Monogamy. What is "normal"?

[rosephase]

"And it might be because now I'm free to explore connections with people."

 

 

I'm married and I am free to explore connections with people. And I do, all the time. I just do not have sex outside my marriage or date other men. I do not mean to be "smart" in my comments I just don't ascribe to the extremist thinking that marriage means not having freedom. I have far more freedom than I did when I was single because when I was single I felt restricted (I restricted myself) to activities which might lead to my finding a husband -all other activities were a waste of time. Sometimes freedom -or lack of freedom -is far more internal than external.

 

I feel more free in the ability to pursue and have the connections I deeply enjoy with other people (sexually and non). For a lot of people monogamy doesn't feel restricting. For a lot of people non-mongamy would feel terrible. And I know plenty of people who have tried non-mongamy and ended up feeling trapped and awful. The fact that I feel more free with the relationship structure I have worked hard to build, isn't a comment on the relationship structure you have you have chosen and worked hard for.

 

Sorry, I don't mean to come back at you but people tend to think that my relationship structure is somehow judging theirs and it isn't.

[pfbsurf]

Seems you know they call it "The lifestyle" not swinging. Bit of trivia.

 

Anyway, fantastic answer. You make the distinction between a physical connection and an emotional one. For me, in the last relationship, the emotional one was a bit more dangerous - sitting in bed talking, holding hands, going for walks - because it satisfied something that I literally never had in my life, a very close bond with a woman. I"ve had lots of flings, and a long term marriage, but not that. Its what i miss the most I think, and probably where i really let myself get drawn in.

 

I did say before that i want and hope to take everything I've learned into a relationship that really matters. Maybe this is the point. I will NEVER be ok with anything other than monogamy. Period. Finding someone who truly believes this as well, and connects with me, would be pretty cool.

[pfbsurf]

>>Well, she is very attractive, and a professional flirt. Loved and needed attention from guys. Admitted to being "boy crazy". 44 never been married, only one real LTR.

 

btw, HUGE red flag that this woman is not a good choice for a monogamous partner. She'll be 85 in the nursing home batting her eyelashes at the old men in the home with her AND the sons of the old men when they come to visit their fathers...

 

Your problem there isn't the failure of monogamy as a concept, but the difficulty of trying to jam a square peg into a round hole (i.e., expecting a total man hound to go off the scent permanently once she met you...not a realistic expectation given her history).

 

 

 

I know. But she was fun, and honestly, she doesn't really want to live this life forever. But self control and honesty are not her strong suits.

 

But I am guilty of being superficial i will admit - i am a sucker for a pretty face and an infectious laugh. I like a "challenge". I've mentioned that I am not an alpha male, i sort of fly under the radar, and again, superficial I know, have always gone for attractive women, pushing the "out of my league" envelope. So i need to be careful I know.

 

And I knew all along I wasn't going to change who she was - i just didn't expect her to lie the way she did.

[SoulTaker]

Well, she is very attractive, and a professional flirt. Loved and needed attention from guys. Admitted to being "boy crazy". 44 never been married, only one real LTR. Stayed in touch w exes and had a bunch of guy friends. I set no boundaries though

 

 

I was doing the math very early on, but came to trust her, and then became pretty attached. Once this happened, she sort of backed off. But she still wanted to have me around.

 

The connection was because of chemistry and a genuine like/love for each other when we were together. And I had told her that if it wasn't working out, I just wanted her to be honest That is where the connection fell waaaay short.

 

Yep, those "looks" will get you every time. This appears to be more of a FWB situation, which got stretched into a relationship. In this case, it wasn't a matter of red flags as much as a case where she wasn't date-able. She would have had to first clean up her situation (and mindset). You needed to establish boundaries (red flags, must-haves,..) if looking for a LTR.

 

I wouldn't lose too much sleep over this situation since there was nothing there to begin with. As the two of you have noted, it's surprising that it lasted as long as it did.

[pfbsurf]

Trust me - a half dozen therapy sessions in - I do not blame the world at large. And never said that monogamy doesn't work- only asked what is "normal".

 

And whether it is a bridge analogy or the murder analogy i heard before, the fact is that cheating is rife in our society. Being cheated on in a relationship is more like walking around in the rain without a coat on and occasionally catching a cold. You won't die from it, but the odds are if you do it enough, achoo.

