 

Why not break the mould and initiate the conversation at the best time for you? If it were me I'd not be up for a conversation like that at 11 at night.. that would kill me the next day, go for whatever gives you as much feeling of 'ease' as possible.

 

Good luck aroud - you sound in a better place and I wish you all the best

 

So tonight my wife got back and it went downhill pretty quickly. She had a new haircut before she got back, and as we were on the train back home she got very upset that I'd not said anything yet. This is a recurring theme, where I hit a time-out. You know this situation was so loaded I was never going to get the script completely right, but after I'd made this mistake things unraveled quickly. It was so upsetting because in that situation the same pattern was about to repeat. I would be there trying to explain that I had noticed but would say something as we got talking again. We'd not spoken in weeks and I just wanted a conversation, to speak to her. I find it very hard to be a robot. I'm not a conventional type of guy, and will never be. I think at that moment she just gave up all over again.

 

As the evening continued, although I did everything else like pick her up, give her a warm kiss and hug, tell her about the good news about our visas (which I managed to secure this week), make her food when I got back, gave her a present I'd got from my trip away - none of it mattered. She said how bad she felt coming home to this misery and the same old stuff. And I just felt awful. I turned to her and said I just wanted us to come home, have dinner, and catch up - have a normal conversation at least - it's a start. Instead she turned to me in the cab and sarcastically told me about how people were where she had visited - pointing out that I'd not asked yet. I was sitting there just upset at how things had already got off to a bad start and then they go from bad to worse. It's like a dam bursting and there's nothing you can do about it. It was just so crushing you know? I was aghast hoping this wasn't going as badly as it was.

 

As all this went on, I felt the weak persona coming back - the one that feels inadequate, as if nothing I can do or say will mean I'm a good husband. And I hate that persona so much. The person I felt for those few days recently had been erased in the space of 30 minutes. Everything I had hated about our marriage had come back in full force to remind me what it felt like. I feel like half a person in my marriage.

 

Later on I said I was sorry and didn't want her to feel like she's come back to misery. She said it's the same old problems, and looked at me with surprise when I said we have a lot of other things to discuss about the the last 6 months - not just this issue about her feeling not noticed physically. Its a massive problem from her point of view.

 

She said she feels invisible, insignificant. I can't help but think back to my own belief that this is stemming from me getting wiped out mentally and not being there for her. My wife is hurting just as much from the perceived neglect as she was 1 month ago, 2 months, 6 months. It's the same. And I'm so tired of the same conversation over and over. We're not getting anywhere.

 

I really tried tonight to welcome my wife back and try to ease back into some normal conversation, but my lack of attention has destroyed it in a second. I actually hate being this person, this person who doesn't notice her and makes her feel this way. But at the same time it makes no sense that this unhealthy dynamic is simply all my fault. This makes no sense - I'm a warm and loving person.

 

I will be honest - it's gone worse than I imagined, and this risks kicking off at any time over the next week. It places a huge risk on my mental health and getting off to a good start with this job. I have been looking at places I can rent for a month because I know I don't want to continue like this. I am losing myself, and just see a path where I have to be the weak persona who can't make his wife happy. There is something so incredibly one-sided about the way my wife engages with me. I feel so resented.

 

I thought I would be in higher regard having worked a minor miracle to get both of our visas processed quickly so she can start her job on Monday. She doesn't believe I deserve any appreciation for this, or rather it is insignificant to her. She's not said this, but there's simply no comment about it. Even when I said good news about the visas. I had to think on my feet this week to find a way and I know some people wouldn't have been able to do it. I feel so undervalued.

 

We are going to go round in circles unless somebody does something. I can't take being this other version of me any more. I want to walk into work feeling like the real me, the strong me. I've just bought groceries at a check out with my eyes welling up with a lump in my throat because of how upsetting this is.

 

I don't want all my memories of my relationship with my wife to become this mess we're now in. I am on the verge of just booking some rented accommodation and telling my wife something has to give and I can't go on like this. We've been apart for weeks and nothing has changed - just the same old horrible patterns. I hate this.

