Great love story with a terrible ending....Is there any hope? Warning: long!

[rand100417]

Hi everyone. I am new to this forum and I have never posted in something like this before, in all 5(!) years of this ongoing mess with my ex. Here is the story .

 

I am 28 (soon 29) and he is 32.

 

My exBF and I were friends since high school. We would go to concerts together. We wrote each other letters after high school, maybe a couple times a year, to update each other on our endeavors. He did ROTC and went on to be an army captain, and I went on to do well in college: I studied abroad, I learned another language, and came back to the states. We were not at all on each other's minds, but just fond of each other from a distance purely platonically. He referred to me as his O.F.F. - Only Female Friend. When he was deployed as a 1LT (first lieutenant) in Iraq, I happened to be in between semesters. We started talking online more and more, first through Facebook letters, then through gchat. Then he said, "go buy a webcam!" ...And it was OVER. Starting on Valentine's day 2009, he asked me officially to be his girlfriend. For six months, until he arrived, we talked as much as we could through Skype. I would send him care packages with ramen and homemade cookies, and I found myself almost sick with worry when he would go out on an IED mission. We fell in love with each other. His sergeant that he roomed with joked that it was all over for him...that he was probably going to marry me. He/we decided (he would email me these cute power point presentations about our plans) that I would move to Germany to be with him when his tour of duty in Iraq ended that summer. It was extremely nerve wracking meeting him at the airport for the first time, because although I had seen him years prior and and on the webcam, I hadn't seen him in person for years at that point. But he stepped out of the arrivals area and again - it was over. Totally in love.

 

We both agree that this was the happiest time in our lives - dating and living in Europe and then Missouri for about 2.5 years, through long distance. We made it work despite long distance, we had so much fun together traveling, reading, watching movies, cooking and eating, and we were supportive of each other. We talked about anything and everything and we really were each other's best friends. Absolutely. But there were issues. I was 22, he was 25. We were immature - I would get super worried about him (he has a danger loving streak) and may have been not as supportive as I should have of some of his dreams, such as to go to sapper school and to get a motorcycle. I felt that I ought to be entitled to not have to worry about him after his army days as much as I did when he was deployed, so that caused fights. Also, my ex has an unusual personality. He was slightly narcissistic to begin with, and sometimes he would say or do things that were beyond belief insensitive to others (not only me), even socially awkward and offensive. However, he was often not aware of these things. Don't get me wrong, he's had lasting friendships with emotionally intelligent, wonderful people, he loves his family and friends. He is not personality disordered. Sometimes I would nudge him to consider other perspectives or be a little more aware, and he took and appreciated the feedback. In hindsight, I realized that we balanced each other out. He was going to propose after he officially got out of the army, and then the plan was for him to go to medical school. Oh, and we had mutual friends, that we both loved and loved us, that came to visit us, etc.

 

Now here's where the nosedive begins.

 

In 2012 I was 24/25 and I had basically been an army wifey to him, living long distance, and being back at home in NYC, I felt the need to "grow". I am an only child of divorced parents who were older when they had me and around this time I felt an almost pathological loneliness. I started to play and get very serious about music, I had nannying jobs, and I was still doing pre-requisites for grad school, but for the first time in my life I felt like I was getting tons of male attention. I think there was a combo of me being actually angry at him for doing some insensitive things during our relationship(flirting with some girl, saying he was thinking of going to Kuwait for a whole year after I had been dying for him to be out of the army, him not taking me being sick seriously and not taking me to the hospital, him purposely excluding me from a ski trip, a concert, etc.) He certainly was and still is immature in some very big ways and even when he was was crazy about me he did not treat me super well sometimes. He has this addiction to attention and a need to be dominant. He would often turn things into a power struggle. Anyway, I was too immature to be able to know what exactly the problem was so that I could fix it, or at the very least articulate it. I just knew something was off. I didn't know what part of it was him, what part was purely my responsibility, and what was circumstance. So I asked for a break, but I didn't want to break up. This was the beginning of the end. This is where is gets messy, but also boring, because it's just one bad thing after another:

 

So for about a year he would fly to NY when he could to try to win me back, then he moved to Brooklyn when he got out of the army, but we would fight over NONSENSE. We were both s to each other. I was so angry at him for so many reasons and it's like the anger and drama fed on itself. I truly hurt him a lot during this period I think, especially because he had had some trouble with the army (nothing truly dishonorable, he just broke some rules so that he could study for the MCAT, but the army almost got him in big trouble for this.) and I was not supportive, I was out doing my thing. At this point other people had gotten involved - I had slept with someone and he had found out (we were officially broken up), he had slept with women and I had found out. We should have just BROKEN UP because we did so much damage to the relationship. Neither of us I think wanted to lose each other in our lives but the dynamic just got totally soured from here on out.

