Angry that my ex took my son to his mother's place without my consent today.

[TMifune]

Yet you still call her unreasonable, controling, and over-reacting. So which is it? Does she have a right to be upset and put her foot down or not?

 

Show me where I called her unreasonable. You are the only person in this thread who ever used the word unreasonable.

 

It's two separate issues.

 

She has every right be upset. She has every right to communicate that she finds what he did unacceptable. She has every right, depending on the terms of the visitation agreement to revisit whether trips like this will be permitted in the future. And even if the visitation agreement requires her to allow it she can return to court and try to get the visitation agreement altered.

 

But she also needs some encouragement that's it's alright for other people to care for her son too. She acknowledged repeatedly that she knows he's in good hands yet she has all this anxiety about not being there for him. That needs to be addressed. If it remains unaddressed it has potential to harm her relationship with her ex, his relationship with their son, her relationship with her son. It has the potential to harm her son in a deep way that I'm sure she wouldn't want.

 

What's seems to have happened in this thread is that you zeroed in on the legal rights issue while I zeroed in on the psychological issue. My failing to address the legal issue to your satisfaction seems to have driven you into some kind of frenzy to prove how wrong I am when we're not even really talking about the same thing.

[Moontiger]

I guess the words "controling" and "over-reacting" STRONLY imply that you feel she is unreasonable.

 

It's not right for her son to be taken for her without her knoweldge or consent, that is the bottom line. She does not need any encouragement that other people can take care of her son. She already lets an irresponsible man and his family have time with her son. She doesn't have unreasonable anxiety, she has the appropriate reaction to her son being kidnapped.

 

You seem to think that becaus the father felt he was doing right all should be forgiven with out acknowleding any of his wrong doing and placing on blame on the mother for DARING *shock* to want her child home when he was sick, communitcating that to the father, the father agreeing to hit, and thenhim going back on his word, and her being upset by that. The implication is that the mother is just another irrational woman who needs to pipe down and let the father do his thing.

 

I find it ridiculous that a child being kidnapped result is the mother being told her is controling.

[Moontiger]

Oh and now that you have been unsuccesful in getting me (a woman) to quiet down, I am "fenzied". Your opinion on women is pretty clear.

[TMifune]

I guess the words "controling" and "over-reacting" STRONLY imply that you feel she is unreasonable.

 

Just because you infer something doesn't mean I implied it or had any intent to imply i

 

It's not right for her son to be taken for her without her knoweldge or consent, that is the bottom line.

 

Who argued that it was?

 

I find it ridiculous that a child being kidnapped result is the mother being told her is controling.

 

I find it ridiculous that you misconstrue everything I say. I'd say your empathy for how she feels has blinded you to the point I'm trying to make.

[Moontiger]

Just because you infer something doesn't mean I implied it or had any intent to imply i

 

 

 

Who argued that it was?

 

 

 

I find it ridiculous that you misconstrue everything I say. I'd say your empathy for how she feels has blinded you to the point I'm trying to make.

 

 

I think you are unware of all that is implided in what you say. Calling someon "controling" and saying they "over-react" to their child being kidnapped is pretty ridiculous.

[TMifune]

Oh and now that you have been unsuccesful in getting me (a woman) to quiet down, I am "fenzied". Your opinion on women is pretty clear.

 

Seriously? Now you're going to play the victim? Oh surely I chose the word frenzied out of some deep sexist desire to insult and infuriate women. I used frenzied because you're coming at me with 2 posts for every one that I make. Is there any adjective I could have used there that wouldn't have made you throw out the sexist card?

 

I haven't done anything in this thread to make this about the gender divide accept once claim that the family court system is biased in favor of women. Why are you so desperate to make this a sexism thing?

[TMifune]

I think you are unware of all that is implided in what you say. Calling someon "controling" and saying they "over-react" to their child being kidnapped is pretty ridiculous.

 

No, as the reader you don't get to tell me what I "implied". All you get to do is infer, and no matter how many inferences you make, they don't mean anything at all about what I "implied".

 

What's seems to have happened in this thread is that you zeroed in on the legal rights issue while I zeroed in on the psychological issue. My failing to address the legal issue to your satisfaction seems to have driven you into some kind of frenzy to prove how wrong I am when we're not even really talking about the same thing.

 

I don't know how I can state this any more clearly. You're still arguing with me about the legal issue when I'm telling you that I'm talking about something else.

[Moontiger]

Seriously? Now you're going to play the victim? Oh surely I chose the word frenzied out of some deep sexist desire to insult and infuriate women. I used frenzied because you're coming at me with 2 posts for every one that I make. Is there any adjective I could have used there that wouldn't have made you throw out the sexist card?

 

I haven't done anything in this thread to make this about the gender divide accept once claim that the family court system is biased in favor of women. Why are you so desperate to make this a sexism thing?

 

Who's playing victim? You think women who tell fathers to not kidnap their children are "controling" and a woman who doesn't just be quiet when she tells you your wrong is "fenzied"

 

I'm simply stating how your thoughts are coming off. That you want a person who kidnaps a child to get sympathy and for us to see things from the kidnappers persepctive while telling the mother she should be more understanding. Yes your thougths on women are very clear.

