Difficult in-laws

[abitbroken]

Ok - these people are chaotic. You believe that you can gain their trust and create connections with them by being vulnerable or sharing your issues with the sister to help her. In that environment, it is not an emotional breakthrough, it is only something that they can later use to stab you. If it were a family of healthy people - different story. If it were healthy people and that ONE sister who was bipolar but the rest of the family was healthy and united - maybe different as well. My ex-in-laws were very dysfunctional with one sibling trying to boss the others, two siblings with behavorial issues - one mentally ill and the other just a big jerk, etc

 

 

This is the most troubling part for me:

 

We are not planning on getting married (at least not for a long while) as my partner does not like the idea of marriage - probably from all the destruction he has seen - but I would say we assume the relationship is permanent

 

When a man thinks this - you won't last forever. He won't commit to you. He will eventually sell you out when the pressure from the family gets so unbearable. It is DIFFERENT from a hippie dude who is anti-establishment and free living and doesn't believe in the whole government piece of paper but someday wants to meet a woman he can commit to for life in a hippie handfasting ceremony or buy an abandoned ashram with and make her his muse. But the whole "i have seen marriage fall apart" etc. - is troubling. If you had decided to never marry and then sought out casual relationships or a man who never wants to marry - fine - but you say that marriage is "at least not for awhile" implying that you really aren't someone who is opposed to marriage and may want her own family.

 

You are not responsible for the daughter's self esteem. And also, I think you should look up codependency. I am sorry that you are oprhaned, but instead of choosing a healthy family, you are inserting yourself into an unhealthy one and making yourself needed (trying to be the peacemaker, feeling the person solely responsible for the daughter's self esteem) so that they can't get rid of you rather than a healthy family that you choose and are valued in.

 

HOnestly, the sister is right, you are NOT family. You are living together because its easier, he wants you around, but doesn't want to commit to you. Also, do you know why he divorced his wife? If you have a decent relationship navigating the care of their daughter, have you been told what ended the marriage? I think this is important for you to know. I wouldn't be shocked if it was because of all of the outside forces and dysfunction.

 

Please go away with a friend for a few days or volunteer to be the one to go to a seminar out of town for work and take a breather from everyone for a few days to clear your head. That is what I would do. Its way too much drama. I was in an eerily similar situation - though the makeup of the family as far as genders and ages were different (no daughter, more siblings, etc.) and eventually my health suffered - physically and mentally.

[Iggles]

Please wrap your head around the fact that these people have been at this game since birth and they are really good and adept at it, and understand the internal dynamics way better than you. At the end of the day, they also seem to be loyal to each other and liable to close ranks against outsiders. So please, do yourself and them a huge favor and keep out of their issues and arguments. Instead focus on YOUR family - your bf, the little girl, your great relationship with the ex-wife. That's the family that matters.

 

When it comes to in-laws, think civil, polite, but ultimately arms length. It will save you a lot of grief and trouble.

 

Well said. OP would do well to take heed of your advice.

 

 

This is the most troubling part for me:

 

We are not planning on getting married (at least not for a long while) as my partner does not like the idea of marriage - probably from all the destruction he has seen - but I would say we assume the relationship is permanent

 

When a man thinks this - you won't last forever. He won't commit to you. He will eventually sell you out when the pressure from the family gets so unbearable. It is DIFFERENT from a hippie dude who is anti-establishment and free living and doesn't believe in the whole government piece of paper but someday wants to meet a woman he can commit to for life in a hippie handfasting ceremony or buy an abandoned ashram with and make her his muse. But the whole "i have seen marriage fall apart" etc. - is troubling. If you had decided to never marry and then sought out casual relationships or a man who never wants to marry - fine - but you say that marriage is "at least not for awhile" implying that you really aren't someone who is opposed to marriage and may want her own family.

 

This jumped out at me too. Excellent points.

 

OP, you explained not being married as something he wants since he has soured on marriage and thinks all relationships are doomed to fail. How you can feel secure that you're a permanent fixture in his life? A life partner? Someone he wants to build a family with, not just help to raise his child when she is around and someone to spend time with when she isn't?

 

His sentiment screams he inflexible about the level of commitment he is willing to offer you.