[Purusha]

Hi aroud,

 

I'm so sorry that things went the way that they did - it sounds horrendous, no one wants to be in that situation.

 

At the heart of this the irony is that she feels invisible and insignificant, and her reaction is to make you feel invisible and insignificant, it's a vicious circle.

 

The root cause of this isn't either of your faults, essentially we're not taught to communicate in a way that is open, supportive and nurturing - it's a generational problem that's so common in society, this isn't just about you as much as it isn't just about her - you have absolutely no reason to beat yourself up.

 

You've listened to everyone here with different ideas about how to approach this and have been open minded and non-defensive, I don't imagine that you aren't capable of this in your relationship also.

 

The reality is that no matter how open you're prepared to be, no matter how much you're willing to explore emotions, different ways of coping and different ways of thinking, if your partner isn't willing to do this as they're too hostile and angry to realise that the reason they're hostile and angry is because they don't feel significant or heard, you can't get anywhere. The only thing you'll keep coming up against is that hostility and anger if they can't move past it.

 

You might predict that I would advise you to listen to your feelings, if you want to leave just leave - your wellbeing is too important, and if you're to have any form of constructive conversation it can't be in a hostile environment. If it's a possibility I would advise you to go if you can - treat yourself to actually feeling important to you despite anything going on around you.

 

As conversation is so difficult, with a little time you might find writing to her more effective than speaking directly to her - you communicate well and this way it might be easier to set the tone and speak from the heart rather than have to deal with trying to talk her down from her aggressive stance.

 

It's not safe emotionally for you to open your heart to a person who is intent on attacking you, remember that - always honour and follow through on how you feel and you won't go far wrong.

 

I hope you find somewhere else to go for now and get some downtime, space and emotional relief -any way to express yourself will help too, so any time you get to write, paint, do sport, anything that makes you feel release and relief will help so do take of yourself.

 

Remember everything is transient, one step at a time.

[Purusha]

Ps.. apologies for the back to back posting but I wanted to say also, that the advice that I gave you on trying to connect with your wife and to understand her needs and motivations was purely to open dialogue for that if it was possible.

 

This does not, in any way, mean that she has no responsiblity for also seeing you - as I was saying that men communicate love through doing things, contributing more practically, even something as simple as opening a door for a women has been a transmission of this type of communication and is partly why it's been a part of tradition for so long (just as an example).

 

Just as it's important to understand your wife, she has equal responsibility in understanding you - don't imagine for one second that one person has more value than the other, it's just important to understand the different styles - so no, this is not all your fault and all of your responsibility, it's a partnership not a transaction.

 

If your wife is incapable of understanding your style, who you are, seeing and hearing you and is unwilling to do this from a place of openness, gentility and honesty, you are at an impass. These things can be worked on to get there if trust is damaged, but it requires mutual understanding, willingness and an ability to see behind your own defences to your own vulnerability - if this is not there you must firstly and only look after yourself, your heart and your boundaries.

 

The only way out of this when your partner is in this kind of cyclical behaviour is to move up and out of it to a place of greater ease and peace, go towards what feels better, with more ease, more soft and gentle, and away from anything that feels claustrophobic, closed in, fearful and isolated.

 

I just wanted to clarify that as reading back through your post I could see the misunderstanding and disparity in thinking this was all about you and what you had not understood - there is dual responsibility here, the measure of love is not given by how much you can give, how much you can sacrifice, how much you can please or satisfy your partner regardless of the cost to yourself - it's in understanding, the willingness to learn and be curious, co-operation, support, openness, safety in vulnerability, and trust that you have each other's best interests at heart no matter what direction life takes - I could name more but you get the idea.

 

That's some of my definitions and you probably have your own that you can think about, and at least if you can do that you know what direction you want to head towards in your life.

[aroud]

Thank you for the words of support. Today I forced the issue in terms of having a heart to heart, after our morning was a total disaster.