Here's the thing - at some point, I think in late 2013, after I had been a total to him for long enough or something, and I think when HE started to pull away, I realized - what have I done??? I started to reread letters and realized I had hurt him so badly. I missed him terribly and I knew the relationship was going nowhere. But the second the script was flipped, it was ME who became the pursuer and he became the distancer. This was basically the story up until this most recent breakup, the permanent one.

 

For the past several years, 2013-2016 - yes, folks, three years - we were not, consistently, officially boyfriend and girlfriend. It became a shadow, a shell of the relationship we used to have. Nothing like it. I saw that the dynamic was totally screwed up so I started seeing a therapist for myself and my own growth, even managed to bring him in even a few times (the therapist is both an individual and couples therapist). My ex would not, at this point, commit to ANYTHING with me - not therapy, not plans. It was bad, but again, it was complicated. He would still call me cute names, we would still be able to laugh a lot together. We still talked, but I almost always called first. I had to beg him to stay over an extra night when one of my friends died (but actually this friend was a guy that I had hooked up with when we were broken up, so come to think of it maybe that's why he was being a real jerk about it. I think he knew that, too, but I'm not sure.) He took his family to a classical music concert I had told him about but he didn't bring me. He went on a motorcycle trip by himself across the states in spite of my Jewish grandmother pleas to please not...but he would update me and his sister in a group chat. So he respected that I would worry about him.

Things got further complicated when his medical school started (he is now in his 3rd year) and I got into grad school. He moved to Jersey. So we would have had to one again navigate long distance, but that was a joke - the relationship was in shambles. He would verbally abuse me, put me down, say I wasn't independent enough, just be extremely unkind, refuse to take me seriously. My friends who previously loved him for me changed their opinion. My mother, who had always been a huge fan of him, started to despise him. I was shocked at how cold he was at times. But I could also dish it out too, I guess, but from reading relationship books and therapy books, I started to try to fight in a more productive way.

 

Cut until now - He broke up with me for about the 10th time in November as I was having a really rough time with school (I was also having a terrible time because this relationship had consumed me and basically was killing me)....I had had enough of this and in order for ME to close the door, finally, I started dating this Ukrainian guy shortly thereafter and I got MARRIED to the Ukrainian in April 2016. I am not in love with the Ukrainian, but he is a handsome and hard working guy that has provided me with some much needed stability. Before I got married I drove to my ex's place and told him I was going to get married and that this isn't what I wanted but I'm 28 and this has been going on forever, I wanted him to get his act together, and together, with me, stop this nonsense and enter the next phase of adult life with me. That I wanted us to get rid of bad habits and learn how to be a team. The day of my wedding he sent me a text that said, "I think I can work on this with you in the not so distant future, just wait for me to finish boards." I went ahead with the wedding feeling like a suicide bomber. Yes - this was a bad decision. But it only attests to the fact that I felt completely out of control, completely disrespected, and I felt like I needed to follow through with something and not revolve, once again, on something that he had not fully committed to. I knew going into the marriage that I could easily get a cheap and uncomplicated divorce. In my mind, I had thought, "if I can't make it work with (my ex), then what the hell is marriage anyway?" I now realize that my ex had narcissistic tendencies, and I had almost borderline tendencies. I mean, NOT personality disorders, but somewhere on the spectrum. And the more damage we did to each other, the further polarized we got. The impulsive decision to get married I think has something to do with this.

 

Anyway, shortly after I got married - like, ridiculously shortly - I understood that I had married an ACTUAL narcissist, like the kind of people that they warn you about who will love bomb you and stick to you when you are vulnerable. But I am smarter than my Ukrainian husband and realized what was going on quickly, so he never had the chance to traumatize me, thank god. I am filing officially for divorce in October. I honestly don't really care about that relationship...it was a rebound. Go ahead, judge me, it's cool, I'm judging myself.