 

Honestly, the sister is right, you are NOT family. You are living together because its easier, he wants you around, but doesn't want to commit to you. Also, do you know why he divorced his wife? If you have a decent relationship navigating the care of their daughter, have you been told what ended the marriage? I think this is important for you to know. I wouldn't be shocked if it was because of all of the outside forces and dysfunction.

 

Yes, agreed. Until marriage long term significant others are in a gray area where despite having an established relationship and attending family events, they are still NOT part of the family. Honorary sister or brother-in-law status can be conferred, contingent on good behavior and not making drama BUT it can be revoked at the family's discretion.

 

OP, the fact that your SO's siblings are circling the wagons against you could very well lead to you being freezed out. You can go from attending all family events to being persona non-grata if the sisters make a big stink about not having you there.

 

Ultimately, unfair or not, the mom will not side with you. Your SO will feel pressure to leave you at home so he can spend time with his family. His daughter will want to keep going to family events to spend time with her cousins, aunts, uncles, and grandma.. If it becomes you versus the family, you will lose.

 

I get that you want to help mend fences and mediate, but it's not your place. All the good you have done will be for naught if a family feud breaks out targeting you as a backlash to your perceived interference.

[Mischa234]

Some very colourful responses here, which is great, I am a colourful person

 

I should reinforce that K is the only member of the family that dislikes me. Her son follows suit but warily, he has a lot of issues with his mother which I listened to (and tried to explain alternative ways of looking at the problem, i.e. stuck up for her) while I lived with him for 3 months and I believe this really bonded us and was the reason that K sought out friendship with me afterwards. Before the issues between his mother and I, he used to say "I love you" every time we ended a conversation or said goodbye. This is something he doesnt even say to his uncle (my partner)... He idolises my partner as the big brother/father figure he never had so I think on that front he is torn between his mother's opinion and my partner. I have never spoken a word to him that is negative about anyone.

 

I also have never had any hiccups with anyone else in the family. My partner's mother is very close to K and they talk daily, but other than this I have no reason to fear anyone else in the family. The normal sister and I have an unspoken agreement of friends-at-arms-length and that is going well, I have gained her kids trust which is hard for others to do... Wider members of the family who I barely know have all added me on Facebook, I never initiated any of this, I probably have 25 of his friends/family who have done so.

 

The family issues are between the two sisters K and bipolar, who have a huge history of instability and most if not all of the drama in the family extends from either one of them. I have been dragged into it over time, simply by being there and being a sounding board. I answer questions, I never initiate or probe, I am impartial for the most part and I never take sides. I believe it is this that has gained me respect from the wider family, because the fact is there is a lot of drama, and all of them will try to involve you and get you to side with them.

 

Now the main issue, and one which I couldn't have really foreseen, is that K definitely has some sort of undiagnosed mental/personality disorder. I have heard a few suggest this is Borderline Personality Disorder (what she attempted to frame me with). This is characterised by relationship instability whereby they will more or less love someone one day and then hate them the next for no decent reason. Hopefully this adds a little more depth to the issues.. yes she does hate me, but it is all part of their dysfunction and nothing to do with my actions as far as I am concerned.

 

I have not actually interfered all that much... If I have been caught in the middle of an argument (e.g.: on something I post on Facebook), I have mediated and asked the bipolar girl to be kinder. Otherwise, I have only ever talked to each sister one on one as an unbiased listener - and in all honesty I can't think of a conversation that wasn't started by them wanting me to take sides.

 

Also for anyone who has questioned my partner's integrity based on the fact he became a single father at an early age, do not worry, I did plenty of this myself. He split with his ex because she cheated on him numerous times. The mistakes that he made were unfortunate, and really not a huge statement of his character because he was just so young at the time.

They met just before his 21st birthday, both the same age... within six months she had pressured him to move in together. They took a holiday to Thailand and on the spur of the moment got married (again, something which she pushed for). Shortly after they were married, at about 9 months into the relationship, she fell pregnant.

At this point, my partner knew something was seriously wrong, and he felt that he had been played. Still, he stayed in the relationship another 2 years in order to father the child despite falling into a major depression. Eventually he discovered she had been cheating on him and soon after they broke up he was diagnosed with an STD that she had given him (dealt with way before I came into the picture, we were both tested before having sex).