 

I was being pressured into explaining what happened to "all the money" as she puts it. Remember it's me that "earns so much". Anyway, every time she has asked me that in the past I've explained and even shown her bank statements, transactions, drawn up graphs, bar charts, written summary emails to her. And it's a huge effort, so I said firstly I can explain and show you if you want. But I was getting visibly stressed as last night and this morning it has been a lonely experience and being in this shattered marriage is painful and upsetting.

 

After she asked me the same question three times with the same answer, and me getting stressed with the questioning and knowing how she sees me in terms of money (earns so much) - she snapped at me and said why can't you be a man and answer the question - stop acting like a baby. Unfortunately my wife comes out with this line when she wants to hurt me, and I find the comment incredibly insulting. As if she knows what a man is or should be? The comments are designed to hurt, and I repeatedly tell myself I'm not going to resort to insults. However she has a history of getting abusive in an argument, and it's difficult to deal with.

 

So upon hearing this I told her that I was going to borrow money, give her what she needs to get through the month, and and move out because I can't stand this anymore.

 

The next 30 minutes are a bit of a blur, but concluded with her saying that she can't live in a half way house and that if I do that, she would see us as splitting up. Now I didn't expect this, and said I needed to go for a walk. Basically it was that moment where the next move could end it, and I was not ready to end it there an then.

 

After coming back from a walk, and considering my financial options to fund renting, I decided that I'm not doing anything until we have an actual heart to heart. It's not great timing for my wife all this - she's got prep to do for her job and needs to get that done today, plus tomorrow she's exploring some freelance job options, which means she's taking the money side of things seriously.

 

So I forced the issue on the heart to heart, and approached it calmly and slowly. I wish I had a transcript, because there was a lot there - but not any solutions. It was more about us saying how things made us feel these past few months. The tales of neglect were there from both of us. We both agree that our marriage and relationship revealed itself to be ineffective in a bad situation. We also both agree that we have some compatability issues that have been around for a long time. We basically agreed on a lot about what was wrong with our marriage.

 

The good thing I take from this is that the ice has been broken, and it's not taboo to talk about how badly things have gone, and how we've both gone into a more self-reliant mode. It also allowed me to explain to her that I was not angry with her, and that I know she did everything she could to help me, and that she did was she needed to do in order to survive. She was upset and so was I. Both of us cried.

 

There are times when we have these big chats that there isn't that much eye contact. I remember last year I told her I was upset that she didn't look me in the eyes when she said her vows and she brought this up again - saying I was right - she did not look me in the eyes and she does not know why. She said she had withdrawn so far into herself that she doesn't know if she can reverse it, and although I didn't say it, privately I feel that way too.

 

Neither of us want to continue flogging a dead horse. I explained how our dysfunctional marriage and this toxic environment placed a risk on my job and our rent getting paid. She understands that, and was upset when she considered what she was going to tell other people about what is going on. It is heartbreaking, and I have had so many heartbreaking moments these past few days - I'm sure we both have.

 

The most upsetting part for me where I did crumble a bit was when I told her that I didn't want to remember our marriage as something awful, because everything before the last 6 months I remembered as something beautiful.

 

I told her about not wanting to be this weak version of me, and that recently I found the real me again.

 

I called her out on the fact that she checked out of the marriage a few months ago before going on holiday. That didn't get contested. Basically she's been unhappy with the marriage for a few months longer than me by virtue of me having to wait until this job business concluded before I had any brain available.

 

So I abandoned my plan to move out tonight, as it doesn't feel right to do so on the back of our heart to heart. She knows how important it is for me to maintain a clear mind and concentrate not losing this new job, and she knows what I would do to defend that.

 

But the worst part of today was her antiquated man / baby comments. I honestly feel I'm with the wrong person and just because it's an 'argument' I don't see a justification for it. God I'm too old for this kind of thing. She knew what she was doing. I don't mean to nit pick here, but I am finding it so difficult to forgive given everything that has happened.

 

So we will see what happens next.