 

Meanwhile, in April I sent ALL these books to my ex about relationships and healing from trauma through Amazon, and a care package like the good old days while he studied for boards. I went out to his place twice in May, and the last time I was there it ended in a huge fight because I wanted to leave a suitcase of my stuff there, since i Had moved out of my husbands apartment, and the plan was to get cracking on relationship healing anyway. I ended up hitting him and he pushed me and then he hatef***d me which is extremely degrading. In June, he called me to tell me he had taken his boards, and had dumped all the books off at his sister's, and then he never wanted to see me again. I was devastated but not surprised. Then, a few weeks after THAT, I started reading a book called, "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft, an expert on emotional abuse. Turns out, my ex always had certain beliefs and attitudes that led to semi-abusive behavior even when the relationship was good, that had blossomed into full-blown, emotional abuse toward me when the relationship turned south. Naturally this abusive behavior made reconciliation IMPOSSIBLE. I'm not blaming it all on him, but that had been the story the past couple of years. So I called him to tell him he had to meet with me ONE last time and this was the last thing I'll ever do for the relationship. He finally agreed, I had to cancel a job to fit HIS schedule, but we sat down for about three hours and I read to him excerpts from this book which basically described, word for word, things that he's been doing for the past several years: fault finding, accusing me of things that I wasn't doing, criticizing, verbally demeaning, not taking responsibility for his feelings and reactions, not apologizing, being selfish, not letting me influence him, not listening, yelling and being intimidating, and lastly, silencing, invalidating me and abandoning me. I told him never to call me again until he was ready to do some serious work. We hugged and I left. He said what I did was mature and brave ( I think in an earnest attempt to counteract all the abuse that we, after having read the book, both know knew he inflicted on me). I felt, kind of, like I had gotten some of my dignity back.

 

...

 

This was like a first marriage. The more time passes, the better I feel about myself, the more clarity I have, the more I am able to recognize that I did not set boundaries well enough, that no relationship is worth losing your self esteem, self love. But I am also able to see the aspects I was responsible for. For example, I took adderall to help during school and I did not even let myself acknowledge that that may have played a role in the intensity of our fights, in my inability to disengage. This is just one example. I also realize that I had codependent tendencies, unresolved issues from my family of origin, and a fear of being alone. I am confronting all of those problems on my own now. I right now am doing the growth that will allow me to move on with or without my ex-boyfriend. However, every day, I miss him. I simply love this man. There is literally nothing I can do about this, I've tried. and I while i HATE what the relationship became, in my heart of hearts, I believe that if he were to really do the work, the relationship could be an entirely different, and better one. I want to marry him. I want to have a family with him and live the rest of my life with him. But he really has so much work to do, and I have no idea if he will do it. His attitude was shockingly devaluing of me and it's as if he fault found with me in order to avoid the serious work he would have to do on himself. He even said at the end, "you're not even good at being submissive! And you never put the cap back on the toothpaste!" I mean....ugh.

 

Do you think there is any chance of the space and time and no contact working magic? The most we've ever gone without talking is maybe 4-5 months, I would always break no contact, I pursued the crap out of him the past couple years, trying to convince him to do relationship work.

 

Does it sound like I'm in love with a memory? Is it possible that love can really be destroyed? I only got better looking with age (I lost weight, just look better in general) and we never really had a problem with sex. is there anything I can do (or not do) that would be optimal for the chance of having on of those amazing reconciliations where it really works the second time around and does not resemble the badness of the first time around? My mom and friends say that they have never seen a person put as much effort into a relationship as I have into this one. Does anyone have an experience like this at all?

 

Sending love to all through the internet.

[Wiseman2]

It sounds like you were incompatible on so many levels and the distance and divergent goals, lifestyles,etc keep it form ever really materializing or leading to any real commitment.

 

Hopefully your rebound marriage will be annulled/dissolved shortly without much ado...but contacting this ex seems again, like rebounding.

 

It's doubtful buying and sending him self help books is useful or welcomed.