 

The ex now is a really nice lady, I can see why he liked her because she is such a warm soul. She has grown up a lot from the breakdown of their relationship (as has my partner), she has raised a beautiful daughter and for that reason I could never fault her. I have nothing but respect for the way they have both handled the situation afterwards, and I refuse to judge. This has worked out wonderfully for all of us, custody, finances, most importantly a gorgeous, well-rounded little girl who is none the wiser.

 

My partner obviously had some trust issues after this, and honestly does not believe in marriage after what he experienced. He does hope to find a life partner, but he doesn't believe that marriage is the answer - in all honesty he thought this was just a religious ceremony and because he is atheist he concluded it is not for him. I have since educated him that marriage is a bit wider of a concept.

After the initial shock I felt that he is anti-marriage while I am a firm believer in it as a symbol of union/commitment, we discussed the deeper issues and found that we both have a similar view of relationships and similar desires for ourselves, making "the M word" an abstract topic of debate. I mean, what does marriage really mean to you? Can you "marry" someone without having a wedding? Can you "marry" someone based on an agreement between you or the length of your relationship (the law believes this is so, hence "common law marriage")?

 

I am typing a ridiculous amount here, but just as a final point...

 

I am mostly not that concerned about his family. It has been an issue around the holiday period (Summer holidays in Australia are December-February) which covers Christmas as well. The rest of the year will be basically a non-issue.

 

The rest of my life is near perfect. I am so happy - I am studying the degree I want, my partner and I are making leaps and bounds all the time and are in a good place recently, I love our Princess and our pet kitten, I have great relationships with those who I choose to maintain them with (friends, distant relatives). There is very little in my life that I could actually complain about. But yes, occasionally wish that others could experience the same sense of contentment that I do.

 

I think when my only concern is that others around me aren't as happy as I am, I am in a pretty good place.

[Mischa234]

My partner obviously had some trust issues after this, and honestly does not believe in marriage after what he experienced. He does hope to find a life partner, but he doesn't believe that marriage is the answer - in all honesty he thought this was just a religious ceremony and because he is atheist he concluded it is not for him. I have since educated him that marriage is a bit wider of a concept.

 

I should elaborate on this as I'm sure someone will pick at it - when I say "hope to find" I base this on conversations about what we believe about relationships. We haven't explicitly said we are life partners, mainly because we haven't actually decided whether we will get married eventually - he has considered it in order to give me what I want, and I have considered waiting it out until I know for sure that I want to be "married", and I haven't decided yet if it is imperative to me. Our main focus is on the health of our relationship, now and in the future. And in all honesty, that is a better place for us to be than "should we marry or not", because he is right in a sense - it doesn't matter if we are married, if the relationship isn't healthy and with a solid foundation, it won't last.

[chickadeedee]

You recently had a fight with him to the point you threatened to call the police. You should not be considering marriage at all at this point and should be delving into why you are having such bitter fights, and why you are afraid enough of him to threaten to call the police, as well as why you would consider it OK to think about marrying someone who scares you to that point. You need to leave off the amateur 'shrinking' of his relatives and look at the issues in your own relationship and consider getting some professional therapy/couples counseling to explore why your fights get so scary and also why you feel the need to control/shrink his relatives when that is really not your place at all.

 

Also be very careful about trying to put psychiatric labels on familly members who irritate you or you don't get along with. Only a licensed therapist or psychiatrist could diagnose her condition (if any) and you can do grave harm to your relationship with his family by trying to ostracize her and frame her as 'abnormal' with such a label. What you should be doing is being cautious and framing them as 'relatives i like and get along with' and 'relatives i don't like as much and don't get along with.' Labelling her as abnormal is a form of ostracism and criticism that you are not qualified/entitled to assign to her and will only strain family relationships.

[chickadeedee]

>>The whole time my partner keeps telling me it’s my fault for getting involved, because I can never keep quiet (which is true, I love to express my unwanted opinions lol) and I should have known not to talk to her again after our past issues. ..I felt fed up and wanted to step in and organise some family meeting to get them to start a process of reconciliation. I know my partner doesn’t want me getting involved, so I do it discreetly when I can get away with it or when he won’t see it… get in between the arguments and mediate.