[aroud]

Ps.. apologies for the back to back posting but I wanted to say also, that the advice that I gave you on trying to connect with your wife and to understand her needs and motivations was purely to open dialogue for that if it was possible.

 

This does not, in any way, mean that she has no responsiblity for also seeing you - as I was saying that men communicate love through doing things, contributing more practically, even something as simple as opening a door for a women has been a transmission of this type of communication and is partly why it's been a part of tradition for so long (just as an example).

 

Just as it's important to understand your wife, she has equal responsibility in understanding you - don't imagine for one second that one person has more value than the other, it's just important to understand the different styles - so no, this is not all your fault and all of your responsibility, it's a partnership not a transaction.

 

Hey it's okay and I really appreciated the help, and didn't think you were being one-sided at all.

 

If your wife is incapable of understanding your style, who you are, seeing and hearing you and is unwilling to do this from a place of openness, gentility and honesty, you are at an impass. These things can be worked on to get there if trust is damaged, but it requires mutual understanding, willingness and an ability to see behind your own defences to your own vulnerability - if this is not there you must firstly and only look after yourself, your heart and your boundaries.

 

The only way out of this when your partner is in this kind of cyclical behaviour is to move up and out of it to a place of greater ease and peace, go towards what feels better, with more ease, more soft and gentle, and away from anything that feels claustrophobic, closed in, fearful and isolated.

 

I just wanted to clarify that as reading back through your post I could see the misunderstanding and disparity in thinking this was all about you and what you had not understood - there is dual responsibility here, the measure of love is not given by how much you can give, how much you can sacrifice, how much you can please or satisfy your partner regardless of the cost to yourself - it's in understanding, the willingness to learn and be curious, co-operation, support, openness, safety in vulnerability, and trust that you have each other's best interests at heart no matter what direction life takes - I could name more but you get the idea.

 

That's some of my definitions and you probably have your own that you can think about, and at least if you can do that you know what direction you want to head towards in your life.

 

Thank you and I have done a lot of thinking about what I want to do in life. Today I didn't even get round to mentioning my health scare, or how all I want now is to reduce stress. I'm hoping that after the heart to heart we can make some progress, but I'm feeling better for not being compelled to water down what I really think. It's better for her too as we're dealing with reality.

[Wiseman2]

Communicating through an attorney about finances would be a tremendous help.

[aroud]

Communicating through an attorney about finances would be a tremendous help.

 

I'm looking into getting a solicitor to advise me on how the financial side would work. I will need a couple of months to save the money to pay for it though.

 

We've got a house which we 50% own which is rented out to tenants, so I'm guessing this would simply be sold and proceeds split. Apart from that neither of us have savings of cash apart from what's in our account right now which is hardly anything. It's not a great situation.

[Purusha]

Hi around,

 

Even though things have been traumatic, it's great that you've both been able to get through the anger to the hurt underneath - at least from this point you can have real conversations, instead of hiding in defence at attack strategies.

 

Anger does need to be expressed to get through it so I'm really glad this happened for both of you.

 

I don't think you're nit picking by any means being resentful that she insults you the way that she does, however resentment only takes place when we don't open up about the fact that we're hurt and set a boundary, ie, saying that you find that comment hurtful, derogatory and insulting and indicating that the conversation will end/you will leave/some other boundary if you're insulted like that. This will make you feel stronger if you define what you will and won't do, what you like or don't like etc.

 

I hope that your heart to heart goes productively and gives you a direction - keep following your feelings, you're doing a great job so far imo!

[aroud]

Hi around,

 

Even though things have been traumatic, it's great that you've both been able to get through the anger to the hurt underneath - at least from this point you can have real conversations, instead of hiding in defence at attack strategies.

 

Anger does need to be expressed to get through it so I'm really glad this happened for both of you.