He went on a motorcycle trip by himself across the states in spite of my Jewish grandmother pleas to please not.- He broke up with me for about the 10th time in November. I started dating this Ukrainian guy shortly thereafter and I got MARRIED

[rand100417]

This is why I am so dumbfounded and angry - we are incompatible simply because he won't compromise on ANYTHING and refuses to grow up. Not because of goals or distance. Lifestyle....maybe, because recently he's been doing way too many drugs, going to EDM parties and seems to live like a college student even though he is 32. It's as if when he was in the army, we had a grown-up lifestyle, and since returning to civilian life he has regressed somewhat.

 

We both want families, we have the same sense of humor, we are going into related professions: we even had anatomy at the same time and dissected a body together to study one weekend. I eventually gave in with the motorcycle and even rode on one myself with someone else at some point, to get used to it, but when I asked him to wear safety gear and let me know when he was riding he said I was controlling. He started going to EDM parties and doing molly in his spare time, which I actually think may play some kind of role. Often we would try to do stuff together that we do both like separately - EDM parties, traveling, concerts... but he refused, or he would be mean, and it would ruin the time we had together, making it seem like we are incompatible.

 

What I'm trying to say is, it was incompatible only because he turned everything into a power struggle, not necessarily bc goals or lifestyles were super different. We both love the gym, want to be healthy, want to prioritize friends and family but also have careers. We used to talk about our kids names, etc.

 

He got a girlfriend immediately after this last time around and his sister says since the gf is 25 she'll probably put up with his . I have no idea.

 

I guess it's hard for me to get peace of mind, even as I write this I just realize it's kind of a would be, could be situation, but he refuses to do the work. It's that simple. For whatever reason he has decided that it's not worth it, and I should be angry. I kept feeling this mistrust in the world. Like if he loved me so much and was willing to "fight" for me when I was a younger, more immature version of myself, then why wouldn't he , years later, not want to do simple repair work? When all the ingredients are there. Part of me thinks it's bc I made it was too easy for him and was available all the time and put up with horrible treatment.

[Wiseman2]

It sounds like he's enjoying his inner bad boy and wants his freedom and that does not lend itself to 'compromising'.

he won't compromise on ANYTHING and refuses to grow up.recently he's been doing way too many drugs, going to EDM parties

]

[LoveSoReal]

I know it's hard, but I think you need to put all that energy of analyzing your relationship and his mindset, into yourself. I think it's really great you are able to recognize and take responsibility for areas you contributed to this situation. I also think it's great you are trying hard to see things from his perspective as empathy is a beautiful trait. However I feel like you've done enough. It's time to let go.

 

All that energy put into trying to fix things and make things work really needs to be invested into yourself. It seems like there are some unhealthy attachment issues here. Dating is the last thing you should be doing. You are not emotionally and mentally ready for a new relationship. You are also not being fair to the potential new person because you are already expecting him to save you from this seemingly bottomless pit of rejection and hurt. And if by some miracle he is able to pull you out of it, you will have an unhealthy attachment to him because of it. It will be a vicious cycle that repeats itself NO MATTER WHO you end up being with.

 

The only way to stop this cycle is to pull yourself out of this pit. How to do it is by opening your eyes and seeing how beautiful you are and KNOWING that you deserve SO MUCH MORE than this. This CAN'T be your dream. To be with someone who puts you last and abuses you emotionally, physically and verbally. There is a man out there willing to love you and treat you the way you deserve to be treated. But men can only see you as you see yourself. If you want to find someone to adore you and cherish you, you need to cherish yourself first.

 

If you need someone to help heal the hole in your heart. Fall in love again with God. He will never leave you or forsake you. If you put your faith and love into Him, no matter who you end up dating or being with, you wont end up clinging or degrading yourself if conflicts should arise. Because you KNOW you wont ever be alone. This in turn actually makes you more attractive and lovable to a man. Because you value yourself and have boundaries. You also don't overreact and cause unnecessary drama. Men detest drama the way us women detest indifference.

 

On a more physical plane, find your own place and financially support yourself. You don't have to be super successful and make lots of money. You just need enough to make yourself happy and get by.

 

Once you become fulfilled emotionally, physically, and spiritually - all on your own, you will be so proud of yourself and love yourself. You will exude radiance and light. You will no longer be in a dark place of need. You will be in a place where you will actually be able to give. And when you find the one who is just as whole as you and worthy of YOU. That's where you will find TRUE LOVE.

 

This current life isn't you. You are meant for so SO much more...