 

This is exactly what you are doing wrong and shouldn't be doing at all. Very controlling and manipulative behavior. Your partner is expressing very clearly what he wants from you in terms of his family, and you are basically just running right over top of him and ignoring him and going underground trying to make yourself the center of attention and control. It's not 'discreet,' it's controlling and not respecting other people's boundaries or your place in the family. You are not a therapist and frankly even if you were it would be against ethics for you to try to 'treat' your own family members. So you need to really just butt out and work on ensuring your own relationship with your partner is open and honest and respectful and respect his boundaries. You're trampling all over them in a 'mother knows best' mode that is going to get you into trouble with not only his family but your own partner. You should never go underground violating a partner's wishes when it comes to his own family. That is a huge breach of trust and respect.

[Mischa234]

This argument was about 6 months ago. I can't be bothered going into it, but there were at the start of the relationship some extremely bad arguments we would have and over time they have dissipated into virtually nothing. I'm not afraid of him, I'm just a spiteful person sometimes and I was laying down boundaries using an empty threat. I'm not going to discuss this further, because honestly we're in a good place now and we got here without counselling.

 

I'm not diagnosing her, but she does have serious problems. Problems that are too dramatic and involved for me to bother relaying here, she tends to start drama with everyone in her family except my partner as he is neutral and withdrawn. The irony of the situation is that she was diagnosing me with something that their family believe she has. That's all hearsay, but it's relevant. I have never said this to anyone except my partner, who had little to say on the issue.

 

I have not tried to ostracize her nor have I given any indication that I have ever approached anyone in the family about her or with any label about her. I have also not tried to or implied that I want to get involved counselling his family. I remain as a neutral party when I am dragged into their issues. I did express that I would love to intervene or find a way that I could bring peace to them, though I had no intention of counselling them through their issues and was thinking more along the lines of trying to get a therapist involved. That's irrelevant, but I find your post ironic that you tell me to get counselling and not to do x and y things that I am supposedly doing wrong, because you are doing the very thing you have told me not to do... "put psychiatric labels on people who irritate you"... just think about that one if you want to earn any credibility in your replies.

[chickadeedee]

^^

well, now you're trying to control me and my replies too... lol

 

you asked people's opinions on this site, and you will get some you don't like. they're all food for thought.

 

i didn't put a psychiatric label on you... i said the behavior is controlling and manipulative if you are going against your partner's wishes and behind his back in terms of trying to control his family members and their interactions. And it is.

 

and suggesting professional counseling is far different than recommending yourself to be the family therapist...

[Seraphim]

Recommending some counseling is not placing a label, they're not the same at all.

 

You seem like a very bright girl. I think time though will bring you the realization that there is very little we control about other people. And that it's usually best to keep our oar out of it unless we want to end up totally dingbat crazy and have people hate us with a passion.

[Mischa234]

You're actually incorrect, but again I'll forgive that because you have limited information. My partner wants me not to get involved by doing what he does, which is literally: when someone asks him a question or says something he avoids eye contact, refuses to respond verbally and if he does respond verbally he literally says "I don't know" every time. Or grunts.

 

Now, when I'm dealing with a hypomanic 27 yr old bipolar girl in my own house having a meltdown in front of an attention-deprived 8 year old who I am responsible for, well, frankly, I just find it insulting for anyone to hold such an opinion that I am not to "get involved" and try to ease the drama and stop her fighting with her siblings so that I can take my attention away from instability and place it where it belongs. I can't blame you for not having had such experiences, but I can tell you that the way I responded I would do it all over again if the same situation occurred because the way her family treat her and manage her episodes is absolutely wrong.

 

Here is the reason I maintain my rights to do as I will: my partner puts me in those situations carelessly - he flew his sister in to stay with us, took me to the holiday house and let his sister drag me into her argument with her mother and turn on me, and he sat back and did nothing. He told his sister about our argument that day, knowing how she can be, and he saw what she was doing when she screenshotted him the messages and he let it happen. That to me was a huge breach of care, and my aunt and uncle who inevitably retrieved me from the wreckage reinforced this by asking why he keeps putting me in these situations with nutcases who are out for blood and don't care whose it is. He should have known better to be honest.