 

As for my choices, once i knew that lying and cheating was in the mix - i walked. ( It was VERY difficult and sad for both of us. You may assume it was just a physical connection, but there really was something deeper. None of this is black and white. I don't hate her, and I don't blame myself .) Prior to that, it would have been hard for me to really justify leaving based on a hunch. I chose to continue to trust her, until it was very clear that I could not. Not sure how i could have handled that differently without a crystal ball.

 

 

Plenty of people get cheated on by partners that dont show any red flags by the way.

[pfbsurf]

Yep, those "looks" will get you every time. This appears to be more of a FWB situation, which got stretched into a relationship. In this case, it wasn't a matter of red flags as much as a case where she wasn't date-able. She would have had to first clean up her situation (and mindset). You needed to establish boundaries (red flags, must-haves,..) if looking for a LTR.

 

I wouldn't lose too much sleep over this situation since there was nothing there to begin with. As the two of you have noted, it's surprising that it lasted as long as it did.

 

 

 

It was more than FWB - there were very specific discussions about exclusivity - and less than a viable LTR. Look, like they say, its complicated. We were both surprised at how much we ended up liking each other. She is a self admitted commitment phobe, and I had no real experienc with a true girlfriend.

 

 

Full disclosure. And I think this is important.. Since my divorce, i have been a serial dater. One 12 month relationship - she was 19 years younger. No LTR there. a couple dozen other flings over 7 years. But I got tired of that, and met S. I will admit that I was in over my head this time around. What can I say? My excuse is that I had my kids half time and no time for a relationship. But the reality is that i never met anyone i liked as much as i liked her.

 

And, despite all apperances, she did fall for me for a while at least. She chased and I became a pretty fun bf. honeymoon phase ended and the wheels came off.

 

I'm losing sleep because I miss her. What can I say? But i'm not contacting her - despite her every other week texts..

[pfbsurf]

Boy, this is helpful. Fun and a bit painful, but it is very interesting...

[lavenderdove]

>>I know. But she was fun, and honestly, she doesn't really want to live this life forever. But self control and honesty are not her strong suits.

 

I see this as a larger issue that you can never look at people as fixer upper projects or it blows up in your face... what you see is what you get, and it is so tempting to try to hang on and hope that those things that are really negative (and a history of cheating and man chasing is as serious as the foundation collapsing in a house) and hope they go away or you can fix them. In people, you just can't. They can only change themselves, and only if they make a clear statement they feel they are wrong and want to change. I don't think your ex did and still was enjoying her world class flirt status, and enjoying juggling multiple men as a hobby. So that just can't be fixed.

 

Next time just make sure from the get-go the woman makes it clear that monogamy is her goal and she is content with one man and is not a big flirt or someone who needs a lot of male attention constantly.

[SoulTaker]

Understood. Somewhat of a gray area. Why is she contacting you (FWB, friends, get back together,...)? Why are you ignoring her? Is it a case where you need a complete break, and can't take it down to a friendship level?

[pfbsurf]

Understood. Somewhat of a gray area. Why is she contacting you (FWB, friends, get back together,...)? Why are you ignoring her? Is it a case where you need a complete break, and can't take it down to a friendship level?

 

She is contacting me because it is NC 101. I dropped her out of the blue and she is not used to getting dumped. I went full NC, and she would text at 2 AM or Sunday nights... She missed the security of having me around.

 

I'm ignoring her because that is also NC 101 She lied. She cheated. I am better than that or at least I hope so . Don't think we could be friends unfortunately.

 

Sad. I don't take this stuff lightly Maybe I should

[SoulTaker]

She is contacting me because it is NC 101. I dropped her out of the blue and she is not used to getting dumped. I went full NC, and she would text at 2 AM or Sunday nights... She missed the security of having me around.

 

I'm ignoring her because that is also NC 101 She lied. She cheated. I am better than that or at least I hope so . Don't think we could be friends unfortunately.

 

Sad. I don't take this stuff lightly Maybe I should

 

Yes, there's something about a cheater that rubs a person the wrong way. I agree with your assessment.