[Ksol9]

When you were ready, he wasn't. Now that you're ready, he isn't. Sometimes all you really can do is take a step back. Let time do its work. I spent a lot of time doing the pursuing, exactly what you said you were doing. We took turns switching back and forth. At times he was the pursuing and sometimes it was me. The connection and the chemistry was definitely there and still is, but when there is a power struggle someone's going to lose. It sounds like there are certains things that you insist on changing. How long have you guys been no contact this time?

[rand100417]

To love so real: This post was like the best wake-up call/pleasant smack in the face ever. Thank you. The better I feel, the more connected I feel to the whole like, universe. And I don't feel as lonely even when I'm alone.

To ksol9: you're also right on point. Last time we had contact must have been around July 7th or so...couple days after July 4th for sure. I'm trying not to be attached to any outcomes, but as you know, I do harbor hope that we can eventually sync up. I sometimes get hit with this strong hunch that we really might. But I'm reluctant to even say that as I'm trying not to mistake hope for delusion.

 

I love him but he can go F*** himself. There are times when I think about what he did and I feel like dry heaving and punching something, then I remember that I also did some pretty bad stuff too, and then I stop caring because that's over and better things are ahead, and I have no idea what they are, but that's exciting. The most regrettable things we've done were hurting each other, but other than that, this break up was 1000% necessary. I've got all the ingredients to make a great life and I need to prove myself that I can do that on my own. And it's also a really big help that I'm going to start school again in a few days.

 

This forum is great. I should have done this a long time ago. You know how they say, fake it till you make it? A lot of break-up recovery is that. Before I would tell myself that he's not worth it if he never contacts me, but now I really like, feel it in my bones. I don't feel like it's this great loss...the door is shut in his face, and maybe it's even locked, but if he REALLY wanted to he could probably find the key somewhere. But I am pretty dead set on being good on my own for now, like lovesoreal was talking about.

 

And yeah, everyone has their bad sides, but I will NEVER settle for consistent nonsense ever again.

[rand100417]

Hmm, tried to edit the previous post, but it wouldn't let me for some reason, so just read this one instead!:

 

 

To love so real: This post was like the best wake-up call/pleasant smack in the face ever. Thank you. The better I feel, the more connected I feel to the whole like, universe. And I don't feel as lonely even when I'm alone.

To ksol9: you're also right on point. Last time we had contact must have been around July 7th or so...couple days after July 4th for sure. I'm trying not to be attached to any outcomes, but as you know, I do harbor hope that we can eventually sync up. I sometimes get hit with this strong hunch that we really might. But I'm reluctant to even say that as I'm trying not to mistake hope for delusion.

 

We were very attached, yes, but I don't think the attachment in and of itself was unhealthy...what was unhealthy was my inability to detach once the going got way, way too rough. But the healthier and more detached I become, I am reminded that this attachment - healthy or unhealthy- is certainly not the only thing that was there. We really loved each other. I'm not sure if that goes away entirely. It certainly gets obscured by anger but anger usually fades. But regardless, love doesn't make a relationship functional. Again, we never developed the everyday skills of navigating adult daily life together bc that requires too much compromise, boredom, sacrifice, etc. (from his POV, I think). . I mean, it can be argued that my soon-to-be-ex-husband and I had a very functional relationship, but it was transactional, and therefore unsatisfying on a deeper level. Even more unsatisfying after having been in love for reals with my exBF.

 

I think the only possible impetus for myexBF to grow up is if he loves me and realizes that he's lost me. If he doesn't realize this, he's either the biggest moron, or he really doesn't love me anymore. Either way, it's a win-win situation.

 

I love him but he can go F*** himself. There are times when I think about what he did and I feel like dry heaving and punching something, then I remember that I also did some pretty bad stuff too, and then I stop caring because that's over and better things are ahead, and I have no idea what they are, but that's exciting. The most regrettable things we've done were hurting each other, but other than that, this break up was 1000% necessary. I've got all the ingredients to make a great life and I need to prove myself that I can do that on my own. And it's also a really big help that I'm going to start school again in a few days.