 

There's a certain point where he needs to take responsibility for that, and which he hasn't and has instead told me "not to get involved" which has a variety of meanings. One would tend to think that remaining impartial is similar to not getting involved, whereas in actual fact his real intention is that I keep my mouth shut and not make eye contact. Oh, and he told me that after the fact. This is why I care very little for his request that I don't "get involved". Its a little too late for that.

 

So yes, if there are arguments breaking out in front of me I will discreetly mediate and seeing as I have been thanked by others for doing this and gained respect for it, I maintain my right to freedom of speech. His ideals are a little unrealistic, and based on having known his family his entire life and what makes them tick. Me, an innocent bystander who has only ever tried to reinforce their relationships with each other by listening to their problems and reinforcing that each of them have good intentions and different points of views, somehow being in the wrong for having done this with irrational people and having been attacked. Do you not wonder how I came to be in those situations where his family would start to rely on me and open up to me? Yeah - my partner had a responsibility to me that he did not fulfil earlier on and I learned the hard way.

 

I don't hold this against him, but I also refuse to believe that I am in the wrong for playing the role of a low-key, impartial listener. Unfortunately for you to think that you would have to concede that he told me this a little too late in the picture and didnt involve himself where he should have to avoid me getting dragged into their dysfunctional patterns which he knew about way before I did.

[Mischa234]

^^

well, now you're trying to control me and my replies too... lol

 

you asked people's opinions on this site, and you will get some you don't like. they're all food for thought.

 

i didn't put a psychiatric label on you... i said the behavior is controlling and manipulative if you are going against your partner's wishes and behind his back in terms of trying to control his family members and their interactions. And it is.

 

and suggesting professional counseling is far different than recommending yourself to be the family therapist...

 

I fail to see how you can believe that telling someone they are contolling and manipulative is advice. I would have said they were harassment, but I guess that's my opinion.

 

I never did recommend myself to be the family therapist. Did you at any point read this or is it possible that you assumed it? I simply stated that I would like to see peace brought to them by intervening somehow, which could be either a direct intervention such as organising a dinner and requesting that those who have mentioned they are in favour of change sell their point to the others (and there are a few who have suggested that things need serious change), or could be indirect in having my partner try to resolve the issue between K and me/bipolar. I think you have assumed that I want to be their therapist and then attacked me for it.

 

Recommending some counseling is not placing a label, they're not the same at all.

 

You seem like a very bright girl. I think time though will bring you the realization that there is very little we control about other people. And that it's usually best to keep our oar out of it unless we want to end up totally dingbat crazy and have people hate us with a passion.

 

I know very well that you cannot control what others do. The most enlightening experience of this was when I said to K that I didnt want to argue with her and she literally took that as the trigger. It is ironic, and people act in unpredictable ways. However, you can influence people either directly or indirectly.

 

For example, when I see that the sisters are having an argument on social media I will discreetly go to the bipolar sister and ask her if she's ok. At which point, predictably, she will begin to rant at me about all her problems and in fact spend so much time doing so that the argument slowly dissipates and responses are fewer and further between.

 

That is influence, a discreet mediation, done very purposefully. Call it manipulative if you will, I have no bad intentions and achieve good results.

[Seraphim]

Ok, do what you like , lol. We are just trying to give you the benefit of double the lifetime of experience.

 

Sometimes though people have to learn the hard way and I was one of those people. You probably are too.

[bulletproof]

The rest of my life is near perfect. I am so happy - I am studying the degree I want, my partner and I are making leaps and bounds all the time and are in a good place recently, I love our Princess and our pet kitten, I have great relationships with those who I choose to maintain them with (friends, distant relatives). There is very little in my life that I could actually complain about. But yes, occasionally wish that others could experience the same sense of contentment that I do.

 

I think when my only concern is that others around me aren't as happy as I am, I am in a pretty good place.

 

I think that if you want valid advice here you are going to have to be honest and also let the defenses down. Your life is not "near perfect" according to what you've posted here about your relationship very recently.

I'm not sure I see the point of you posting for advice and then arguing with everyone when they don't tell you what you want to hear. It seems like an exercise in futility.

[HeartGoesOn]

This thread has run its course.