[TMifune]

Who's playing victim? You think women who tell fathers to not kidnap their children are "controling" and a woman who doesn't just be quiet when she tells you your wrong is "fenzied"

 

I'm simply stating how your thoughts are coming off. That you want a person who kidnaps a child to get sympathy and for us to see things from the kidnappers persepctive while telling the mother she should be more understanding. Yes your thougths on women are very clear.

 

I engaged you in a conversation. When did I ever tell you to "just be quiet". I've continually engaged with you. That's the exact opposite of a message to "just be quiet".

[Moontiger]

I engaged you in a conversation. When did I ever tell you to "just be quiet". I've continually engaged with you. That's the exact opposite of a message to "just be quiet".

 

You mean your message saying you were "done" talking to me?

[Moontiger]

I'm done talking to you. You're making this a male / female issue and you're constantly and consistently misrepresenting what I said.

 

Yup. here it is. And when a woman doesn't tell you your right and be quiet she's misrepresenting you. You have called the OP controling and over-reacting multiple time and told her to see things from a kidnappers perspective. I will never agree with that.

[TMifune]

Yup. here it is. And when a woman doesn't tell you your right and be quiet she's misrepresenting you. You have called the OP controling and over-reacting multiple time and told her to see things from a kidnappers perspective. I will never agree with that.

 

We're talking about two separate things. You know that you just don't want to accept it, you want to 'win'.

 

I'm not telling you you're misrepresenting me because you don't agree with me. That doesn't bother me as much as you think it does. I'm telling you you're misrepresenting me because you are in fact misrepresenting me! You have inferred things, told me that I implied them when I didn't, and are generally telling me that everything I say isn't what I say it's what you believe I said.

[TMifune]

You mean your message saying you were "done" talking to me?

 

That was the moment I should have disengaged because it was pretty clear you were going to keep misrepresenting me, yes. I continued engaging. I didn't say "sit down and shut up" like you seem to think I did.

[Moontiger]

We're talking about two separate things. You know that you just don't want to accept it, you want to 'win'.

 

I'm not telling you you're misrepresenting me because you don't agree with me. That doesn't bother me as much as you think it does. I'm telling you you're misrepresenting me because you are in fact misrepresenting me! You have inferred things, told me that I implied them when I didn't, and are generally telling me that everything I say isn't what I say it's what you believe I said.

 

 

I'm misreresting you saying she is controling and over-reacting for object to her child being kidnapped and that she should see things from the kidnappers perspective? Telling someone they are over-reacting also means they are being unreasonable. So, yes, you did imly that.

[Moontiger]

That was the moment I should have disengaged because it was pretty clear you were going to keep misrepresenting me, yes. I continued engaging. I didn't say "sit down and shut up" like you seem to think I did.

 

NEver said you did. But your opinion on women is clear from your posts.

[TMifune]

I'm misreresting you saying she is controling and over-reacting for object to her child being kidnapped and that she should see things from the kidnappers perspective? Telling someone they are over-reacting also means they are being unreasonable. So, yes, you did imly that.

 

Do you really believe the end of this is going to result in any kind of agreement between us? I've attacked only your arguments and statements while you've repeatedly attacked my character.

[Moontiger]

Do you really believe the end of this is going to result in any kind of agreement between us? I've attacked only your arguments and statements while you've repeatedly attacked my character.

 

Your wrong, I've pointed out exactly what you have said about her and her reaction. But I guess it doesn't matter. Women are just irrational right?

[TMifune]

NEver said you did. But your opinion on women is clear from your posts.

 

I think you're projecting an awful lot of your own outside personal experience onto me.

[Moontiger]

I think you're projecting an awful lot of your own outside personal experience onto me.

 

That's nice. Thanks for that thought.

[TMifune]

Your wrong, I've pointed out exactly what you have said about her and her reaction. But I guess it doesn't matter. Women are just irrational right?

 

And I've told you repeatedly that we're talking about two separate things. If there was some way I could get you to set aside the empathy for the kidnapping thing maybe I could get you to see the other part, but I don't think you'll ever go off the attack long enough to consider anything but what you've already decided.

[Moontiger]

And I've told you repeatedly that we're talking about two separate things. If there was some way I could get you to set aside the empathy for the kidnapping thing maybe I could get you to see the other part, but I don't think you'll ever go off the attack long enough to consider anything but what you've already decided.

 

So you do think the kidnapper should get sympathy?

[TMifune]

That's nice. Thanks for that thought.

 

You're quite welc.....oh, that was sarcasm, wasn't it?

[TMifune]

So you do think the kidnapper should get sympathy?

 

Viewing things from a perspective that's less empathetic to person A wouldn't imply any kind of sympathy for person B.

[Moontiger]

Viewing things from a perspective that's less empathetic to person A wouldn't imply any kind of sympathy for person B.

 

A simply yes or no is all the question requires, should a father who kidnappes his child, who is sick, and in defiance of the courts and the verbal agreement he made with the legal gurdian get sympathy and everyone else stop being so "controling" and "over-reacting"?

[Batya33]

I have to say, we're married and have a son, everything is fine and I am quite sure that neither of us would ever take our son anywhere overnight or out at night without clearing it with the other parent first and we would never leave him with another adult without clearing it with the other spouse unless it was an emergency situation. It's just common sense, courtesy, and what is best for the child.