 

This forum is great. I should have done this a long time ago. You know how they say, fake it till you make it? A lot of break-up recovery is that. Before I would tell myself that he's not worth it if he never contacts me, but now I really like, feel it in my bones. I don't feel like it's this great loss...the door is shut in his face, and maybe it's even locked, but if he REALLY wanted to he could probably find the key somewhere. But I am pretty dead set on being good on my own for now, like lovesoreal was talking about. I have my moments, but gradually I feel I am less all over the place, more calm and resolute.

 

And yeah, everyone has their bad sides, but I will NEVER settle for consistent nonsense ever again.

[rand100417]

holy s*** that is funny. that amerkuh/motorcycle GIF is the most appropriately used GIF ever. for so many reasons.

[LoveSoReal]

Anyabananya: you are NEVER truly alone. And I know you can do it. How I know is because I did it. I left a 10 year marriage as a housewife with a child. And I am the softiest softie ever. My coworkers used to tell me to grow a backbone because I hated confrontation and was a major pushover. There is such a thing as TOO nice and it's not a good thing. I was pretty much a doormat.

 

I can tell by your story you are so much more braver than I and once you're determined, nothing can stop you. You just need the right goal on the horizon.

 

There will be harder days than some. The WORST days were when I was bored out of my mind so I had plenty of time to just sit there and think. So I just kept busy.

 

Now that it has been almost a year, I can tell you for certain that I have grown and learned so much on this journey. It's like a light bulb went off in my head and things don't seem so catastrophic anymore.

 

I was single for a total of 2 months from ages 18-34. All long term. I can't say any relationship was a love of my life relationship, but I guess I didn't want to be alone more than anything.

 

It just got to a point where I felt that, this can't be my life... I wasn't getting any younger and the older you get your options for "the one" get slimmer and slimmer. Then when you're really old you have to just settle for companion.

 

Trust me, after my divorce, I wanted to just jump right into the next relationship.

 

Relationships were like my lifesaver in a pool. I was always clinging to each one for dear life. I was sure if I let go, I would truly die... but once I let go, not only did I not drown, but I even learned how to swim!

 

I took that time alone to work on myself. It was a HUGE eye opener. I had realized I had carried every single immature bad relationship habit with me from my teens into adulthood. I realize it's because after each relationship ended, I never gave myself the chance to reflect and look for all the areas I made mistakes so I could learn from them. Although yes it takes two, and my ex-husband also had his faults that contributed to our divorce. But in the end, it wasn't about him. You can't tell other people to fix their attitudes or behavior the way you can lead a horse to water but not make him drink. All you can do is take a deep look inside yourself. And take out and face all the things that made you the way you are. All the bad energy. All your fears. And face them one by one to get rid of them....

 

There is a light at the end of the tunnel... trust me.. if you need someone to talk to I'm here. But more importantly, what I think is the most important, find God again. That's when I truly turned the corner and felt completely happy and safe because I felt it deep in my soul that no matter what, I knew I was loved.

[LoveSoReal]

This:

 

Before I would tell myself that he's not worth it if he never contacts me, but now I really like, feel it in my bones. I don't feel like it's this great loss...

 

This is EXACTLY how I feel now. And you will feel this way about every guy because you know your worth. It's very empowering. It's not at all about expecting men to bend over backwards for you. Love is a two way street. It's about finding someone who loves and respects you, the same way you love and respect him. When people feel that way about each other, they don't ever try to hurt each other. They grow in love together.

[gibbsjoan85]

Just follow your heart.. Go with the one you love.

[rand100417]

Update....

 

We ran into eachother at a party at our mutual friends. I thought he wasn't going to be there. But he was.

 

He asked if I wanted to hang out and I did so we did. Long story short, we both miss eachother and love eachother. A lot of stuff was said, but I said you chose not to work on the relationship and date someone else and drop all the crap I gave you off with your sister. He apologized. We cuddled and stuff in my car.

 

It's really frustrating. This is so frustrating. He asked me to wait until CHRISTMAS time to work on the relationship. And here's the thing - he says he doesn't KNOW if I CAN MAKE THE CHANGES necessary to make the relationship work. I said I'm sure we both can if we actually try to do it according to any kind of therapist or book or whatever. That he's been avoiding it like crazy.

 

I am so angry at him and so frustrated and everytime I think about how much I've pursued I can't help but think it's so unfair. But the catch is, I've been on to something. I've always been RIGHT in some way.