 

I don't think you're nit picking by any means being resentful that she insults you the way that she does, however resentment only takes place when we don't open up about the fact that we're hurt and set a boundary, ie, saying that you find that comment hurtful, derogatory and insulting and indicating that the conversation will end/you will leave/some other boundary if you're insulted like that. This will make you feel stronger if you define what you will and won't do, what you like or don't like etc.

 

I hope that your heart to heart goes productively and gives you a direction - keep following your feelings, you're doing a great job so far imo!

 

Hey thanks for this. It makes sense what you say about boundaries, although I think I've done that a bit late in the day.

 

So yesterday evening my wife asked me if I was still going to move out, and I said no. She sort of rolled her eyes in an amused way, which was odd because there's nothing very funny about any of this. Anyway I explained that we'd had a chat to clear the air and things were calmer, so no need to move out.

 

However, things are only bearable, and I'm not sure how much longer this can go on.

 

I have to be honest, in absolutely typical fashion, as she's done this so many times before important events that require a good nights sleep before hand, at 11pm on Sunday literally when the lights go out, my wife tried to start the conversation about us and what we're going to do.

 

I guess in her mind it's a good idea. Broaching heavy subjects just when we're looking to get to sleep. Maybe she thinks this is fertile ground for solving problems. I cannot understand it. But after this happening so many times I said to myself, I will need to move out next week. It is so frustrating because there is no moderation process going on it - it's just what the hell it's 11pm and we start our new jobs tomorrow but who cares lets talk about this now.

 

In days gone by I might have tried to have the conversation, but I said look now is the worst time possible so let's concentrate on getting our first day at work under our belts.

 

Lastnight over dinner I tried to just have a conversation about something and she said sorry I'm not interested I would rather talk about people and emotional connections. We agreed that this weekend we would have a talk as my wife wants to know what my thoughts are about kids (And she said she feels sometimes I don't say things because I don't want to hurt her feelings - which is correct in a way). I'm a million miles away from kids in my head but honestly need my mind to be clear and on point in my first week in this new job. I know this sounds selfish but if everything does go wrong between us this job is something I need to be going well.

 

My wife is working hard at her new job, and credit to her in this situation she's still getting on with the things we normally do during the week. We share chores and responsibilities, and that's continuing. But I know that for her, just as for me, there is this nagging feeling, and although we do cuddle a bit on the sofa watching TV, there is no physical spark and no sex. She may want me to make a move of some kind, but I don't feel like I can right now.

 

So the job is going okay and hopefully we can make it to the end of the week without anything flaring up. However, I just don't know how this chat is going to go on the weekend. Part of me is saying just end it - there's no future, you don't want children with her, maybe you don't want them at all anymore. And also our relationship doesn't work. I don't feel any real love anymore, just tokenism. Just the minimum. Whilst I think it's sad that I've not shown any physical affection - not even kisses, nor has she. She doesn't seem to have any feeling like that left, and to be honest it's been like that for 3 months. She switched 3 months ago, I switched about 3 weeks ago. We're out of sync, but the facts are the same. Neither of us are into it anymore.

 

If I move out I'm going to forfeit 15% of my wage every month, and I'm wondering if I should just bite the bullet on that one. The last two nights my sleep has not been great, and the additional stress of being in this environment absolutely is making work harder. It always did. I've struggled to find time even to give this much thought along with work this week, so I'm literally grabbing a few minutes now.

 

I can't sense any hope for us and it feels like we're heading for the inevitable. At my age I just don't have time to waste. I'm coming up to 40 and feel like I've got to contend with the temptation to fall into regret and bitterness, when what I should be doing is looking forward and feeling good about the good things.

 

Anyone reading this I guess I can hear you saying just end it, but it's so hard to contemplate. I think it would be heartbreaking but how can it be that bad when both of us look like we're resigned ourselves anyway? I think I'm just venting a bit here, trying to work out what to do. The confusion and pangs of heartbreak and regret are a constant backdrop and I hate this so much.

[Lester]

"Part of me is saying just end it - there's no future,"

- A few weeks, and a thousand words back, you said: "...no I don't want to be married to her anymore."

 

Have you changed your mind?