 

I am sick of this. I started reading the book by Bonnie Weil, Make Up Don't Break Up, and it's pretty amazing. It describes this typical distancer pursuer dance. After all this time I know that that is what is going on.

 

On one hand, I know we could end up in a happy relationship. But I'm completely overwhelmed with thoughts of why he hasn't taken the necessary steps yet, it wouldn't be that hard, why is he so lazy? Why is he so stupid? It's completely overwhelming. I'm so frustrated. In his refusal to do any kind of work, he's hurt me too badly. He insulted me, he did everything wrong. I don't understand his insistance on distance thing. I don't get how he keeps insisting on waiting for more time to pass. I hate this, I feel like I have no control over the situation.

 

And then i think, OK, I mean, he asked for more months while he's trying to stay afloat in rotations at med school. I'm trying so hard to be understanding. And all I feel is abandoned...because he DOES love me and miss me, he admitted it.

 

I just wanted to let it all out....I mean, I'm trying to go back to not needing him but it's so hard after I see him. I miss him all the time. His solution would be...then we can't see eachother. But that's seriously so stupid.

The book by Bonnie Weil says to back off in order to get the changes you need permanently and that he doesn't always need to know how I feel. IM TRYING so hard not to take my OWN feelings so seriously. It's so hard. I'm trying to have some faith in not being connected and backing off even though it doesn't feel good at all to not have the connection with him (not talk/see eachother/etc.). It also takes a lot of effort to not be so angry at him. But I have to remember that I need to be less emotional and vulnerable and be more logical in order to ever get some improvement. ugh. anyone else ever do the bonnie weil book?

[rand100417]

by the way, he did not hurt me at all when we saw eachother. he owned a lot of his behavior. he apologized. he's getting it....

i need to go back to feeling how i did before we saw eachother.

[Wiseman2]

Sorry to hear this, but he's being honest that his training is demanding and he doesn't want a relationship right now..

 

Have you read the book "He's Just Not That Into You"? it may have some alternative insights.

He asked me to wait until CHRISTMAS time to work on the relationship. And here's the thing - he says he doesn't KNOW if I CAN MAKE THE CHANGES necessary to make the relationship work.

 

I know we could end up in a happy relationship. But I'm completely overwhelmed with thoughts of why he hasn't taken the necessary steps yet, it wouldn't be that hard, why is he so lazy? Why is he so stupid?

[rand100417]

He said he loves me and misses me. I don't think that book applies for this stage in the game.

[rand100417]

and yeah i have that book lol

[rand100417]

Ugh also my training is demanding. I'm becoming a physical therapist. He actually admitted when we saw eachother that he belitted my schooling before and that he trains with PTs in the hospital. He has realize that life is only going to get harder and if he doesn't prioritize our relationship it will end (for good) before it starts.

[rand100417]

He also said that he's scared of doing this merry go round and that is why he wants more time and space. And that I should respect it etc. because he does take marriage and kids seriously. I just think it's ridicuous at this point how it's always ME that has to respect HIS needs. Actually he said christmas time when I gave him the ultimatum that he cannot be let off the hook and he has to give me a time period.

 

I just wanted to kill him when he said he wasn't sure if I could make the changes necessary to make it work. I can't believe how insane it is that someone avoids learning fair fighting skills and then say theres too much conflict. It's nuts to me

[dirkdaring]

It's good that you got a timeframe to work with --- he said Christmas, so that's time you can continue focusing on yourself, what you want and expect from him, and whether or not this is worth it.

 

It's good that he owned some of his behavior and apologized for some of his mistakes. That doesn't mean that he'll do the work necessary to improve, but it shows a start that he's done some insightful thinking into his role in what happened.

 

back off in order to get the changes you need permanently and that he doesn't always need to know how I feel. IM TRYING so hard not to take my OWN feelings so seriously. It's so hard. I'm trying to have some faith in not being connected and backing off even though it doesn't feel good at all to not have the connection with him (not talk/see eachother/etc.). It also takes a lot of effort to not be so angry at him. But I have to remember that I need to be less emotional and vulnerable and be more logical in order to ever get some improvement. ugh.

 

I know EXACTLY how you feel. I had a great connection with my girl, then one day she gives me the "I need space" talk, that right now it's too much to juggle everything else in her life AND a relationship that she can't dedicate enough time and energy to being a quality partner. It's very hard, to fight those feelings of "does she REALLY just need space, or was that a nice way of trying to end it?" It's difficult to have that faith, and INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT to go from talking with someone all the time to losing that connection so immediately.

 

So many people, on here and everywhere, say how important it is to "back off" for those changes to happen. I'm with you --- it's hard, HARRRDDDD, but it seems to be exactly what's necessary. So, I'll continue to heal, grow, hurt, read, and hope to make it out with clarity and understanding, regardless of the outcome. You will too.

 

Wishing you nothing but the best. When you get lost in those thoughts, come right back to here and post.

[Wiseman2]

Stalling until Christmas is just another stop on the merry go round that will give him enough time to find more excuses if you haven't taken the hint to move on, which is what he is hoping.

 

Marriage and kids? At best this was an on/off relationship and aren't you still married to someone else?

 

what changes was he thinking you should make to make it work?

I should respect it etc. because he does take marriage and kids seriously. Actually he said christmas time when I gave him the ultimatum that he cannot be let off the hook and he has to give me a time period.

[rand100417]

I'm married officially but I moved out and am not in touch with that person. I live at home with my cousin and my mom while I'm in school....

 

This was not at best an off on relationship, at its best it was a regular relationship. And it's WORST it was an on off.

 

I think he does want distance bc his pea brain can't function under "pressure." But he does love and miss me but isn't sure whether we CAN have a functioning relationship or whether it was a snag in our 20s. I told him he'll never know if he doesn't give the relationship an actual chance because he treats me poorly when we get close. In a nutshell.

 

Wiseman I appreciate your pessimism. Are you a professional moderator on this forum? Anyways I did call him afterward and stood my ground. His tone changed. We'll see what happens.

 

 

Anyway we'll see.

[rand100417]

Changes he wants me to make: to not cry all the time. Put cap on toothpaste, not as "clingy" (although in my defense I'm really not that clingy, less than I was years ago), and be more chilled out.

 

I can't chill out conpletely if he won't chill out. We really need some help.

 

I asked him when I called the second time: "do you WANT to reconcile? Not do you think we can....do you WANT to?" He said maybe. Probably.

 

Time to shelve this bullsh** it's ridiculous. he's really making me want the distance too ya know

[abitbroken]

So, in a nutshell, you went to him to announce you were getting married to the Ukrainian guy mainly hoping he would say "Nooooo! Stop the wedding!!! Marry me instead" and he didn't. You wanted him to tell him that he would get his act together. I think that your husband was terribly used here. And the two of you are childish. I understand your pull towards this guy, but you had no established relationship in the beginning to justify being long distance. It was all what you built up inside your heads about eachother. I suggest you cut contact for good and forever. You also never loved your husband. You married to put an end to what was going on with the other guy. I feel very badly for him!

 

I would seriously consider counseling before you hurt another guy. Its really sad when you think you are in a relationship with the man you are not married to and are at a total disregard and lack of respect for the man you married, even if you went into the marriage for the wrong reasons. You should at least have the decency to drop contact with the guy you are obsesssing about and properly divorce or go to marriage counseling. And I would reimburse his family if they gave you wedding money. The whole thing was an intentional sham.

[abitbroken]

Changes he wants me to make: to not cry all the time. Put cap on toothpaste, not as "clingy" (although in my defense I'm really not that clingy, less than I was years ago), and be more chilled out.

 

I can't chill out conpletely if he won't chill out. We really need some help.

 

I asked him when I called the second time: "do you WANT to reconcile? Not do you think we can....do you WANT to?" He said maybe. Probably.

 

Time to shelve this bullsh** it's ridiculous. he's really making me want the distance too ya know

 

Yes, time to shelve it.

 

YOU (as in you singular) need help - STAT! Why are you even entertaining this man? He tells you that you are clingy, that you can't put the cap on the toothpaste, etc, and if you put the cap on the toothpaste and are less clingy, he will come up with something totally different that you have to do to change yourself and you are hanging on these words! It is like some sick game. He is who he is. If he is happy being that way - then whatever - but you can only control yourself. If you want to live the rest of your life in this long distance mess where when you are actually together its a bigger disaster and you hurt other people to jump through hoops with him - then I guess be my guest, but because you are here I assume you want something better.